User talk:Nardog/2022

CIR or vandal editor
Hi Nardog, the edit trail of this editor strongly reminds me of very similar edits by a notorious Korean IP editor that has been haunting us for years. We discussed about them at some time in WPLing or WPLang, and people were not quite sure whether this is subtle vandalism or just a blatant CIR problem. I wonder whether this is the first registered account by that person, or do you remember if there has been an earlier account? In the latter case, we could file an SPI to stop them, otherwise I'll just wait it out until they have reached waring level 4. –Austronesier (talk) 16:46, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Man, I forgot about this LTA! I used to keep track of the socks but I stopped about five months ago because I wasn't encountering them as much (perhaps range blocks were taking effect). (I just checked their usual ranges and only found a few from September–October.) This is the only SPI page about them I know of, but I'm not sure if filing a new case will yield anything since the previous socks are quite old ("stale" as they say) and CUs can't disclose accounts' IPs. Of course it couldn't hurt, but I bet giving them "disruptive" (as opposed to "vandalism") warnings and pointing to their lack of WP:ENGAGE has a better chance of stopping them. Nardog (talk) 08:21, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Actually, behavioral evidence is quite obvious for us, but it will be hard to explain to SPI clerks why this is a DUCK without giving a course in elementary phonetics. So, yes, I will just keep their edits on my watch and slam warnings for disruptive editing. When the final point is reached, I'll probably go straight to Fut.Perf. instead of ANI. –Austronesier (talk) 12:39, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Btw, I have just found it that Twinkle has no warning for "disruptive editing" at Level 4, so I resorted to a vandal warning. Not that it would awfully matter at this stage :) –Austronesier (talk) 20:22, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
 * SPI filed. Please chime in if you have evidence that can help the case. Nardog (talk) 04:36, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Well that was fast! Nardog (talk) 08:20, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Very fast indeed! I will remember the account of the sockmaster for future cases (hopefully not!). –Austronesier (talk) 09:41, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia Library Card
Hello Nardog, when you recommended that I get a Wikipedia Library Card I planned to apply for one, but haven't gotten the round tuits until now. To my surprise I just received a notice saying “Congratulations! You are now eligible for the Wikipedia Library.” A few steps later I became the proud owner of a Wikipedia Library Card. Is that coincidence or do you have anything to do with it? ◅ Sebastian 15:05, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
 * No, I don't have that kind of power. Apparently that notification is being "rolled out with a gradually decreasing edit count requirement", and you received it around this time because your edit count was in the 10K–50K range. Nardog (talk) 06:34, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks – who would have thought that WP:HIGHSCORE still pays off way above 1000‽ ◅ Sebastian 12:45, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

mass respell changes
This came to my attention due to your edits related to the word "Kenai" i.e.. Checking further I see you are making similar changes to hundreds of articles. I have to ask where it is you are getting the idea that any pronunciation of "minute", for example is pronounced muy-newt? These seems very odd and I think you should stop doing it and go back and undo many if not most of these changes. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:42, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
 * This change was discussed at WT:PRK, but there's been pushback from other editors as well. I'll pause the change and open an RfC. Thanks for your patience. Nardog (talk) 19:44, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
 * thanks for your reply. I took a quick look at that conversation.... I have to say I don't get it. It seems like the participants in that discussion just decided for themselves that "uy" is how "long I" sounds are pronounced. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:50, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Voiceless dental fricative
I am a bit confused by all the recent edits to Voiceless dental fricative. I'm quite ignorant on the topic, so I don't know if it needs fixing or not. Someone split English up and you changed it to Western American English. It was just changed to General American English by an anon. Is this correct/does it need to be looked at? Seems rather suspicious... Cheers Adakiko (talk) 08:55, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for noticing this, reverted. Nardog (talk) 08:59, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Stop
Stop editing every picture tells a story. 2A02:C7F:5073:F600:C128:DD3D:F87B:51A3 (talk) 06:13, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

Question
How do you edit so much?, I see you everywhere & I’m genuinely curious, & what your nationality cause I see you in a load of Irish based pages (as well as others) & was just wondering? 78.16.173.101 (talk) 23:30, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

QuickRollback
Hello!

Currently when rolling back changes, once we get the summary popup, the text behind reads "rolling back" over a "bold dotted background". Is that normal? Can we either have that or the text, not both? - Klein Muçi (talk) 17:45, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
 * How about now? Nardog (talk) 17:57, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Fixed, thank you! :) - Klein Muçi (talk) 18:00, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
 * The QuickRollback script or maybe the NavigationPopups gadget (or maybe even the FlaggedRev extension itself) does provide some peculiar behaviors I haven't been able to fully grasp. If you go to our recent changes now and check what has happened to articles such as Flutura or Apoloni, you'll see that apparently I have had to revert myself and there are still other edits waiting for review on it.
 * I do my reviews through Special:PendingChanges. I'll see what the change is according to the preview I get (by NavigationPopups) by hovering over the diff link and either revert it with a summary or accept it. If I revert it, some time later I'll again see that article listed in there with the same diff being shown when hovering over and I'll revert it again. This time, if I check Special:RecentChanges, I'll see that actually the first time when I reverted it I've actually approved it somehow and only now I reverted it by reverting myself... Somehow... And yet again, there may be still edits waiting to be reviewed (like the one I've talked about in the beginning) which most likely will still show the same diff link all the time when viewed through NavPop and I'll keep reverting myself until finally they won't show anymore in the pending changes list. I have no idea what these peculiar cycles are and what causes them. - Klein Muçi (talk) 22:44, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
 * You may check my contributions if you come too late for the S:RecentChanges. If you search (Ctrl+F) in those for Flutura you'll see that I've done two rollbacks which both are strange. The second time I've reverted myself (?!) and the first time I've reverted IAB (?) even though my intention was only to remove the vandalism some IP had done in it. At least, that was what was shown to me when hovering on the review link in S:PendingChanges. - Klein Muçi (talk) 23:00, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
 * From what I've gathered, editing on top an unaccepted revision doesn't automatically make your edit accepted even if you're autoreviewed. And rollback only reverts all consecutive edits by the last editor, so if the revision immediately before them is not accepted, your new revision after the rollback won't be automatically accepted either. Nardog (talk) 00:58, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Soo... Is it a problem related to the extension itself or is it a minor flaw of the way QuickRollback is designed? I wonder if there would be any changes if the normal way was used instead on these cases. - Klein Muçi (talk) 01:02, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
 * It is the normal way, the same as on this wiki. Rollback always only reverts to the revision right before the last consecutive edits by the same user, not to the last accepted revision. Nardog (talk) 01:05, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I see... Even more details I need to worry about when reviewing. :( Thank you for the explanations! - Klein Muçi (talk) 01:09, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Now that they seemed bug-free, I went on and gadgetified the scripts for our project to be able to provide a translated interface.


 * MediaWiki:Gadget-QuickAccept.js;
 * MediaWiki:Gadget-RollBack.js;
 * MediaWiki:MediaWiki:Gadget-QuickScriptsButtonize.css

Can you take a quick look and make sure I haven't ruined anything on the process?

One problem that I noticed is that the tooltip for rollback acts strange in SqWiki when you're in S:RecentChanges. Can you activate the gadget in our project and hover over in a rollback button in that page and see what I mean?

I also plan to try utilizing the tag again, maybe it works now that it is a gadget. Do I need to change anything to have the tag as "QuickRollback"?

Finally, can you take a look at our gadgets' definition page and see if everything is all right in regard to the said 2 scripts? They're located in the bottom of the list. - Klein Muçi (talk) 12:41, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I can't "see" what you mean because I don't have the rollback right on sqwiki, but naturally the interface-default rollback links are going to use the interface-default tooltip, if that's what you're referring to. I doubt the tag is going to work (and it being a gadget shouldn't make any difference, for a gadget is just a script loaded automatically), but as I said, create a tag (presumably at sq:Speciale:Tags) and add e.g.  to the top of QuickRollback.js. The definitions should be   I shouldn't even be able to enable QuickRollback, which I'd have no use for. I'm surprised you didn't make the Buttonize CSS a separate gadget. Again, my intention was different, but it is your choice. Also you probably have to credit me as the author as a CC-BY-SA requirement. Add   to top of each script. Nardog (talk) 19:57, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Credit given. (CSS of course has another way for commenting.) Definitions changed. (I don't quite understand why we should add those specific dependencies. Care to explain?) Who actually has rollback rights by default? Admins only? How do I set up the CSS script as a separate gadget exactly?
 * When I hover over the tick button, I get "Accept this change" (in Albanian). When I hover over the rollback button, instead of getting "Rollback this change", I get the page preview similar to what I get when I use NavPopup on any link. The same popup. It must be malfunctioning with it somehow. - Klein Muçi (talk) 02:19, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
 * If dependencies are declared in the gadget definition, they are loaded at the same time as the gadget script as opposed to when the script runs, which is faster and more efficient. Yes, admins only. See sq:Speciale:ListGroupRights. Enwiki has the rollbacker user group, which I assume you have to ask devs for if you want it on sqwiki. Something like . (I find "QuickScriptsButtonize" a bit misleading by the way, as it also buttonize the default rollback links. But it also affects QuickAccept, so the   parameter should be set to   rather than , which only admins have. I suggest the label be something to the effect of "Make rollback and QuickAccept links appear like buttons".)
 * Oh, so you're talking about how Navigaiton popups handles rollback links? But that's just how Navigaiton popups works by default, isn't it? If you think it shouldn't, that's Navigaiton popups's problem, not QuickRollback's. QuickRollback doesn't do anything on RecentChanges until a rollback link is clicked. Nardog (talk) 02:44, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Also, what happens when you're lacking those user rights and you're looking at the gadgets' list? You can't tick those specific gadgets? - Klein Muçi (talk) 02:28, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
 * They just don't appear in the list. Nardog (talk) 02:44, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
 * How about ButtonizeReview.css? If rollback is admin only, what can reviewers do practically? Only accept changes?
 * No, I'm talking about this. It doesn't work as intended. When I hover over the rollback button, I don't get that tooltip. Instead I get a preview of the page where the change has happened, similar to what I get if I hover over the title of the page. NavigationPopups hijacks that tooltip. This didn't happen when I was using it as a script. When I hovered over the rollback button, I would get the said tooltip. This also doesn't happen with the accept button. When I hover over it, I get this. - Klein Muçi (talk) 03:08, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Sure, whatever you want it to be named. They can of course revert edits and restore old revisions as anyone can. The only thing the rollback right gives you is the ability to restore the penultimate contributor's version of a page with one click, designed for combating clear-cut vandals.
 * Try disabling QuickRollback with Navigation popups enabled, and hover over rollback links on RecentChanges. I'm sure you get the same behavior. Now disable Navigation popups too and hover over them. You get the interface-default tooltip. This does not change even if you enable QuickRollback. I never intended the  message to replace the default one. It's only used when the script adds its own buttons. Nardog (talk) 03:27, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh... I must not had that while using the script then. So it's NavPop's fault. Can we make  (or a new one) override the interface-default one with the interface-default one? Would that override NavPop's behavior and somehow ensure that we'd always get the interface-default tooltip? "Hardcode" it. - Klein Muçi (talk) 03:38, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Again, QuickRollback doesn't do anything to rollback links rendered by the MW interface and I don't plan to change that. More features in the script means more opportunities for it to break and more things to look out for, and I don't want them. Nardog (talk) 03:46, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

I set up the CSS script as a gadget on its own. I deactivated it. I still get the rollback icon instead of the rollback link. What's going wrong? Should I just wait a bit? - Klein Muçi (talk) 04:05, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
 * You're still loading my CSS in your common.js. Nardog (talk) 06:45, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Hah! Now it works as intended. Well, I guess that will be all. At least, for now. Thank you! :) - Klein Muçi (talk) 11:47, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Edit after IP vandalism
You edited Voiced velar tap three minutes after it was vandalized by User:89.236.252.20. Your edit was not a simple revert. I restored the version before 89.236.252.20's edits because I don't understand the subject of the article well enough to tell if you were combining a vandalism revert with a correction, or what was going on. Please check the article. I determined the IP edis were based on the use of the word "impossible" combined with using the same word in obviously absurd edits by 89.236.252.20 to Time formatting and storage bugs. Jc3s5h (talk) 10:41, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
 * That edit was a legitimate correction of an error and even the one that tagged the article for deletion wasn't "vandalism", just someone new to the project. Whether "a velar tap" is possible depends on how one defines a tap. The official IPA chart thinks it isn't. Nardog (talk) 10:48, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you
Thank you for your edit in the Village Pump. This post was in fact not meant to be posted twice on the English Village Pump. I also agree with you on the misleading title of the message you removed. Just to give a little background: The English text I accidentally posted here is the fallback text for all wikis that didn't get a translated message, and I wanted to keep it as simple as possible for non-native speakers. I agree that it wasn't perfect, though. -- Wishing you a good weekend, — Preceding unsigned comment added by Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (talk • contribs) 11:41, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your kind note. The heading gave me the impression that we could finally store variables in ordinary templates so we wouldn't have to write the same conditionals over and over or something like that, hence my disappointment and response, which in hindsight was perhaps too curt. Sorry about that. :p Nardog (talk) 11:58, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @Nardog: No worries, thanks for your kind reply. If your request is somehow related to references (which it is probably not), you might want to consider adding it to the talk page of this project: WMDE_Technical_Wishes/Reusing_references
 * That's a new project we'll be starting soon. -- Best, Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (talk) 12:02, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Pronunciations on Forvo
Not all pronunciations of place names on Forvo are correct. Many guys who pronounce place names are not local residents, they can only pronounce the pronunciations they guess. For example, Tardinghen, the correct pronunciation is [taʁdɛ̃ɡɑ̃].--Bigbullfrog1996（𓆏） 23:11, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads-up. I never take Forvo or any other user-generated site at face value, but in this case I had corrected French transcriptions added by the same user, so I took a shortcut with Forvo. The French pronunciation of Germanic place names seems to vary a lot (in terms of conformity to French orthography), so it would be no surprise if this one varied too. Nardog (talk) 08:25, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

Pronunciation
Could you explain the difference between ɜːr and ʌr? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cg120 (talk • contribs) 04:21, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * See the key, particularly note 31. /ʌr/, like all other combinations of a lax vowel (/ɒ æ ɛ ɪ ʊ/) + /r/, is always followed by a vowel. Nardog (talk) 16:16, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Dude, all note 31 says is that those vowels aren't distinguished. Cg120 (talk) 18:18, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Not distinguished in dialects with the hurry–furry merger. Those who retain the distinction do not (and cannot) pronounce Murtaugh with the same sound as hurry. The note explains why /ʌr/ and /ɜːr/ are the same to you, but not to some others, and hence helps you tell which diaphoneme you need to use. Nardog (talk) 18:48, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Rope and the one-shot
Hi. You reverted my change on the one-shot film page but I think I am right. In the talk I posted the time of the unmasked cuts. Let me know if you agree and if I can, once again, remove rope from that list. --PedroPistolas (talk) 11:18, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Malaysian language
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Malaysian language that may be of interest to you. CMD (talk) 11:15, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Featured picture scheduled for POTD
Hi Nardog,

This is to let you know that File:IPA-euler-manners-features.svg, a featured picture you uploaded, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for September 17, 2022. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2022-09-17. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.9% of all FPs 17:53, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Archiving notice
Hey! During your moving of Talk:The PTA Disbands, you forgot to update the archive location. This is just a reminder - don't worry, I've fixed it. Thanks! Aidan9382 (talk) 06:38, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Your undo
Why? 217.117.125.83 (talk) 12:19, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Because is not valid HTML. Nardog (talk) 12:21, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Paused
Paused here means that for the moment of the pause it is not accredited. It does not belong in the accredited template. I'm now sure what you think pause means - that it has not effect, and accreditation continues? That's obviously not the case. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Message_to_Man&diff=next&oldid=1093193630 --2603:7000:2143:8500:206D:FB72:4E81:E447 (talk) 03:42, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
 * It's just not a good reason to remove it from the navbox. Created a "Formerly accredited" section. Nardog (talk) 06:59, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks. That's reasonable. My concern was that "accredited" was in the title of the navbox.--2603:7000:2143:8500:B485:FF88:BA42:CAA0 (talk) 15:22, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Autopatrolled granted
Hi Nardog, I just wanted to let you know that I have [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=rights&page=User%3ANardog added] the "autopatrolled" permission to your account, as you have created numerous, valid articles. This feature will have no effect on your editing, and is simply intended to reduce the workload on new page patrollers. For more information on the autopatrolled right, see Autopatrolled. However, you should consider adding relevant wikiproject talk-page templates, stub-tags and categories to new articles that you create if you aren't already in the habit of doing so, since your articles will no longer be systematically checked by other editors (User:Evad37/rater and User:SD0001/StubSorter.js are useful scripts which can help). Feel free to leave me a message if you have any questions. Happy editing! –&#8239;Joe (talk) 08:11, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

"Wikipedia:American Heritage Dictionary representation" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Wikipedia:American Heritage Dictionary representation and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 June 19 until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Liz Read! Talk! 13:45, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started
Hello, Nardog

Thank you for creating The Passengers of the Night.

User:LunaEatsTuna, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with. Please remember to sign your reply with ~.

(Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

 𓃦 LunaEatsTuna  (💬) 15:14, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

New page reviewer granted
Hi Nardog. Your account has been added to the " " user group. Please check back at WP:PERM in case your user right is time limited or probationary. This user group allows you to review new pages through the Curation system and mark them as patrolled, tag them for maintenance issues, or nominate them for deletion. The list of articles awaiting review is located at the New Pages Feed. New page reviewing is vital to maintaining the integrity of the encyclopedia. If you have not already done so, you must read the tutorial at New Pages Review, the linked guides and essays, and fully understand the deletion policy. If you need any help or want to discuss the process, you are welcome to use the new page reviewer talk page. In addition, please remember: The reviewer right does not change your status or how you can edit articles. If you no longer want this user right, you also may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. In cases of abuse or persistent inaccuracy of reviewing, or long-term inactivity, the right may be withdrawn at administrator discretion. –&#8239;Joe (talk) 14:09, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Be nice to new editors. They are usually not aware that they are doing anything wrong. Do make use of the message feature when tagging  pages for  maintenance so  that  they are aware.
 * You will frequently be asked by users to explain why their page is being deleted. Please be formal and polite in your approach to them – even if they are not.
 * If you are not sure what to do with a page, don't review it – just leave it for another reviewer.
 * Accuracy is more important than speed. Take your time to patrol each page. Use the message feature to communicate with article creators and offer advice as much as possible.

Better diff pages
Hello, Nardog! You've helped me a couple of times in the past with my technical requests and I was thinking that you could also help me in this one. Normally I would just ask at WP:US/R but the problem is that I'm not really sure what to ask for and that's where I was thinking you can be of help more: Help me better formalize my request.

The problem that I'm trying to solve is this: Every once in a while I collaborate with editor Trappist the Monk to update the CS1|2 module for my homewiki. Such an update is usually done by copy-pasting the English version unto the Albanian version and looking at the diff page. The parts where the diff is symmetrical usually mean that those parts contain no changes in code but only changes in translation. These are the parts which you need to ignore and are usually considered just noise because you want to preserve the Albanian translation. All the other non-symmetrical parts mean there are code changes for example, missing code blocks, parts that have been rewritten, etc. What I'm trying to achieve is to have a way to ignore the aforementioned "noise", all the symmetrical parts, and only focus on non-symmetrical changes on the diff page. This would help basically all the wikis that rely on the same module for their citations as I strongly believe the procedure to be more or less the same as what I described. Trappist suggested activating wikEdDiff and it was sort of close to what I was striving for but at the same time it sort of worked on the reverse of what I was hoping for. Symmetrical changes were grouped together on the same line and this made them easier to see while everything else was a bit harder to navigate for my eyes, maybe because I'm not used to the arrows it makes use for. So at this point I'm kinda stuck... - Klein Muçi (talk) 12:02, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I can't quite discern what you're after. What do you mean to ignore the noise other than to, you know, ignore it? An example of a diff with which you have the problem and an example of what you want to see instead would help. Nardog (talk) 12:19, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes. Take a look at this diff. Scroll slowly from the top all the way down. In the beginning, on the right, you'll see a block of code that doesn't exist on the left. Then you'll get a large symmetrical part of code on which the only changes are words more or less, not code per se. Eventually you'll reach to portions of code that start to get non-symmetrical again. And then you'll get symmetrical changes again and the cycle repeats until you reach the bottom.
 * What I - and I suppose most non-EnWiki CS1|2 maintainers do - is to keep that diff only as a preview (not saved, although I saved it in this case to show it to you) and then open in another tab the module code and start focusing only on the non-symmetrical parts of the diff. Do some work, save, create another diff preview, open a new tab and work some more, save again, create another diff preview... After some iterations you'll get left only with symmetrical changes more or less and only then focus on them individually to see if you need to do any changes on them (most of the time you don't) and finally save and call the update completed.
 * What I'd want to have is maybe a button the press of which would grey out/hide/something else that makes it easier to ignore them all the symmetrical parts of the code, allowing me to focus on the non-symmetrical changes until I've finished working with them.
 * Is it any clearer now? The kind of confusion you felt is exactly why I was reluctant to go anywhere else for help because I too have it difficult to express what I have in mind about this. I also assume most EnWiki technical editors would rarely have encountered this situation because they don't need to do updates based on other wikis code so that would make it even harder to explain it. - Klein Muçi (talk) 12:48, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Hmm, maybe you can try this. What it does is add the class  to the  elements of what you call "symmetrical changes" every time you open a diff, and add a portlet link to the Tools section, clicking of which toggles the class   on, so that you can customize what you want the "symmetrical changes" to look like in your own CSS. For example,   if you want to completely hide them;   if you want to squash them;   if you want to make them "fade out".
 * I'm not sure if one would really want to obscure all of what you call symmetrical changes though. Consider the line 892 (left) / 954 (right) in your example. That would count as symmetrical, although it's a crucial change of code. There's no viable (i.e. not ad hoc) way for a script to detect stuff like that. Nardog (talk) 13:52, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Wow! I'm literally amazed but what you just did. I know it's just code but I've suffered for years from this problem and to have it solved out with just 1 single request and a few lines of code feels like magic... I didn't even need to go to WP:US/R. Thanks a lot!
 * I am aware of the effect you mention. There are many occasions where a symmetrical change would actually be meaningful. Most of the times it's an English line being totally rewritten with a different meaning and given that it is already translated in now an outdated version of it it would count as a symmetrical change and not show. But I always check the code line per line for those occasions in the end. This is only to facilitate the importing of other easier-to-see/bigger changes.
 * Just 1 improvement (?) idea: Can the toggle be actually made into a small floating-on-screen-like button? That way I can toggle and untoggle continuously even while scrolling down, not needing to scroll to the Tool sections each time. - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:49, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Also, can the hiding/squashing/fading out effect encompass even the unchanged lines that accompany hidden/squashed/faded out lines before and after them? - Klein Muçi (talk) 16:03, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
 * To make the link float (change  to   if you want it on the other side):
 * Now it adds the class  to symmetrical-adjacent context lines. So e.g.   Beware that this could affect context lines adjacent to non-symmetrical changes (e.g. line 532/560). Nardog (talk) 06:42, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you! That's all I needed. :) - Klein Muçi (talk) 10:03, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

I was experimenting around with your script just out of curiosity now and I found out that apparently it doesn't work in other namespaces beside the modules' one. Is that intended? At least it didn't work on the mainspace's and templates' diffs. It hardly creates a problem for me, not to say any, because so far I've only wanted that function just for modules, most specifically for that 1 module, but I was just curious. - Klein Muçi (talk) 01:26, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
 * No, the script should run on those pages. Please provide links. Nardog (talk) 05:23, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Retried it with this edit. Apparently what happens is that it does work with the diff after it is saved. It doesn't work with the preview function. But with modules it works in preview. If you remember above, I said that the way I use it is to have it on preview mode on a tab and open another working tab simultaneously. I can't really provide a link for previews as you can imagine but you can try it yourself on that page. Change some parameter values on it and preview your changes without saving them. - Klein Muçi (talk) 09:37, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh, that's because you're using the 2017 editor, which is a pain in the butt to implement anything with. The script should now support it, but you have to add  to the CSS for   for the link to be clickable. Nardog (talk) 12:05, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I just did but I don't see the link at all. Maybe I've done it wrongly? :/ - Klein Muçi (talk) 14:57, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Have you previewed a diff with symmetrical changes? Nardog (talk) 21:30, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I've tried a lot of variations. :/ The preview I talk about is basically a popup. You do the changes, press on Publish and when you get the option to input the summary you press the preview button. There you get a diff page as a popup with a big blue button on the top right corner to publish the changes. Are we talking about the same thing? - Klein Muçi (talk) 21:36, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
 * We are. Don't you see "Toggle symmetrical changes" at the bottom right of the page? Nardog (talk) 21:56, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry but I don't. :/ Can you try doing a change whatever in my homewiki where you are sure the toggle link appears, preview and make sure it does, not save it and tell me to do the same thing? - Klein Muçi (talk) 22:02, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
 * If you replace the CSS  with , do you see the link show up in the Tools section when you preview a diff? Nardog (talk) 23:55, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
 * If I did it right then, sadly, again no. - Klein Muçi (talk) 00:21, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

Do you see the message "The link to toggle symmetrical changes has been added" pop up when you preview a diff with symmetrical changes? Nardog (talk) 13:29, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * No. Everything is as it was. Maybe some other script or gadget is interfering? - Klein Muçi (talk) 14:33, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * If it still doesn't work, yeah, interference is likely at this point. Nardog (talk) 14:47, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Strangely enough, I just removed every other JS script and disabled ALL gadgets and still get nothing. :( - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:23, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * You still get the popup when viewing a diff or editing a module though, right? Nardog (talk) 15:28, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is correct. - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:38, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * How about now? Nardog (talk) 16:01, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry but still no. :/ - Klein Muçi (talk) 16:29, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Can you show me a screenshot of the preview of a diff with symmetrical changes? Imgur would do. Nardog (talk) 16:45, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * This is me previewing a diff in the main page itself, all JS scripts and gadgets disabled beside the one we're talking and two CSS scripts that serve for error detection in CS1|2. - Klein Muçi (talk) 16:55, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I think I've identified the problem. Try again (I've removed the popup, so look for the link under Tools). Nardog (talk) 17:16, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes! It now works on all namespaces and I can guarantee that no interference was coming from any of the scripts or gadgets. There are only some minor bugs now: Sometimes it takes some tries to get the toggle link under Tools. Maybe that's because I didn't change enough lines the first tries to trigger it? After it is triggered, it stays there even while editing (not previewing anything) and the most important part, as you said, it only appears at the tools' section on the sidebar which makes it a bit hard to utilize it. The whole "make-it-float" thing we discussed in the beginning. - Klein Muçi (talk) 18:18, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Is it more stable now? You can restore the floating CSS, but keep the z-index part. I told you to replace it with  only because I thought the floating link might have simply been hidden for some reason. The link staying is as intended. The script adding the link only after detecting a diff with symmetrical changes is only so that it doesn't show a link that does nothing. Nardog (talk) 01:51, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, now it's very reliable, it works every time. It's also floatable. The only "problem" is that once you preview the changes once the link stays forever on even while editing, be that fixed in the tools or floating at the bottom of the page. That's hardly a problem but I thought I'd tell you anyway, maybe you want to be aware of it. - Klein Muçi (talk) 02:09, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I just said that's the intended behavior. It's easy to detect a diff showing up, but it's not as easy to detect a diff being hidden. Nardog (talk) 02:11, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

DYK for Death of Wishma Sandamali
Gatoclass (talk) 09:51, 15 July 2022 (UTC) 12:03, 18 July 2022 (UTC) theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 05:22, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Strangers (upcoming film) moved to draftspace
An article you recently created, Strangers (upcoming film), is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of " " before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. BOVINEBOY 2008 16:11, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Nomination of Strangers (upcoming film) for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Strangers (upcoming film) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Strangers (upcoming film) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished. BOVINEBOY 2008 20:40, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

A script for listing users in AWB whitelist
Hi. as some administrators are not familiar with JSON syntax, I developed a script on Persian Wikipedia for easily adding users to AWB whitelist (new JSON file). You can find the original code at w:fa:MediaWiki:Gadget-AddNewUserToJSON.js (activated as a default gadget for administrators).

There is another whitelist on fawiki for a tool we use to translate articles from English Wikipedia and some of this code is related to that whitelist. I modified the code for English Wikipedia and stored the final code in User:Jeeputer/addOrRemoveUsersFromJson.js. can you please review the code or introduce me to the appropriate page for this application?

I think it also can be a default gadget for administrators on English Wikipedia. Thank you. Jeeputer (talk) 19:20, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what you want me to look at, as I'm not an admin so I'd have no use for it, but one thing that immediately jumped out at me is that it's loading the dependencies on every page. The early return should run before loading the dependencies. If you want to solicit more input I suggest you go to WP:VPT. Nardog (talk) 17:58, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

IPAInput
Hi there, I'm interested in your IPAInput tool. Does it only work with Wikimedia wikis or is it possible get it running on non-Wikimedia wikis without having to drastically alter the source code? A diehard editor (talk | edits) 15:38, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I assume it'll work given it uses mediawiki.ForeignApi when not on enwp to fetch a key, but I haven't tried it and I have no intention of making sure it does (it's mainly meant to be used on this wiki, I made it work on other WMF wikis just as a bonus). Also note it assumes the wiki the script is running on has similar IPA(c)-xx templates. Nardog (talk) 02:58, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I added  to my local wiki's MediaWiki:Common.js. I've been having trouble getting it to work with my VisualEditor extension, so I disabled it there.
 * Now, I'm dealing with CORS errors.
 * Cross-Origin Request Blocked: The Same Origin Policy disallows reading the remote resource at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=parse&format=json&origin=REDACTED&page=Help%3AIPA%2FEnglish&prop=text&redirects=1&wrapoutputclass=&disablelimitreport=1&disableeditsection=1&disablestylededuplication=1&disabletoc=1&formatversion=2. (Reason: CORS header ‘Access-Control-Allow-Origin’ missing). Status code: 403.
 * I've redacted the "origin" parameter as it's a private wiki (for my own use).
 * I'll just ask for help in the MediaWiki Discord server. A diehard editor (talk | edits) 03:55, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
 * P.S. Still doesn't work. A diehard editor (talk | edits) 05:29, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
 * P.P.S. I finally got IPAInput to work for English. I simply mirrored the script onto my local wiki and mirrored Help:IPA/English and modified the source code to use my wiki's local version, instead of loading the version from Wikipedia. A diehard editor (talk | edits) 15:23, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

IPA attempt regarding Radia Perlman
Hi there again!

Over the past few days I have been learning IPA (mostly by reading Help:IPA/English.) I finally felt confident enough to be bold by adding IPA to the Radia Perlman article. If you wish, you might want to check out the page and confirm that it is accurate.

Pronunciation source: Perlman's own voice in this YouTube video at the 0:38 mark.

I decided to inform you of this attempt as your user page has a lot of IPA-related stuff to it and you responded when I added the needs IPA tag to Damhnait Doyle and Emmanuelle Charpentier.

Thanks for reading! A diehard editor (talk | edits) 16:09, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
 * sounds correct. I'm glad you're learning the IPA, feel free to ask me again if you're unsure about a transcription. Nardog (talk) 02:43, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Understood. Thanks! A diehard editor (talk | edits) 03:13, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Your edit to Template:Cite Box Office Mojo
This template seems to be protected, so I cannot edit it myself, but this edit of yours is incorrect, the title parameter should be italicized in this case, given that it is to be completed with the title of the film, not the title of the website or page. For example, for Titanic, the title would be filled Titanic, not Titanic (1997). Hence, the italics are needed as every instance of the title parameter would be italicized. —El Millo (talk) 19:29, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I disagree obviously, but reverted per WP:TPEBOLD. Nardog (talk) 01:59, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Why do you disagree? The template is specifically for films and TV, nothing other than that will ever be in the title parameter. Thanks anyway. —El Millo (talk) 02:23, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

QuickRollback script
Hello Nardog! I wanted to ask you something.

As you may remember, at SqWiki we utilize your script as a gadget. I was using it in the contributions of an IP to rollback some vandalisms lately and the behavior looked kinda strange. I got a rollback link in words which when clicked asked for a confirmation which when given, reloaded the page. I don't remember you script reloading pages or even asking for inline confirmation. Is this something I have missed when I asked for the different spaces when I hoped for your script to be active? Or maybe something has changed lately in that area and this has made your script malfunction? Or... Maybe it was always like this? I'm kinda confused and given the function's nature we're talking about (rollbacking someone else's contributions) is hard for me to do experiments with it. I thought maybe you can help clear out some of that confusion. - Klein Muçi (talk) 13:08, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Sounds like you've accidentally enabled "Show a confirmation prompt when clicking on a rollback link" in Preferences -> Appearance, in which case QuickRollback will not run on contributions. Nardog (talk) 14:36, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes. I had that enabled. I disabled it now. Hopefully this fixes it (have to wait until I have something to rollback from an IP to test it out). Thank you for the help! :)) — Klein Muçi (talk) 16:43, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Just had the chance to test it out. It is indeed fixed now. Thank you one more time! — Klein Muçi (talk) 17:36, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Fix for IPAInput's refusal to load
I've been experiencing problems with IPAInput lately; so I edited my wiki's local version of the script to remove the following code:

And I simply put the  in the global scope and had it execute, and somehow it always works. You might want to investigate this deeper. A diehard editor (talk &#124; edits) 15:01, 9 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Which editor are you using? Nardog (talk) 15:20, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The default MediaWiki interface in Firefox. A diehard editor (talk &#124; edits) 15:40, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm asking if it's the 2010 editor, the 2017 editor, or VisualEditor, all of which are part of the default MediaWiki interface. See Editor. Nardog (talk) 15:49, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah. In that case, it's VisualEditor (source mode). A diehard editor (talk &#124; edits) 15:59, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

IPA for Technoblade
Hi there, I've added (commented out) IPA to the Technoblade article. The transcription is. I'm unsure about where to put the intonation stress marks ( and ), so I decided to ask you here. A diehard editor (talk &#124; edits) 15:46, 9 September 2022 (UTC)


 * That's correct (the prevailing convention on this site is not to include secondary stress after primary stress within a word, unlike many American dictionaries), but Technoblade seems so straightforward I'm not so sure if a transcription is needed in consideration of WP:LEADPRON. Nardog (talk) 15:53, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
 * We could get consensus at on whether to add the pronunciation. And even then, I crafted that IPA by just combining the IPA at techno and blade. A diehard editor (talk &#124; edits) 15:58, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Edit warrior
Edit warrior of wrong point reported the case Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. Ciao Staiolone (talk) 07:40, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Dear user, I put just correct names at two Italian towns! I improved this web encyclopedia. I made various articles regarding Italian automotive industry. Ciao--Staiolone (talk) 08:14, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

"Unsourced and impossible"
I've noticed you deleted some IPA-style pronunciations from biology articles with the summary "unsourced and impossible". (e.g. Maip, Wellnhopterus, Gigantspinosaurus, Carcharodon). I understand the "unsourced" part, but what do you mean by "impossible"? 49.144.196.176 (talk) 14:10, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
 * All polysyllabic words have one syllable with primary stress. /ə/ doesn't occur before a vowel inside the same word (Kafkaesque is the only exception I can think of but it's a recent coinage and there's a morphological boundary). Nardog (talk) 14:30, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

INDENTGAP
Since the stupid December, 2019 encryption protocol upgrade, I've been struggling to access Wikipedia from home at all, and can only do so indirectly using a non-fully-Unicode-compliant tool, so it's quite unlikely that I'll always be able to insert the exact number of blank lines that would suit your finicky preferences. AnonMoos (talk) 23:04, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
 * That exact number is zero, as long as your comment starts with  or , and I'm at a loss as to how such a tool affects your ability to stop inserting blank lines. And WP:INDENTGAP is an accessibility guideline, not my preference. Nardog (talk) 23:15, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Re: recent IPA additions
Hello! I noticed you edited my recent additions of Template:IPA to Peter Stuyvesant and Erich von Drygalski. Could you explain why my additions were incorrect and how I could improve my IPA additions in the future? -insert valid name here- (talk) 23:14, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the inquiry! For major European languages like Dutch and German as in these cases, the surest way is to consult Duden Das Aussprachewörterbuch or Deutsches Aussprachewörterbuch (and conform their transcription to our key). You can also search with  etc. to see how other articles transcribe the language, though inevitably not all of them are guaranteed to be correct. And comparing transcriptions on Wikipedia and in dictionaries to how they say them on Forvo, YouTube, etc. should improve your sense of how to transcribe and how to judge whether a transcription is correct. My user page lists sources on pronunciation I've found useful. Hope this helps. Nardog (talk) 04:13, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply! -insert valid name here- (talk) 14:37, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Your edit on "Talk:English words without vowels"
Your edit on "Talk:English words without vowels" may have caused you to feel smug, but it was semi-dumb. Putting a paragraph break between one's comment and user signature is surely not the best Wikipedia talk-page style, and I delete such blank lines when I happen to come across them and it's convenient for me to do so. Wikipedia users are allowed to edit the comments of other Wikipedia users with respect to minor technical formatting issues (indentation level, etc). You've been editing my comments with respect to what you perceive as minor technical formatting issues, so I'm not sure why you seek to deny to me the same privilege which you allow to yourself... AnonMoos (talk) 21:33, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Like I said, WP:INDENTGAP is an accessibility guideline. If you think I'm asking you to follow it "to feel smug", I don't know what to tell you. What you did here made the signature to appear in the previous paragraph, while some users (including one admin) do prefer to put their signatures in their own paragraphs. While adherence to INDENTGAP is explicitly recommended in Talk page guidelines (WP:TALKGAP) and is in the list of things you're allowed to do and edit other people's comments, I don't see moving signatures as one of them. Nardog (talk) 09:20, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm using a purely textual browser to browse and edit Wikipedia from home, so I probably know a whole lot more about accessibility issues from personal experience than you do. Leaving a blank line between talk page comments indented at the same level makes things MORE accessible in the text-mode browser I use (the absence of such blank lines means that comments by different users display in a single amalgamated and undifferentiated block, which can be confusing).  Maybe you should focus on actually improving Wikipedia, rather than obsessing over inessential issues such as the exact number of blank lines on talk pages... AnonMoos (talk) 21:22, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

The So-called Transantlantic accent
I read the article which deals with this accent, and, accordingly, I didn't understand whether this accent was chiefly British or American. Listening to Katherine Hepburn convinced me that this accent was predominantly British, to say nothing of Billie Burke. I'm a novice in phonetics, so could you help me with answering this question? Роман Сергеевич Сидоров (talk) 07:45, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

QuickAccept/Rollback scripts - Thanking
Hello, Nardog!Some time ago you helped the SqWiki community set up the aforementioned scripts-now-turned-gadgets and for me they've become the main way I patrol recent changes. I was wondering if we could have a similar functionality in regard to thanking people (QuickThank?) for their specific edits from the recent changes page as well? Something like a heart appearing beside edits, the click of which thanks the user who made said edit for, well, that edit. Does that make sense? I mention Special:RecentChanges because that's what I mostly use myself but ideally such a thank function would appear in other places where you can see lists of edits and thank people for those edits (similar to how QuickAccept/Rollback work). — Klein Muçi (talk) 12:40, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
 * User:Nardog/QuickThank.js. Since the Thanks extension already comes with a script-enhanced confirmation button, it doesn't reinvent the wheel and uses that instead. User:Nardog/ButtonizeRollback.css‎ has also been updated to support QuickThank. It currently runs on RecentChanges, Watchlist and Contributions, but it'd help if you were more specific than "other places where you can see lists of edits". Nardog (talk) 15:48, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Is this what I have to put at our gadgets def page to turn it into a gadget: ?And yes, I was thinking of being more specific but I remembered the last time that I had to come back here multiple times in a row for "one last page" and that's why I put it like that. — Klein Muçi (talk) 02:20, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I put what I suggested and it appears to be working nicely. We have forgotten to make it run on pages' histories though. Also in the special log pages, if I'm not wrong. (Special:Log?type=...) Speaking of this maybe even the other 2 Quick-siblings should be activated there. — Klein Muçi (talk) 02:30, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 * You don't need  but my gosh, isn't it too early to make it a gadget? We haven't even pinned down what it should do. Page history and logs already come with thank buttons. I decided against making it run on PendingChanges btw, because the diffs aren't always of one edit and it complicates things considerably. Nardog (talk) 03:01, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh, page history pages do have thank "buttons" (they're links actually) but they're not available for bots. I had happened to stumble only on bot edits when checking them some minutes ago. I agree for PendingChanges. Maybe we shouldn't make it work on bot contribution pages then?... isn't it too early to make it a gadget? Could be. I tested it out as a user script, didn't find any flaws (I was surprised by the confirmation question but then I thought it was a good thing because it could save you from missclicks) and I thought that it wouldn't need any further testing because the "overall logic" was already tested with the other 2 QuickScripts. I couldn't even think of further tests to be honest. :/ — Klein Muçi (talk) 03:22, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't know how to tell whether the contributor is a bot aside from asking the server every single time, and that seemed overkill. You can undo your rollback and you can unaccept a change, but you can't unthank someone, hence the confirmation.  for ButtonizeReview needs to be removed if QuickThank is a gadget. Nardog (talk) 03:41, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I understand. Done. Thank you one more time! :)) — Klein Muçi (talk) 03:48, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

THREAD
The style of threading seen in your change regularly draws complaints from people who find it more difficult to read the page when a series of separate comments all begin with exactly the same number of colons. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 22:45, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 * And what if someone had something to say to Matma Rex but not to you? Where are they supposed to insert their comment, and how many colons? Most people aren't going to retroactively outdent your comment, and this habit of mindlessly appending comments too often leads to unwieldy threads. Just reply to the comment you're replying to. Nardog (talk) 22:59, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I find that no matter which approach you choose, there is a chance that someone will disagree. Personally, I usually take a "live and let live" approach, especially in shorter sections.  If we used bulleted lists (like the Russian Wikipedia) or colored lines (like the French Wikipedia), then probably more people would prefer your style. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 23:47, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

Greek letters in IPA
I don't see anything in the IPA handbook that specifies that Greek-encoded letters must be used. In fact, I'm reasonably certain that these Latin letters were added precisely because of their use in IPA: see the proposal document here:. Sections 5.1 and 5.3. There are also other reasons why it's a bad idea to mix scripts like this, too, but I don't think it's necessary to go into that. Theknightwho (talk) 12:27, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The appendix specifies the Unicode code points for a voiced bilabial fricative and a voiceless uvular fricative to be 03B2 and 03C7, respectively. As does the List of symbols and diacritics with descriptions & identifiers published in 2020. Nardog (talk) 12:36, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Mea culpa. Theknightwho (talk) 12:40, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Glyph
Following discussion at talk:Glyph, I have edited the article heavily. If you have a moment, I would welcome your expert eye on the result, please? 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:01, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Elie Wiesel
I don't understand your revert. The vowel is not long, as demonstrated by Wiesel in his recording of his name, so /iː/ would clearly mislead almost all WP users. And Collins has /i/ https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/wiesel in the correct pronunciation with the stress on the second syllable (US, not UK). And this vowel is unstressed, so why would it be wrong to use a weak vowel symbol? We use /i/ in our English IPA help page for "mediocre". Isn't that the same kind of weak /i/ as in Wiesel? --Espoo (talk) 21:56, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * See Help:IPA/English. The first vowel in Wiesel is neither prevocalic nor morpheme-final, and does not alternate with /ɪ/. /i/ in Webster's New World College Dictionary is our /iː/, see fleece. Our /i/ represents a situation affected by happy tensing, which Wiesel is not. Nardog (talk) 22:05, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for explaining, but that apparently means that the IPA convention we've chosen here at WP clearly misleads probably 99% of WP users into thinking that all words described with /iː/ should be pronounced with a long /i/, when some or perhaps many would be incorrectly pronounced that way. It would specifically be incorrect to pronounce Wiesel that way. I'm confused by what you're trying to say with your link to "fleece". It's correct to have a long /iː/ there; this is specifically the vowel that is correct in "fleece" and wrong in Wiesel. --Espoo (talk) 22:28, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I was pointing out Webster's New World College Dictionary transcribes fleece, which Help:IPA/English uses to illustrate /iː/, as /flis/, meaning the /i/ in its transcription of Wiesel corresponds to our /iː/. Nardog (talk) 22:37, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I see, thanks.
 * So is there no hope of improving WP's IPA conventions to prevent misleading almost all users by showing /iː/ even in cases where a long vowel as in "fleece" is incorrect? --Espoo (talk) 18:12, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
 * It's not incorrect. It's a phonemic transcription. You may not speak a variety of English with robust contrast in vowel length, but many do, for whom the length mark is helpful in identifying the phoneme. The fact it tends to be shorter in this position is just a general byproduct of the stress system. Nardog (talk) 21:47, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I didn't say it was incorrect. I said it's a clumsy and misleading transcription convention. It misleads people who haven't studied linguistics, i.e. almost all WP users, into thinking they should produce a long vowel like in "fleece" even in this unstressed position. --Espoo (talk) 18:49, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm having a hard time imagining how it could mislead an English speaker to producing an incorrect utterance. They're usually not good at manipulating vowel duration on command. They would get it right as long as they get the stress right. Nardog (talk) 22:45, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * OK, i see; so they'd end up saying it correctly even if they tried to say a long vowel in an unstressed syllable. So our convention is only misleading for people like me who know a little but not a lot about our convention, especially if they've learned a language like Finnish... ;) Thanks a lot for your patience. --Espoo (talk) 14:08, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

/l/ mergers
It seemed that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:MobileDiff/1127928993&markasread=267074066&markasreadwiki=enwiki the /oʊ/ /ʌ/ merger] before /l/ which Merriam-Webster mentioned was notable enough to be included in its pronunciation guide. So, Merriam-Webster, the dictionary of General American is not on General American English according to you? --Mahmudmasri (talk) 12:21, 18 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Merriam-Webster is not a dictionary of General American (which is an accent). It is a dictionary of American English, and includes pronunciations not considered within GA by other dictionaries, such as the lack of yod-dropping, Marry–marry–merry merger, hurry–furry merger, and wine–whine merger. And even then it doesn't document the merger of gull with goal in the main entry, just in the front matter. If it is such a widespread feature we should mention it in English phonology, it should be easy to find a number of sources saying so citing empirical data. But I'm not aware of one, and our coverage of the merger is woefully scant: all it says about it in NAmE is that ANAE mentions it as a merger that "might require further study". Nardog (talk) 01:39, 19 December 2022 (UTC)