User talk:Nataev/Archive 11

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Uzbek alphabet
(No, I don't speak Uzbek).

Hi. I'm a bit confused by our article. For example, in the lead we say "it has been officially written in the Latin script since 1992", but then go on to detail how in the years since Uzbek has been written in Cyrillic instead of Latin. E.g. "Since 2004, some official websites have switched over to using the Latin script", which suggests that between 1992 and 2004 Uzbek was officially written in Cyrillic, and that since 2004 it has only partially been written in Latin.

Will you update the article with the results of the public discussion?

One reason I've been trying to figure out what's going on is that I've been trying to typeset something in Uzbek, and keep coming across contradictory reports of what the orthography is. I take it that for now, it's best to typeset Uzbek text in the 1995 alphabet?

Also, are there any other orthographic changes (e.g. different analyses of what the vowels are, as in the Kazakh reforms), or is the reform simply a matter of blindly substituting ch, sh, gʻ, oʻ with ç, ş, ḡ, ō?

Also, the two sources you provide contradict one another. The Russian source says that ғ, ў are to be ḡ, ō, but the English source says they are to be ǵ, ó. Do we know one is wrong, or do they reflect a change in the proposal?

Thanks, — kwami (talk) 05:18, 30 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Hi! I've changed the lead. Basically, Uzbekistan has been struggling to fully switch to Latin. As for the public discussion, I'm skeptical about it. Word has it that the current president has put a hold on revising the alphabet once again due to two reasons: it's going to be expensive, and Mother Russia isn't too happy about this whole thing. Moreover, only 37 people have commented so far. People have just grown tired of this crap and don't care about it anymore. To make things worse, in 2013 a group of smartasses (I'm pretty sure these are the same people who have been proposing replacing ch, sh, gʻ, oʻ with ç, ş, ḡ, ō since 2018) published a new orthographic dictionary in Latin and introducied some new rules. Among other things, they proposed spelling sentabr (1995 rule) as sentyabr. But these rules haven't been officially endorsed.


 * And yes, the reforms primarily concern the absurd okina-like symbols. Supposedly Karimov didn't want the Uzbek alphabet to be too similar to Turkish, so he insisted that the local linguists come up with unique symbols. And come up with unique symbols they did. So unique that an absolute majority of 30 or so million Uzbeks don't know or care about the difference between ʻ and ʼ. But yes, the 1995 alphabet and orthography are still in force.


 * As for the two sources, that's what happens and when people who don't actually speak the language report. The English version is obviously wrong. N ataev  talk 07:24, 30 October 2021 (UTC)


 * It looks like the Latin orthography is sometimes more than just a transliteration of the Cyrillic. Like oktabr -- is that mostly that Russian loans are spelled as in Russian in Cyrillic, but as they're pronounced in Latin? I went through a paragraph, and every word of a blind transliteration agreed with with the 1999 Cyrillic-Latin lexicon you linked to (even the proper name Navoiy), so it would seem there aren't many irregularities. — kwami (talk) 11:13, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, the Latin orthography has a few (pretty dumb) rules. For instance, circus is spelled цирк in Cyrillic, but sirk in Latin. Basically, they're trying hard to get rid of Russian influence (the letter ц in this specific case). However, most people spell Jack as Jek in the Uzbek Latin script. Basically, they take local geographical names in countries where a Latin alphabet is used or names originally written in a Latin script, see the Russian spelling in Cyrillic, and then write the word in Latin. Rather like Azerbaijanis. N ataev  talk 04:06, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * , it seems they're gonna change the alphabet after all. N ataev  talk 09:54, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks! So, a Turkish ğ, but the article contradicts itself on whether the vowel will be ō or õ. We'll see -- I'm assuming no guarantee the bill will pass. At least the changes are minimal enough that it shouldn't be a problem for people to read both.
 * I'd assume that $⟨ñ⟩$ is only for when it's a single consonant, and that final -n + dative -ga would still be spelled $⟨ng⟩$, e.g. tomonga, menga? — kwami (talk) 10:08, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The vowel for sure will be õ, not ō. It's a typo or they're simply quoting their anonymous source. You're right on $⟨ñ⟩$, I think. It's going to create a lot of confusion. But yes, until the proposed changes are signed into law, there's no need to worry too much about them now. N ataev  talk 06:00, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

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