User talk:Navnløs/Archive 1

Thanks for you contribution to Lords of Chaos
I really appreciate your recent addition to Lords of Chaos (book). Since over a month ago I have to get it through to Cyrus XIII that the book is partly a fascist propaganda tract. Zara1709 08:00, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Deleting pages you created
To delete a page that you created but don't want any more, you can edit the page and add the text db-author. Also, if you create a page that duplicates another page, you can edit the page and change it to #REDIRECT Other page name, called a redirect, which will cause anyone going to that page to be transferred to the other page. Stifle (talk) 12:47, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Canvassing
Please see WP:CANVASS. Thanks. -- Ben 23:03, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

And check this out. It's the contributions page. Everyone has one. Ooh. There's one more link that I use all the time that you might find helpful. -- Ben 23:06, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

This tool is worth its weight in gold. Try it out. -- Ben 23:07, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Re: Help with bands
Hey, I don't know if i am doing this correctly, so sorry if this is in a wrong place. Anyway, yeah I would like some help, at the moment I havent been doing any other bands, as im all tired up with college work, but i will keep you in mind for the future so expect a mini comment asking for help :) Thanks dude. regards METALFREAK04 13:58, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Re: Reply
Hey, man. Yeah the first like 2 weeks I was on here, on wikipedia, i was like creating about 12 a day but now its like all this work and getting invites to parties and shit...college life is good..;)...So yeah I get on this in half term soon and create a band and you can help me with it.

Second :)...yeah Greek Mythogoly is amazing so intrested in it now, as I am studing classis for AS and A level :). But I was more into Roman and Eyptian Paganism and mythogoly before :D. Whjat did i say again and where did i say it? I post alot on Greek, eyptian ancient stuff. Regards dude. METALFREAK04 11:59, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

spelling error: Egyptian**

RE: Greetings
I'm glad to help. What would you like me to review/discuss?

I was wandering if you could help me out finishing the death metal history part. The early history was pretty straight forward, most sources tell the same story (thrash metal, Venom, Possessed) but the late 80ies are not clear to me. The rise of grindcore, thrash getting more extreme, the rise of early death metal, Brazil, Germany, Sweden, tons of bands of arguable notability that arguably have influenced death metal (f.e. Discharge, Necrophagia, Slaughter)... I can't figure out how to write a comprehensive story containing all the important death metal elements. Kameejl (Talk) 12:36, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Offer accepted! Always ready to take any help I get! Weltanschaunng 13:06, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the offer. I'll let you know if I need any help. I'm always willing to help a fellow heavy metal fan Bloodredchaos 14:57, 18 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your comment on my talk page. The reason the second part is about black metal is that I used the black metal article as template. I'll try to find more information on death metal any time soon. Kameejl (Talk) 07:13, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, about the list being in a vertical line...there is bit of code that is to be put in the page. I did it on the thrash metal list, copying it from the black metal page. Here is the code:

Put this at the start of the list.

Now put this where you want to end your first column.

Put the above code whenever you want to end that particular column and start a new one. Normally most lists have three columns. You may need to see the preview a few times to make sure all columns are of even height.

At the end of the third (last) column put this code:

I hope this solves your problem. I am no wikigenius, just snooping around to see what code does what. Happy editing! Weltanschaunng 09:18, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Enough
There is a limit to malicious boldness for the reason of reaching the target to have articles on wikipedia reflect oneselfs personal views. Removing opinions on talk pages (as you did here) that go against yours is clearly over it, even if they are minorly offensive. Please explain, otherwise i don't see anything else to do than to take the whole case, "you", to AN/I. ~ | twsx | talkcont | 22:35, 18 October 2007 (UTC)


 * That is no valid reason. Everybody has a right to utter his opinion for a topic on talk pages. You need to stop the attitude. You need to restrain the way you contribute to policy. You also need to trim your user page. While i do not believe you have an honest interest in adding to wikipedia, i nevertheless hope to see a change. ~ | twsx | talkcont | 22:51, 18 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I started to reply on my talk page. Seemed to make more sense, as you started making multiple sections and blocks on it. ~ | twsx | talkcont | 23:02, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Metal lists
Yes, I agree that all the lists should use the same format. I think that what Weltanschaunng implemented in the List of thrash metal bands should be used for the other lists as well. I might work on some myself if I find the time. Bloodredchaos 07:14, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

RE: Confusion about a few things
Some people think lists don't belong on wikipedia per WP:NOT: "Wikipedia is not a directory" and the like. I think some people overreact when it comes to deleting content but they have an official policy to back it up. Small "list of genre X" articles not often survive AFDs.

And regarding user Twsx, genres should be decapitalized per WP:MUSTARD but there is no guideline or policy stating the genres should be comma separated. Many articles feature line break separated lists and that's fine by me (and most people seem to agree). Twsx is imposing his/her point of view. Twsx's point of view and other genre lay out styles have been discussed before but no consensus has ever been reached. There is no reason to accept Twsx's changes. I have discussed with Twsx but it didn't stop him/her from editing. I would keep on reverting Twsx's changes but be aware of the 3RR rule. If you have any more questions, please ask. Kameejl (Talk) 19:55, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I read the comments on WP:ANI, mmm these people were not very friendly. But the last comment is clear, Mr. Comma Separated (I forgot the user's name) said he's willing to stop.


 * I f you still want to reach consensus, the best place to start is here.


 * Here is where I discussed this issue a while ago:
 * Template_talk:Infobox_Musical_artist


 * Happy editing! Kameejl (Talk) 08:04, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

How Aggravating
Your edits on the Sarcofago and Bathory pages are breaking WP:POV. Please stop. I only broke WP:POV once, which I apologized for. Though it does state on WP:MUSTARD about the decapitalization of genres it says nothing about separating the genres with commas. The majority of pages I have seen on wikipedia still have the line break between genres and it should stay that way. You cannot support your argument. There is no reason to accept your changes to what was a fine page before. I would'nt care except that not only can you not back up what you are saying but, when you comma separate the genres it looks ugly and the "law," so to speak, is on my side since no consensus has been reached on either line breaking or comma breaking.Navnløs 22:07, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, I'm not sure what writing html has to do with this situation, but I assure you, I can write html.Navnløs 22:08, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * On a further note why do you call this a game? I find that offensive as I am taking this seriously and it is not a game.Navnløs 22:21, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Additionaly, why do you care so much about those two pages? It is not your area of expertise, and all your doing is changing the look of it slightly and it seems you're doing this just to aggravate me. Let it be, especially when it seems the way I am doing it (with the line breaks) is more popular...see pages such as Judas Priest, and please don't tell me you're gonna change that page now that I told you about it. This band, and many other famous early metal bands, list it the way I do (and I had nothing to do with it) so will you please leave them that way.Navnløs 22:14, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * See such pages as Thrash metal and Black metal,are you telling me you want to edit the music infoboxes there, too?? Seeing as how they go with the line break between genres???Navnløs 22:24, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Too drunk, will answer tomorrow. ~ | twsx | talkcont | 22:26, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

omg...and here you are thinking you're the constructive person? It would have been better if you had just waited till tomorrow to say anything at all...Navnløs 22:29, 22 October 2007 (UTC) Oh look, right there on the list Suggestbot sent you...right up there right on your talk page^...the band Darkane...and what's this? It has line breaking between genres in its music infobox!!! Since, you're too drunk to know what I'm talking about let's make this simple and I'll just put a link for you here: Darkane.Navnløs 22:34, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Response
I first thought i'd answer to all of your messages individually, but since you don't really make a point, i'll just go through this quick: I am not even going into the incivil last of your paragraphs, all i'm going to say is that using the suggest bot does in no way require me to even look at the article, i just thought i'd try the bot out, and have yet not found the time to look into the suggestions. I am honestly looking forward to reading your reply. And please excuse spelling and syntax mistakes, i am kind of having a hangover and still have to work. ~ | twsx | talkcont | 08:37, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * POV? As far as I was aware, POV reflects editing behavoir regarding content, not wikification and similar. To be sure, i went over it again, and while there are some points regarding spelling (i.e. about British and American english) i still can't seem to understand that accusation. Please help me out.
 * My argument is supported, allthough not prescribed, by policies i have mentioned to you at least once.
 * We stand on opposite sides, yet we are in the same position. You have no reason to accept my edits, i have no reason to accept yours. While i can point out the already existing policy is sort of on my side, this very issue is still being debated without any kind of consensus, so we will just have to agree that we disagree. Your argument why you think my version is "bad", and you think "the law" is on your side is flawd.
 * About the "html thing" and the "game thing": I was already half way groggy when making those edits and should have refrained from editing, i apologize for that. To enhance my summary though: The break tags you added were not only unclosed, they were also written in capital letters, both of which is invalid by W3C standard.
 * How would you know what my area of expertise is? I am making those edits because i think it is right and the encyclopedia benefits from them, not to anger anyone. Allthough, you do enrage pretty fast, which is very entertaining after half a bottle of wine. And don't worry, i am not actively searching for pages to change the genre list on, i just do it whenever i happen to get across one of them. Please, though, be aware that i can keep editing this as long as i want, unless i am "officially" being told not to (as official i would consider an RFC/ANI), so no, i will not "please leave them that way".
 * I do think of myself as a constructive person, at least when it comes to editing on wikipedia. While "good" depends on oneselfs point of view, i do only make edits when i truely believe i am improving the things i change. You on the other hand were trying to disgrace a well-written article by adding your derogatory, NPOV-biased, generalized stereo nonsense. So if this is a question of beliefs, who is the constructive one and who isn't?
 * For you: WP:CIVIL, WP:OMGWTFBBQ. You may also want to read up on policies before accusing someone of breaking them.

Please Help
I have an issue which I stated on WP:ANI What do you suggest I do? Thanks for your input.Navnløs 19:45, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I would suggest you read the answers that people have already written. I don't deal with issues that can be and have been dealt with by anyone else. Stifle (talk) 20:00, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, with all due respect, I have requested for a comment, but I don't knwo what happens now or how to even go about finding out what to do...and as I looked at the talk page for requesting comments, I see that not only does it seem like no one can figure out what to do, but that even when they do it correctly the bot doesn't follow through or nothing happens. It doesn't seem like anybody knows how to ask for help on wikipedia and this is a huge problem, in my opinion.  Unless you have a serious issue they just want you to go the WP:RfC pages and apparently not get anything done.  I am obviously frustrated with this.Navnløs 20:12, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Nvm, it seems the bot kicked in. I'm still not sure where people are supposed to comment, though.Navnløs 20:16, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You haven't listed any request for comment that I can find (unless you did it while not logged in). Requests for comment/User conduct has full instructions but if you are still having problems please let me know and I'll try to help. Stifle (talk) 16:43, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Sabbat(jap) logo.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Sabbat(jap) logo.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 18:37, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Death Metal
Looks can be deceiving... ;) Cheers, A Sniper 16:37, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Ha. I have helped maintain the Death and MC pages for probably a couple of years. I have done a lot of revisions and work on the Death page for personal reasons. I also only write about what I know, as you probably do. By the way, if you're going to edit the quote from the opening paragraph of the Death page, please do the same over at the Possessed page as it quotes from the same writer at Allmusic.com (the 'godfathers of death metal' quote). Thanks & Best wishes, A Sniper 16:53, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Cool with me - let's keep each other in mind. Now & then I troll around the death metal pages (I mean other than merely taking care of the Death & Schuldiner pages) and if I see something that requires imput, I shall call on you. Normally, as you could see, I'm dealing with history/religion and other pages, and I stay away from music pages...but this is something I know from being there, and hence I want the truth to be enshrined. Cheers, A Sniper 17:06, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Hey: upon re-reading one of your notes, I'm a bit confused - did you WANT to edit out the Allmusic.com reference to Schuldiner or not? You reverted the entire edit, including the references, so that is why I'm mentioning it. As I said, this is the same source used in the opening paragraph of the Possessed page, which is the only reason I used it. A Sniper 17:10, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Cool - if you don't mind then, I'll return the references, noting that you & me discussed this issue. Cheers, A Sniper 17:16, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

My talk page
Buddy, if you have concerns with another editor don't put it on my talk page - go speak to him directly. Scar ian Talk  23:55, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay after reading through that paragraph on my talk page:
 * "he/ she was making unneccesary edits in abundance..." - Incorrect. Refuted by another user. And I also know for a fact that this user does not make unnecessary edits. Quite the contrary.
 * "No consensus has been reached on the comma break vs. the line break issue..." There does not need to be a general overall consensus. It can purely depend on an individual article basis.
 * "Not to mention, almost all metal band pages use the format of the line break between genres in the music infobox..." - Does not give your argument any extra weight per above.
 * I hope this clears things up for you. Scar ian  Talk  00:10, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Re:Greetings
I'm not sure where you saw one of my comments but it's probably from the Wintersun page I think. I have a few questions for your comment: You are searching for people with knowledge of metal for what reason? I'm a bit confused by your last sentence. You will provide a third opinion to my comments? Favor as in I give a third opinion? I just want to get this straight. And by the way, I'm all for the instead of the comma. I think you're right that is more professional and the album project page clearly states this: "Below is a basic guide to writing an article on a specific album of music; this is only a guide and you should feel free to personalize an article as you see fit, though others may change it to fit our standards." That means it's ONLY a guideline! I think people should leave it alone. Whatever was first used for a page should be the way it looks. --CircafuciX 02:08, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

uhh... sry didn't even notice there was a Re:Greetings topic lol. whatever then. --CircafuciX 04:41, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I understand, so anytime when either of us may need help with a subject or etc we would see if we can help each other. Got it and btw where did you find me? --CircafuciX 19:40, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Genre layouts
Just because you think line breaks look neater, doesn't mean they should be used in articles, there's no justification to change them - they're perfectly fine with commas. Funeral 20:54, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * "I use the line break as I believe it looks better." - WP:POV You don't get it, do you? There's no reason to go round changing commas to line breaks, like you've been doing to Iron Maiden, Led Zeppelin, AC/DC etc. etc. There is no concensus as you know, so why change them? Wikipedia isn't about what you think looks nice. Funeral 21:01, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * "So, I protect the pages against unneccesary edits and vandalism." - No, you troll articles with your WP:POV. Give me a valid encyclopaedic reason to use line breaks instead of commas. "They were here longer" isn't encyclopaedic, neither is "I think they look neater". There are plenty of articles currently using line breaks, I don't change them to commas; stop changing articles which are perfectly fine as they are to what you think is better. Funeral 21:09, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I have no problem with using line breaks, however, you've unnecessarily changed commas to line breaks in Guns N' Roses, Led Zeppelin, AC/DC etc. with no reason to, that's why I've reverted them. I know there are lots of articles which use line breaks, but I don't change them to commas - that would be POV pushing. Funeral 21:16, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

WP:ANI
You may want to take a look at the result of your AN/I request, as it has been marked as resolved. Tiptoety 00:19, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

RE: Hello
Please excuse my abstinence. I had to be at a reading regarding my education yesterday, followed by a Microsoft release press conference, which pretty much left me no choice but to drink myself to sleep. Anyway, i'm glad you're enjoying yourself and not taking it too seriously as well. Keep in mind though, that inactivity does not mean that most people think like you do. If you watch the discussion (can't remember where it was right now, can't go look either as my boss could be walking in on me and i should stop wikiing) you will find that while there is too much of a wreck to find consensus, the majority takes side for commas and those who are for line breaks have not one argument except "it looks pretty!". In Flames is listed as borderline because i consider them to be too versatile to be categorized as "metal", but the whole categorization is trivial anyway. ~ | twsx | talkcont | 08:47, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I was browsing by and had to reply to this comment. I really don't think "the majority takes side for commas". Most infoboxes use line breaks. Just look for a random non music infobox and you'll see, line breaks are generally used (company, actor, planet, and many other infoboxes). Kameejl (Talk) 14:48, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Commas/Line breaks
I appreciate your words from before. - That didn't sit too swell with me. There is no such thing as a "rebellion" and you certainly don't need to "break" anyone. It's only Wikipedia! :-) Scar ian  Talk  22:35, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Good! Star Wars is wonderful :-) Have a great day! Scar ian  Talk  22:39, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

FYI
FYI this edit wasn't vandalism. Read WP:VAN to learn what vandalism is. Your "vandalism" edit made a spelling correction (Thrash metal is not an "American only" topic and should use International English spelling of words IE: Characterised is the correct spelling everywhere in the world escept the U.S.) Your "vandalism" edit correctly added wikilinks... moved a section into proper chronilogical order... and deleted 2 very UGLY paragraphs that are oozing with unreferenced original research (see WP:CITE and WP:ATT) and also push WP:NPOV to the limit. Your reversion returned the article to a lower quality than it was prior to your rv. Try reading those policy links. They will help you understand Wikipedia better. While you're reading those... read WP:AWW too... it's also a good policy. Good luck. 156.34.228.22 22:51, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * As I said before... the edit removed 2 paragraphs of uncited cruft and junk. It's an encyclopedia, not an 11 year olds book report. Try and read some Featured articles and learn about encyclopedic prose vs. POV fanboyisms. A simple rule is... adjectives need references. If the text conveys even the most remote of opinion.. it needs a valid reference from a reliable source.(See WP:RS) Websites like metal-archives and rockdetector and such are not good places to seek citations as those sites are aimed at the "lowest common denominator" of heavy metal fan. Good references come from books and pro publications. Not amateur fanzines and webzines. It's those sorts of differences that can turn a horrible article... like the current condition of the Thrash metal article... into a reliable source of information. I used to have an account and had over 20000 edits on Wikipedia. I have been involved with several featured article pushes. But I determined long ago that user accounts are useless unless one desires to be an admin... which I don't. So I rejected my username and decided to edit under the true essence of what Wikipedia is all about... the purity of anonymous editing. I have contributed well over 20000 edits as an IP and I have built onto several more featured articles. I have a static IP when I am at work. And that IP has been awarded several Barnstars for editing, vandal hunting, mentoring and stewarship. I will never go back to using a fairytale username again. It's the opposite of what Wikipedia is all about. "The encyclopedia anyone can edit". You will find that getting in touch with me is easier than you think. I do have a talk page. Sometimes they are temporary depending on when our proxy servers refresh. But my Static IP is easy to find. If you have any questions don't hesititate to ask. 156.34.228.22 01:06, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Following on from what he said, usually, any anon that [I'm talking about the one who edited the Thrash Metal article] knows how to add an [EDIT: After actually look for an IPA tag I have no idea what it is and I don't know if it even exists...?!] tag probably isn't a vandal. Not unless they're a super smart vandal. Is it okay if I take a look over your edits from time to time? If you need any help please don't hesitate to ask myself too. Mr. I.P. and I live in different time zones so it might be easier for you :-) Take care Scar ian  Talk  08:38, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well that's great seeing as I have absolutely no opinion on it at all. Thanks for letting me keep an eye out [P.S. Always try and use edit summaries as it helps keep everything transparent for other editors]. Scar ian  Talk  17:53, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Something that might help: Click on My Preferences at the top of the page. You should see a row of buttons, click on Editing, at the bottom of that check list it should say: "Prompt me..." - Click on that. Hope that helps :-) Scar ian  Talk  18:14, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I will answer Scarian's question re: IPA templates since he is probably eavesdropping here anyways :D . An IPA template is used for phonetic pronounciation of words. When you click edit you will notice lots of shortcuts at the botton of your edit window... including the IPA template shortcut. The IP that edited the Thrash article made perfectly good edits to try and improve the article... but likely clicked the IPA shortcut at the bottom by mistake when he went to save page. Then Mr Navlos came along... incorrectly identified perfectly valid edit as vandalism and re-added all the unreferenced foolishness that the IP was trying to clear out of there. Mr Navlos... as far as I can see has not undone his blunder and the article still sits in worse condition then it was in before Mr Navlos made his rv goof-up. In proper Wikipedia good faith (See WP:AGF) I will wait another day for Mr Navlos to correct his error. But if it sits too long I will rv the article back to the better version myself.... minus the {IPA} shortcut... of course. 156.34.142.110 18:22, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Or... Scarian... thats a nudge to you to rv back the version previous to Navlos' foul-up... :D . 156.34.142.110 18:25, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The things that the IP took out were valid removals and should be removed again. Read WP:ATT, WP:NPOV, WP:CITE and WP:AWW and you'll see what I mean. The IP moved 1 paragraph into proper chronological order... and then removed 2 utterly stupid paragraphs. Not only are these albums considered classics today, they were also commercial high points for all of the aforementioned artists. ????... While progressive structures and technicality had been part of thrash prior to this, the year 1990 in particular began to show the genre going in a decidedly more technical direction, with less emphasis on the genre's original punk influence and more emphasis on musicianship and a progressive structure. ????? Albums such as Megadeth's United Abominations and Overkill's Immortalis] show that older thrash bands still manage to achieve commercial success without altering much their classic thrash sound ?????.... PLEEEASE!... a retarded 11 years writes crap like that. Original research with no hint of a reference. All that junk needs to be RE-removed from the article before any attempts to improve it are taken any further. 156.34.142.110 18:47, 31 October 2007 (UTC)