User talk:NatGertler

The text on Conversion Therapy is grammatically incorrect
I'm not sure why you reverted my edit to a version which is definitely gramatically incorrect. A sub-list within a list calls for commas in the sub-list and semicolons in the outer list.

I typed in "semicolon grammar list" and these are from the top 3 results from google:


 * "Semicolons can be used to link items in a list, such as objects, locations, names and descriptions. Where the list items already contain commas, a semicolon helps avoid confusion between the items; in this way the semicolon acts like a 'super comma'". (https://www.adelaide.edu.au/writingcentre/ua/media/56/learningguide-semicolons.pdf)


 * "Use a semicolon between items in a list or series if any of the items contain commas." (https://writing.wisc.edu/handbook/semicolons/)


 * "Complex lists in sentences can be hard to read. If you can’t use a bullet or numbered list, separate list items with: commas if the list is simple, such as a list of single words semicolons if the list is complex, such as a list of items that already contain commas or conjunctions." (https://www.stylemanual.gov.au/grammar-punctuation-and-conventions/punctuation-and-capitalisation/semicolons)

Twerges (talk) 23:26, 25 March 2024 (UTC)


 * You seem to be overlooking the primary use of semicolons. "Use a semicolon between closely related independent clauses which are not joined by a coordinating conjunction. This rule means that semicolons are used between two complete sentences which are not already linked by words like and, but, or, nor, for, so, yet." I suggest reading MOS:SEMICOLON for more understanding. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 23:51, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
 * No. I'm referring to the embedded list towards the end of that sentence. There is a list within a list, which requires semicolons in the outer list. Whether it's the primary use of semicolons or not, semicolons are required in that case.
 * The pages you cited don't address this issue, one way or the other. The quotation you provided misses the point completely. Furthermore, this issue is not addressed by MOS:SEMICOLON, either, because it's a less common rule of grammar which MOS:SEMICOLON doesn't address. However, the issue is addressed by the three external pages I provided. A list within a list requires semicolons in the outer list.
 * The semicolon in the original version can be either a semicolon or a period. Both are correct, and both are compatible with MOS:SEMICOLON. However, the embedded list toward the end of the sentence requires semicolons.
 * I'm not demanding the sentence be exactly the way I want it. However, it contains a glaring and elementary grammatical error at present.
 * Twerges (talk) 12:14, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Ah, I had missed that you changed that, as that shows up nigh-invisibly on the change report and the other semicolon-related change represented all the bytes of change. Sorry. Adjusted. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 13:35, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Sure, thanks...
 * Twerges (talk) 05:52, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Traditional practice
Our discussion over there is a tangent to that topic, so I thought I'd bring it here. I invite you to look at these comments from your archived talk pages:


 * October 2009: Do you think that the comment from Historyguy is a reply to Ragazz?  I don't.  But it's indented under it.  Were you confused?  I'm not.
 * February 2010: Do you think the comment from TheRealFennShysa is a reply to Ed?  I don't.  Your reply at the time suggests you didn't, either.  But it's indented under Ed's comment instead of yours.
 * July 2010: Do you think the comment from Moreno Oso is a reply to the now-blocked sock?  It's indented that way.
 * October 2014: Do you think Kudpung's comment is a reply to Miroslav303?  It's indented that way.

I could keep going, but instead I suggest this: Show me a list of discussions on your talk page that involve more than two editors and in which your preferred style was actually used before 2019 (=when the consultation that led to the Reply tool's creation happened). WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:21, 4 April 2024 (UTC)


 * You are free to go on ignoring the guidelines, practice, and the very situation that got me in this. I had mistaken you as someone who was merely ignorant, rather than defiant, and have zero energy or desire to play these games with you at the moment.Let us end it here. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 14:29, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Re: BLPN mouseover
Greetings! About the mouseover preview, I think it's an idea worth exploring, if there's a way to make a change you suggest at BLPN. Are you interested in this in a technical way? If so, I can try to email you screenshots of what OP is probably talking about, or similar. Cheers! JFHJr (㊟) 02:31, 3 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Not really something I want to delve much more into. Thanks for the thought. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 04:24, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

June 8, 2024
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:21, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

a question
do you have the videos called strawberry shortcake sets the school on fire and charlie brown gets a gold card? they've become lost media and i'm trying to hunt them down at this point - if not its fine 2A02:8084:EA4:2B80:ED0F:BA2C:FCBA:2742 (talk) 22:06, 31 May 2024 (UTC)


 * I am unfamiliar with those videos and thus am of no use to you. Good luck! -- Nat Gertler (talk) 22:10, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * https://quiteaplaylist.com/search?url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1beEQDMnzVw
 * https://filmot.com/sidebyside/1beEQDMnzVw/auto.en/auto.en/English+%28auto-generated%29/English+%28auto-generated%29/Charlie+Brown+gets+a+gold+card+and+gets+ungrounded
 * ps thank you 2A02:8084:EA4:2B80:4180:4B59:61B4:C817 (talk) 22:04, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

The problem with templates
I understand the system of escalating cautions, giving the benefit of the doubt, and trying not to repel potentially positive contributors. Templates are an efficient and communally understood way to do that. But I think one problem with them is the temptation to rely on them as automatic responses without considering the context. You reverted an edit here, and thank you for that. It was a vile, anti-semitic, hate-fuelled bit of vandalism. Then you placed a caution on their talk page. Was that an automatic response? Or did you think that was an appropriate and productive response to the edit in question? I added my own warning; something I consider more appropriate, lest the editor misinterpret your response as meaning that such edits are in any way acceptable here. signed, Willondon (talk) 23:31, 8 June 2024 (UTC)


 * As that editor has a floating IP (the earlier, even more antisemitic edit that you undid a few days earlier I presume was the same person), it is utterly unlikely that the editor will ever see that talk page, making the precise warning meaningless. I tagged the page just for the record of having done so, and the welcome template is the most efficient manner for handling that. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 23:54, 8 June 2024 (UTC)


 * I believe my tag is just as efficient. I understand that templates are often not really meant to communicate something to the editor. I use them sometimes just to document an editor's problem behaviour for readers that may come by later. It helps other editors to calibrate further warnings, and serves as a clear marker for administrators who may quickly investigate an editor's activities. I believe the two tags are equally efficient, but mine has the advantage that it doesn't make the system look silly, and properly informs others who may read the page later.  signed, Willondon (talk)  01:22, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Today is my day to not be harangued. If you wish to harangue a volunteer today, please find someone else. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 02:49, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I see your efforts at WP:RFPP. I apologize. May the rest of today and many future days be harangue free for you. Sorry. signed, Willondon (talk)  02:56, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Recent edit to Ralph Shortey's wiki page
Hey Nat! I appriciate you editing the page to "four children" instead. I'm the one who changed it to transgender son and three daughters as I am said transgender son 😅I just thought you'd wanna know! the three girls they have are also my bio sisters. I won't be changing it back tho as I agree with your viewpoint for safety. Again, thank you for your concern! CallMeKJ003 (talk) 15:06, 13 June 2024 (UTC)


 * I suspected that that was likely the case (either that the specific son or someone close to the family was making the change.) However, the fact is that of course anyone can edit, and can even do so claiming that they are a specific involved person -- we do have ways to double-check that if there is some real need to, but they are a hassle. Even if we knew you were you, there is still Wikipedia's verifiability requirement, where readers should be able to check listed sources for any information of import, so that they don't have to trust the encyclopedia that anyone can edit. This is particularly important for edits like the one that you made, because while you probably just didn't want to be misidentified, you can imagine that someone of a certain political bent might make a similar edit in an attempt to discredit the subject of an article, or even to discredit Wikipedia itself (editing Wikipedia means dealing with bad actors fairly frequently.)
 * Thank you for your effort to improve the accuracy of Wikipedia. Have a fine life! -- Nat Gertler (talk) 15:25, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Campbell Brown
Thanks for making those changes. You really improved the article! MaskedSinger (talk) 14:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Matt Strassler (June 30)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by SafariScribe was:

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Safari Scribe Edits! Talk! 14:04, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Matt Strassler has been accepted
 Matt Strassler, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

Since you have made at least 10 edits over more than four days, you can now create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for creation if you prefer.

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Thanks again, and happy editing! Safari Scribe Edits! Talk! 22:03, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Editing Matt Gertler page
Go for it, within reason of course, WP:BEBOLD. Ask for my input if needed, I have reviewed many faculty pages. Odd things do happen; mine got attacked and still contains misinformation which due to COI I cannot change. So it goes.

N.B., you will lose about the name, I did on mine! Ldm1954 (talk) 23:12, 30 June 2024 (UTC)


 * No, I won on the page name, I wanted Matt Strassler and there it landed.
 * I am perhaps generally more scrupulous about WP:COI than I need to be, but feel as someone who both edits under his own name and who has a Wikipedia page, too much attention will be drawn, so I tend to try to work through proper channels on non-minor edits before pulling a WP:IAR excuse (although I did have to do that eventually on my own page, where the person who responded to my edit request was making up silly reasons for keeping some information outdated.)
 * I got the page up, finally (an thank you for your help in the end), now it's in the hands of all. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 23:20, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @NatGertler, thanks finally for your kind (non harsh) words. Safari Scribe Edits! Talk! 23:34, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I am sorry I have to jump in here. @Ldm1954, before you take an editor to a noticeboard or to any place (not including mine now), it's due diligence to sort it out with the editor first. This things help keep civility herein. Also don't forget that here is a free world where people volunteer. It's somewhat a stress especially for so many including me–preparing my next apostolic work as a Catholic clergy and theologian. Please it's a passionate appeal. Everybody isn't expected to be perfect, and many doesn't know this is how this should be. All the best! Safari Scribe Edits! Talk! 23:33, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * As the US's largest publisher of cartoons about Catholic clergy (odd, but I'm pretty sure it's true), I wish for you both wisdom and humor in your new work. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 23:46, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
 * It isn't odd, I mean Catholics are pretty symbolical especially with stuffs like that; cartoons on biblical message for children, bulletin, etc. Sunday liturgy and evening vespers is one of my best in the breviary (you mayn't known this one), and I am sure in Nigeria, cartoonist (not as notable as you) do sell massively today). Thank you for the prayer. I am far from the journey too, at least a theologian one entering the second year will take up to three years before my diaconate and then priestly ordination. Thanks though. Safari Scribe Edits! Talk! 00:17, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oh, I don't think it's at all odd that someone is the biggest publisher of Catholic cartoons in the US; it's just odd that my own atheistic Jewish self is the one. (Primarily, reprints of 1950s publicatons from Catholic cartoon specialty presses.) But I am glad to hear that the cartooning charge lives well in Nigeria! -- Nat Gertler (talk) 01:17, 1 July 2024 (UTC)