User talk:Naruto kobayashi

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on, or ask your question on this page and then place  before the question. Again, welcome! Mizu onna sango15 / 水 女 珊瑚15  01:23, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
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 * Dear Mizu onna sango15,


 * Thank you for your warm welcome.


 * Best regards from Kobe, --Naruto kobayashi (talk) 01:26, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Regarding your complaint
Hello Naruto, I read your incident reports and  with interest and I was wondering if you could please explain how SatuSuro has terrorised you and misled you? On the English Wikipedia, it is very serious to make accusations against other editors, especially accusations as serious as this, so it is very important that you give us diffs and explain the problem so that we can investigate it properly and take appropriate action. I was also wondering if you have edited under another account? I see this account has only a small number of edits and only two edits to article-space and you don't seem to have interacted directly with SatuSuro anywhere so I'm just wondering how he was able to terrorise you. Please give as much information as you can. Thank you, Sarah 01:58, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm curious as well. Kafziel Complaint Department 02:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you Kafziel for your prompt reply. Actually I do not fell being terorized. I am just interested in articles concerning Sunda. And I observed articles concerning it in Wikipedia. And I found that there is a user who is constructive in providing articles concerning Sunda; one of the contributors of the articles is User talk:Hadiyana. But I observed that he was terorized by SatuSuro. SatuSuro seems to hide the truth about Sunda and tried to delete whatever hadiyana write as if his writing is not right. Just see what SatuSuro had done in user talk page of hadiyana. It seem also to me that hadiyana also powerless, jus keep silence withouth submitting complaint. And I want to help such kind of user.


 * I do hope your consideration. Best regards from Kobe, Japan, and thank you, --Naruto kobayashi (talk) 02:32, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Naruto, you have made repeated accusations against SatuSuro and I have spent considerable time looking carefully through numerous edits made to multiple pages and I cannot find any wrong doing on SatuSuro's behalf. I can see that there are some English problems and communications issues here but you simply cannot go around accusing people of "terrorism" and of using Wikipedia to commit "ethnocide" without evidence. This is very serious on the English Wikipedia and I really must insist that you cease making such unfounded accusations. If you wish to pursue a complaint against another editor, you must provide evidence in the form of diffs. If you are unsure how to provide diffs, then please ask for help and I will assist you but these baseless accusations must stop now. I would also like to know if you are using multiple accounts here? If you are, please ensure that your usage conforms to our sock policy and that you do not use your alternate accounts to support each other in content disputes. Thank you, Sarah 03:49, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Sunda Strait‎
Please stop edit warring on the articke Sunda Strait‎. Your version has been reverted by multiple administrators and established editors and so far no established Wikipedian has supported your edit. The only people who are supporting you are obvious sock puppets. This is a violation of the English Wikipedia's editing policies. I understand things might be different on some foreign language projects that you might edit, but here on the English Wikipedia we resolve content disputes by discussion and consensus and using multiple new accounts to edit war and try to force through your preferred version will only result in you being blocked. Instead of using socks to try to give the appearance of a consensus that does not exist, you might respond to my post on the article's talk page and explain why you believe the location of a modern stretch of water should be described in terms of the location of a Kingdom that has not existed for hundreds of years. This makes no sense to me or the editors and administrators who have been reverting your edits and if you really want your edit to stand you are going to have to come and discuss it and explain why we are wrong. Continued edit warring will result in blocks. Sarah 08:33, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Sarah, Sunda Strait is laid between Sumatra and Java island. But do you know it is called Sunda Strait instead of Sumatra Strait or Java Strait? It is named Sunda Strait because in the past there was a territory called Sunda Kingdom inhabited by Sundanese ethnic group. Sundanase share the island of Java with Javanese. It seems to me that some Javanese wikipedia editors want to hide this truth. They tend to exclude Sunda from wikipedia (in my language I consider it as an ethnocide). Please see article Sundanese people and article Javanese people. Javanese editors (SatuSuro and Merbabu) applied double standard; they insist to put a section for "Origins and history" (of Sundanese) to make an impression that Sundanese is not native people of Java island meanwhile they refuse to allocate a section "Origin" in Javanese people page. See history page of both articles. They also make Indonesian history page full of Javanese matter. Do you know that Indonesia consist of many tribes which construct the country in 1945? Indonesia is not Javanese. Do you think it is fair? If you think so, then I will leave english wikipedia because it is disgusting and please banned me from entering this. --Clearradar (talk) 14:45, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Clearradar, I am rather confused and bemused that you are answering a message I left for Naruto as though I was speaking to you! Your account has four edits - two adding a copyright violation to one article, one edit to Sunda Strait talk page, plus your edit here, so it is rather interesting to have you suggest that you would retire if you don't get your own way. Then 15 minutes later, Hadiyana announces his own retirement - it's really very obvious what is going on here. Nevertheless, I will address your post as it stands.


 * Your argument makes no sense to me because this Kingdom is an ancient Kingdom that no longer exists. This seems to me like trying to describe the location of Italy by describing ancient and no longer existing borders of the Holy Roman Empire - it makes no sense and is confusing POV-pushing. People go to this article to read about a piece of water that exists today. They want to know where it is located and describing it in terms of an extinct Kingdom that is not even located on the map used on the page is confusing and makes no sense. I could understand if you wanted to add a sentence to the article explaining where the name "Sunda" came from but what you are doing is simply nonsense.


 * Your accusations against other editors are offensive and unconstructive. Merbabu and SatuSuro are Australian editors and the way you characterise them as "Javanese editors" using Wikipedia to commit terrorism and "ethnocide" is highly offensive and bigoted. They are trying to help write articles in an area that suffers from under-representation and poor writing and they are to be commended for that. On Wikipedia we have a policy called Assume Good Faith which basically means that we assume that other editors are acting with good intentions even if we disagree with them and you really need to learn to follow that policy. Instead of assuming the others are editing Wikipedia with good intentions, you assume they are acting in extremely bad faith, with evil intentions and evil motives. They are good faith editors and it would help a great deal if you treated them as such. If they are mistaken about something, the way to deal with it is not to make sockpuppets to attack them but to talk to them and explain your point-of-view and listen to theirs. I have looked at the articles you refer to - Sundanese people and Javanese people (again, it's fascinating seeing you raise such bitter complaints about articles you have never even edited or attempted to resolve with this account) and I cannot find any discussion where they have done as you allege. In fact, I cannot find any discussion about this issue at all. As for whether I think it is "fair", I don't think it is fair that you have created sockpuppets to attack other editors, nor do I think it is fair that you have made really offensive yet unfounded accusations about other users, nor is it fair that you have tried to distort the perception of consensus, edit warred and refused to discuss your edits. So I would say, no, I do not think any of this is fair. What you seem to be upset about, however, is a content issue that could likely be resolved quite easily if you were willing to edit this project in accordance with our policies and guidelines, cease trying to push your own POV with edit warring and sockpuppets and instead discuss material with other editors who I am quite sure are willing to collaborate with you if you would work with them instead of treating them like the enemy and waging war. Sarah 05:10, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, please do not insert into Wikipedia material you have copied from elsewhere. This is a copyright violation. I thought the slabs of material added to Tembang Sunda represented a higher English skill, checked it and found the material you added to lifted from another site. Please only post material you have written by yourself. Sarah 05:10, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Dear puppets, I believe the accounts, ] the IP address , and  are all obvious and transparent puppets of. Looking at the contributions of these accounts, it is apparent that these accounts were registered to support Hadiyana in his POV-pushing and to exact revenge on editors he disagrees with. The accounts have been used almost exclusively in a misguided and transparent attempt to give the appearance that there was support and consensus where no support or consensus existed and to launch unsupported and offensive attacks against other editors. Several editors attempted to engage Hadiyana and explain the problems with his material but he has been largely unresponsive to the content issues and instead has tried to distort consensus with sock/meatpuppets. The accusations of terrorism and "ethnocide" through Wikipedia are unsupported and continue to be made despite repeated warnings. Thus I am blocking all accounts under the sock policy as abusive sockpuppets. I am also blocking Hadiyana for disruptive editing (socking, sterile edit warring, disruption) but he will be welcome to return without puppets when his block expires. Sarah 05:10, 13 June 2008 (UTC)