User talk:NeilN/Archive 45

Amdmustafa
Neil, could you take a look at this user's edits on Madurai Airport. According to them discussing on talk page to resolve disputes implies restoring their version of the edit. I did request for a full protection of the article, but I think that may not be required. I am in the midst of something right now and have little time to create a report at ANEW. &mdash;  LeoFrank  Talk 16:08, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – May 2018
News and updates for administrators from the past month (April 2018). Administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg None
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Chochopk • Coffee • Gryffindor • Jimp • Knowledge Seeker • Lankiveil • Peridon • Rjd0060

Guideline and policy news
 * The ability to create articles directly in mainspace is now indefinitely restricted to autoconfirmed users.
 * A proposal is being discussed which would create a new "event coordinator" right that would allow users to temporarily add the "confirmed" flag to new user accounts and to create many new user accounts without being hindered by a rate limit.

Technical news
 * AbuseFilter has received numerous improvements, including an OOUI overhaul, syntax highlighting, ability to search existing filters, and a few new functions. In particular, the search feature can be used to ensure there aren't existing filters for what you need, and the new  function can be used when checking multiple namespaces. One major upcoming change is the ability to see which filters are the slowest. This information is currently only available to those with access to Logstash.
 * When blocking anonymous users, a cookie will be applied that reloads the block if the user changes their IP. This means in most cases, you may no longer need to do /64 range blocks on residential IPv6 addresses in order to effectively block the end user. It will also help combat abuse from IP hoppers in general. This currently only occurs when hard-blocking accounts.
 * The block notice shown on mobile will soon be more informative and point users to a help page on how to request an unblock, just as it currently does on desktop.
 * There will soon be a calendar widget at Special:Block, making it easier to set expiries for a specific date and time.

Arbitration
 * The Arbitration Committee is seeking additional clerks to help with the arbitration process.

Obituaries
 * (Craig Franklin) passed away in mid-April. Lankiveil joined Wikipedia on 12 August 2004 and became an administrator on 31 August 2008. During his time with the Wikimedia community, Lankiveil served as an oversighter for the English Wikipedia and as president of Wikimedia Australia.

Discuss this newsletter

Subscribe

Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:05, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Factchecker atyourservice
The user is out of control. They received an official notification about DS in American politics, but continue willingly making violations and assaulting other contributors. Should they be reported to WP:AE? I am not familiar with previous editing by this contributor, but their current behavior probably deserves an indefinite block. My very best wishes (talk) 14:56, 2 May 2018 (UTC)


 * I cop to reverting a reinstatement of disputed material although I think the policy arguments are pretty one-sided in favor of trimming and attributing the claim, at minimum. It was more than 24 hours (purely by accident) but it was definitely a re-trimming of something another editor had restored to its fuller form.
 * I don't cop to "assaulting" other users. The comment on SPECIFICO's talk page was simply retaliation in response to a pointless series of unprovoked personal snipes culminating in "I will pray for you on Sunday", that served no other purpose than to express SPECIFICO's views that I am a bad editor. And as per usual with this user and User:BullRangifer, they were dressed up as encyclopedia-related comments in an effort to provoke an angry response while still providing a (flimsy) pretext for insulting me.
 * As for the competence accusations against Bull, I really don't know. Is that a PA?  I didn't say anything about Bull, I talked about the arguments he was making.  Was I wrong in some way?  Am I not supposed to say another editor's comments or editing lack competence?  Fact checker _ at your service  15:11, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Enough. Any more and you're looking at a topic ban or block. --Neil N  talk to me 15:48, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * May I sit an make idiotic personal attacks on my talk page the same way User:BullRangifer continues to snidely and stupidly insist that I read "junk sources" (such as Infowars and Russia Today) in comments unequivocally directed at me?
 * Is that what I deserve for trying to cite real grown-up sources only to be shouted at dishonestly, with no effort to even pretend the accusation was honest?
 * Why don't I see any topic ban threats or block threats on Bull's page? Fact checker _ at your service  16:05, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * You can bring up that diff at your appeal if you're blocked/topic banned to show how you're being unfairly treated. I suspect it won't gain much traction. --Neil N  talk to me 16:12, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Why is it that you are taking the initiative to threaten me but not Bull?
 * I tried to talk about New York Times, I got insulted endlessly about Infowars. I tried to talk about it on Jimbo page, I got insulted more about Infowars.  I came back weeks later with endless sourcing showing that all the top mainstream RS's present the view I was talking about, I get even more insults about Infowars.  I complain about it, I get an admin saying he's going to block me without even forcing the other user to apply for me to be blocked, yet when I point out Bull's behavior, your response is ANI is thataway. Even though you explicitly admit you have the power to do these things.
 * Oh did I mention he's been doing this for well over a year in a naked effort to insult and drive away editors he doesn't like?
 * For pure humor value, take a look at the diff of Bull removing New York Times commentary a year ago because he didn't like it. Hey, obviously the opinions on journalistic integrity by the executive editor of the New York Times must be UNDUE, right?  Yeah he's a fringe nutjob, what does the executive editor of the New York Times know about journalistic integrity?  Fact checker _ at your service  16:40, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Holy crap! Admin User:Neutrality reverted you, not me. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 19:13, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Factchecker, I know you were told to stay off of BR's talk page. Yet you keep pinging him. Seems like that kind of defeats the purpose. --MelanieN (talk) 16:38, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Maybe if he didn't make new personal attacks against me multiple times a day? Fact checker _ at your service  16:40, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * So it's your opinion that any time he makes any generic comment about problem editors, he is actually making a specific personal attack on you? Making it OK for you to attack him by name via ping? I'm just trying to understand your thinking here. --MelanieN (talk) 16:56, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * To be fair, the recent stuff there is not much doubt who they are referring to. PackMecEng (talk) 17:00, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * don't be obtuse. You're not helping anything.  You didn't want to talk about real sources, you didn't want to talk about article content, you explicitly said you refused to work with me, now all of a sudden you're here to participate in admin action against me?  Please.  Go home.   Fact checker _ at your service  17:01, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I really do wish you would have done anything to referee that content dispute, find a way to achieve consensus on reflecting what sources have said about the public evidence while still reflecting that Mueller's investigation is underway and hasn't revealed its own evidence. That is why it's so galling to me now that you're showing up in helpful-kinda-involved-admin sort of way regarding the alleged need to block me, after you abdicated being an involved admin on this content dispute that goes right to the core of WP:V presentation of the dossier's main accusation.  Fact checker _ at your service  17:32, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you should take on board that two different helpful-kinda-involved-admins have raised this type of issue with you in the last week alone. --Neil N  talk to me 17:51, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, you're diligently performing your duties like reminding me of other people's right to insult me, and protecting those same people from insults by proactively threatening to block me for responding. After all, discretionary sanctions have very high standards of conduct for certain users and not others.
 * Meanwhile, the real work, the important business of ignoring RS fact sourcing for the last 15 months, continues. I mean it's only been a year+ straight that the news agencies have been reporting no public evidence of collusion, surely that's not as important as reflecting the latest uncorroborated anti-Trump news report that other news agencies have specifically noted was uncorroborated and which appears to have prompted Mueller's office to release a statement warning about false reports first thing the next business day.  Obviously the latter is of searing importance and must be reflected NOWNOWNOW but the former not so much, eh?


 * Just as importantly, an editor who tries to talk about such things must be tag-teamed with abuse and vitriolic essays nonsensically depicting another editor's fantasies about him. Fact checker _ at your service  18:40, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Where would that be? WP:3O? --Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 18:42, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Factchecker, you need to stop making every mention of editors who use or consume unreliable sources about you.

If you are not specifically named, then don't take it personally. It's not an attack, and it's not about you, so don't make it an excuse to "retaliate" (your word) for a perceived (it's in your head) slight.

Unfortunately for you, and like it or not (and I sometimes sense it causes you discomfort), you are a fellow traveler here with editors who unwaveringly defend Trump, and some of them have mentioned and used unreliable sources like Daily Caller, Townhall, Washington Examiner, ZeroHedge, etc. That's not some idle speculation on my part. One even keeps a link library with such sources.

So stop calling every mention a "personal attack" against you, because it isn't. Stop responding, and stop retaliating. I'm not out to get you. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 19:04, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

This is BS belied by the fact that even after I posted on the dossier talk page about sources like NYT/WaPo, you still berated me directly on Jimbo's talk page with a summary version of your attack essay which exploded into being just a few days after I first posted about sourcing problems at the Trump dossier page.

Admittedly, your fringe views and efforts to dump pointless hostility on editors with whom you disagree have obviously evolved over time, although there is obvious similarity to your old userbox in which you fantasized that the people you disagreed with were "partisan POV pushers and, predominantly right-wing, paid political whitewashers (the Koch brothers control many articles)", which, when I confronted you about it, you cited a ThinkProgress press release about "whitewashing Wikipedia", talked about how "right-wingers" were "backed by the big money corporate interests in the USA" went on with various items of partisan nonsense '''("Trump reports confidential information directly to Putin. . . Putin and Trump have plenty of editors working here. Everything happening now is understandable if one sees it as a massive and desperate cover-up operation. Read the dossier and the bricks fall into place.")'''.

A year later your essay reflects a slightly different approach to partisan insult: just shout INFOWARS RUSSIA TODAY when somebody tries to talk about sourcing or POVs you don't like, and eventually they'll get sick of it and go away.

Shout it right in their face even when they are quite obviously talking about high quality RS's! Shout it on Jimbo's talk page to let them know you're referring to them, then if the editor claims you're making false claims about what they read, you turn around and claim that them being mad about it shows that "they self-identify with some of the traits and behaviors mentioned in relation to our policies, they decide to take it personally", which you then claim shows that the totally innocent little essay, which doesn't intentionally refer to the other editor (since that would violate WP:NPA!) but it just soooo happens to prove the point the essay was never intended to make in the first place! Yes, it's all in the other person's head and you can just accuse them of "identifying with such people" when in fact what's happening is that you're shouting INFOWARS at people trying to talk about New York Times and WaPo.

And of course further comments on your talk page about "editors who consume junk sources in real life" does little to dispel the appearance you're not talking about me, nor does your little exchange with SPECIFICO which were in obvious reference to me. I'm sure other such examples abound.

At bottom, this is just a stupid little straw man to berate and shut people up so you don't have to talk about high-quality sourcing you don't like. Fact checker _ at your service 20:05, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * This is the result of your failure to AGF. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 20:14, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * There is no basis for assuming good faith when I post on Jimbo talk page asking a question and you crap all over it with your moronic INFOWARS nonsense.
 * In any case the essay itself literally tells people their "personal POV is based on unreliable sources" if they disagree with the focus of the Trump dossier article, which is dumb because that article has ignored mainstream fact coverage like it was that article's job. So besides the fact that you specifically referenced the essay in response to me, besides being specifically targeted, it's also an obvious personal attack against anybody who disagrees with you on a Trump article.   Fact checker _ at your service  20:15, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * On Jimbo's talk page, you framed the debate one way and framed the debate another way. No one is going to be able to control the terms of the debate unchallenged on such a high profile page. Jimbo did not participate so, move on. --Neil N  talk to me 20:26, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Attributing an experienced editor's good-faith reasoned discussion of his edits to "I don't like it" is a personal attack. It is an undocumented and unsupportable accusion that the editor is knowingly undermining the pillars at the expense of our common purpose° here. This is very disappointing. <b style="color: #0011FF;"> SPECIFICO</b> talk 20:28, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Useless
You should uninvolve yourself in this  Fact checker _ at your service  22:08, 2 May 2018 (UTC)


 * "framed the debate one way"? Knowingly lied through his teeth is more like it. Anticipating your response, I refuse to strike this comment. Fact checker _ at your service  20:50, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I formally request that you either delete the whole talk section above or none of it, rather than simply deleting my comment. Fact checker _ at your service  22:09, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I've closed the above discussion and my closing statement is fairly clear. I've been patient with your attempts to modify the closed discussion and subsequent revert but that patience is evaporating. Move on before you are blocked. This is a formal warning. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 22:16, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Thank you...
...I sincerely appreciate your patience in letting the issues play-out via article TP discussion, and not resorting to a hair-trigger reaction...on either side. I empathize with your position in these highly controversial articles, but I do believe that because of your patience, progress is being made and editors are settling down to discuss things in a collegial manner. Your efforts have not gone unnoticed. Thank you. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 23:14, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

New section
,. <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">-- ψλ  ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">✉ ✓ 02:12, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
 * No idea. I laughed at this, though. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 02:36, 3 May 2018 (UTC)


 * I always wonder if those "Koch"-name inspired editors are from Kansas.
 * As for your link, Neil. Boom! Copying and keeping that one! LOL. --Kansas Bear (talk) 03:01, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Apparently User:SPECIFICO and I are operating that now-blocked editor as a sock. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 05:49, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
 * An editing restriction has now been levied. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 11:50, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Recent block
Hi NeilN. I have never done this but regarding your last block of IP 101.178.163.208, you blocked this IP for 48 hours for edit warring after this post in WP:AN/3, yet I was wondering if you can make it into an indefinite block because apart from the fact that he/she edit-warred and vandalized other articles that were not listed on AN/3 I know for a fact that the IP will continue to edit war and vandalize as soon as his/her block is over. (N0n3up (talk) 12:31, 3 May 2018 (UTC))
 * We don't block IPs indefinitely. I noticed did a long block but was not sure if the same issues persisted. Also, can you please provide some diffs of vandalism? I told the IP not to call good-faith edits vandalism so I'm wondering if you might need the same reminder. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 16:09, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I was speaking out of the fact that the IP once got blocked for one week for block-evasion. And if you check the talk page, you'll see that it's full of admonitions and warnings by other editors and admins, and the IP usually responds with personal attacks as you can see. Again, I didn't want to make this comment on other editors because that's usually not me, but I think there are things that needed to be addressed, and yes I can provide differences of vandalism. (N0n3up (talk) 19:00, 3 May 2018 (UTC))

Unprotect 12 Rules for Life?
You EP'd 12 Rules for Life because of DE, but all the disruptive editors are now blocked. w umbolo  ^^^  21:14, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
 * All the known socks are blocked. I think we can let the protection expire according to schedule. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 21:17, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Cynefin
Hi Neil, would you consider placing Cynefin framework under 30/500 protection as you did at Dave Snowden? There has been long-term disruption at both articles, almost certainly from the same people. SarahSV (talk) 00:47, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks! SarahSV (talk) 03:18, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

A user's twitter
Regarding this, the only reason I knew his Twitter and Facebook was because he apparently linked it to some IP here, and the IP posted it on my talk page, which you can see in the recent diffs. (I don't want to link it here because then I'm linking his Twitter, but you can find it, it's recent.)The Facebook is either linked to the Twitter or uses the same handle and profile pic. And the only reason I mentioned them was because of the appearance of possible source canvassing and off wiki communication, which I was only mentioning to illustrate that he's not being totally straightforward when he claims it's other users who are ideologically blinkered.

Innocent enough mistake but please make sure this is not used as an excuse to run checkuser on my account—because in the above diff, he clearly is suggesting I am trying to hack his account which kind of makes it sound like he is gearing up to request a check user. Fact checker _ at your service 02:00, 4 May 2018 (UTC)


 * I also pinged him to make sure he saw the explanation, I don't think that violates the restriction because it's talking about an issue where he obviously suspects this mass hack was related to me. Fact checker _ at your service  02:06, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Sounds like outing.<b style="color: #0011FF;"> SPECIFICO</b> talk 02:48, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Everyone seriously needs to get a grip here. Some troll gets a list of logins (trivial to do), writes some script that probably tests logging in with common passwords, and some editors think it's personally directed at them or their group. All of them need to realize that this a common hacking technique and most systems won't warn you that a failed login was using your user id (how many times have you fat fingered a password resulting in a failed login?). The only question that should be asked is if the WMF has the proper anti-automated login safeguards in place. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 03:04, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * But there's no jjustification mentioning BRs real life accounts and IP INFO.<b style="color: #0011FF;"> SPECIFICO</b> talk 03:09, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Immediately before seeing this I had just emailed NeilN to request a revdel. I foolishly exposed my Twitter account to a friendly editor, and then a not-so-friendly IP found it and shared it to Factchecker. It should soon be history. There was no form of backchannel contact or other off-wiki coordination/canvassing/whatever. I just tweeted a good quote from that friendly editor and let them know. That was the only time I've ever done that.
 * When I was notified of the attempt to login, I had no idea what was going on, but as soon as I saw that this was affecting myriad editors, I realized it wasn't really directed at me. I never thought of running a checkuser, and what could I use it for? Nothing. I have no interest in such things.
 * BTW, I KNOW I'm biased and have strong POV, so any mention of the biases of others is only that. It's not some sort of denial that I too have biases. I'm very conscious of them and seek to limit their effect on my actual editing. That's the best any of us can do. That's why I like to work with editors who have POV that are opposed to mine. When we can collaborate, the resulting content is much better. We each fill in the gaps caused by our own blind spots and can correct each other. Instead of seeking to block the opposing view, we seek to find a proper way to include it using good sources. This has worked well for me and Wikipedia for many years. Unfortunately, not many editors can work in that manner. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 03:49, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I think somebody may have already done something to the diff but I wasn't sure so I didn't link it. The statement about the appearance of off-Wiki WP discussion and promotion was based on a number of statements and hashtags on the pages which I won't repeat because googling them would locate the page.   I didn't mention anything specific or link the post
 * I only mentioned it because it said a new device (not merely a failed attempt) and because I have never ever received such a message before on WP since notifications began. Fact checker _ at your service  05:25, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Not the least bit convincing. <b style="color: #0011FF;"> SPECIFICO</b> talk 12:20, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * And if this came before the panel at AE it would certainly be considered a violation of FC's ban. <b style="color: #0011FF;"> SPECIFICO</b> talk 12:56, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

User:Dr Geet Sureshbhai Thakkar using user page for pseudo article
Hi Neil, was wondering if you could help me, I’ve had on my radar since last month, amongst other COI editing they were using their talk page as a pseudo article. I warned them and the editing stopped, but they just popped up again and added a lot more stuff to it. I’d suggest draftifying but there’s still the COI issue and I doubt it would pass WP:NOTE. I haven’t come across this before & don’t know where to take this, was hoping you could offer some advice? (apologies but you were the first admin whose talk page showed up on my watch list) '''... Thanks,  CJ [a Kiwi] in    Oz  ''' 13:29, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * That was quick, thanks! ... Thanks,  CJ [a Kiwi] in    Oz   13:44, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi . Any admin should be able to help in this situation. Just look for one who's currently active. I've draftified the page and warned the editor about advertising. If they persist in making similar promo edits to mainspace, let me know. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 13:47, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Will do, thanks again :) ...  CJ [a Kiwi] in    Oz   14:04, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * FYI - on their talk page this time (+ other mainspace edits) ...  CJ [a Kiwi] in    Oz   08:46, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Left a note. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 15:04, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Syria discretionary sanctions?
Violations go to WP:AE or somewhere else? Iirc, these are somewhat different from the other discretionary sanctions.Volunteer Marek (talk) 13:45, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Violations of WP:1RR are reported to WP:ANEW. Please make sure the editor was notified properly (see here) and broke restrictions after being notified before reporting. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 13:51, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * It's not a 1RR violation. It's this kind of crap, where he accuses other editors of "supporting terrorism". I see that you warned him here, that he's got blocked for edit warring on related pages, that he created some attack page which had to be deleted, and that he added some kind of "defamatory content".


 * Basically way past the WP:NOTHERE line AND in a topic covered by discretionary sanctions.Volunteer Marek (talk) 15:27, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * It's a huge waste of Admin time and attention to give little baby steps discipline to obviously disruptive accounts. They all end up getting blocked or banned, but only after 6-12 months of disruption that weakens articles, bleeds editing talent from WP and produces no offsetting benefit whatsoever. This kind of stuff should be blocked on sight. If a 3 day block doesn't do the trick, the next one should be the hammer. What's the harm of a brief wake-up block to test whether they even care about WP? If they do, they'll self-correct afterward. If not, bye-bye. <b style="color: #0011FF;"> SPECIFICO</b> talk 15:59, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * In these cases, post to WP:AN. It's not arbcom enforcement as these sanctions are authorized by the community. I've topic banned the editor for three months. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 16:03, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

LED protected page
Hi. I've been adding more 'history' to the led page and noted two things I wanted to ask about. There is some discrepancy in the history and the side bar invented by... which I don't want to touch for fear of starting some edit war. I assume the locking has to do with credit questions? Or commercial. How should I approach this? The early stuff (until the mid 1950s) are discoveries in electroluminescence, but not the invention of the LED per se.???

Otherwise, the more I fill in the history the more apparent it becomes that much of it (early stuff) should be put in the page on luminescence and linked. Does that ring true? Mwasheim (talk) 17:27, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi . The page was protected because someone out there has been constantly changing IP addresses to do edits like this. Nothing to do with actual content so you're free to edit whatever you want. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 17:33, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer
Semi-protection is needed here. The vandalism started back up again very shortly after you previously semi-protected the page for 1 year. Thanks. 188.191.101.253 (talk) 21:30, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Another year. Thanks for reporting. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 21:34, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * This vandalism is made by a sock named "Nate Speed". Given the 1-3 years of abuse, a LTA page for Nate Speed socks could be helpful, but then... 2A02:C7F:963F:BA00:D9DD:4510:8E63:C964 (talk) 11:20, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Would restoring my edit be a DS violation?
Regarding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Trump%E2%80%93Russia_dossier#Synth_of_"possible_confirmations_of_collusion"

Given that...

• the individual who removed the edit apparently did so reflexively/capriciously for no reason beyond WP:IDONTLIKEIT and proceeded to provide an irrelevant POV about his objections to the article in general, and

• another individual provided a similarly specious objection; and

• I have in good faith solicited additional comments from others but received none

can I reasonably conclude that the edit was removed inappropriately, and restore it (as amended in the talkquote) without fear of running afoul of a DS violation?

Cheers soibangla (talk) 21:49, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * You're saying because YOUDONTLIKE their arguments, you should able to ignore them? No. You made a proposal four hours ago. Wait to see the responses. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 21:57, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Although the edit was removed in the first place because IDONTLIKEIT, and it would be nice if there were immediate remedies available for that, rather than having to go through a protracted defense on TP. It seems to be a subtle form of harassment/vandalism/trolling to me. Oh, well. Cheers. soibangla (talk) 22:09, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Were you around for the epic battles for the heart and soul of Donald Trump (i.e., the lead sentence and lead photo)? If not, you haven't seen protracted discussions. Hey, maybe it's time to update that photo... --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 22:18, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Hey, maybe it's time to update that photo Whenever anyone says that, an angel dies. O3000 (talk) 22:21, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I think that is grounds for a recall... PackMecEng (talk) 22:25, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!
, you're very welcome. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 22:36, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

*Treker & Failed log in attempt
I see that you were involve with blocking *Treker. [ https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:*Treker&oldid=prev&diff=839462324 One of his outgoing attacks was on me]. Also, while I was logged in, I was notified that I had some else attempt and failing to log into my WP account that same day. How can this be reported and check on like sock puppetry? Spshu (talk) 20:40, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
 * It has nothing to do with *Treker. Administrators'_noticeboard --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 20:59, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Trump dossier talk
Grutzi, neutral observer. The Factchecker ID is going from bad to worse on Dossier talk, hatting hither and yon and now it's decided and me are trolls maybe  too, or I forget he may have called him some other name. How very distressing. This is just way way beyond OK, after all your patient warnings. I'm also increasingly concerned this ID is either a juvenile or otherwise not a fully competent user who should be encouraged to continue interacting on these pages. Do we really need to go through AE to calm things down? That article was working through lots of tough issues with reasonable collaboration before recent problems. Ciao. <b style="color: #0011FF;"> SPECIFICO</b> talk 00:58, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * All the reverting and goading by the other side doesn't defuse the situation. Each time he has attempted to add well-sourced content, his edits were reverted, and when he tries to discuss it on the TP it's a frustrating uphill battle. There does appear to be a patterned behavior at Trump-related articles when editors show-up with opposing views; i.e., their edits are reverted, then they are baited/goaded, reverted, baited/goaded again, frustrated by the reverting editors when their questions aren't answered, then the pile-on comes, and when they can't take it anymore and start YELLING with interspersed profanities, it's ho-hi-ho...off to AE we go. There are times when the goad herders may also need to be held accountable. j/s  <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 02:45, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Please, please consider the possibility that your POV is coloring your view of the situation. FAC has been tossing gross personal attacks on numerous pages to the point it looks like they are actually attempting to get banned. Seriously, FAC just called Drmies a troll. We need opposing views. I suggest you concentrate on explaining to FAC that battleground behavior will result in a block -- which will not help your cause. O3000 (talk) 03:12, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

All editors might want to consider using WP:DRN, working with an experienced, independent moderator (backed by admins who will levy sanctions) with the power to remove barbs and insults and the ability to call out editors who avoid answering questions or say their questions haven't been answered when really they don't like the answer. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 05:42, 6 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Excellent idea, NeilN. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 06:16, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Neil, thanks, but we are talking about highly active discussions already attended by multiple admins and editors with 5 and 6 digit edit counts. Hard to see DRN being of use. Besides, by the time any agreement could be forged there, eight new, related news stories will have popped up and discussions will have continued at article talk. O3000 (talk) 12:16, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid I agree. This only highlights why we lose so many capable editors from these American Politics articles month after month. If our volunteer Admins are not comfortable preventing exactly the kind of disruption that is so obviously ban-worthy, it's obvious why ordinary editors shy away. This is exactly the problem DS are intended to remedy. In fact, Admins could block for this kind of behavior even aside from DS. It's not working. Admins are not fulfilling the role that Arbcom delegated to them.  This isn't to say that any single Admin, a volunteer, is obligated to do this or that their personal choice is invalid. The irony is, of course, that Arbcom backs up Admins who are tough enforcers when appeals or "clarifications" are brought to them. <b style="color: #0011FF;"> SPECIFICO</b> talk 12:54, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I'd be careful what you wish for, . If admins were freer with topic bans and blocks, a few more would be coming your way. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 13:05, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * You are free to discuss anything you wish with me NeilN. I doubt you could back that up with anything that holds water. And so you, in your Admin frock, have just cast WP:ASPERSIONS just like a common user to get this snide rise out of me. Not your best moment. If you think there's any comparison between my contributions to this project and Factcheckers, you are free to document it and expose just how willing you are to go off half-cocked. And "a few more"? I don't recall any bans or blocks for years now. Not since a bunch of now site-banned users trolled me as a newbie and I didn't understand how your internet really works. But bottom line is your deflection only further illustrates your disinclination to execute the powers vested in you. <b style="color: #0011FF;"> SPECIFICO</b> talk 13:14, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Neil's correct in his assessment, so is Atsme. You've been just as bad as the editor you're pointing fingers at.  Surely you already know this and are now just deflecting, yourself...right? <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">-- ψλ  ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">✉ ✓ 13:39, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Most recently: Only one editor (you) had to have their entire statement removed at AYW's ARCA request and your squirrels/nuts comment did not go unnoticed either. You may think these incidents don't "hold water" but editors who have been previously sanctioned have held the same attitude. Admins are well aware that some editors on both sides are constantly poking at each other, hoping to cause a reaction. Some do it more civilly, saying they have clean hands and are editing neutrally, but the purpose is fairly clear. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 13:45, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * NeilN, that's another unsupportable aspersion that's supposed to imply exactly what? My comment was removed by a clerk because I cited AE and Arbcom threads without copying the hyperlinks to those threads. This is documented on the clerk's talk page where I respectfully inquired and he respectfully answered my concern. I chose not to appeal his action or to make any issue of it because soon after I posted that,  made the same points but included the hyperlinks. So your point here is what? That failure to include hyperlinks is somehow the equivalent of the longstanding behavior of Factchecker? Or what? You seem to be unable to disengage your personal disappointment that I and other users, seeing your apparent desire to patrol and be involved in this difficult Politics area, find your performance lacking.  But as I said at the outset -- we're all volunteers here and nobody has any claim on you to exercise any authority that's beyond your time commitment, your personal temperament, or your personal understanding.  You could simply have stated your disinclination to act on this without launching a series of disparaging remarks that appear to show either lack of knowledge or lack of concern as to the facts and details of which you speak. And really, Neil, a silly comment about squirrels or any of 100 other commiseration on a colleague's talk page is hardly worth mentioning alongside the longstanding disruption and POV pushing by a dozen editors on articles you appear to patrol but with no evident improvement to show for your efforts. You can do much much better than this. I know. I've seen you do better in the past. Throwing out half truths, unsupported disparagement, and false equivalences is not what we expect of Admins on this site. I suggest you take a breather from this topic area and reflect. <b style="color: #0011FF;"> SPECIFICO</b> talk 23:41, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * A perfect example of the first axiom of adminship. And I'm pretty happy that you and certain other editors find my performance lacking. If you didn't, I suspect I'd be dealing with accusations of bias and favoritism much more frequently and with good reason. Shaking your head and expressing concern isn't going to do much here. Editors posting about a behavioral issue will almost always frame the situation in the best/worst light possible. I look beyond the surface and often find there's more to the situation. FCAYS is no shrinking violet and in this case they gave just as good as they got. If they're sanctioned for that, then I'd expect the next request from the "opposite side" would be to look at Drmies' edit. It's not about your past contributions; it's how you're contributing to the topic area now. If there are issues, then your past history is considered when determining an appropriate sanction. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 00:34, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't have much patience for admin cases so I wouldn't be filing any counter-actions. I also think a large number of requests for admin sanctions regarding user conduct relate more to butthurtness over content disputes than anything truly warranting intervention.
 * I would like to go back on Wikibreak. My hope was to walk away from the dossier article some time back.  I had expected the stuff I wrote to be hacked up, rewritten, and caveated but not rejected outright.  Given the extraordinary loose practices regarding selection of sources and material that are prevalent at the article, and the tolerance for any kind of loose paraphrasing that makes claims sound more sensational than their sourcing does, I don't see what argument can be made that none of the fact sourcing or sourced POVs I wrote up belongs in the article—the sourcing is, frankly, vastly better than what is typical for the article, and the writing more neutral.
 * Nonetheless, I don't want to argue about it for months and endure the abuse (and I do mean abuse, not pushback on content arguments, e.g. creating a sock to taunt me "BTW congrats in advance on your topic ban"). It's bad enough to have to deal with the weird gaslighting nonsense that User:SPECIFICO seems to favor, without also having to deal with what I can only describe as a Friday night drunk admin tantrum from Drmies, whose only purpose is to tell me off—the idea apparently being to "improve the article" by encouraging me to go away.  Fact checker _ at your service  04:18, 7 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Neil, this has nothing to do with bias, favoritism, MelanieN's law, or whatever other irrelevant excuse you make to avoid taking responsibility for your own actions here.  I came here with a simple concern about Factchecker. I made no demand you do anything in particular. I just poked to see whether you were prepared to do something about this ID's long pattern of behavior so that we could all avoid an otherwise inevitable trip to AE.
 * So if this made no sense or if you simply didn't feel like doing anything today, you could simply have said as munch in one sentence like "no thanks". Or you could have ignored my message entirely. OK. But instead you launched into a string of false and misleading disparagement of me that keeps on getting bigger with each time you post and it doesn't look like you're done with it yet. And so instead of this thread being a simple and straightforward request and reply, you have decided to turn it into this long convoluted and personal exchange.
 * I want to be sure I'm understanding what you mean when you say It's not about your past contributions; it's how you're contributing to the topic area now. If there are issues, then your past history is considered when determining an appropriate sanction. -- What are you referring to? Are you doubling down on the false and disparaging personal smear you made against me when you wrote If admins were freer with topic bans and blocks, a few more would be coming your way? If there is some other meaning, please clarify it, because it looks like each time you've posted in this thread you've gone off the deep end, with whataboutism, deflection, half-truth, and disparagement. You dig yourself in deeper instead of focusing on any appropriate or constructive response. <b style="color: #0011FF;"> SPECIFICO</b> talk 07:29, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure which is more ironic, you citing WP:COMPETENCE and demanding behavioral sanctions against me because you don't like what high-quality fact sources say, or you calling me a "juvenile" and demanding behavioral sanctions against me after you made one of the most childish and essentially undisguised displays of trolling I've ever seen on Wikipedia (that conversation at the Trump dossier page and its spillover onto your talk page).
 * If you're going to file some baseless admin case against me, as your recent forum-shopping overtures to another admin suggest, be a pal and do it now because I don't plan to log in to Wikipedia every day just to see if you're trying to get me blocked. Fact checker _ at your service  23:58, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Everybody is half-right. Because, everyone is at fault. Think I’ll go find something to edit. O3000 (talk) 13:56, 6 May 2018 (UTC)


 * That editor called me a troll, but I called them a partisan hack, with some reason, I think. Hey, everybody in this thread besides Specifico and NeilN, what are you all doing here? Are y'all trying to turn every single page into Talk:Trump? Leave them alone. You don't have an inherent right to comment here, and all of you are dragging this tripe all over the project (I wonder what's on my talk page today...). Let them talk. Sure it concerns you, but that doesn't mean you get to interrupt. Drmies (talk) 14:12, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Pssst...Drmies...scroll up to the section Please help. Where were you then SMirC-sad.svg? What about the many other times I've been piled-on by the same few editors? With all due respect - you also called him an enormously myopic whiner in that same paragraph. The discussion was hatted as it should have been. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 15:38, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * What a bullshit chastisement. I don't give a fig about any of this in relation to Trump, I'm betting Atsme doesn't, either.  I'm also betting that, like me, Atsme only cares about NPOV at all articles, not just at those with article subjects we happen to like or agree with politically.  Which is exactly how I've been approaching every edit I make at politically-related articles and their associated talk pages.  I know that at least two of you haven't demonstrated same on more than one occasion.  That you would even suggest Trump partisanship is inspiration for us commenting here - when nothing in our comments suggests that in the slightest - only highlights your own bias.  Shame on you. We've been harassed and goaded and reverted endlessly for bogus reasons at a number of these in-common articles.  Of course we have a right to voice our thoughts here.  The attempt to silence is noted. <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">-- ψλ  ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">✉ ✓ 14:43, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * This is the second time you've come up on my radar screen in the last couple of days, after a long period of not noticing you at all. Perhaps you're a little freer with your aggressive comments because you haven't been blocked in a whole year, but if you keep it up, I can fix that. If you don't have anything helpful to say, as here, go somewhere else.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:54, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Now I'm intrigued. What have I said or done that's blockable, something that's disruptive where blocking is appropriate per policy and would not be punitive? <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">-- ψλ  ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">✉ ✓ 14:58, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Winkelvi, which part of "you all" did not understand? I meant all of you, not just the Trump supporters or whatever. Before you get on that high horse again, maybe you should consider your blood pressure, and your own bias: you simply read what you want to read. I have on more than one occasion told all of you (YOU TRUMP EDITORS, FOR FUCK'S SAKE, ALL OF YOU) that you are making this a nasty place to work, but your nonsense is worse than that of others. Atsme, "please help"? You really think I want to help you all with your ("y'all's"--let me throw in the explicit plural in case Winkelvi gets all self-righteous again) self-created problems? I will jump in for the benefit of the project, not to support this or that editor. "Piled on"--I don't know if you were or not, this is not a schoolyard. I bet you that the moment you dial it down and become less omnipresent, you will find yourself in calmer waters. Goes for a bunch of you. As far as "with all respect", yes I called him that, and I think he's not the only one: there's way too many of you whining all over the place, and there's some on both sides (I'm playing my Trump card, of course), but there are some that are worse than others, and some that are more myopic than others. Drmies (talk) 15:51, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * And therein lies part of the problem: negatively labeling and lumping editors into the category "Trump editors". If that's not problematic and indicative of bias, I don't know what is. <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">-- ψλ  ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">✉ ✓ 16:30, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * This speech does you no credit. Fact checker _ at your service  03:54, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Drmies, I took my BP pills, so I'm good to go. Just wanted to point out that whenever an article is imbalanced and riddled with obvious NPOV issues, any reviewer/copyeditor worth their salt is going to try to fix it, no matter the topic. Unfortunately, quite a few qualified editors will not edit political articles because they can be highly controversial when NPOV and OWN are part of the equation and feel it's a lost cause, per this example. We shouldn't blame attempts to fix such articles on the editors who are trying to fix them. Of course such editors appear to have a POV; for Pete's sake, the reason they're editing the article in the first place is because of the POV issues that already exist - and that's how editors are incorrectly labeled as pro-whatever when it is clearly not deserved. I also understand that measures need to be taken to stop disruptive editors, but as a member of WP:WikiProject Editor Retention, I'm also trying to do what I can in that department while at the same time being one of the editors occupying the same foxholes as the editors in question. I don't want to see any editor blocked or TB as the result of baiting/goading/total frustration. What I'd rather see is an attempt by all to get along but that counts for both sides of a dispute, regardless of the topic. I truly believe that if both sides received the same warnings from our trusted admins, they will try harder at peaceful collaboration. I believe NeilN has been among the fairest of admins I've encountered...I may not have agreed with him 100% of the time, but I believe he does his best to be fair. Drmies, I also appreciate your concern about allowing an editor to have a one-on-one discussion with an admin without interference - that's all I've ever wished for but have not experienced to this day - and not once did another admin step in to encourage a one on one discussion - which is why I pointed you to the one above. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 17:39, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

I think it's time for a lesson about NPOV from MastCell and Drmies.

I get the feeling that the following statement (from above) is a special pleading by Atsme that she, and other editors who share her pro-Trump POV on Trump-Russia subjects, are all somehow innocent and only "appear to have a POV" (and thus any POV issues), and that they are "incorrectly" and "undeservedly" labeled as pro-Trump:


 * "Of course such editors appear to have a POV; for Pete's sake, the reason they're editing the article in the first place is because of the POV issues that already exist - and that's how editors are incorrectly labeled as pro-whatever when it is clearly not deserved."

Frankly, I don't know of any editors on political articles who don't have a POV which must be reined in, and some do it better than others. (IMO, anyone who doesn't have a political POV is a very uninformed person who is just existing.) Anyone who claims innocence has lost credibility. Our job as editors is to keep our POV from influencing our editing, and that may not always be easy. We all have blind spots, so editors who hold opposing POV need each other. (FYI, I know exactly where I stand on the left side of the political spectrum. I'm not some "neutral" dummy.)

Remember that NPOV states that content should be written "as far as possible, without editorial bias". Note that word "editorial". It's important. Our sources, and thus content, may have a bias, and editors should faithfully document what a source says with its bias. We document biases here. It is "editorial" bias which is forbidden.

MastCell and Drmies recently had a very instructive discussion with Atsme and Emir of Wikipedia on MastCell's talk page. (I trust they'll correct me if I get this wrong.) There they explained in detail how what appears to be an anti-Trump bias at Wikipedia is not such, but just a faithful, NPOV, documentation of Trump's words and actions. I'll pick out a few choice quotes, and I hope others will read the whole thread, because it was excellent:


 * MastCell: "I'm going to put this out there for you to consider: it may be that there is no way to describe some of the things Trump does without sounding, as you put it, "disparaging". He bragged to a reporter about sexually assaulting women with impunity. How do you propose we say that without sounding "negative" or "disparaging"? He defended a violent neo-Nazi mob as containing "some very fine people", and drew a moral equivalence between them and anti-Nazi protesters. How do we say that in a way that meets your definition of neutrality? He publicly begged the Russian government to hack and release the emails of his political opponent. And stereotyped Mexican immigrants as "rapists and murderers". He mocked a disabled reporter and the family of a US Army officer killed in combat. He's routinely dishonest, and promotes easily disprovable falsehoods, to a degree that is unprecedented even by modern political standards. None of these things are my opinion. All of them are facts reported by numerous reliable sources. If someone's words and actions frequently reflect negatively on them, that is not evidence that Wikipedia has a bias. Nor is it evidence that the mainstream media, or reliable sources, have a bias. I wish you (and others) would stop treating it as such." (My emphasis)


 * Emir of Wikipedia: "... or did you just want to write that big paragraph attacking Trump?"


 * MastCell: "See, this is the kind of reflexive, unthinking silliness that I was trying to put my finger on. I'm not "attacking" Trump. I'm listing a number of things he's done—undisputedly, really, actually done—and asking Atsme how she would propose we cover those in what she considers a "neutral" fashion. I think that's a useful exercise, because it gets at the distinction between biased editing and accurate descriptions of a person's (negatively perceived) actions. If you choose to view it in starker battleground terms—as me "attacking" Donald Trump—then that's your prerogative, I guess." (My emphasis)


 * Drmies: "See, Emir of Wikipedia, that's the thing--that big fat paragraph contains nothing but factual statements. You want to call that negative, you can--but that's not MastCell being negative. It's kind of like someone complaining about the weather report because it reports rain, rain, rain, when it's raining, raining, raining."


 * Atsme: (long comment)


 * MastCell: "As for being "anti-whatever", the problem (as I've tried to touch on above) is that you seem to consider anything that reflects negatively on Donald Trump to constitute "anti-[Trump] fodder" and to argue to downplay it on those grounds."


 * (Here MastCell accurately describes what seems to be Atsme's mission at Wikipedia, at least in regard to Trump and Russia, but likely not for other subjects. I say "seems to be", because all we can go by is her actions, not what she says. She claims to edit in an NPOV manner, but her actions say otherwise.)

My point is that MastCell and Drmies are both VERY right. An NPOV description of many of Trump's statements and actions will seem to be anti-Trump, when in fact that is the only NPOV way to portray them.

When editors with a pro-Trump POV censor, or otherwise try to tweak (or even worse to delete) such content, they seem to invariably violate NPOV, and their discussions to further those aims are long and disruptive. That's not good, especially since they feel they are editing in an NPOV manner. They portray themselves as innocent, while putting all the blame on editors who are skeptical of Trump, claiming they are "anti-Trump", as is done above. Well, these pro-Trump editors have mistaken notions about NPOV. An NPOV description will often portray Trump in a negative light. It will, and should, seem anti-Trump. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 22:12, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Weird, same seems to apply if you change the label you are applying to people to anti-Trump editors. #TheResistance PackMecEng (talk) 22:28, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * LOL! Yes, in principle it can, if RS allowed that, but they don't for Trump. With his words and actions, they just aren't on his side, and an NPOV manner of describing his words and actions will usually appear to be anti-Trump. MastCell and Drmies are right. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 22:49, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The issue I was kind of joking about with that is not about media bias (real or perceived). It is about applying labels to people, in this case pro vs anti Trump. That is a major problem, and leads to issue with collaboration. It is easy to discount the "other" as always pushing a POV or wrong. Just a side note, I am not trying to imply anyone here is one camp or the other or that anyone here is doing that. It is a more broad overview of issues editors may have in this area. PackMecEng (talk) 22:56, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * PackMecEng, thanks for making that point. It's a valid one. What's sad is that we can't recognize each other's various pro- anti- POV without seeing it as bad. The polarization in American society reaches into Wikipedia. That's really sad. For me there is no problem with this when it doesn't prevent collaborative editing. When it does, then difficulties arise. Fortunately I can occasionally find pro-Trump editors who can still edit collaboratively with me. They succeed in doing what can be difficult for any editor, and that is to keep their personal POV from violating PAG. That is possible. I'm always conscious of this, and when (not "if") I fail, please alert me. I'll thank you for it. What are friends for? Right? -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 03:46, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Quite frankly, BR, your obsessive behavior and relentless attempts to discredit me have become quite worrisome. It is also representative of your patterned behavior at Trump-related articles - cherrypicking whatever supports your POV, and censoring the rest.  How many TP are you planning to post my discussion with MastCell and Drmies?  Well, Drmies...what was that you were saying about an editor being able to discuss things with an admin one on one?  BR is now hawking my edits and making his presence known on articles he never edits...like he did today at this fish article.  This is the kind of baiting behavior that editors who are far less patient than I end up responding to, resulting in a TB, block or worse. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 23:03, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Neil, Drmies, I for one will make an unqualified apology for anything that I’ve contributed to this morass that wastes admin time. And for what mud I might contribute in the future. O3000 (talk) 00:22, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * It's fine. Drmies might prefer one-on-one conversations is some situations; I always almost prefer having any editor contributing if they have something to say. A blunt "You're not helping here" usually stops any editor from going too far off-base. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 00:44, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Disruptive editing on Playback singer by a sock
Hi, I know you do not like me much but here I want to ask you what should be done on Playback singer article because an editor previously blocked by you has again come out of hiding and started removing sources and images which I added. He is also warned by User:Black Kite|Black Kite but he is not stopping. Previously he was using his socks but now he is all out himself.Kishfan (talk) 13:45, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Its olay the matter is resolved now. Thanking in anticipation.Kishfan (talk) 13:50, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't know you so liking you/not liking you isn't really in the picture. What I don't like is calling edits vandalism when they aren't. Anyways, as you've said, the matter is resolved for now with a protect and block. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 13:58, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

ARCA sanction appeal
Hi NeilN, I have been directed to inform you that Anythingyouwant's arbitration enforcement sanction appeal at ARCA is unsuccessful. For the Arbitration Committee, Kevin ( aka L235 ·&#32; t ·&#32; c) 20:05, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Sock Puppet Note
Hey NeilN! I noticed that you blocked User:Paramount2003 at User talk:Paramount2003, but I wasn't sure what the reason was and I didn't see a link to an investigation. I'm probably just fogged about the whole issue, and I'm not necessarily defending User:Paramount2003. Also, what was wrong with the Crayola edits? I'd love to know so that I can figure out how to better identify vandalism. Consider this a very friendly note. :) - zfJames Please ping me in your reply on this page  (chat page, contribs) 15:58, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi . I actually blocked before the SPI report was made because I instantly recognized the behavior. The SPI report is here: Sockpuppet investigations/Caidin-Johnson. Not all socks will have a link back to a report. To find if a report exists, go to the talk page and click on the "What links here" link in the Tools section on the left side of your screen. You'll be sent to a page like this. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 16:09, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I appreciate the information!  - zfJames Please ping me in your reply on this page  (chat page, contribs) 16:39, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Shame tags
As suggested I'll take myself out for a time from editing the page under discussion, but could the Admins also say something to users Icewhiz and François Robere, since the Admin report was raised they managed to add two more tags to the Collaboration in German-occupied Poland article here and. This is getting out of hand, you don't just go in and place tags and question every thing you don't like. --E-960 (talk) 16:15, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Dana Loesch
Talk:Dana Loesch could use your eyes, if you're so inclined. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 17:10, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Re this, I never accused anyone of meatpuppetry, and I already made that clear on the talk page. This appears to have just been a bunch of folks discussing the article on Twitter and that leading to an influx of like-minded editors. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 18:10, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Someone added the recruitment tag to the top of the article. By the way, I noticed the DS alert kerfuffle on ViriiK's talk page. Any editor acting in good faith and with good judgment can put the informational discretionary sanction notice (e.g., ) to article talk pages as long as there are no automatic restrictions mandated by Arbcom in the topic area. Most editors don't do this because they think it's an admin function but it is an option available to everyone. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 18:52, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Some people seem to be having last word syndrome on the conversation you closed up.   21:32, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The recruit tag was put up here Regarding the DS template, when I saw it and noticed that he was not an admin, so naturally I thought it was ridiculous.  So I'm still old school on this which I was relying on my knowledge regarding WP:BLPREMOVE because I recognized that the sources for the material I knew to be extremely poor given Tapper's role.  I'm reading the arbcom decision was written back in 2014~ so I'm still catching up to some stuff.  I did notice this part here so I believe I was correct given that arbcom principle.  ViriiK (talk) 04:59, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Possible sock
Hi, Neil. I don't know if there's anything that can really be done now, but would you be willing to look into this? Thank you. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 17:45, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Efficiently blocked by --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 18:02, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * He efficiently drew my attention, so I really can't take all the credit. ​—DoRD (talk)​ 18:05, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

May I trouble you...
to look at this AE request, which has received no response in 12 hours? Vanamonde (talk) 17:34, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi . I did look at the request a few hours ago. The problem is, as you've noted, the notification was done 15 months ago and Arbcom has made it quite clear that awareness criteria are not to be disregarded so we can't use common sense here (you have to wonder why community-authorized discretionary sanctions have more sensible awareness criteria). I've asked the editor to respond at the AE request and will issue a non-DS warning if the response isn't satisfactory. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 18:42, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, I thought that might be a problem. I should have reminded them about DS too, but I really didn't expect that second revert. Anyhow they've gone offline, and the nonsense is still in the article, so I suppose I'll give them an alert and remove that stuff once again. Vanamonde (talk) 05:08, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Makes sense, given the restrictions. I'm just thinking that there's got to be a better way to do this, given that the DS notice page says that a notice may not be given if it's been less than a year since the previous one, but editors can't be sanctioned if it's been more than a year since the previous. What does ARBCOM expect; that we set reminders of the days on which each editor was notified? Vanamonde (talk) 13:33, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
 * It seems that way, doesn't it? In truth, if it ever comes to an edge case, I'm prepared to follow the spirit of awareness, if not the letter of the law. That is, if the editor is regularly referring to or being referred to AE sanctions in the topic area, I'm considering them aware, whether or not awareness is technically met. That might be appealed to Arbcom and then we'll see how much common sense we're allowed to inject into the process. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 13:46, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Besides that it takes ARBCOM forever to amend their policy, I wonder if it wouldn't indeed make sense for someone who is brought to, or participates at, AE under a particular DS regime to have their 1-year awareness period reset. It would make alerting more difficult (and possibly change how the awareness requirement is dealt with when a case is filed) but would probably ease application of restriction to some degree. I've also pondered the requirement of "1 year awareness, cannot be re-warned until after that time period", especially since parties to a case are forever aware under the current scheme. --Izno (talk) 14:04, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Awareness criteria #4. You are given the option to search AE when adding a DS notice. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 14:10, 11 May 2018 (UTC)


 * I guess I should have monitored Crawford's contributions more carefully...it would appear that every edit they have made since your tban was a tban violation! Vanamonde (talk) 05:58, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Which is kind of funny when you think about it and gives me an idea for future sanctions - a reverse topic ban. Instead of being topic banned from American Politics, you may only edit articles on... Guatemalan lizards. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 06:08, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Excellent idea. "Here is a currently conflict-free area that needs attention. Go there and demonstrate that you are actually an asset to Wikipedia". Might solve a lot of our trouble...Vanamonde (talk) 06:12, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Greg J. Marchand
Far be it to question your call (I'm not), but I noticed your create-protection of this was for "Require extended confirmed access"—a bit of deliberate trickery of sorts? Hope all's well! —SerialNumber54129 paranoia / cheap shit room 19:13, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi . No, it was deliberate. Some admins (including me) like to use it when appropriate as it prevents creation by hit-and-run editors but still lets experienced editors create the page without admin intervention. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 19:20, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
 * So I learn something new every day :) Thanks for the info.  —SerialNumber54129  paranoia / cheap shit room 19:35, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Revdel request
An IP has left some personal information in an edit summary. Rather than publish at AN/I, I hoped you could handle it quietly. Thanks in advance!  Scr ★ pIron IV 14:24, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅ --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 14:27, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

ARB and Balkans
Excuse my naivety here, but you placed an ARB warning on |this User Talk page, but I can't see any edits which hit that ARB decision... are the edits to Eleni Foureira by said editor the reason for the warning or am I missing something? Cheers! - - <kbd style="color: Red;">Rich T&#124;C&#124;E-Mail 16:33, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I assume this edit adding "Albanian" as an ethnicity is what is related to the Balkans DS, according to Balkans that region includes Albania. power~enwiki ( π, ν ) 16:36, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, yes they are. Edit warring over a nationality/ethnicity fits with "topics related to the Balkans, broadly interpreted, are placed under discretionary sanctions" I'd say. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 16:40, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Gotcha, thanks for confirming :) - - <kbd style="color: Red;">Rich T&#124;C&#124;E-Mail 17:45, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

1-Revert notice
Hi, Neil. Thank you for the notice on the sanctions on the Foreign Involvement in the Syrian War article. I was curious, however, why has User:Volunteer Marek not gotten an identical notice? He was the first to do a revert of my addition to the page.

Best, GPRamirez5 (talk) 16:38, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi . That was not strictly a 1RR notice but a notice alerting you to the General Sanctions active in the area. If you search this page, you'll see that VM was alerted in 2015. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 16:45, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Alerts expire after twelve months so a 2015 alert doesn't mean anything. I'm pretty sure Neil knows that since he said it yesterday... "The problem is the notification was done 15 months ago and Arbcom has made it quite clear that awareness criteria are not to be disregarded."  Anyway, you can notify Volunteer Marek, doesn't have to be an admin. 46.242.240.216 (talk) 18:10, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The IP (whoever it is) is wrong. No such expiry exists for community authorized general sanctions. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 18:14, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Piers Robinson & Tim Hayward
The IP 46. vandal has returned to edit the Tim Hayward (academic) article. More importantly, Piers Robinson has appeared to remove a vast chunk of his own article. I have warned him and reverted his edit. Browser problems have meant I have been unable to add the COI link. However, you may not know that Jimmy Wales has responded on Twitter to some of the people complaining about my edits. Obviously, as I'm directly involved there's a limit to what I feel I can do. Philip Cross (talk) 19:43, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Off-wiki lobbying and canvassing always works so well... Editors blocked, pages protected. The complainants need to learn how to use article talk pages. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 19:55, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Draft
This is a case for a speedy deletion: Draft:Philip Cross - Wikipedia Editor. Cannot find the relevant page. Philip Cross (talk) 20:57, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I tagged it as an attack page, as it is clearly meant as a personal attack on you.  Scr ★ pIron IV 21:07, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 21:14, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Philip Cross (talk) 21:11, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

ApolloCarmb
Hi!

I've recently been reviewing ApolloCarmb's contributions since there are many that suggest that they may have been involved in POV pushing, including in topics where I'm involved, such as Venezuela. Although many of the changes I've made so far are minor and in some cases I've tried to edit for a common ground, I'm still unsure if there are any problems reviewing the articles since the user has been blocked and naturally, they can't edit in the pages. Is there anything I should be careful about? Many thanks in advance! --Jamez42 (talk) 23:31, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
 * You are free to revert what you want. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 04:21, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Arab israeli article dispute
Dear NeilN,

I have received your warning regarding the arbitration of Arab israeli related articles. However, I have complied with recent warnings not to break with Wikipedia consensus, as I have appealed to the editing community BEFORE making further edits, and I only listed Palestine as a UN OBSERVER, and I did not add it to the rest of the UN members. I regret and reprehend the irresponsible arbitration by some editors regarding this dispute and I am in no way tied with their actions. I vow to continue to fully comply with all community guidelines and request consent BEFORE making any edits, and I wholeheartedly apologize for any inconveniences I have initially caused myself. In respect to community guidelines, I will not, from this point on, edit any related Arab israeli conflict articles and I am now disassociating myself with this dispute or any unilateral actions taken by vigilante editors. However, I wish that any recent edits I have made will be kept. Talatastan (talk) 12:01, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi . No one is tying you to the actions of prior editors. The editing restriction is one all new editors have to follow. You didn't know that so no one is going to blame you for inadvertently not following it. I'm glad to hear you'll be following the restriction from now on and hope you'll contribute in other areas. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 14:52, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Try searching for anything from your archive search box
Hi NeilN,

Archive search (and other search) is broken. Try searching 'foo' (or anything) from your Talk archive search above. Oops! Don't worry, it's not you. If you've a mind to it, come join me at Village pump (technical) and chime in. Or even better, replace me, because I can't tell if I'm more ((smh)), ((lol)), (roll-my-eyes)), or ((what's-the-emoji-for-grossed-out)), and I think I better stay away from there, now.  Mathglot (talk) 01:58, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I really, really want to make a comment about how I didn't think it was possible to make search worse than it already is... --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 02:05, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Lol; this is your lucky day, then.... Mathglot (talk) 02:16, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Jewdas
I'm sorry, but the edits are ridiculous. The RT one was just highlighting the humour used by Jewdas, which the British media curiously choose to ignore. But, fine, you can remove that one if you have something against RT....

In the second edit, I sought to fill the citation that was missing by a reference to their own website, which explained what they stood for, politically, culturally, etc. For the life of me, I cannot understand why you'd want to delete that edit.

The edit in the "History" is partly to correct poor sentence construction, with regards to the sentence starting with "That...". I'm merely pointing where that reference to "sewage" is coming from. Since that "sewage" comment is taken out of context, then surely it's appropriate to put where it came from? Or do we only allow one side of the story in Wikipedia? That is referenced to the Independent and Guido Fawkes, and the latter is where the British media got their information from.

The fourth sentence is from a British Jewish comedian, in defence of Jewdas, after criticism from Lansman and other British Jews. Is Baddiel the wrong type of Jew, for coming to the defence of the wrong type of Jews? I must say, I find this right-wing Jewish censorship of left-wing Jews deeply alarming. Are you saying that members of Jewdas are not allowed to post from articles about Jewdas? Or are only right-wing interpretations of Jewdas allowed on Wikipedia? That is referenced to the Metro newspaper, but what Baddiel reported is in several newspapers.

I am an academic, and I know what proper sources are, and those were accurate sources. I await your responses....Mikesiva (talk) 18:27, 11 May 2018 (UTC)mikesivaMikesiva (talk) 18:27, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
 * You need to discuss this on the article's talk page - Talk:Jewdas. I was just notifying you about our edit warring policy and have no comment on content. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 18:31, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

User:Needbrains
is a SPA that has been consistently been pushing a strong pro-Turkish, anti-Kurdish POV in articles related to the Syrian Civil War, especially Turkish military operation in Afrin. Over the last week, he has been long-term edit-warring to add controversial material to the article (without discussion), and judging by his edit summaries (see below), has every intent to continue this indefinitely.

"VERY VERY staunchly"    

He is extremely aggressive and hostile in all interactions: "that's just your POV punk" "you are clearly biased" "the poor little gurds"

Please advise. Thank you. Khirurg (talk) 21:28, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Now notified of General Sanctions so I expect the hostility to be dialed back. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 21:47, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Khirurg (talk) 21:49, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

User:101.178.163.208
Neil, re: your recent block of User:101.178.163.208 for disruptive editing, the disruption has continued since the block expired. There seems to be a real competence issue with the user. Thanks. - BilCat (talk) 07:22, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Blocked again by User:Doug Weller. - BilCat (talk) 21:37, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Tim Hayward and leftwork1
I think the leftwork1 sock/troll is at work again. See here and here. Philip Cross (talk) 21:44, 12 May 2018 (UTC)


 * As before here. Philip Cross (talk) 23:23, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Neil, is there a case on this and all the other socks you've blocked? I don't see one, but I wanted to make sure before I conclude my check. Maybe you could also give me a brief description of the theme or themes of this person's disruption (save me the work :-) ) Thanks..--Bbb23 (talk) 13:06, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * No, I was going to create one if the socking continued after the 500/30 was applied to the article to see if underlying IP range could be blocked. Quacking of blocked editors on here is deafening. Behavior is addition of negative material to the article and the addition of a lawsuit to this article. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 13:19, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm rather deep into my check, so why don't you let me create the case, once I figure out which is the oldest account. There are a few additional accounts that need to be blocked as well. I'll give you a heads up when it's done so you may add comments to the case if you wish given that you're obviously familiar with it.--Bbb23 (talk) 13:34, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅. See Sockpuppet investigations/Leftworks1.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:21, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Chernobog95, post-block
Hi Neiln,

It seems like Chernobog95 just doesn't learn. in the last 24 hours alone, I've caught him/her using 2 Sock IPs of the user under |212.15.182.119 and |212.15.1168.195. Here's the diffs and reasons:


 * Non-native english, as shown by "In May of 2017, [unspecificed individual] admited (misspelled)..., and "The one of three waitresses interviewed defectors expressed wilignness (misspelled)... These are similar to those Chernobog95 made prior to his/her initial block


 * Editing a page recently edited by 188.129.26.144 that was recently blocked, as evidenced here, and here.


 * All recent edits on the IPs special contribution pages  display the tags "Mobile Edit" and "Mobile Web Edit, two tags left behind by Chernobog95 and the recent IP he/she used after he/she edited a page  .  Again all the pages recently edited by the IPs are within the North Korean Portal, a portal Chernobog95 had a tendency to edit prior to being blocked.


 * The geolocations show the user editing in Croatia (specifically around or near Zagreb, a geolocation similarly shared with the previous IP Chernobog used.


 * Finally, the IP 212.15.168.195 was blocked by you recently for block evasion  which I discussed in a previous post.

I hope this evidence this convinces you otherwise. SamaranEmerald (talk) 03:27, 13 May 2018 (UTC)


 * They just showed hostility to towards User: BeenAroundAWhile via both IPs, , something Chernobog95 showed prior to his/her block SamaranEmerald (talk) 13:11, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Both IPs blocked. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 13:50, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Plea for fairness
I was again reported by Icewhiz, please, please review the actual edits (and the full chronology ), which Icewhiz listed as alleged "violations" of 1RR rule, if you notice they are all simple reverts of repeated edits done by Icewhiz, François Robere, and IP 198.84.253.202, which include more shame TAGS, removing of text (that was agreed on talk page, but they don't like the outcome ) this time using the  code, etc. These guys are causing major disruptions to the article, and think that if they can just cause enough disruption that an Admin will gets confused and restricts one of the editors from the other side, giving them free rain to change the article with out any opposition. --E-960 (talk) 12:59, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I will be reviewing the request later on today. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 13:20, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Paris Knife Attack vs Toronto Van attack
Please restore the correct information to both articles in a manner which you believe, in good faith, in a balanced manner. If you choose to use the term "Armenian", "Chechenian", or perhaps "Ciscaucasian" that is up to you, but please do it proper.126.161.151.172 (talk) 20:29, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Please stop adding your preferred terms to articles and use what reliable sources say about a subject. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 20:36, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

The problem here is that when "Armenian" was added to the Toronto article header it was taken down by concerted editors and kept out of the article, until present. Now the Paris article has "Chechen" in the header. Thus, clearly, unless both articles reflect that the attacker is/was of Ciscaucasian origin (whether explicitly Armenyan and Chechnyan or alternative) the wikipedia is not functioning properly according to balance and neutrality, and has been subverted to biased narrative. However you have become involved by intellectually dishonest or incapable bots or persons, wikipedia is better served with good-faith neutrality than dishonest bots. Honesty is indeed preferred. Meow126.161.190.240 (talk) 09:03, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The problem here is your constant misrepresentations. "Everything is sourced!" No, most of what you added was unsourced and you don't particularly care that it's unsupported,  we can always look it up.  "There are good sources."  You hadn't provided any. "jewishbreakingnews is a dubious source?"  That was the first time you (or anyone) had brought up that source. "I corrected the article."  No, you replaced sourced terminology with unsourced terminology. "Editors censored Armenian in the past.".  No, editors refuted some troll's assertion that the subject's "real" name was in Armenian and "the fact the guy is an Armenian-Canadian be PROMINENTLY noted in this article" (no sources provided, naturally) because of "Human Rights"  I am quickly coming to the conclusion that you and the last IP I mentioned are adding about the same amount of value to this project. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 14:00, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

history of guelders
Hello NeilN, Thank you for asking questions in response to the immediate removal of my first additions. Altough I don't know nearly enough of wikipedia as a contributor, your response helps me to believe that wikipedia is not always just someone's opinion. It might even comtemplate to help out in future. Keep up the good work/hope I did post this message in the right wikipedia corner. 88.159.92.203 (talk) 09:13, 14 May 2018 (UTC)Cheers/BornInGelre
 * Replied here. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 13:00, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect
I'm not in an edit war, someone has declared an edit war on me. Big difference. I explained the reason behind the edit. If someone has a particular reason to change my edit, I think they need to discuss that with me instead of taking it upon themselves to change it without explanation. Bon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bon Martin (talk • contribs) 03:40, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
 * You are edit warring against multiple editors. You need to discuss your changes on the article talk page if you are reverted again. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 03:43, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

It doesn't matter how many of them there are if they are wrong or if they have a similar agenda. "Microwave auditory effect" is a scientific fact. It has nothing innately to do with "Conpsiracy Theories". Example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed-energy_weapon

You could just as easily attach "Conpsiracy Theories" to this subject if you were so inclined. There is no "Conpsiracy Theories" section there, as well there shouldn't be. If anyone is interested in "Conpsiracy Theories", they can find it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory

Bon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bon Martin (talk • contribs) 03:53, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
 * And blocked for reverting yet again. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 04:18, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Vandalism on Renowned journalist Mujeeb-ur-Rehman Shami page
Hey, A wikipedia page of Mujeeb-ur-Rehman Shami is recently used attack and his character assignation is done, we tried to protect it but took many people are attacking it. Kindly lock this page for further changes. Hassan Nazeer Chaudhry (talk) 18:10, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅ --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 18:27, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Source
Hi, Neil - I've been trying to find something about Washington Press - and this is all I could find. If I cited such a source to disparage a public figure, I'd be turning slowly over the coals on a WP block rotisserie. I also got the same message you did when I first arrived at that site. It should probably be added to our banned sites? <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 21:28, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
 * We don't ban unreliable sources, we simply don't use them. Banning sites (that is, preventing linking to them through technical means) is reserved for serial spamming or hosting malware., I've posted on the article talk page. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 21:36, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Ahhh...ok, I thought the pop-up was suspicious but didn't stick around to find out. Cheers! <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 21:59, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect
All I wanted was a list of the accounts who were making the changes for an upcoming court case. Thanks for your help. Bon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bon Martin (talk • contribs) 08:28, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Please see your talk page. Your next edit needs to clarify what you mean here. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 12:36, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Looks like IBAN violation
This edit appears to be an egregious violation of the IBAN you recently imposed to protect. also appeared on that thread. <b style="color: #0011FF;"> SPECIFICO</b> talk 15:44, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I'll look into this later but you may want to be careful with capitalizing properly (fixed that) as I saw the crossed out name and went, "now what's happened?" --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 15:59, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Wouldn't want to cross anyone out! <b style="color: #0011FF;"> SPECIFICO</b> talk 17:26, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

I thought we were supposed to report these things at AE? Or since this was your restriction NeilN it's ok to report it here? Can you clarify which avenue is the best? Mr Ernie (talk) 13:56, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 * AE or the talk page of any uninvolved admin willing to look at enforcement requests. As to what is the best, it depends. I will try to process clear cut article editing violations quickly. Civility and IBAN violations might take up to a couple days so you might get a faster response at AE. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 14:06, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Article protection
Hi, the protection of the article Jews was mistakenly removed (the article has already been vandalized since then), can you restore it? Thanks Infantom (talk) 15:49, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Done. The semi had to come off when the full was applied by . I often forget to reapply the semi after the full expires as well. Be nice if there was a bot who tracked these situations and dropped a note on the admin's talk page four hours before the full's expiry time. Hint, hint :-) --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 16:06, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Could you also restore indefinite move protection, how it was before the recent protection/unprotection . --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 07:02, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Intellectual dark web
Hi. Intellectual dark web is another post-1932 AP article that could use some uninvolved admin attention. (I hope you don't mind me sending you these sorts of heads-up from time to time.) --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 19:33, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I get you want the page deleted but your tag bombing a three paragraph article is disruptive. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 19:39, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
 * During a pending AfD in which Guy is in the minority, I might add. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 20:01, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

VPP discussion
First, I apparently edited that after you closed it. That was inadvertent - when I started the edit it wasn't closed, and it didn't indicate any edit conflict. Should I revert that?

Second, I do not understand the justification for the close. While related, the question I'm asking there is manifestly not the same as the debate over the edit I made. For instance, if it were decided that WP:SYNC should apply, and if the lead of AR-15 style rifle were changed to remove content related to mass shootings, then that would be the content of the Colt article's section too.  Waleswatcher  ( talk ) 23:01, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I've expand the archive box at VPP and replied at the article talk page. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 23:16, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Unwatched
i unwatched the article, i am right out of patience with the handful of people determined to include the self-serving claims of srlf-published "thinkers", but there are so few sources it's virtually impossible to actually fix. i will leave it a month at least, i think, to see if more sources emerge. most of the editors there appear to focus mainly on pllitics, which i try to avoid. thanks for your comments. Guy (Help!) 05:27, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

My submission was deleted by another user - and so were my questions on talkpage
I submitted a factual and well referenced editorial on the EBSCO Information page titled "Controversy" (concerning negative press received over allegations of obscene content in school databases) and it was deleted in its entirety by another user who replaced it with a very truncated and biased version (omitting many factual citations and quotes). When I wrote to the user on the talk page, he did not respond to me, and later I found that my talk page conversation had been deleted without any further comments. Is this common practice on Wikipedia? Maxiedean (talk) 16:50, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 * No, I don't know why did that. I've restored your talk page posts after a bit of cleanup. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 17:13, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your assistance with this and the cleanup, NeilN. GermanJoe (talk) 17:35, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

BLP violations
Hello. A user you blocked last month for BLP violations and warned about not doing so again has done so, see here. Hrodvarsson (talk) 02:09, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking care of that, Cullen. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 02:54, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Happy to help. That editor was on a wrongheaded mission. I sympathize but obviously we need the highest quality sources for such allegations. <b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328  Let's discuss it  03:17, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Edit war at Candace Owens
Hi Neil, I am in an edit war over at Candace Owens over content added by User:Snooganssnoogans. I brought it up at BLP but never got a response. I tried to engage about not including an article written by someone who posted an article on her website (see archive https://archive.is/7Z7Qc) indicating that it has nothing to do with her opinion but I nave been repeatedly reverted and berated. He seems to have a modus operandi of simultaneously reverting, adding content, and rearranging at the same time so as to make it difficult to see what he is doing. Most of his recent edits seem to be one-sided as well although I don't want to venture into the mess until I get the first issue resolved. If you had time to take a look, I would appreciate it. Thanks!Patapsco913 (talk) 15:04, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Neil, this is the story: Buzzfeed News (a RS) reported that Owens (who is now a diehard Trump supporter) founded a website in 2015 that frequently posted anti-conservative and anti-Trump content. Owens herself undeniably authored anti-conservative content and it's undeniable that anti-Trump content appeared on the website. The Hill (a RS) ran a story about Owens' website, citing Buzzfeed News. Patapsco claims that the reporter behind the Buzzfeed News is unreliable and can't be trusted to get his facts right because a Vox article supposedly criticized him for poor research - this is an absurd misreading of the Vox article. Furthermore, it's irrelevant given that the facts of the Buzzfeed News source have been verified beyond doubt. Update: After repeatedly mass-removing and edit-warring away perfectly fine content, Patapsco is now saying there is "no problem" with the content that he was edit-warring over. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 15:07, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

AR-15 style rifle
Hi there, I have a question regarding that article. A week ago I made a revision to the lead that I thought addressed the concerns some editors raised on the talk page (that the word "many" in "many mass shootings" was too vague). That led to some back and forth reversions, after which Oshwah locked the article. The lock expired a few days ago and nothing happened until today, when the lead was changed back to a version from before the 11th, and my attempts to restore it were reverted. I think we have talk page consensus my edit was good, see here. There are five editors in favor (counting Mr rnddude who wanted something added to the body, which I tried to do today but was reverted) and three against. Maybe more importantly, the arguments put forward by the three opposed are very concise: "Clearly to much detail for the lead" and not "neutral tone" and were hardly expanded on. For arguments in favor, there is the fact that this does in fact summarize the body (where all the shootings in question are listed and have been for a while), is not long, is more specific than "many", and is reliably sourced.

Could you please advise me how to proceed in a situation where I think there is a consensus, but the opposed editors revert my attempts to follow it? I'm honestly trying to be constructive and improve the article by trying to address the concerns people raised. But it seems to me, based on my experience with these articles, that there is a strong reaction from some editors any time any edit is made that clarifies the role these guns play in crimes and mass shootings. Thanks. (By the way I also asked Oshwah for help with this, but they seem to be inactive for the last few days.)  Waleswatcher  ( talk ) 21:41, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Is this still an issue? --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 14:52, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes! It's now here, unfortunately.
 * Can I ask a (related) question? If a user is topic-banned, can edits they made prior to the ban be reverted without justification?  And do their opinions in talk page discussions/RfCs (opinions posted prior to the ban) count?  Thanks.   Waleswatcher  ( talk ) 14:59, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
 * No, if an editor is topic banned their edits made before their ban cannot be reverted without justification and their prior opinions cannot be discounted. If you see such silliness happening, especially reverting without justifying, please let me know. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 15:11, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks!  Waleswatcher  ( talk ) 17:00, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Sangdeboeuf
His/Her edits are so biased on various topics. He/She allows for biased sourcing on ideas he/she endorses and deletes even literal transcripts of sources that is not in dispute. At some point, someone needs to stop his/her vandalism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:8247:1D00:5159:AE4A:7AE3:5D0A (talk) 02:49, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Multiple editors have called him/her out even on Cathy Newman's talk page but he/she won't even allow again QUOTES OR UNDISPUTED FACTS into the page. Would not be shock if Sangdeboeuf is Cathy Newman.

You're actions are detestable. Rather than being a fair arbiter of what's going on, your solution was disregarding likely the 75 percent of views for the whims of your own biases. Smh. What is wikipedia coming to. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.173.122.81 (talk) 05:15, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Any further block evasion will result in longer blocks. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 05:22, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Would not be shock if Sangdeboeuf is Cathy Newman. I must say it would come as quite a shock to me. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 05:58, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
 * If this person starts to edit war again after their block expires, please let me know. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 06:06, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
 * This may be another sock of the same user, based on related edits to . Pinging also. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 18:05, 19 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Could be, looks like they may be using a proxy server but I'm not quite technical enough to be sure. Doug Weller  talk 18:17, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Hi from HouseOfChange
I have had quite a few arguments with KalHolmann in the past, at an article (Joy Ann Reid) where we often disagree on content etc. But my experience over a month or 2 is that he/she is a diligent, wiki-loving editor who values our great Wikipedia project. If you got a different impression, I just want to share my some-months-worth opinion with you: that KalHolmann is a sincere editor trying to benefit Wikipedia, even if he/she might not know about policies like Canvassing. It will be good for Wikipedia, IMO, if we can keep KaiHolmann working with us to add content and improve articles. Thanks for listening! HouseOfChange (talk) 21:14, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Flag of Syria
Hello, I would like to notify you that I will stop participating in that page. I replied to the talk page but I think I will stop. I will not edit the article itself. Cheers.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 21:40, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi . You don't have to stop editing the article. You just have to be aware that there are revert restrictions placed on it. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 21:50, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Hello NeilN, I need your help. The discussion is not going anywhere, the Anti Assad party is not presenting any reliable sources but just keep on reverting and maintaining a POV tone in article where the opposition governments are designated with their official designations, while the Syrian government is called Assad government. I, on the other hand, have provided a reliable source for the use of the flag by the republic of Syria and not by just a regime but all I got was: why do we need to have change our old consensus.

I do not care for Assad, he is not democratically elected, but to call the Syrian government an Assad government while calling the opposition ones with their official names is a gross POV statement. So, where can I get help? is there some kind of noticeboard where I can ask an admin to take a look and weigh all the arguments and decide if the article is compliant with Wiki policies or is it going to be endless arguments based on opinions and reverting ? Cause I dont have the power nor will to do the latter and that why I dont have many pages related to modern period in my watch list.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 17:13, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
 * There's an open RFC on this issue, right? What is needed is more editors to participate there., you have been referring to a "consensus of 2013". Please provide a link to that consensus. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 15:05, 22 May 2018 (UTC)


 * here: [] and here [].Alhanuty (talk) 16:09, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Neither discussion can be viewed as coming to a consensus and neither discussion was about content reverted in this edit. Please be significantly more careful when claiming consensus exists. Claiming consensus as the reason for your edit when no such consensus exists will get you sanctioned. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 16:19, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

these discussions led to the current form of the article,which has been in place since 2013,and it follows the Libyan Precedent,but if you say that it is not a consensus,then okay,but it has been uncontested for years since 2013,for me,i won't oppose a change to it,only if the Syrian Interim Government and Syrian National Coalition fully lose ground.As for the word Assad Government,i followed the Libyan Precedent which called the Great Socialist Libyan Arab Jamahiriyah simply as the Gaddafi Government.that is allAlhanuty (talk) 17:01, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

False, One sided Description on the beginning of a Wikipedia Page of a Person
The description which says "Founder of Islam" at the start of the page of Muhammad is clearly misinformed and ignorant, not only is it false to the originality but is also offensive to 1.6 billion Muslims living in 2018. It is very surprising how this Wikipedia contribution would start the very first lines of "Prophet Muhammad" page by labeling him a "Founder of Islam" such a statement is inflammatory, discriminatory and Islamophobic. The fact that Wikipedia would source a non-Muslim viewpoint on describing Muhammad before the 100s of Muslim expert and historical experts shows Wikipedia edit of "Founder of Islam" is done to misinform people and have a political view. Political leaning are not Wikipedia way so it is better to have a neutral view which is not leaning on any sides. Labeling Muhammad a "founder of Islam" is an ignorant statement that is not present in most "historical accounts of Islam, Muslims, non-muslims, news and literature sources views from experts. The 2 sources no. 2 and 3 are also from a far right, Islamophobic view which has a political leaning to call Muhammad a "Founder of Islam". Even if you describe from so called "historical view" which is misinformed and ignorant should come in "Criticism of Muhammad" section and theological perspective should come first as that is the original source not some one sided opinion from a book from 2012 or 2009 which has a political leaning and a false description of Muhammad. The statement "Founder of Islam" should be removed as it is false and makes Wikipedia information to seem unreliable, misinformed, uneducated and political in its information. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheRightlyGuided (talk • contribs) 17:16, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Please clarify: what do you think is wrong with the phrase "founder of Islam"? -- Orange Mike &#124;  Talk  18:02, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
 * They're contending that God is the founder of Islam, not Muhammad, is my guess. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 18:04, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't have much else to say beyond what I've said before. The article covers the subject from a documented historical perspective, not a theological perspective. If you are looking for a place where beliefs (any beliefs) trump documented history, Wikipedia isn't it. BTW, this is also the reason why why don't label Jesus the "son of God" in Wikipedia's voice. This is also the reason why we don't state adherents of x religion are going to hell if they don't repent/recant/convert/whatever. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 20:18, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Resolving dispute on Communism
Hello, so I'm curious how I can end this dispute about whether Communism should be considered Totalitarian and Authoritarian or not, there has been no new comment on the talk page since 12 May, I was long thinking of starting an RfC to solve this, but the users claimed that this is somehow merely a point of view and as such it violates the NPOV rule, the glossary states the following:

"Remember that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia; all articles must follow the Neutral point of view, Verifiability, and No original research policies."

This is what discouraged me from doing, I would like to ask you first how can I resolve this dispute? Also did I just misinterpret this rule or does this really mean that I can't start an RfC because placing Communism in those categories somehow violate NPOV? Lastly, does placing Communism in the Totalitarian and Authoritarian categories actually violate NPOV? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pedro8790 (talk • contribs) 02:00, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
 * You can start a RFC but you'll have a lot better luck if you can get non-trivial material about communism and totalitarianism and authoritarianism included in the article. Editors like to see that reliably sourced material, not user opinion, supports inclusion of the category. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 15:48, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Just for curiosity, why would I have less luck with an RFC? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pedro8790 (talk • contribs) 18:24, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
 * WP:CATV: "Categorization of articles must be verifiable. It should be clear from verifiable information in the article why it was placed in each of its categories." If you start a RFC about categories when it isn't clear from verifiable information in the article why the categories you are proposing were placed then other editors are unlikely to support your position. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 18:35, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

requesting move
I have read though the policy thanks but I'm not withdrawing though still — Preceding unsigned comment added by VarunKhurana326 (talk • contribs) 19:28, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

AR-15 style rifle Part 2
Could you take a look at this? The discussion has turned into a debate over whether or not consensus has been established and would benefit from an uninvolved admin's input. –dlthewave ☎ 02:00, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

There is also a dispute over what is the "stable" version that we should revert to if there is no consensus. This altered a version that was stable for six days (admittedly, for the first four the article was locked).  Waleswatcher  ( talk ) 02:32, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

The talk page is a mess, but if you look at it you'll see there is actual progress being made on agreeing on a consensus version. The version you just reverted is new, and got the go-ahead from User:Mr rnddude here. If the votes from before remained stable that would be 5-3 in favor of this new version. But if you think it's necessary, I can start a new talk page section with a discussion of this language.  Waleswatcher  ( talk ) 13:54, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi . Because the proposed wording is new, editors should get a chance to weigh in to see if the wording has stronger consensus. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 14:00, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Can you point me to a wiki policy where I can read about that to understand it better? Per WP:BRD, I thought when you revert you give a specific reason, and then the original proposer can go to the talk page to discuss that reason.  The reason can't be "no consensus" for a new edit, since it hasn't been discussed yet.  (Of course in this particular case it was discussed and one of the previously opposed editors supported it.)  Thanks.   Waleswatcher  ( talk ) 14:05, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
 * From what I read on the talk page, the focus of the dispute is "Six of the 10 deadliest mass shootings" vs. "It has been used in [many] mass shootings in the United States" and that dispute is continuing. Oshwah protected one version about a week ago, edit warring continued after protection expired, so I've now protected the other wrong version. I do have to raise my eyebrows a bit at some of your past edit summaries given the article's protection history and the fact that consensus isn't a vote. "Restored version that has been in place for the last week.", "Restoring edit as per talk page consensus"? Have you and the other editors considered using WP:DRN? --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 14:24, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
 * When I made that edit (with the summary claiming consensus) there were 5 editors in favor versus 3 against. Then there was a dispute over whether that constituted a consensus.  I thought it did, both given the majority and because the arguments in favor were much more detailed, and also because the material that was added addressed a concern originally raised by some of the opposed editors (that "many" is too vague).  After some back and forth a few more votes came in and it got muddled.  This new edit addressed a concern Mr rnddude raised, and they changed their vote to supporting it.  Anyway this is probably too much detail.  Let's see what happens on the talk page now, if we can't achieve consensus I'll come back to you.   Waleswatcher  ( talk ) 15:28, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Just as a side note, if you include Mr rnddude it is 5 in favor and 4 opposed, the 4th vote was by thewolfchild here. PackMecEng (talk) 16:02, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
 * When I made that edit (with the summary claiming consensus) there were 5 editors in favor versus 3 against, and another editor had concluded there was a consensus. I agreed, both given the majority and because the arguments in favor were much more detailed, and also because the material that was added addressed a concern originally raised by some of the opposed editors (that "many" is too vague). But there was no consensus over what counts as consensus (dear god...). This new edit addressed a concern Mr rnddude raised, and as a result they changed their vote to supporting it. Anyway this is probably too much detail. Let's see what happens on the talk page now, if we still disagree I'll probably come back to you.  Waleswatcher  ( talk ) 15:28, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
 * ...there was no consensus over what counts as consensus This seems to be the heart of the dispute and should be assessed by an uninvolved editor. Aside from WP:DRN, we could open an RfC or simply request a close for the current discussion. Maybe give it a few more days to settle down before moving forward.
 * I've found that in the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter which version of a sentence is in place while it's being discussed. Arguing over this will distract from the relevant content discussion and prolong the process. The consensus version will eventually be decided and implemented regardless of what is in place at the moment. –dlthewave ☎ 17:06, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

Asked and Answered
On User_Talk:Philip Cross, you said that the question "How many people are operating the "Philip Cross" account?" had been answered, threatening immediate blocks if the question is asked again. Accordingly I am not repeating the question; I am asking that you please direct me to the answer, which I cannot find. 81.2.68.136 (talk) 12:39, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Blocked. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 13:01, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

76.112.108.138
You might want to revoke their talkpage access. Thanks. 24.205.75.247 (talk) 05:43, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

Mark Callahan ‎
Thank you for blocking the disruptive IP. I'm not sure if I should post this on the noticeboard for transparency or something but per this edit where they say "On Monday, Legal action will be taken against all parties involved" should anything be done? Should the foundation be emailed? HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 05:45, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Probably a waste of time, in my opinion. I've revoked talk page access as the IP above suggested. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 05:59, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay, thank you! HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 06:00, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I had that page on a private list of pages to consider AfD-ing, but the current consensus seems to be leaning towards keeping American political candidates who have "won" a primary and have the normal amount of news coverage to that effect, so there's no real point to do so right now. power~enwiki ( π, ν ) 06:03, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

Sock returns
has returned again for same edits, using a sleeper account named. Need to run a checkuser to see if there is more accounts.--<i style="color:maroon">Let There Be Sunshine</i> 08:17, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Socking?
This editor seems to be a sock of this IP, except that the account has been around for a while. I'm not too happy pulling the trigger until I know what's going on; do you know who the master may be, and why the sleeper (if such) may not have been caught? Vanamonde (talk) 09:05, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * See Sockpuppet investigations/Abhinand1234. I blocked the sock yesterday based on behavioral evidence outlined here. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 12:37, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Ah I see. Well, I don't want to preempt the SPI, and as a CU was run I don't know that I can block under WP:DUCK anyhow. Cheers, Vanamonde (talk) 12:42, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

hi ur the one who is undo *ing all the edits done in parvatii nair's wiki page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lathaj8 (talk • contribs) 11:46, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Civility, personal attack? DS Talk:Donald Trump
Hi NeilN. Could you review the text I redacted here, please? It seems like a bright-line violation of WP:NPA to me, after lots of lesser in-your-face sophistry and disparagement of a lesser order. Thanks. No need to respond. <b style="color: #0011FF;"> SPECIFICO</b> talk 17:27, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

, please see the following at SPECIFICO's talk page: and this at Scjessey's talk page. <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">-- ψλ  ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">✉ ✓ 17:50, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I didn't see it as a PA...some may even consider it a compliment...but I'm thinking if the editor who was asked felt uncomfortable with the question, Winkelvi| would have struck or explained...but you removed it within 10 min of it being posted. "Make haste slowly" ~ Kikkoman. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 18:28, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Whether it’s technically a PA or not, I’d say it’s in bad form and unhelpful itself. And, I’m not convinced that, say, Europeans are any less knowledgeable about how American think than Americans from one region or social, cultural or economic background are knowledgeable about Americans outside of their circles. O3000 (talk) 19:20, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I can't speak for Europeans, but I have a pretty decent grip on a Dutch/African/South American perspective based on my residency and intimate knowledge of life among a population of less than 12k nearly 1.5 decades ago to its current growth of about 18k - it is just as mixed there as it is in the US. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 21:38, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * And how were your weekends? Get a chance to step away from the computer and go out and experience some of that great land of yours? I don't see the need for redaction. One editor made a throwaway personal observation, another showed irritation at the observation. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 23:01, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * It's been pretty good, got a lot of my cleaning done. How about you? { PackMecEng (talk) 23:28, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I would like it to be the weekend again, please. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 17:45, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Re: revert
NeilN, my explanation for the revert is here:. Stable version was under discussion per MelanieN's similar revert. MelanieN is an involved editor and she closed the discussion early. Her close is improper because she is involved even though she closed against her own text. Andrevan@ 15:41, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Hello NeilN. Please review the past several days history of this. I think you got it backwards. <b style="color: #0011FF;"> SPECIFICO</b> talk 15:42, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * That material was introduced in the last week. It is not stable by any means. correctly recognized this here. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 15:45, 29 May 2018 (UTC)


 * NeilN, could you explain to me where the "stability" time metric is defined or interpreted? I was under the impression that the right to dispute or revert an edit expires after a number of days and other edits have passed, where days might be as low as 2 days. Andrevan@ 15:47, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * You and SPECIFICO are tag-team edit warring. I'm leaning hard to an AE report which I very rarely file since I truly do believe in giving everyone a long rope..but by doing so you're about to hang yourselves.--MONGO 15:52, 29 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Neil, I invite you to strike MONGO's text threatening to report me for "tag team edit warring" as non-content-based or productive discussion, but regardless. My procedural revert was on the same basis as MelanieN. MelanieN treated the version with text as the stable version, per her earlier revert. Please provide diffs of the 4-6 week time discussion for my review if you don't mind. Andrevan@ 15:59, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * You are seriously asking for MONGO's comment to be struck after all the comments you've made this past week on various boards and talk pages? No. And I remind you that these are discretionary sanctions, placed at the discretion of an uninvolved administrator. I've used four to six weeks since 2016. Here is the latest discussion. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 16:12, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Why not take some of the energy you're putting into arguing about which is the WP:WRONG revision and put it into finding a compromise? ~Awilley (talk) 16:20, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I think you'll find, while I did accuse various groups of POV-pushing and being paid shills, both serious violations of policy, I never said anything like what MONGO just wrote. It should go without saying that SPECIFICO and I have scarcely interacted, as I'm sure many of the anti-Trump editors have been keeping their distance for fear that I am not their friend. And, really, I'm not their friend! My goal is to prevent subversion of Wikipedia's policy and process, where referenced material about a WP:PUBLICFIGURE will not be whitewashed for political reasons. For example, Mark Bassett is being allowed to participate despite his COI . Regardless, if the version with the text was not the stable version, that means Melanie's procedural revert because the material was under discussion, was out of process. Also, while the discussion you've linked to in April uses your 4-6 week timeframe, am I correct in understanding that this timeframe is your own rule of thumb and not based on any policy, ruling or precedent? Anyway, WP:WRONGVERSION is not the meat of the problem here. The problem is that uninvolved admins need to step in and take a more active role in weeding out abuse of policy, WP:GAME and POV pushing. Andrevan@ 16:25, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Be careful what you ask for. ~Awilley (talk) 16:34, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * You really should strike that. It's a threat with implied WP:ASPERSIONS, and it does not reflect the temperament we expect of Admins. I'm sure you didn't intend it, but I assure you that it has the effect of enabling disruptive editors and personalization of diputes. Period, full stop. <b style="color: #0011FF;"> SPECIFICO</b> talk 16:57, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Awilley's comment is similar to one I made to you a few weeks ago that you also objected to. I fully support it, given the past edits. You need to seriously realize that boomerangs can and do occur and that "ban editors on both sides" is not a rare suggestion. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 17:18, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, four to six weeks is my own rule of thumb. Since I am one of the main admins (if not the main admin) watching over the day-to-day activity in this area, and I've posted about four to six weeks often enough, regulars are familiar with it. As far as I'm aware, no other admin active in the area is using a different definition. As for POV-pushing, that's a pretty standard accusation hurled by both sides. My goal here is to keep the worst violations and violators in check and to address clear-cut editing restriction violations. Anything else should go to WP:AE. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 16:38, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * That's fine. I don't dispute your 4-6 weeks. I do however believe that there is more going on here than simple POV pushing. User:Mr. Daniel Plainview was just blocked. Have there been equivalent blocked socks pushing to include the disputed biographical material on Mr. Trump? Andrevan@ 16:47, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The only other recent one I recall is ValarianB. But I would not classify them as a right wing POV pusher. PackMecEng (talk) 16:54, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't know what you're asking. There's at least one anti-Trump sockmaster whose accounts were blocked on a fairly regular basis. Their name escapes me right now - might recall. They were pretty insistent on tying Trump to Nazism using various sources. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 16:56, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh Kingshowman, how could I forget them?! PackMecEng (talk) 16:57, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's them. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 16:59, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * <ec> ? BTW, I had a notion that Explorium might be related based on the swamp business.  Acroterion   (talk)   17:00, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Who was blocked in October 2016 before the election, correct? And I hope after he was blocked there was some skepticism applied to his edits, sources, comments, and so on. Let's do that now with respect to Plainview and his goal of removing information from the article about Trump's racial attitudes, lying about his academic career, etc. Andrevan@ 17:02, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * There were two CheckUsers involved in the block of Mr. Daniel Plainview. The tag on their userpage says who the master is. Kingshowman is a notorious sockmaster. Kingshowman and Hidden Tempo are not in the least bit related.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:14, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Bbb, I am not saying they are related. I am making an analogy. When Kingshowman was blocked, I'm sure those Nazi POV pushing editors got a lot of scrutiny. Andrevan@ 17:16, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Did you violate OUTING with this edit above?..or are you simply digging?--MONGO 17:12, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I Googled the username and the word "Trump." Andrevan@ 17:15, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Why? Why post where the person works? I mean if its even the same person?--MONGO 17:17, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * His comments are gross violations of our policy. He refers to RS cited statements as "rumor." He does not participate in threaded discussion, he simply weighs in and votes on different discussions without addressing any arguments. Andrevan@ 17:20, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * His comments are gross violations of our policies". Has anyone aside from you made similar determinations? You then state "I don't know if it is him", but proceed to say they have a COI?--MONGO 17:27, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * OK, please redact and oversight my possible outing of a user's real name Google search results if necessary. That would be a policy violation that I should have done via email to Neil and not talk page. Andrevan@ 17:28, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, that was outing,, whether you correctly identified the person or not, so it has been suppressed. ​—DoRD (talk)​ 17:39, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

I've topic banned Andrevan from Donald Trump for three months. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 17:31, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * That's fair - I just stepped over the line. However, I think you should consider pursuing topic bans for several other users as well. Don't just take it from me -- Wikipedia policy is being run roughshod on these articles. Andrevan@ 17:50, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

As a follow-up FYI re: outing attempts, Andrevan was at the WikiInAction Reddit page yesterday looking for help on how to out an editor. He was chastised, rightly so, because of his admin status. <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">-- ψλ  ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">✉ ✓ 17:58, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The comment has now been deleted, but I have a photo snip of it. The content was: "I have solid evidence but I can't share it because of privacy rules about outing/doxing people.  How do I get access to the Runet? <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">-- ψλ  ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">✉ ✓ 19:01, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I refrain from looking and linking to that site because it's about as useless and toxic as the old Wikipedia Review. But I may be biased as I'm "one of the most corrupt, broken administrators on the website" (link helpfully given to me by one of my "fans"). --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 19:08, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I hear you on both sites. I only ran across Reddit by accident a few weeks ago.  In spite of it's reputation, Andrevan certainly felt it the right place to go in order to get tips on how to out a Wikipedia editor who has disagreed with him and he suspects is a Russian agent (hence, his request for how to get into Runet to do more sleuthing.  And it didn't go unnoticed at the discussion thread that Andrevan is both an admin and a bureaucrat.  Just saying. <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">-- ψλ  ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">✉ ✓ 19:25, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for stepping in, Neil. I’m shocked to see someone like Andrevan pursuing the outing of an editor. His battlefield, us-vs.-them mentality is bad enough, but deliberate outing is an absolute no-no that usually leads to blocks or worse - as he surely knows given his length of service and his multiple positions of trust. Adding “I’m not sure if it’s really him” makes it even worse IMO. This appears to be an extension of his suspicion that any user who disagrees with him may have corrupt reasons for doing so. Although he has stopped talking out loud about Russian agents, he did hint, several times, that he was going to follow up his suspicions with investigation. User:SPECIFICO, I answered your question about the "4 to 6 weeks" guideline, and the more general principles at work, at the article talk page. --MelanieN (talk) 18:26, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the link, but my recollection was that we'd discussed this when the discussion started a few days ago and that the Wharton version was considered status quo. Now, I could be remembering wrong and it may have been ambiguous but it was clearly -- in an article where the wait is only an hour or two for folks to respond to pings, and with an active group of editors on the article just about daily -- it was clearly not recent edit that was immediately challenged by revert. And so I felt that NeilN (who may not have been following all the details as closely as the involved editors) did not handle it well and could have used his words instead of leading to a situation that clearly has not ended well for anyone or for the future of these Politics pages on WP. I appreciate your follow-up. I think we agree this is not worth more discussion at this point. <b style="color: #0011FF;"> SPECIFICO</b> talk 18:38, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, for raising the issue. I glossed over those couple of sentences as they were tangential to the issue being discussed. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 18:50, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Wasn't positive myself at first.--MONGO 18:57, 29 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Now Andrevan is at Jimbo's talk page asking him to do "a bunch of drive-by banning/blocking" of editors Andrevan feels are pro-Trump infiltrators who administrators are ignoring.  Can't someone do something to save this guy from himself?  Holy cannoli. <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">-- ψλ  ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">✉ ✓ 19:59, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * It's an "appeal to Jimbo" which the community traditionally allows. If it gets too far off base, I'll step in if another admin doesn't beat me to it. Thankfully there's been less drama than I feared. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 22:32, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

User:NeilN -- revert??? Anything here I could help with or need to know ? I got auto-pinged for my tag above, something about COI and something I cannot see here. I was unusually inactive from 23 to 29th and had a bunch of catchup on the 29th at the Trump BLP... is this related to something felt wrong among them ? Cheers Markbassett (talk) 06:43, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Andrevan linked to a newspaper article which contained a name that was the same as yours and alleged that it was you. The posts have been suppressed per WP:OUTING. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 13:38, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * OK, seems nothing needed from me then and no distress from me over whatever. Having googled my own name I know mostly it shows ones in legal trouble, and clumps of Bassetts around Southampton, the New York/Canada border, south Virginia, and Australia from previous centuries of Bassett convicts.   Not seeing how recent hits form a COI logic but eh.  Cheers Markbassett (talk) 19:54, 2 June 2018 (UTC).

FloridaArmy
I cannot post on their talk page but following their response to your query, is this now a matter for ANI? They're not learning, not really collaborating, they've made some howlers in terms of factual errors etc. I don't know if CIR really stretches this far, and NOTHERE is even more of a stretch, but something needs to be done somewhere because this is becoming a timesink involving a lot of experienced contributors.

I dom't mind initiating an incident report but I probably should not notify them of it, so someone else would have to do that. - Sitush (talk) 17:00, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's a matter for ANI as I doubt the appropriate block for edit warring will address the issues editors have raised. Editors cannot ban required notifications from being posted but if you don't want to do it, include a note in your ANI report asking for someone else to do the notification. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 17:11, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Mentioned you at WP:ANI here. - Sitush (talk) 17:42, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Your threats
NeilN, you have again raised the threat you made against me several weeks ago on this page.

Aside from any useful or appropriate meaning you may have attempted but failed to convey, your threat insinuated WP:ASERSIONS and it referred to an unspecified past sanction on me. When I asked you to clarify your meaning and intent, you declined to reply. I'd thought you'd dropped it and that the issue was dead.

Apparently not. So I'm going to ask you again, what past sanction were you referring to when you threatened me several weeks ago? I will not assume what you may reply and so I will not comment further until I fully understand your meaning and intention. Thanks, and thanks for your volunteer efforts at WP.<b style="color: #0011FF;"> SPECIFICO</b> talk 18:12, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't think you understand or are unable to accept that your own editing is sometimes seen as problematic. Asking for "tough enforcement" could very well get you caught up in that net as well. The AE request brought against you a couple weeks ago which resulted in logged reminder should have made you aware of that. "Be careful what you wish for" is something all editors should heed when they press for stricter enforcement, because that enforcement probably won't be directed at only one side. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 18:40, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * NeilN -- Pardon me if I was not clear. I was asking you what you were referring to several weeks ago when you said I should be careful I do not get "a few more" sanctions. I was not asking about what you meant today. Here is the link I was and am still asking, what were you referring to when you said "a few more?" A few more than what others? -- What were you referring to. If it was unclear to me, I'm sure it was unclear to other readers who were on your page. I am still requesting a reply to that. Thanks <b style="color: #0011FF;"> SPECIFICO</b> talk 18:59, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Are you objecting to the word "more"? If so, consider it stricken. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 19:42, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, a number of issues are raised by your response, as I'm sure you are aware. All of the hundreds of readers of your talk page came away with the impression that I've been sanctioned in American Politics, an impression that is false and damaging to my future collaboration on this project.  Second, your having declined to reach that straightforward statement -- still without explicitly acknowledging the WP:ASPERSION that endures in those readers' minds, was at best a very grudging way to take ownership of your error. Let's leave it at those two.
 * Your reference to the recent AE thread brought by the very problematic editor who's been stalking me for many years, is similarly unclear. What I acknowledged, and what the panel there accepted, was that in the increasingly banter-filled and familiar tone of the AP articles, I had at times been curt, sarcastic, or dismissive in a way that could be offensive to some editors. That was what the diffs showed and that's what I acknowledged and pledged to curtail.  And I have kept that pledge. It's therefore very disappointing to see you, after the previous misrepresentation you now appear to be acknowledging, refer to that warning as if it related to other forms of disruptive behavior that were not in evidence and which would, if indeed they had been in evidence, have led to a sanction on me.
 * The inescapable conclusion I draw from your behavior toward me is that for whatever reason, you just react badly to me and assume that I'm generally perpetrating all sorts of violations. Obviously that is problematic when you express those feelings in the context of your Admin role. As I've said we're volunteers here so I have no concern as to how you go about your Admin business. If I were an Admin and patrolling the Politics articles, I would make it my business to have a much more thorough and detailed understanding of the history of the articles, editors, and interactions than you appear to bring to the role. But whether you approach it that way is not for anyone else to say.

In light of your behavior toward me I think you should either stay away from me or seriously reflect upon and reform your approach as manifest in the recent incidents. For my part, I will stop seeking your advice or assistance in your Admin capacity so any pressure or embarrassment that I may have caused you will not recur. No need to reply, I am not trying to engage further, just making clear my valid concern. <b style="color: #0011FF;"> SPECIFICO</b> talk 20:10, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * A note that I will not be changing how I admin in this area. In fact, you did receive mild editing restriction from me in American Politics last year. You are free to seek assistance elsewhere, of course. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 20:18, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Gee, NeilN. I thought I really went out of my way on several occasions to acknowledge that you are a volunteer and you are helping out to the best of your abilities and inclinations as you see fit. I really think I made it clear I did not posture myself as someone who has any right to tell you how to volunteer, except as it violates site norms with respect to me, my participation and my reputation in this community.
 * By the same token I did not bring up the sanction you levied on me last year. But since you raised it, I'd hope that with the benefit of hindsight you will one day understand 1. That the edits in question (by an editor who's received multiple sanctions in this area before and after that incident) were immediately reviewed and resulted in a block by another Admin. Your opinion therefore that my pointing out his misbehavior -- in a post from me that was at worst an IAR expression of frustration that Admins are not taking a more active role patrolling these articles -- was kind of negated by the diligent work of the Admin who recognized the DS violation on its face. 2. That I could have made a fuss and appealed (as so many sanctioned editors do) and railed against you and everyone else in the vicinity and held you up as a __fill-in-the-blank__ whatever. But I have always accepted community actions as good-faith best efforts. 3. That the status quo in these American Politics articles, in which it's become the norm to go through ANI-like drama and deflection and coalition warfare at AE, is not working as Arbcom intended. The inability of WP to muster enough Admins to actively patrol and enforce AP2 on these articles has cost us many good editors and continues to discourage others who come here only to research good sources and write well-formed articles. The fact is that if spontaneous blocks were handed out for obvious violations the area would immediately see self-control and self-selected improvements in behavior.
 * So my conclusion remains the same, and again I am not seeking to engage with you and do not think any reply would be fruitful. But let's stay away from one another. If you see something about me you absolutely can't stomach in the future, please let it lie and one of your many colleagues or the AE panel will handle it, I'm sure. <b style="color: #0011FF;"> SPECIFICO</b> talk 21:09, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * And again, I will not be changing how I admin in this area. That includes taking admin actions where you are involved like I did today. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 22:24, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Talatastan
I am deeply concerned that you've went as far as to extend my ban until November 18th of this year, and didn't even notify me of it. I have been banned for the full 72 hours and I request that the ban be lifted as soon as possible, let alone an explanation. I have agreed that I'll distance myself from the Arab-Israeli-Palestinian conflict for the time being, and only will make positive contributions when appropriate. Yet again, despite my hiatus from editing the arab israeli palestinian articles, I still believe that categorizing palestine as an observer along with the 194 states or as part of the 195 states based on facts on the ground, not bias towards any of the SWLR (states with limited recognition)

talatastan (talk) 2:33, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * You were blocked for 72 hours for violating WP:ARBPIA3. That block has now expired. I have no idea where you're getting "November 18th" from. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 18:44, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. Sockpuppet logged into wrong account?. Not sure how they confused the topic area.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8800:1300:16E:E0B6:FBB2:27A1:90F2 (talk) 20:29, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * No, I contacted a checkuser and cleared up the matter. All's good. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 20:34, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Cathy Newman
Could you add protection on Cathy Newman page. Uncontroversial facts of interview are being vandalized by User:Sangdeboeuf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:8247:1D00:9963:B1DC:2CD4:5535 (talk) 00:06, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I've semi-protected it which probably not what you want. You'll need to go to the article talk page as (who is no vandal) requested. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 00:27, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

You and i both know he/she is a vandal. Really he/she is disputing that that portion is not the most talked about? That's how even Bill Maher introduced Peterson. That literally is the clip that all the article talk about, has been the topic of discussion. We both know that's "sky is blue" type of truth. And the lines included were literally a description of the interview exchange. He/she is concerned not that the content is true but that the lines added inherently (due to the truth behind the words alone) cast his/her views in a negative light. We all know this is true. This is why he/she resorts to specious arguments that it's not "well-sourced." Everyone knows that's not true as evidenced by the talk page. we all KNOW that Sangdeboeuf is abusing the system. If that's not vandalism I don't know what is. Do you really think Sangdeboeuf even cares about the "most commented" language or the rest of the lines that kinda of shows people like Sangdeboeuf are fascist bigots. Hmm. Not very hard is. It's so ironic that Peterson's words exemply the very problem on Newman's page. Harassment/and detest for basic facts because it inconveniences fascists like Sangeboeuf. Keep it up. I noticed an admin already changed it. At some point, Wikipedia lost its mission goals of accuracy and truth. I've seen so many editors detract conservative news outlets for being just that while citing profusely to sources like vox and salon. Is this what Wikipedia really is now? Think about that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.107.16.119 (talk) 03:40, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * You will have to go to the talk page to make your case without the personal attacks. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 21:20, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Mentioned
See this ANI about the Miss Kyrgyzstan report at AN3. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 01:10, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Thon Maker semi
Hi NeilN. Any chance of semi protection at Thon Maker? Lots of random vandalism recently. Cheers. DaHuzyBru (talk) 17:37, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Two years and a block. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 17:52, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Vandalism
Could you please block this vandal? Thanks--יניב הורון (talk) 21:00, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * יניב הורון, unless they're spewing hate speech I am unlikely to block an editor who has no warnings. I gave them a level 3 warning. Admin stalkers who are meaner less soft-headed than me may want to block. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 21:14, 30 May 2018 (UTC)