User talk:Neodop

Welcome (2008)
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WikiProject Latin music invitation
Erick (talk) 09:20, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! ;-))
Dear friend 'Neodop', Thank you very much for your great help with the article on Rubén González. You have greatly improved this article and I am so glad you had access to more sources than I had! As you probably noticed, I had previously tried to improve the article with information available on sleeve notes and I am therefore so pleased that you have provided additional sources from books I don't have. I hope you won't mind that I made minor changes today, such as fixing a couple of typos and adding punctuation, while also re-listing a few items in chronological order; I think the article looks really great now, thanks to you! Thank you once again for your great contributions! With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 15:30, 13 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Dear friend 'Neodop',
 * Thank you for the kind message you left at my talk page. I also liked your latest improvements to the Discography section, which looks even better now!
 * I fully agree with you that it would be good to aim for GA, but we would surely need some photos and I imagine they're all copyrighted (like those great b&w shots by Christina Piza). So, I think it would be a struggle to upload any of them into Commons – the usual challenge! In fact, I gave up on uploading photos after a few attempts, some time ago, because I find it such a hopeless task.
 * But today, I have added an entry for the latest release by World Circuit: Buena Vista Social Club / Lost and Found (2015). Have you heard this album yet? There's great material on there, as you'd expect, including Rubén's last recorded solo on "Bodas De Oro", where he is also joined by his son Rubencito.
 * Also, I had always wanted to include Rubén's great quote in the article: "If I can't take a piano with me to heaven, I don't want to go!" So, I have now done that, using the same quote box template you added for Cooder's quote, but extended to 30% because this rendered Rubén's quote in just two lines. Therefore, I took the liberty of widening your quote box to '30%' also, but please feel free to revert if you prefer.
 * I also re-worded the sentence about the Africans' visa problem; I think it reads better now, without the misuse of 'due to'.
 * Take care, and many thanks once again for all your great help, 'Neodop'!
 * With kind regards;
 * Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 10:15, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Latest update: I also added spacing in the existing prose, to create more paragraphs; I think it makes the text easier to read but please feel free to revert any of this. Finally, I also re-worded in a few places, aiming to remove a few items of duplication and to make the article read even more fluently. I hope it helped a little more.
 * With kind regards for now;
 * Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 17:00, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Dear friend 'Neodop',
 * I noticed your recent revert back to 'Juan de Marcos'. Please therefore allow me to explain that the reason I replaced 'Juan de Marcos' > 'de Marcos González', was as per MOS:SURNAME. I am assuming his first name in 'Juan' (or 'Juanito', as some musicians call him ), his paternal surname is 'de Marcos González' and his maternal surname is 'Cárdenas'.
 * He may be referred to casually as 'Juan de Marcos', but the WP guideline is clear about subsequent use of surname only; that is why I made the change today.
 * Thank you for letting me know what you think about applying the guideline to this article.
 * With kind regards for now;
 * Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 21:08, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Article requests
Hello Neodop! It's great to have you on the Latin music project! I noticed how much you've been contributing to Cuban music-related articles. I was wondering if you take any article requests. The reason I'm asking is because there is a list created which is the Latin Grammy Hall of Fame Award and a number of those inducted recordings are by Cuban artists, but they don't have articles. So that's why I wanted to ask. Cheers! Erick (talk) 04:36, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Gene Wiki articles
Hi! Concering the lead sentence in Gene Wiki articles, as discussed here and here, we have tried to make clear that these articles are not only about the human gene/protein, but also orthologs that exist in other species. The wording that was reached through consensus is perhaps a little awkward, but it is both accurate and concise: The "that" in the above sentence is non-limiting implying that the protein (and gene) exists in other species besides human
 *  is a protein that in humans is encoded by the  gene.

Wikipedia has a wide audience so that it is important the lead sentence be kept dead simple and define the scope of the article. The above sentence accomplishes both. Finally Gene Wiki articles are generally named after the ecommended UniProt name is relatively concise or the HUGO gene symbol. Many of the the page renames that you are making do not conform to this guideline. Boghog (talk) 05:40, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Latin music article suggestions
Hey Neodop! Right now the Latin music project is taking suggestions for what articles should be created and expanded right here. So feel free to add anything like essential Cuban artists or recordings. Also be sure to check out the newly expanded assessment page! Cheers! Erick (talk) 00:00, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I saw your edits on the Amor Prohibido talk page and just want to let you know that the assessment page (same link as above) now has a specific importance scale underneath the main importance scale. I'm doing this because I don't want to see fellow members of the Latin music project fighting amongst ourselves. In regards, Erick (talk) 20:04, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you. It makes sense now. Neodop (talk) 22:37, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
 * No problem, I'm always happy to help out! Cheers! Erick (talk) 22:43, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Whoops sorry about that! The article for tumba francesca made it confusing on whether it was sung in Spanish or French. Thanks for catching that! Erick (talk) 14:41, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

A page you started (Paulina Álvarez) has been reviewed!
Thanks for creating Paulina Álvarez, Neodop!

Wikipedia editor Robvanvee just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

"Great article!"

To reply, leave a comment on Robvanvee's talk page.

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Possible sources for users?
Hello again Neodop! I have been compiling sources for to assist users with Latin music-related articles. If you know any of sources that could be useful for members of the Latin music, like the Diaz Ayala Cuban and Latin American Popular Music Collection, feel free to add them here. Thanks again for your hard work! Erick (talk) 05:17, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Don Sleet
You thanked me for my edits to the article you created on Don Sleet. I should be the one thanking you. For years I wondered who Don Sleet was but never got around to digging up anything about him. You not only did that but put together a whole article about this little-known jazz musician who made a splash in the jazz world, then vanished suddenly after an untimely death. I'm sure that others like myself will be glad to see this addition to Wikipedia jazz articles. Good work! --Alan W (talk) 07:36, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

October 2015
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Getting articles to GA?
Hello again Neodop! You have done a great job with writing on Cuban music-related articles. I was wondering if you plan on nominating any of the articles you have written to GA. I think it would benefit the Latin music project to have more articles on older music since the majority of the good articles on the project are popular recordings from the late 20th century to present. It would be good way to counter systemic bias on Wikipedia. The only good article about Cuban music is Mi Tierra which I heavily contributed to. You don't have to do it though, it's just something I thought you might consider. Erick (talk) 21:38, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Hey, thanks for the nice words, I feel flattered :). As much as I appreciate the whole GA/FA system of "quality assurance", I think it would take too much effort (I'd rather spend hours creating an article than adding a green sticker to an already existing one). But yeah I agree that there is a big bias towards megastars in contrast to "classics", so maybe one day I nominate something just to see how it works (I tend to run, run away at the first sign of bureaucracy!). Anyway, congratulations on keeping the WikiProject up and running, I really appreciate your work! Neodop (talk) 23:55, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Aw, thanks for the consideration and for your compliment. :) Let's make the Latin music project the greatest it can be! Erick (talk) 18:02, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Hey Neodop. I just created a task force dedicated to tropical music which of course includes music originating from Cuba and was wondering if you were interested in joining. Erick (talk) 10:37, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Sure, sounds like a good idea. Neodop (talk) 11:30, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

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Need to list R&B/Calypso for Mardi Gras Mambo
We need to put the R&B (and along with it Calypso) designations back into the "Mardi Gras Mambo" article. I realize that the country version came first, but it is the version by the Hawketts that is by far best known and the one to which the article should mainly address itself--otherwise we are going to have to create a second article to cover the better known version. We may need to re-adres the info. box to the Hawketts's single. I live in New Orleans. The Hawketts version is known by everyone here and is played all over the place during Carnival season and is known by people all over the world as in iconic R&B anthem of the New Orleans Mardi Gras. But, when people form New Orleans (as well as most others) look at the article and see only the genre "country" listed, they are going to think, "Whaaat?" Garagepunk66 (talk) 06:18, 10 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Just wanted to make sure that everything looks right at the article--just wanted to make sure the readers get the right idea. Better to be on the safe side.  I admit that I should have read things over more carefully.  I've been really busy at work lately, yet trying to get out new articles in a slither of time, so I should have been more attentive to some of the details.  I thank you for your work on the article. Garagepunk66 (talk) 16:04, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year Neodop!


Happy New Year! Neodop, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 16:55, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year 2016}} to user talk pages. Dear Neodop, Thank you for helping me, back in April, and have a great New Year! With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 16:55, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Category:TPOK Jazz has been nominated for discussion
Category:TPOK Jazz, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. -- Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 01:53, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

Thank you! ツ
Dear Neodop; Thank you for fixing all my mistakes... Please may I contact you when I have completed the drafting of the next few articles I am preparing? I still have some work to do first, but I would appreciate it if you would be kind enough to review the final drafts before I move them into main article space. This way, they will be cleaner and require less work after publication. Thank you for your consideration. With kind regards for now; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 16:45, 3 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Sure, no problem! Thanks for the kind words, as always :) Keep up the good work! Neodop (talk) 17:05, 3 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much for your positive reply, and also for your compliment.
 * I think it might be a good idea if I created a new section here at your talk page, for each separate project for you to review, don't you think? That way, it will be easy to copy any discussion to the article's talk page, if necessary. I will start the first one in the section below. If I need to do anything differently, please let me know and I'll adjust to your preferences. Thank you very much once again for your helpful assistance; I look forward to working with you.
 * With kind regards;
 * Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 09:04, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Review of "Chanchullo" (single)
Dear Neodop, First, a bit of background: a few weeks ago, I decided to draft an article on Rubén González's album Chanchullo, but then realized that there wasn't already an article on the song itself, written by Israel "Cachao" López, as you know. I therefore decided to do that first and started researching it in books and online. Imagine my surprise when I quickly found the entry you had posted at rateyourmusic! I hope you won't mind that I used it for some of the details; alongside other sources, such as Max Salazar's book Mambo Kingdom. So, here is my final draft: "Chanchullo", ready for your review. I have done as much as I could with the sources at my disposal, but if you have any additional printed materials (in Spanish?) then that would be most helpful in beefing up the sources. Also, please may I suggest that you keep the top template and also the back matter as it is at the moment? I will remove the template and also activate the 'DEFAULTSORT' and the categories at the last minute, just before moving the article into main article space. I have also downloaded the photo of the single on my computer already, in readiness to upload that file into Wikipedia just after moving the article. Thank you very much for all your help! There is obviously no rush; so please only do this when you have the time, or feel like it, and I will wait patiently for your reply on this one. Meanwhile, I will now work on completing my draft of Rubén González's album, which will be our second project, and the third one will be an article I am currently drafting on Raúl Planas. Thanks alot, Neodop! With kind regards for now; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 09:37, 5 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The article looks great. I would name it Chanchullo (danzón) instead since the article is about the song, not the single itself. The reference to the RYM entry that I created a while ago should actually go in the External links sections, and not in the References, because it is not considered a reliable source. In fact I made a mistake: Orestes (Cachao's brother) most likely played piano, not cello, as he did in all of Cachao's albums between 1957 and 1960. Anyway good job, the article looks more than ready for mainspace, extra info can be added over time. :) Neodop (talk) 15:52, 5 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Dear Neodop,
 * Many thanks for your prompt and most helpful reply. I am so glad I asked you, as some of these concerns had occurred to me and your advice will therefore help us publish a better article. Here are a few final points:
 * Now that we're not emphasizing the single, do you think we need to disambiguate at all? Would the song not be considered the primary topic, per WP:PTOPIC, rather than Rubén González's album, or any other usage?
 * I will switch to the infobox template for song and exclude the photo of the single.
 * As you suggested, I will relocate the RYM ref to the External links section.
 * Ditto for changing 'cello' to 'piano'.
 * If all of these changes meet with your approval, then I'll apply them and publish in main article space after your next reply. I really appreciate your advice and encouragements; thank you.
 * With kind regards;
 * Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 17:14, 5 March 2017 (UTC)


 * I agree that it merits being the primary topic, I didn't think about that! A hatnote linking the album should suffice to disambiguate both. The single infobox is alright, I would keep it since the song infobox is more generic and some info would be lost, I think. And definitely keep the picture, it makes it look so much better. Check the The Peanut Vendor for a similar article. :) Best wishes, Neodop (talk) 17:36, 5 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your prompt reply, with agreement about primary topic and also for your continued advice re-infobox. I just checked, and all the existing parameters in 'single' also exist in 'song', except "A-side=", which I daresay is secondary but I am happy to be corrected. I agree that the picture makes it look better, and since the 'song' infobox supports it, we could keep it as you suggest. In summary, we'd end up with the 'song' infobox (as shown in the latest version of the draft), without losing anything other than the "A-side=" parameter. Would you be happy with that? Thanks for your advice, either way.
 * With kind regards;
 * Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 17:53, 5 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The advantage of the single infobox is not only the A side but also the image (songs don't have a cover per se) and the timeline. Normally the song infobox is used for songs that are notable but were not released as a single. Just my two cents. Best Neodop (talk) 18:04, 5 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Well, please be assured your two cents are worth their weight in platinum...
 * Thank you so much for your patience with me, and for your sound advice, as ever. I am very happy to use the 'single' infobox, as you suggested so cogently. I think we're now all set for moving it into main space, thanks to you; I am very grateful.
 * With kind regards;
 * Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 19:48, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

"Que nos dejen solitos", from the 1994 album Son Inconcluso ツ
Dear Neodop; Out of curiosity, have you ever heard this track? It's a son composed by Lilí Martinez and recorded by Raúl Planas and Rubén González on their 1994 album. To my ear, it is rhythmically very reminiscent of Arsenio's "Cangrejo fue a estudiar", with Martinez adding more elaborate melodies and harmonies than on "Cangrejo". The 1994 recording is superb and well worth the purchase of the album if you don't have it in your collection already; there's a great tres solo by Arturo "Alambre dulce" Harvey, plus fabulous coro singing and trumpet playing. Rubén's piano and Cachaito's bass provide a very steady and most effective groove. Planas also delivers wonderful lead vocals, singing in an almost recitative style, similar to Ibrahim Ferrer's vocals improvisations at the end of his recording of "Bruca maniguá". If you liked "Cangrejo fue a estudiar", then I daresay you'd most likely enjoy "Que nos dejen solitos". With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 12:03, 25 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Hey, thanks for the recommendation. I just downloaded the album and that song is one of the best! You're right it sounds a lot like old-school Arsenio. :) Best, Neodop (talk) 13:55, 25 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Dear Neodop ; so glad you liked it too! Have a great weekend.
 * With kind regards;
 * Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 14:22, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

ygm

 * You've got mail. Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 00:10, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

About "Coros de Clavé"
Dear Neodop, I have to respectfully disagree with you on the "Coros de Clavé" subject. Although I am very much aware of the Sublette's affirmation that the denomination "Coros de Clave" derives from the Catalan "Coros de Clavé", I would like to point out an extremely important fact: to the extent of my knowledge, Sublette is the only scholar that makes such affirmation. The existence of Coros de Clavé is very well documented by Cuban scholars and it is recognized by almost everybody. For example, renowned musicologist Zoila Lapique thoroughly expands on the subject in her book: Cuba Colonial: Música, compositores e intérpretes. 1570-1902. Publicaciones de la oficina del historiador de la ciudad. Ediciones Boloña, La Habana. 2007, p. 260. but she never mentions a link between the "Clavé" choirs and the " Clave" choirs. My personal opinion is that for a Cuban-Spanish speaking person this sort of reasoning would be utterly nonsensical; because of the fact that the word "Clave" has a very specific musical meaning that everybody have been aware of in Cuba since time immemorial, and was also used during the 19th century to name other musical genres like "punto en clave" or "punto de clave". I consider this information so important, that really makes me sad to see inaccurate or poorly sustained affirmations exposed to the general public in regard to it. Therefore, I would like to ask you to please consider the revision to your entry. Of course, if you can provide any other cross-reference on the subject I will greatly appreciate it. Sincerely, --Ernesto53 (talk) 02:40, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for your feedback. There are certaily others who have made this claim before Sublette, particularly Odilio Urfé (in África en América Latina, 1977, compiled by Manuel Moreno Fraginals). He states: "El nombre de "coros de clave" es una corrupción de los llamados coros de Anselmo Clavé, el compositor catalán." This has been repeated by others since, e.g. "El vocablo clave deriva de clavija de los astilleros y es un arcaísmo castellano. En el caso del género coros de clave es una corrupción de los coros del compositor catalán Anselmo Clavé." (Fabio Betancur Alvarez, Sin clave y bongó no hay son, 1999). And Sublette most likely got it from there as well. Given Urfé's prestige and the fact that it had been quoted and claimed in so many reliable sources, the explanation should be kept. If you are able to find a source that denies or contradicts this, feel free to add it. I personally have no idea if Urfé and the others are right or not, but this is irrelevant, since Wikipedia is based on verifiability not truth. Neodop (talk) 14:08, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

In my opinion, it would be a great stretch of academic rigor to present the Catalan origin of the name "coros de clave" as a fact; considering that only two scholars mention it, as opposed to many other reputable scholars such as Eduardo Sánchez de Fuentes, Emilio Grenet, Alejo Carpentier, Argeliers León, Maria Teresa Linares, Zoila Lapique, Cristóbal Díaz Ayala and Helio Orovio. However, I think it is fair to mention it as what it is, an opinion, like: According to Ned Sublette, etc… I would also like to point out that the following affirmation: Development - The coros de clave were introduced by Catalan composer José Anselmo Clavé and became popular between the 1880s and the 1910s.[1], is an obvious mistake, since José Anselmo Clavé never introduced anything himself in Cuba, but just created the "Coros de Clavé" in Spain. As Ned Sublette states: "the tradition was brought to Cuba, becoming popular in the black communities of Havana…"--Ernesto53 (talk) 15:32, 19 April 2017 (UTC)


 * I completely agree with all you said, and thank you for pointing out my errors, Clavé never set foot on Cuba that's for sure :). Neodop (talk) 18:54, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

It is indeed a privilege and a great pleasure to collaborate with you in such an important endeavor as Wikipedia. My congratulations and regards...--Ernesto53 (talk) 19:33, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

I read the article and found it excellent. Great improvement. Kudos! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ernesto53 (talk • contribs) 19:43, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

AWB approved
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Thank you!
Dear Neodop; Thank you for creating the interesting article about Coralia López. As always, it is well written and informative. With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 15:52, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the kind words, my pleasure. Neodop (talk) 20:57, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

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List of best-selling Latin albums
I am just about wrapped with the best-selling Latin albums on my sandbox and was wondering if you know any Cuban records that have sold at least 2 million copies. So far, I've only got Mi Tierra by Gloria Estefan and Buena Vista Social Club's self-titled album. Erick (talk) 14:02, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Hey, I don't think there are any other big-selling albums by Cuban artists (well, Jon Secada, Pitbull, Camilla Cabello, but they're not "Latin music"). The biggest selling album of Cuban music by a non-Cuban is A Little Bit of Mambo (it's in English and the guy is German, but musically it's Latin, unlike Nouveau Flamenco (album), which is only "flamenco" in name). A couple of suggestions off the top of my head:
 * Gipsy Kings, Mecano and La Oreja de Van Gogh have several albums that sold a few million. Hijas del Tomate also sold a few millions in Europe. And many pop singers like David Bisbal (first 2 albums), Bustamante, Chenoa...
 * Also, media outlets often mentioned that Rocío Jurado sold 15, 30, 35 million albums... obviously too many, but more than Rocío Dúrcal, who is on the list. Other singers often said to have sold >50 million albums are Raphael and Roberto Carlos. Anyway, hope this helps and best of luck! Neodop (talk) 20:37, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Oh yes! I was thinking about the Gipsy Kings as well. So far, I've seen claimed sales of only a million for Mosaique and haven't seen worldwide sales for their 1995 greatest hits album (which is 3rd the best-selling Latin album here in the US). I was thinking maybe the older records like the ones from Irakere might've possibly sold at least 2 million, but that might've been for the singles and not the albums. I'll look into the other and I thank you for your input, it was quite insightful! Erick (talk) 00:19, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

"Molinos en ritmo" listed at Redirects for discussion
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Bongos Wikipage
Hello, I am responding here to your recent reversal of my edit to to the bongos Wikipage relating to the origin of the bongos. The reference I used on this most recent edit is from a different page of the same book I had used to support and earlier edit. Page 450 does specifically state the Naker as a possible origin of the bongo. Here is a quote: "Antique origins are also evident in the bongos and timbales: the first a pair of small single - headed drums (of flesh or plastic) reminiscent of the naker [Naqareh], the second - a pair of larger open-ended drums evocative of many..." . Is this sufficient to support the edit? If not, how can I change the edit to make it valid? I apologize for errors in how to use this chat page. I am not experienced with Wikipedia. Ben (talk) 16:02, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, thanks for your message, I have expanded the origins section which did lack some detail. It's definitely a fringe hypothesis, but I have cited it accordingly. Neodop (talk) 02:08, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

List of best-selling Latin music artists
Hey Neodop! It's been a while. This time I present to you the List of best-selling Latin music artists! What do you think? Are there any Cuban artists aside from Celia Cruz (who I already included) that might be missing? Some that come to mind that might've possibly sold at least 10 million include Sonora Matancera, but I'm not so sure. Erick (talk) 22:42, 13 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @Magiciandude, Buena Vista Social Club has probably sold over 10 million, I can't think of any other right now. The Sonora were too early to sell that much, I think. Neodop (talk) 00:18, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

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