User talk:NavalWarrior

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North American P-51 Mustang variants
Gday. I can see you have made quite a number of edits to this article which have been reverted by another editor for reasons which they have listed in their edit summary. As a suggestion in these circumstances it is usually best for you to start a discussion on the article talk page here in order to try and reach a consensus before continuing to edit (pls see the policy at WP:BRD which stands for "Bold, Revert, Discuss"). This will hopefully ensure that collaboration can occur to improve the article rather than resulting in an edit war. All the best. Anotherclown (talk) 09:51, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

RESPONSE: The problem is that most of the info, whether taken from a known source. . . is incorrect. Even U.S.military websites are incorrect when dealing with the Allison engined Mustang. It is not the fault of the original authors or those seeking to add the info. Too often the original authors 'took liberties' with a sentence. . . which changed the meaning. Sometime the author made a 'guess' to what was actually being said. The confusion started (my assessment only) when the USAAF (or USAAC) took two British planes for testing (two XP-51s). Since these two were purchased for testing, the designator of XP-51 was correct.

The first actual variant was the Mk I, all except the two above, went into RAF sercice. No problem here (except that B/W photos of Mustang Mk Is with U.S. National Insignia caused additional confusion. In difference to German protest (to a neutral country) the U.S. put their insignia on British Muatangs destined for the RAF. Once the aircraft arrived in Britain, RAF roundels were substituted.  Since viewing these photos, authors have incorrectly believed that these Mk Is were for the USAAF!  Not true. Confusion continues!  Aside from the two XP-51s, the U.S. used no Mk Is.

The first variant used by the USAAF (other than testing) was the Mustang Mk IA, which was ordered for the British (paid for by the U.S. and given as Lend Lease). When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, North American Aviation was producing the Mk IA (RAF requested a change to four 20 mm cannons which created the Mk IA). It was at this time the U.S. held back 57 Mustang Mk IAs for the USAAF. It was at this time that the CONFUSION trippled! The USAAF gave these Mustang MkIAs an American designation of 'P-51-1.' Normally, the service specifies the number, as in this case, P-51. The factory building the plane wouldadd the 'letters' for changes, as in this case should have been an 'A' or 'P-51A' for the first variant in service. At least once source incorrectly infered that the USAAF retrofitted some Mk IA with machineguns in lieu of the 20 mm cannons. I believe that the author saw the black and white photos of the camouflaged RAF Mustang Mk Is with U.S.National insignia. Again these were British destined Mustangs with American markings in difference to German protests since the U.S. was neutral at the time.

The first Mustang airframe ordered for the USAAF service was the 'A-36A' dive bomber. As you can see, they added 'A' for the first variant, as was proper. NAA was very concerned that the USAAF was not showing any interest in the Muatang through 1942, so they went through (on their own initiative) aircraft contract request for different kinds of aircraft. They wanted more time to secure a fighter order of the Mustang by the USAAF, so converting the Mustang fighter seemed doable. It would keep the production bays open a little longer. It worked. It took several months, but the USAAF gave them a contact for a fighter version of the Mustang, which resulted in the P-51A!

A little over 300 P-51As were built before the production change over for the Merlin P-51B. The confusion contines: 35 P-51As were fitted with cameras and re-designated as A-6Bs, but still retained the black stencil of 'P-51A' under the left side of the cockpit. Confusion, confusion. A separate 50 P-51As were given to the RAF (since we confiscated 57 Mk IA earlier) and designated them 'Mustang Mk IIs. The most important error/oversight is that the P-51A/Mustang Mk II had increased performance; a Max speed of 410 MPH, a gain of 20 MPH over earlier variants, AND an increase of optimum operating alttude of 17,500 ft over 15,000 ft of the older variants.

To recap:

1st - Mustang Mk I (two became XP-51 for USAAF/USAAC) armament of two 50 cal in nose and one in each wing flanked by two .303 Browning MG.// 2nd - Mustang Mk IA (cannon gunned version of the Mk I, two in each wing) 57 became USAAF P-51-1, with 55 again redesignated as F-6A. // 3rd - A-36A Apache/Invader/Mustang, dive bomber version; first variant to be plumbed for drop tanks (six 50 cal MG, two in nose with two in each wing; nose guns were often deleted in field to save weigh and ease of engine maintenance. // 4th - P-51A Mustang, 35 became F-6Bs and 50 were sent to Britain for the RAF as Mustang Mk IIs; (four 50 cal MG, two in each wing) retained the drop tank capability of the A-36A (production paralleled the A-36a after several months). Also had th longest range of all the Allison variants. Most importantly, it had improved performance over the earlier variants. Perfect for the CBI theater - as Japanese AF did not operate at high altitudes (While other commands were requesting new fighters, the !st Air Commando Unit sought out used but well maintained P-51As/A-36As from training bases in the US, resulting in 30 being sent to India for the 1st Air Commando Unit.

Historical achievements:

In 1943, A-36As were, used as escort fighters for B-26 Marauder medium bombers on an 800 mile round trip from North Africa to Italy, setting a long range record for a single engine fighter. Also, the Flying Tigers and the 1st Air Commando Unit flew long range missions (one of which was an escort of B-25s) in the P-51A, which preceeded the first long range mission of the Merlin P-51Bs of Dec 1943!

Consensus does not always equal accuracy. Pass this info to the Nay-sayers. Take the time to check my work. I am a Naval Officer by trade, so I have a tendency to check things often.

If you want me to stand down, I will. But your website will continue the confusion! THANKS. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.24.236.140 (talk) 22:28, 5 August 2015 (UTC)


 * I would recommend that you read Wikipedia's policies on original research and reliable sources. Your observations and research are both interesting and valuable, but unless they are supported by published sources, we can't use them in articles.  Regards -  Scr ★ pIron IV 14:32, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

August 2015

 * Hello NavalWarrior. I have reverted your recent edits to North American P-51 Mustang variants because they appear unconstructive and disruptive to the main text. Please discuss any major edits you have in mind on the appropriate talk page first, where other editorial colleagues can comment. Cheers. Irondome (talk) 14:26, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Please do not add or change content, as you did at North American P-51 Mustang variants, without citing a reliable source. Please review the guidelines at Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you.  Scr ★ pIron IV 17:11, 11 August 2015 (UTC)