User talk:Nate1481/Archive 3

Hapkido
I don't think the revisions you are reinstated can be characterized as vandalism, although there is a three time revision rule. I think you are using the revision to remove biased POV in the language and I support the changes you are making here for that reason.--Mateo2006 16:55, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. I'll keep my eye out for arbitrary revisions that they make on pages that I routinely view (like hapkido )so I can undo some of their reverts and you'll avoid the 3 revert rule as well. Let me know if you need any other assistance. Best--Mateo2006 15:16, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Manav by country
Hi Nate, I liked your additions of the Martial Arts Portal and moving the "unknown" section to the bottom middle of the box. I changed a couple other things back, though, and I wanted to explain why.
 * I moved Portugal back to the middle column, because I thought it looked wierd for the middle column to be shorter than the other two.
 * I undid the addition of the word "with" to "Unknown or no single origin". I believe this is actually more grammatically correct without "with".  That is, the way the phrase is written now, with the word "or" in the middle and no commas, it conveys:
 * Unknown origin, or
 * No single origin
 * You could properly write it as "With unknown or no single origin", which conveys:
 * With unknown origin, or
 * With no single origin
 * but in any event, this is unnecessarily specific (in my opinion) when there is no grammatical need for any more words.

Please don't hesitate to let me know if you'd like to discuss any of this further; as always, I'm open to discussion. Bradford44 14:25, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Likewise with having "see also" in front of "Martial Arts Portal", which I think is redundant. It seems to me that the purpose of the link to the Martial Arts Portal is self-evident.

Interest in dyslexia article
Hi, Nate1481.

We seem to have lost all momentum on the dyslexia article because all of our editors have disappeared! I'd like to see us make some forward movement on the work, but would prefer to work in a collaborative group so that we can build consensus as we go and not have to backtrack and redo later.

Let me know if you're still around and interested in working on the article.

Best, Rosmoran 23:52, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

so called vandalism
Dear Nate I must strenuously object to you labeling my posts as vandalism. I thought the idea of wikipedia was to draw upon of the collective facts to present a comprehensiuve view on a subject. I have not published anything that was not 100% true. It maybe distasteful to certain people but it is cold hard fact. I would appreciate an apology and a detraction of your label of me as a vandal. If you would like a further explanation of who I am and how I know what I know I would be most happy to oblige. I would be especially curious as to what you define as "nonsense". Best, Sam — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tiger313 (talk • contribs)
 * Diff linked for convenice Brainwashing, poison stone? if not nonsense need sourcing. --Nate1481(t/c) 17:01, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

POV
No worries, Nate. Removing POV is important.--Mateo2006 22:01, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Martial Arts
Hey Nate,

Thanks for undoing my incorrect changes in Martial Arts. I wasn't thinking straight yesterday and got on a redundant redundancy kick. But I do think at least some of the extra links are uneccessary.

-Charleca 11:31, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * For example, Judo is linked at least two other times in the article (not counting the initial section). Karate and Boxing are also linked a couple times.  There are a couple others that are questionable. -Charleca 11:56, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

AWB is correct
right, I got it. I'm still scare of big changes. jmcw 16:11, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Hey Nate;

I noticed you tend to chime in on pages I edit - which is great. How do you find them. Is there a way of searching recent martial art article edits.Peter Rehse 09:28, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Ah I was just wondering - frankly the blunt instrument is really useful. I went a little crazy there for a time with pages so I keep my watch list small and look for a few things here and there.Peter Rehse 09:39, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Proposal for dyslexia navigation box
Hi, Nate.

There is a proposal to create a navigation tool for the dyslexia article. As you know, we have plans to break the article up into a series of articles. The goal of the navigation box is to assist users in moving from one topic to another easily, and to suggest a brief list of topic areas (not necessarily individual topics) that are related.

I would very much like to get your feedback on the template before it is implemented.

Takt a look at the Talk:Dyslexia page, then scroll nearly to the bottom of the page for information and links to the strawmen I've put out for review and discussion.

Best,

Rosmoran 12:55, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Copyright
You need to inset where the copyright is from.

ARMA
In an orgnanization name, "Martial Arts" should remain capitalized (at least in the case of ARMA). I have thus reverted your recent changes the the Association for Renaissance Martial Arts article. The Jade Knight 04:01, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Cuong Nhu Vo Dao and Tsuriai-Ryu Goshin Jitsu
I wonder if both of these - but especially the former should got to afd debate. Recent invention, few dojo (maybe just one) and especially in the latter bad marketing - it definately is not a traditional Japanese art. I guess the question is should both be done at once or one and then the other.Peter Rehse 03:19, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Arthur Burton-Garbett
A template has been added to the article Arthur Burton-Garbett, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice explains why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may contest the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. If you endorse deletion of the article, and you are the only person who has made substantial edits to the page, please tag it with db-author. hbdragon88 00:05, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Deleting external links
Hi Nate It seems that you have deleted external links in the martial arts article  While I did not take the time to find out about the other links, I feel this link: is an extemly important source for martial arts' moves.

One of the main wikipedia problems, the copy right problem, is dealt with by generating the content and varifying it. Of course this may contribute to somewhat less then perfect technique, but I am sure time and contributors will solve it.

You can notice the AKBAN-wiki use of semantic wiki nestling categories and the inclusion of  canonized content out side of Youtube.

It is true I was one of the students of this school, but I am now restricted to achademical learning only (age).

I chose to write to you instead of having an edit-war.

I value your judgment so if you will decide that more then 1000 techniques in video with nothing to sell, no dvd to buy etc, are not beneficial to our understanding of martial arts I will abide by your judgment. Gingihan

Added the link,
Thanks for the response. It's a pity there aren't many more serious projects like the AKBAN-wiki. We could all turn into armchair researchers, touring the immense world of martial arts from our homes. Thanks again Gingihan

WikiProject Bradford
I have noticed the success of WikiProject Sheffield (almost all of the Yorkshire WikiProject's FAs are related to Sheffield), and I think that the same should be done for Bradford. Your signature on the WikiProject said that you were interested in writing about Bradford and Bradford Uni, would you be interested in setting up a Bradford WikiProject with me? I do not live there at the moment, but will be moving there in September for my gap year and am keen to improve articles on the area. What do you think? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 12:19, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it's because it's too broad, not many people want to work on the county, more would be interested in working on their local area, such as yourself. Similarly, our WikiProject on History is very quite, but our Project on Military History is the largest on Wikipedia. Anyway, we can start a basic page and see if anyone's interested. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 13:09, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Created! WP:BRADFORD. I'll go alert all the relevant places. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 13:34, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, next task: sorting out what we've got already. Can you put together a list of templates relating to Bradford that exist while I set up the assessmment system? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 13:52, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Lycan
I didn't miss the PROD but felt a redirect was better than my deleting it. Which is what I did with the others that had the PROD on it. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 13:12, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, OK I just reverted it back to the article. You might want to check out the other 2 or 3 that were also prods. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 13:50, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Wrestling
The information I added to the wrestling article is far beyond constructive. Putting Cael Sanderson and some high school kid before a person with the credentials of Dan Gable is destructive. Seeing that you aren't even from the United States where do you get the sense to say what I put up in unconstructive is beyond me. You have made it obvious you know nothing of Freestyle wrestling but how to spell it. You can even look up Dan Gable on Wikipedia and see his accomplishments. He won the olympics without having a single point scored on him, then went on to lead Iowa wrestling to 15 NCAA championships and 21 consecutive Big Ten championships. He was defeated only once in his career. He is part of a lineage of Iowa State wrestlers who have won Olympic Gold medals. He was at Iowa Stae before Cael Sanderson was even born. Cael Sanderson has coached on year. And I might add his team lost to Dan Gables. Dan Gable has coached several Olympic Gold Medalist and an Olympic team. Despite all this you mention Cael but not him. Cael is a phenom of a wrestler, he does deserve mention. But know this. He wrestled his entire high school career in Utah and then came to Iowa to "LEARN" how to win at the Olympic level. What you did was not only wrong but a sin. I challenge you to learn as much about Dan Gable as possible and the Iowa Wrestling program and then say what I wrote was unconstructive.

I apologize for the attack. I have yet to figure out how to add citations. Being from Iowa where wrestling is held above all else, Dan Gable is a legend. Wikipdia itself has a page designated for him with citations as well as being mentioned in the popular sports magazine "Sports Illustrated" greatest sports figure in Iowa history. To keep this from being a POV simply look at the outstanding career he has had as both an athlete and a coach. To this day he is stilled unparalled as a coach. As mentioned earlier I am unfamaliar with how to site my source and once again I apologize.

WikiProject "Definitions"
Hi Nate, great job revising the definitions (of style, system, etc...) on the WP:WPMA. Those have been driving me nuts for a while now, but I haven't been able to come up with a really good way to restate them. Now if only we could get rid of all those red links used for examples... Bradford44 12:20, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

List of Martial arts
Hey Nate for some strange reason I can't edit the list. I know we created a bunch of dead links with the recent deletions - could you try.Peter Rehse 14:38, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks - it was bugging me. WIkipedia behave funny here. Today I got an e-mail from the Cuong Nhu Vo Dao guy. I was polite but I couldn't help myself but refer to the World Head of Family Sokeship Council as a joke.Peter Rehse 09:15, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Youn Wha Ryu
I read the "What to Link/What not to Link" article. You are right, the guidelines lead interpretation to avoid "club" advertising. However, how can a link representing the factual geographic location of the subject matter be advertising? There is no subjectivity involved.

The reverted material was effectively:

"Broadway - A current location where this show is playing"

I would agree with you if the link had been:

"Broadway - Come here for amazing show!!"

But as I said, factual information regarding the location of the subject matter isn't necessarily advertising. Interpretation and perception always make everthing more difficult. Not trying to create a revision war...

Thoughts?

Brink9 16:35, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Youn Wha Ryu (2)
Unfortunately, that is not that case. There is not a "master list" of locations where that specific art form is studied. There are a couple random sites that list several locations (out of 157).

Your legalistic approach to a perception based guideline is very disheartening. Informed contributors attempting to further the "wiki-verse" give up, not feeling it is worth the time spent arguing with someone trying to up their edit count.

I'm sure your next statement will be "rules are rules," which is absurd when you and I both know that a link to an official site pertaining to the subject matter is highly relevant. Especially when there is obviously no intention of "advertising" (not to mention the fact that multiple locations were listed in a single edit).

This antagonistic approach of "I'll undo this edit and tell you to read a page that has no definitive rule about your contribution" is, for lack of a better word... "childish."

Brink9 12:32, 1 August 2007 (UTC)


 * There is a wikki saying " Wikki is not a link farm." A rule? What if every style and every school added a link to their homepage? There at tens of thousands of karate schools in America - you could not find any thing that was exceptional. No one here disputes your link to 1 home page for your style - it is important and significant. Don't be discouraged - it takes a little while to learn the conventions here. And, yes, the tone can be sometimes abrupt and childish. Life is tough for us martial artists - we can handle it. jmcw 14:41, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

User page
Thanks for the revert. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 14:22, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Aikido
Hi I just resubmitted the Aikido article for Featured article status. Hopefully we can get over the hump this time.Peter Rehse 08:32, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Kushindo
Here's a bone to the dog. Take a look and the other one she wrote. I'm off to bed but.....Peter Rehse 16:29, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Martial arts templates
Hi Nate, I just wanted to mention something for you to keep in the back of your head. As the martial arts templates continue to grow, I believe there will be a point when we revise the inclusion criteria to be B-class or higher. I'm thinking the appropriate time will be when about half or more of the currently included articles are B-class or better. So nothing needs to be done immediately, I just wanted to see if you're of the same opinion. Bradford44 14:16, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Template:Dylseixa
A template you created, Template:Dylseixa, has been marked for deletion as a deprecated and orphaned template. If, after 14 days, there has been no objection, the template will be deleted. If you wish to object to its deletion, please list your objection here and feel free to remove the   tag from the template. If you feel the deletion is appropriate, no further action is necessary. Thanks for your attention. --MZMcBride 17:14, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, I don't understand your objection left on WT:DOT. Are you concerned that if the template redirect is deleted, it may be recreated? If that is your concern, the template redirect can still be deleted and blocked from re-creation. Thoughts? --MZMcBride 00:14, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the formatting help on Retuinskih page! - B-ham

Footer navigation boxes on Mixed martial arts
Footer navigation boxes go on the footer—the very bottom of pages—as defined by the manual of style. Please see Article_series. Unless you believe the MOS does not apply, I will unrevert and move back the boxes to the bottom of the page. hateless 09:24, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Zhou Tong titles
The page is not a biography about Zhou Tong, just about the martial arts skills attributed to him. "Grandmaster" is not an academic title. I can understand taking away the "Dr" from Yang Jwing-Ming's name since the source of the academic title needs to be given (which I can provide, but it's not crucial to the actual page). Besides, when you deleted "master" you deleted one of them from the title of a book. I won't change anything back until we can come to an agreement. --Ghostexorcist 15:57, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Those other instances of "Grandmaster" are not about Zhou Tong. They are modern day masters that teach styles (such as Eagle Claw and Wudang boxing) that are linked to Zhou through legends. So the academic rule has no bearing here. All of the references mention the individual modern-day people as "Grandmasters". There is no historical evidence that Zhou knew martial arts at all. As I previously said, one of the "Masters" you deleted was from the English translation of this rather long Ming Dynasty book title: 大宋圈内第一高手周侗真传虎啸金钟罩服气炼形秘术. I'm not trying to be mean, but did you even read the article? I realize it needs cleaning up. --Ghostexorcist 18:47, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It still does not apply because Leung Shum and Lily Lau are not the creators of Eagle Claw. As I'm sure you know, Yue Fei is considered the founder of the style. Leung and Lau are called grandmasters because their senior students are masters themselves. This follows the family system of ranking. Besides, there is only a single mention of their names throughout the entire article.


 * You could have at least rewritten some of the sentences to make them read fluently. The subtraction of a single word completely changes the meaning or intention of the original sentence. For instance, in the Hard qigong section it talks about a Wudang master named Fan Keping. But when you cut out the master, the sentence now reads "Wudangquan Fan Keping". People will think this is a Wudang style called "Fan Keping"! This is just one of many deletions that interfere with the flow of a sentence. --Ghostexorcist 04:35, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Re: code
Nah, I don't really mind, but I'd appreciate it if you picked out some different icons for you header, there are a bunch of them floating around after all (the "add new message" icon still goes to my talk page, by the way). The way you do mirror text is with the Unicode LRO character, which is represented as. Just put it in front of whatever you want to mirror, and reverse it with the RLO character (which is ). Here's something else for more context. '''east. 718 '  at 16:20, August 16, 2007&mdash;please reply on my talk page!
 * Just letting you know that ampersands don't work inside the  tag. east  . 718   at 20:38, August 16, 2007&mdash;please reply on my talk page! 

Nate, thank you for the invite to Wiki Martial Arts! I'd love to be involved! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by B-ham (talk • contribs).

August 2007
Please assume good faith when dealing with other editors, which you did not on User talk:Bennyboyz3000. Thank you. ''As you know, I was just trying to make a point. But if we're going to get into pointless warnings well...'' Ben 08:26, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Absolutely everything on Wikipedia is released under the GFDL. Perhaps you should learn the similarities between userspace and mainspace. Anyone can edit :-) --Ben 08:36, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Very true :-) Anywho, nice to meet you! --Ben 08:43, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Why did you create a new page in my userspace?
Can you explain this? --Ben 15:40, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It was a comment on the talk page asking how you believed I was breaching policy as the comments your user sub page suggested. --Nate1481(t/c) 08:08, 28 August 2007 (UTC)