User talk:Nalf123

Welcome!
Hello, Nalf123, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few links to pages you might find helpful: Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place  before the question. Again, welcome! Technopat (talk) 10:56, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
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Replaceable fair use File:Instaboat Product.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Instaboat Product.jpg. I noticed the description page specifies that this media item is being used under a claim of fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails the first non-free content criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media item could be found or created that provides substantially the same information or which could be adequately covered with text alone. If you believe this media item is not replaceable, please:


 * 1) Go to the file description page and edit it to add, without deleting the original replaceable fair use template.
 * 2) On the file discussion page, write the reason why this media item is not replaceable at all.

Alternatively, you can also choose to replace this non-free media item by finding freely licensed media of the same subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or similar) media under a free license, or by creating new media yourself (for example, by taking your own photograph of the subject).

If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified how these media fully satisfy our non-free content criteria. You can find a list of description pages you have edited by clicking on [ this link]. Note that even if you follow steps 1 and 2 above, non-free media which could be replaced by freely licensed alternatives will be deleted 2 days after this notification (7 days if uploaded before 13 July 2006), per the non-free content policy. If you have any questions, please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 06:42, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use File:Portabote Product.gif
Thanks for uploading File:Portabote Product.gif. I noticed the description page specifies that this media item is being used under a claim of fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails the first non-free content criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media item could be found or created that provides substantially the same information or which could be adequately covered with text alone. If you believe this media item is not replaceable, please:


 * 1) Go to the file description page and edit it to add, without deleting the original replaceable fair use template.
 * 2) On the file discussion page, write the reason why this media item is not replaceable at all.

Alternatively, you can also choose to replace this non-free media item by finding freely licensed media of the same subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or similar) media under a free license, or by creating new media yourself (for example, by taking your own photograph of the subject).

If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified how these media fully satisfy our non-free content criteria. You can find a list of description pages you have edited by clicking on [ this link]. Note that even if you follow steps 1 and 2 above, non-free media which could be replaced by freely licensed alternatives will be deleted 2 days after this notification (7 days if uploaded before 13 July 2006), per the non-free content policy. If you have any questions, please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 06:47, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Reply
Greetings Nalf123. Thank you for your note. As far as I can remember, I have never visited the article on folding kayaks and have no idea whatsoever as to how it is structured. However, I disagree with your statement that the article page folding boat is “being edited back to one on kayaks”, as there does not seem to be any mention of the latter on this article page, except as a wikilink, and an image. Strictly speaking, of course, a kayak is a boat, but if you have a different picture fine. In fact, the image of the holding boat that was being uploaded looked really interesting and descriptive, and I had no objection at all to it, assuming, of course, that it meets all the necessary requirements regarding use of images on Wikipedia. But to return to your statement, the article is merely being edited back to a version that is less blatantly promotional. I'm sure that someone who knows about the subject can make it encyclopaedic without the blatant use of promotional content.

Likewise, again, as far as I know, I have never visited the other pages you mention as examples of pages with logos. However, it goes without saying that any logo added to an article here must adhere to the corresponding content guideline, Logos.

Which brings us to the matter of promotional content, and that is precisely the problem with the insistence, through numerous attempts by one or several editors, despite successive requests and warnings not to, on uploading what is clearly unacceptable content, both for its promotional leaning – as had already been pointed out recently by an experienced editor - and for its lack of encyclopaedic relevance.

Are you seriously telling me that a product that was “voted episode winner” on a TV programme, and of which “around 50 have been manufactured” is of encyclopaedic relevance? Obviously, everything is relevant, and if we were talking about 50 space shuttles or 50 skyscrapers, maybe, but 50 folding boats… since 2006!

As for the “the latest of the folding boat generation”, it is “expected to weigh around…” here we seem to be talking about something that is still at the prototype stage, which, if we were talking space shuttles, fine, but a folding boat?

Of course, if any of the editors who seem so keen on restoring exactly the same content after having been asked, and then warned, not to, had tried to get in touch with me, I could have explained some or all of the above and we could have reached some sort of consensus based on what is acceptable content for an encyclopaedia, as opposed to a sales brochure.

As I mentioned above, I have no idea how the other articles you mention go about addressing what is obviously a fine line regarding promotion of products, but each article has to adhere to Wikipedia guidelines, and the version I, and at least two other editors, have reverted, did not.

Regards, --Technopat (talk) 07:40, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Greetings again. In answer to your specific questions regarding the following content:


 * a) "list of folding boat manufacturers" - Wikipedia is not a directory, and unless any of the manufacturers happen to be major players on the market, as in NYSE or similar, i.e., encyclopaedically relevant themselves, it would be difficult to justify inclusion, without it seeming to be promotional, and
 * b) "advantages/disadvantages" - content on Wikipedia has to be reliably sourced, i.e., we cannot just add our expert opinion (original research) - we have to back it up using secondary/tertiary sources.


 * Regarding your future edits to the article, I'd suggest that if you doubt whether to include something, it's probably best left out. That said, the best place to get advice and/or try to reach consensus is on the article's talk page, so other users with an interest in the subject/the community can give feedback. Regards, --Technopat (talk) 11:09, 3 July 2013 (UTC)