User talk:Netherzone/Archive 8

Start 2023 archive

Happy New Year, Netherzone!


Happy New Year! Netherzone, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.

– Davey 2010 Talk 00:44, 1 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks Davey! The best to you as well for a great 2023. Netherzone (talk) 01:04, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
 * happy new years guys, can I ask for your help in editing since Netherzone is a master of wikipedia. Thank you again. Shawnyounai (talk) 11:40, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Happy New Year Elves

 * Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Happy New Year elves}} to send this message

CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 20:41, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Those elves are carving a new article nicely! Thanks Captain Raju. Netherzone (talk) 20:43, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

New Pages Patrol newsletter January 2023
Hello , The October drive reduced the backlog from 9,700 to an amazing 0! Congratulations to who led with 2084 points. See this page for further details. The queue is steadily rising again and is approaching 2,000. It would be great if <2,000 were the “new normal”. Please continue to help out even if it's only for a few or even one patrol a day. won the 2022 cup for 28,302 article reviews last year - that's an average of nearly 80/day. There was one Gold Award (5000+ reviews), 11 Silver (2000+), 28 Iron (360+) and 39 more for the 100+ barnstar. led again for the 4th year by clearing 49,294 redirects. For the full details see the Awards page and the Hall of Fame. Congratulations everyone!
 * Backlog
 * 2022 Awards

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Discussions with the WMF The PageTriage open letter signed by 444 users is bearing fruit. The Growth Team has assigned some software engineers to work on PageTriage, the software that powers the NewPagesFeed and the Page Curation toolbar. WMF has submitted dozens of patches in the last few weeks to modernize PageTriage's code, which will make it easier to write patches in the future. This work is helpful but is not very visible to the end user. For patches visible to the end user, volunteers such as and  have been writing patches for bug reports and feature requests. The Growth Team also had a video conference with the NPP coordinators to discuss revamping the landing pages that new users see.


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"Introducing viewpoints"
Hi Re Woovee's latest reverts on T.Rex (band) - I fail to see how a neutrality disputed tag could constitute "introducing opinions" however (1). I would appreciate your opinion on Woovee's reasoning (2) Where do I go to escalate this? Romomusicfan (talk) 07:45, 4 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi, I thought this issue was settled a few years back, but I guess not. I don't agree with Woovee's perspective or reasoning on this content disagreement.


 * Rather than escalate the issue, perhaps some type of mediation may be in order, for example, you could post something on the WikiProject Rock Music talk page. Or you may wish to seek WP:Dispute resolution. Here are some possible notice boards: WP:Dispute resolution noticeboard; WP:Requests for comment/Art, architecture, literature, and media is probably the most relevant for music stuff; or WP:Third opinion (I've never had much luck with that one).


 * Another approach that might de-escalate things, would be to include a balance of views in the article. The sources would need to support both views. So if the Paytress citation (WITH page numbers) supports one side, another citation(s) should be added to support the other point of view. Paytress is not the end-all authority, other writers viewpoints are valid as well. So the article could say something like, "Some music historians (or critics) believe the band ended with the death of Bolan, while others state that....."


 * On another note, if the personal attacks, incivility or insults against you continue, you could file a case at WP:ANI.


 * Hope that helps, and that you have yourself a happy new year! Netherzone (talk) 00:22, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks Netherzone, unfortunately it seems Woovee has a very definite concept of what the T.Rex page should be - one that conforms to a certain set of views within Bolan fandom - and is prepared to wait around for months for things to quieten down to reassert this viewpoint on the page again and again.Romomusicfan (talk) 05:10, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay, let's see where we get with this. Please add your own summary to the relevant section. Romomusicfan (talk) 09:17, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * FYI, I believe it is a requirement (and if not, a courtesy) to notify all involved editors that there is a discussion that involves/concerns them on a noticeboard. Also, it helps others to understand better if you include diffs. Netherzone (talk) 13:35, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Does it not automatically notify them if they are tagged? Romomusicfan (talk) 16:04, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't know if it automatically notifies them or not, you might want to ask an administrator or a more technically inclined editor. I found out about your report from your message here on my talk page - I didn't get a ping from the drama board. Netherzone (talk) 16:43, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

, Thank you for the work you are doing on the article after receiving the "go ahead" to edit per the DRN. I changed the word "scathing" to "strong", because it seemed overly dramatic for an encyclopedia article. If you disagree with that, we can discuss here or on the article talk page. Thanks for opening the DRN. I would have participated more vigourously but the timing is not so great for me. Know that I agree with you on the key points. Netherzone (talk) 16:53, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks  I did consider "strong" but scathing seemed to better convey the sheer negative emotion expressed by many on the Bolan Scene to these bands.  It's what drives someone like Woovee to do what they do.  It's what results in every record played at a T.Rex convention being intersperced with proanity-ridden rants about these bands.  It's militant Bolan fandom at its worst.  However I bow to your point re keeping things encyclopedic.Romomusicfan (talk) 09:30, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Barnstar 4 u
Why thank you very much for your kindness,, I really appreciate the feedback. Hope you have a wonderful 2023, and keep up the good editorial work, and article creations! Best regards, Netherzone (talk) 14:56, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Help to edit
I want you to help us edit the page: Charles chinedu Ndukauba — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wisecharlie (talk • contribs) 23:05, 12 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you for reaching out. I'm very sorry, but I can't help with that. The article Charles chinedu Ndukauba, is up for deletion because he does not meet Wikipedia criteria for notability for actors, per WP:NACTOR or WP:GNG. It is doubtful the article will be kept. I know that must be disappointing to hear. He seems like a promising 15-year old actor, who has his career ahead of him. It's WP:TOOSOON for an encyclopedia article. Perhaps in a few years there will be enough coverage for an article, but not now. Also, it seems that this is an autobiography, please read these two links: WP:AUTOBIO and WP:COI for Wikipedia guidance on writing an article about oneself (which is strongly discouraged). Again, sorry I cannot help. Netherzone (talk) 03:20, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Draft: Muzeum Susch
Article

Hello Netherzone, thank you so much for your very helpful comment on the Muzeum Susch article I am trying to publish. This has been the first constructive comment I have received, prior to this I was utterly confused. I just wanted to ask, do you suggest that every external link should be cited properly rather than linked? Even in the temporary exhibitions section?

Thanks Wisdomcreate (talk) 08:31, 25 January 2023 (UTC)


 * @Wisdomcreate, Yes, those ideally should be linked to sources independent from the museum, such as exhibition reviews. But I understand this is a new museum that may not have gotten a lot of art-critical press yet. If reviews do not yet exist due to the newness of the institution, go ahead and link the temp. shows to the museum's website as you did, but don't be alarmed if another editor may come along and tag the article with "too many primary sources". You can give a reference that is repeated more than once a ref-name - I will do that for the Wall St. Journal reference - watch what I do by examining the edit history and my edit summary.
 * Re: passing notability, if there are three solid, in-depth articles (or in-depth descriptions/chapters in books) that is enough to pass notability. I think Wall St. Journal, New York Magazine, and Financial Times establishes notability, and I do not think it will be deleted. Some of the other refs, that do not have an author's by-line, are probably (but not conclusively) based on press releases, are less supportive of notability. While the interview with Kulczyk is excellent for information, interviews are considered primary sources.
 * Leave another message here when you improve the referencing on the temp. exhibitions and I will re-review it. Thank you for creating the draft article. I find the new museum to be a fascinating concept for a museum that is also very supportive of women artists, and is architecturally interesting. I think it will be a positive contribution to the encyclopedia.
 * I will now create the "ref-name" for the WSJ now, and go through the article for general clean up if needed. Netherzone (talk) 15:08, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I also noticed that some of the claims do not have a citation associated with them. Try to have a citation after each paragraph, otherwise the article can be tagged with "more citations needed" - generally every claim should have a citation. That is where the "Named references" can come in handy. Also, I noticed that in the Permanent site-specific installations" section you are adding the commas after a citation. Punctuation should always go first, then the citation. I fixed several of the times this occurred (with periods) further up in the article, but please do clean up the stray commas in the site-specific installation section. Netherzone (talk) 15:31, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Recent Deletion
Hey, I noticed you reverted my changes on the Ride the Cyclone wiki. That was a informative section about different productions of the show so I was saying where the main production currently is. Akrav123 (talk) 15:27, 22 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Please do not use Wikipedia to advertise or promote things or events. Also, all content must be sourced. Please stop adding it back; take it to the talk page instead (instead of here) to discuss before reintroducing the edit. WP is an encyclopedia, not a free-advertizing forum. See: WP:PROMO and WP:SPAM. Use social media instead, or advertise in a newspaper. Netherzone (talk) 15:38, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

January music
-- Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:33, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

back from vacation, 1 1/2 days of pics missing --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:53, 31 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Great! Hope you enjoyed yourself. I'll have a look at the new photos. I'm traveling at the moment so may not get to it for a couple days. Netherzone (talk) 17:02, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * YES - Melitta Muszely died, RIP - the other story is 10 years old OTD ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:11, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, the Melitta Muszely article is very good, she made such an impact during her life time. Rest In Peace. I couldn't find your 2023 vacation photos (maybe not uploaded yet), but had a very good time looking back through the 2022 images again. Thanks for all your great contributions, and for keeping in touch, my friend. Netherzone (talk) 14:29, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Women in Red in February 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 07:28, 30 January 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Gambia Castle
Hi there, You were so helpful with my first page on Teststrip Gallery I wonder if you would mind having a quick look at this one on Gambia Castle, another important New Zealand artist run gallery. Cheers, Jim Manymanydogs (talk) 01:39, 31 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello and thanks for your message, @Manymanydogs. After quick read of the article I noticed that there were two bare URLs in the body of the article. The first one (windowgallery) should be turned into a proper citation. The second one, the archived gambiacastle via the Wayback machine, should be turned into an External Link. ELs go after the references, and should point to an actual link within the date range. Lastly, you need to add a section called References, and then add the template: reflist enclosed within double curly brackets {} on either side of the the word reflist. That will create a properly formatted Reference section. In general, the article can be improved by adding citations in reliable sources that are specifically about Gambia Castle Gallery, since notability is not inherited from the notability of the artists a gallery shows. Try to find additional secondary sources that are independent of the gallery and its artists, that are significant coverage WP:SIGCOV in reliable sources WP:RS, that are about the gallery such that it can meet WP:NCORP and fulfill WP:CORPDEPTH criteria. Otherwise. there may be a possibility it could be deleted. Hope that helps. Netherzone (talk) 02:09, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much for that. The windows url is a bit embarrassing! I am using the visual editor and not so sure how to do the reference format but will look it up today. And yes see what you mean about the Wayback Machine ref. Appreciate your help    Manymanydogs (talk) 21:28, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Manymanydogs, The article looks great, and I see it was reviewed. I made a couple minor improvements - added a category and a short description; created a "See also" section and linked Teststrip; reformatted the External Link to the archived website per manual of style. Netherzone (talk) 02:57, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Another sock of Nalanidil now blocked - romabse
you @Netherzone, are against turks and a enemy of turks, you take rombase sources and you made false statemants about there sources. you claimed sepetcides was christian before 1923 what is still not true here romabse. source: http://rombase.uni-graz.at/cgi-bin/art.cgi?src=data/ethn/work/basket.en.xml: Source of Rombase: ''Their ancestors lived as nomads in the area of Saloniki up to the war between Greece and Turkey (1920 – 1921). After the Treaty of Lausanne (1923), in which a population exchange was agreed on, they had the choice to either change their religion or to leave Greece. So, the Sepečides split up into a "Turkish" and a "Greek" group. The Turkish group traveled to Mersin and the Izmir area, those who stayed in Greece converted to Greek-Orthodox faith, left Saloniki and moved to Volos''. Menrot (talk) 16:32, 29 January 2023 (UTC)


 * What other accounts have you used? Netherzone (talk) 16:34, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Netherzone, Why are you taking Rombase as a source without permission and why are you falsifying there text? Menrot (talk) 17:32, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Go away. Do not post here again, you are obviously a sock puppet making trouble and casting aspersions. Netherzone (talk) 17:52, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * my dear @Netherzone,
 * The only one making slanders is you, with your falsification of sources in articles, and your hatred of everything Turkish. In addition, @Nalanidil and sockpuppets are globally blocked, the idea that others also recognize what is happening here doesn't you come up with?Menrot (talk) 17:55, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

Removing templates
Dear Netherzone, how are you? I am writing to ask you if you can assist in the process of removing the "issues templetes" on the page of Menotti Lerro which you helped to fix a while ago. I noticed that someone did it but another user did not agree with it... I am not sure how it is possible to do it. I would kindly like to ask you to help With it. With very best wishes. Gingeksace (talk) 10:47, 7 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello @Gingeksace, thank you for your message. The issues with the articles are not resolved yet, therefore the maintenance tags (issues templates) should remain.
 * The articles are still promotional and the COI issues haven't yet been resolved. And there are still too many articles about him and his projects. These need to get integrated into his main article because they are redundant and they simply exist to advertise and promote the artist/poet. The encyclopedia is not for self-promotion nor promotion of him, by his family members, friends or PR agent. There is no deadline to make those changes, please continue to be patient. I know this is not the answer you were seeking, and for that I am sorry, however the integrity of the encyclopedia is of utmost importance. Read WP:PROMO, and WP:WEBHOST. I suggest that you make a personal website for him instead of using the encyclopedia as free advertising. Best regards, Netherzone (talk) 14:58, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Netherzone, thank you a lot for this.
 * I wish to tell you something maybe I did not make clear in the past:
 * 1) I am not Menotti Lerro, but I like to work to his great and voluminous opera.
 * 2) I DID NOT create the articles to promote the author but only because I thought (and I think) he earned to be on Wikipedia. And I would aspect a simple evaluetion of each article and its requirements to be on the FREE Enciclopedia without stressing too much about non-existent promotional proposals.
 * 3) I am not interested to create website about this author or others. Maybe you can suggest it to every user creating a page about an author and his opera?
 * About myself, I think Wikipedia should have simple rules and respected for all, but I do not see it indeed around...
 * 4) I did not touch ML articles since you flagged every article with COI, therefore I do not see after so many months I just ask something because I noticed what happened with two different users and you start suggesting creating websites about him... (it is a a bit bizzarre).
 * Anyway, thanks for your suggestions and help and kindness.
 * Best wishes. Gingeksace (talk) 17:21, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your response, however it is clear that your main purpose here is to promote Menotti Lerro and his projects based on your editing history - you will find that documented HERE and HERE. Then there is the matter of the MANY photos of Lerro, his work, his performances, his lectures, meetings with the press, in cafés, etc. which you claimed as your own work or with you listed as the author; but then changed the story saying you had contacted him by email to get them. It is obvious that a direct connection exists that is much deeper than that of an unconnected "fan" or "enthusiast". Regards, Netherzone (talk) 18:17, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I think you exagerete with "this problems". We all know that behind almost every page of living authors there is often someone close to the same author and often we accept it. I even read it is not a big problem if the author is indeed Enciclopedic (he should just declare it). Maybe a bit more of flexibility would be necessary...
 * It is not nice to say "after you changed the story"... I just affirmed what I did, and it is nothing too bad...
 * Please, do not be so focused on the "COI problem" and help the pages to be developed if they earned a place on this FREE Encyclopedia. Life is too short and hard to be so strict even on "problems" related to Wikipedia...
 * Anyway, as you like it ;-)
 * Regards. Gingeksace (talk) 18:31, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * You have left behind a huge amount of clean up work for other editors on en-WP and on Commons. End of conversation. Netherzone (talk) 18:51, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Deploying emergency kitten
Hope this helps with the "think of something else" that you probably need after taking part in that AfD.

(talk) 22:54, 3 February 2023 (UTC) 


 * Thank you @CT55555 you are truly a kind soul! I will now think of something else, thanks again for reminding me to do so. Netherzone (talk) 23:00, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
 * aww kittens. While I think they're the answer to everything, Draft:Michaela Gleave is much more palatable. As always, appreciate any insight you or @CT55555 may have. Hope you're having a good weekend.  Star   Mississippi  02:18, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
 * @Star Mississippi - always a good way to "think of something else" is to work on a new project and to have kittens keeping an eye out on things. Thanks for nudging that draft - what a fascinating artist, I was not aware of her work and am glad to now be aware. Netherzone (talk) 01:40, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Unless that project is yarn, in which case kittens will be a little too helpful!
 * And same, part of what I love about patrolling AfC is the gems we find where the editor has a great subject - just needs some help. Star   Mississippi  02:40, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Kittens at work... Cat's cradle (49126791966).jpg Netherzone (talk) 20:34, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 4 February 2023
 * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:45, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Reames Bio
I finally got around to archiving the various articles that have been written about Richard Reames. I noticed a recent removal Reames teaching at John C. Campbell school of folk art due to no citation. This got me looking for a citation. while I haven't yet come across one I did come across a good citation for Reames being the international arborsculpture coordinator to the growing Village pavillion at the 2005 world Expo. "In 2005 Richard Reames was appointed international arborsculpture coordinator to the Growing Village, one of the unique attractions at the 2005 World Expo..." TREENEWS Spring/Summer 2005 Written by John May I have the magazine here in front of me. Can you update the article? if I can find a John c campbell reference I'll add that. Slowart (talk) 01:17, 6 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello @Slowart, and thanks for this information. The info re: the coordination of the GV at the World Expo would be particularly helpful. Can you please post links if they are available online, and if not how I can find these in a public library, or archive or via a scan or...? The more information in reliable sources the better. Netherzone (talk) 01:36, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Apparently the article is not available online.
 * I can photocopy the article. How should I transmit it to you?
 * I see the citation was used at one time to support the use of Arborsculpture as the name of the art form. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ATree_shaping%2FArchive_16/ See Questionable_Citations
 * Slowart (talk) 03:12, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, do you have dates for the photographs in the article? They should all have consistent captions, with title, ideally the date of the inception/conception of the piece, and date the photo was taken, if that is at all possible. Netherzone (talk) 01:50, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, do you have dates for the photographs in the article? They should all have consistent captions, with title, ideally the date of the inception/conception of the piece, and date the photo was taken, if that is at all possible. Netherzone (talk) 01:50, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Photos- date taken::image         = File:Richard Reames in 2016.jpg (December 1 2016)
 * image Peace in Cherry = July 24, 2013
 * image Ash Rings= July 15, 2021
 * Image love = September 5, 2016
 * Image Birch= 9-29-06
 * Japan Shovel= May 12 2002 Slowart (talk) 04:10, 6 February 2023 (UTC)Slowart (talk) 04:13, 6 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Lastly, do you have any information on John Gathright, as I'm wondering if he might be wiki-notable. Netherzone (talk) 01:52, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * No doubt Dr. John (Johnsan) Gathright is a notable person. https://www.gov-online.go.jp/pdf/hlj/20210701/hlj202107_all_THE_JAPANESE_AND_THE_FORESTS.pdf
 * https://www.johngathright.com/
 * https://www.treeclimbing.jp/index.files/johngathright.pdf
 * If you can search in Japanese you will find lots. He also an author, public media figure, founder of tree climbing japan.
 * Slowart (talk) 05:05, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for this information,. I'll make some updates in the next days or weeks. If I have any questions I will reach out. If there is something you would like to email me, such as a scan or photocopy, there is an "email this user" link for me - you should find that link on either the left side bar (if you use the Vector2010 "appearence preference") or on the right side bar if you use the new default Vector2022 (sorry but this has gotten a little confusing since WP decided to update the design appearance of things a few weeks ago)...nevertheless there should be an email link somewhere on my user page or user talk page. Netherzone (talk) 21:30, 6 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Unable to find email link on your User page or this talk page. (sad face)Slowart (talk) 01:59, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * @Slowart, I think the issue is that both the sender (you) and recipient (me) need to have email enabled in their user preferences (according to Emailing users). Go to your Preferences, the first tab should be User Profile, scroll-down to Email and set that up. Then see if "Email this user" shows up on my user page or talk page (on the sidebar if you are using a computer - I don't know where that link would be if you edit from a phone or tablet. Things have gotten more complicated since WP changed from Vector2010 to Vector2022. If you continue to have trouble with emailing, try asking at the WP:HELPDESK or the WP:TEAHOUSE. Netherzone (talk) 03:21, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, there isn't a link on your user page for "Email this user", and I guess attachments can't be sent via WP mail ?
 * Is it the TREE NEWS article that you are trying to send? Let me think of another way to send it - like perhaps WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request may be able to help. What is the exact title of the article by John May, and page numbers in TREE NEWS Spring/Summer 2005 edition? Netherzone (talk) 20:01, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Is it this article "The Art of Arborsculpture" page 37, I found a reference on Wikitionary, but there is no link. It seems to be a publication from the UK. Let me know if that's correct, and we will go from there. Netherzone (talk) 20:06, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Is it this article "The Art of Arborsculpture" page 37, I found a reference on Wikitionary, but there is no link. It seems to be a publication from the UK. Let me know if that's correct, and we will go from there. Netherzone (talk) 20:06, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

I've updated the photo captions with dates. If you have a moment, please check for accuracy. On another note, were you able to find anything regarding his teaching? Thanks and best, Netherzone (talk) 01:10, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Withrow, Minnesota
I've been making some enormous edits to Withrow, Minnesota. If you are able to have look at the article I would appreciate it. Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 20:22, 6 February 2023 (UTC)


 * I'll have a look. Netherzone (talk) 21:31, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * @Magnolia677, I read through your changes, and I understand the rationale for the edits. The article was improved by the trimming, especially getting rid of some of the unnecessary genealogical material and the geology content. The only area that seemed to be not be an improvement was cutting some of the history section re: indigenous people's use of the area prior to settlement. I think there should be at least a few sentences backed up with reliable sources at the beginning of the section. That's my personal opinion of course, and when I've worked on articles about places I've always tried to include some pre-colonial, pre-settlement information for context. I think it improves the encyclopedia to have that background, as cultures existed in North America long before present times. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, and thank you for your hard work on the article. Netherzone (talk) 00:19, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, I just ran it thru a COPY VIO check, and parts are closely paraphrased to a couple websites. about 45% which is not great. I;m sure they are not your edits, but perhaps a little more clean up is called for. Netherzone (talk) 00:26, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot. If you have time, please feel free to re-insert content. Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 09:14, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * @Magnolia677, I did some research into the history today, and unfortunately I'm unable to verify the claims at this time, and don't have the spare time right now to do a deep search. However AGF the sources could be verified with library research. It will take me a while to get to this, so I am going to move the content to the talk page so any interested editor can work on it or chime in and improve in the meantime. Netherzone (talk) 00:25, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for your help. Magnolia677 (talk) 08:35, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

February songs
yesterday's cantata, 300 years later --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:21, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

today's stories are about two pieces we sang at church, today. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:03, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

today a book, Alte Liebe, for Valentine --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:47, 14 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you, as always for sharing your contributions! Netherzone (talk) 23:07, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your interest! - today the regional festival - DYK of 13 years ago ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:22, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * My story on 24 February is about Artemy Vedel (TFA by Amitchell235), and I made a suggestion for more peace, - what do you think? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:41, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Gerda! This morning I saw the article on Vedel on the main page. Congratulations on another great contribution. What really drew me in at first was the terrific image of the postage stamp with that wonderful representation of her. Regarding your suggestion for more peace, yes! I'm all for that. (And can't believe there is still debate whether or not a simple thing like an infobox is controversial when it is so helpful.) I always try to place an infobox in articles I create, if there's enough content to support one. They are a very efficient way to quickly absorb basic information on a topic, especially for those of us (millions!) who are visually-oriented thinkers. I appreciate your good work that inspires so many, and have learned a lot from you over the years about classical music and opera, and of course about Wikipedia in general! Netherzone (talk) 15:58, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, but I need to emphasize that it is Amitchell's work (I reviewed DYK and FAC though), and Artemy is a man. Please say what you wrote on Talk:Robert le diable, best not general, but specifically. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:50, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
 * today: two women whose birthday we celebrate today, 99 and 90! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:57, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: January 2023
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Cho, Young Dong
Hello and thanks for taking an interest in this page.

Regarding the excessive use of primary sources, all of the facts in the article are taken from the Seoul Art Guide, which is referenced. I will add another secondary source for these facts today. The quotation about his work is from Shim, Sang Yong, a professor of Art history at the University of Seoul. I would say that the majority of the article is based on secondary sources therefore.

Regarding not finding any sources for authenticating his work in permanent collections, one of the sources is included in the article - reference 5 - and the holding in the National Museum of Modern and Contemporary Art can be found here:

https://www.mmca.go.kr/eng/collections/collectionsDetailPage.do

I will continue to work on the article and will contact you in a month or so with a view to removing the flag.

I am adding a monograph reference today, which is also a source about his exhibitions and career, and contains an essay by the art historian Lim, Young Bang.

Thanks again for your interest. Healthps (talk) 12:05, 21 February 2023 (UTC)


 * @Healthps, hello and thanks for your note, I have a couple questions below. Just so you know, I don't doubt his notability, however I do find it odd that I could not verify any of the museum collections. I usually check those to confirm whether or not an artist meets criteria #4 of NARTIST. The link you posted above points to a page without an image, and all the fields are blank, Artist, Title, Date, Dimensions, Classification, Accession, and Exhibition are blank. There is no mention of him whatsoever, so it doesn't verify that he's in the collection. Could you please double check the link you meant to post here when you find a moment, and make sure it is correct? Also, is there another spelling of his name that could be used in searching, or his name in Korean? Thanks in advance. Netherzone (talk) 00:32, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, apologies. I thought the link worked but it doesn't. There's something up with the MMCA website - it doesn't seem to do linkable pages in its collection catalogue.
 * The collection search is available from https://www.mmca.go.kr/collections/collectionsList.do
 * I used cho youngdong to search for him and found 2 of his paintings in the permanent collection, but not currently on display.
 * The Wikipedia page on him has been taken down by another editor on the grounds that the biography isn't full enough and that the entry doesn't include at least 3 independent quality references. I have written to the editor to highlight three good references already in the article (a book, an essay and a Korean art database entry), and the brief but complete biography in the Wikipedia entry. I have omitted some facts about his life because of the historical political situation in South Korea in the 1970 and 80s. Healthps (talk) 07:28, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello @Healthps, I'm glad you reached out! The article on Cho Young Dong has not been "taken down", it was simply moved from article space to draft space by a very experienced editor, @Onel5969 who is in fact the 2022 New Page Reviewer of the Year. The Draft:Cho Young-dong can continue to be improved in draft space until it is ready for the encyclopedia. Please don't be disappointed, there is nothing "wrong" with draft space as a "holding area" while notability is being confirmed and an article is being improved. It's important that the claims in an article on artists are verifiable WP:V - and through the sourcing notability is established per the general notability guideline WP:GNG and/or the "notable artist" subject notability guideline WP:NARTIST.
 * I was able to find the two 1987 paintings in the MMCA collection at this link:, using the spelling of his name without the hyphen or space (Cho Youngdong). I've added that to the draft. So that puts him a little closer to meeting WP:NARTIST criteria #4. If we can find another couple of verifiable collections, then he will be a clear pass of NARTIST. As far as meeting GNG, I'll have another look at the sourcing. Unfortunately, database entries are not considered significant coverage WP:SIGCOV; things like in-depth articles about him or exhibition reviews in notable magazines or newspapers (or coverage in a book) are, as long as they are in reliable sources that are fully independent.
 * I'm confident that he is notable and that the draft will eventually make it to article space, no worries about that. However it still needs some work, and I am happy to help out with that. BTW, I am a volunteer editor and have a full-time job (and am currently traveling) so my contributions may take a little time. All best to you, Netherzone (talk) 15:44, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your helpful reply and offer. I'll continue to work on the article and welcome any improvements. The database I referred to is the Seoul Art Guide I think, which is produced by a reputable art foundation in South Korea. It's not really a database. Healthps (talk) 11:06, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Charles A. Birnbaum

 * Thank you so much for the glistening star! I agree that our global cultural landscapes are fragile and should be protected, honored and understood as they can disappear to easily when not looked after and protected. The article is a wonderful contribution to the encyclopedia, and it was really a pleasure to learn about Birnbaum and The Cultural Landscape Foundation. I look forward to becoming more familiar with other article creations of yours. Happy editing! Netherzone (talk) 22:34, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

Naomi Ross
Hi Netherzone thank you again for removing the page naomi ross it didn't look like it was ready. I would appreciate your help in the draft. I have added new articles so her page is more worthy of publishing on wikipedia. I would appreciate if you could look over the page again and see if there are other improvements I can make. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Naomi_Ross Shawnyounai (talk) 16:01, 23 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello Shaunyounai, I did not "remove the page" or reject it, I declined the draft because it is not ready for article space, as the quality of references do not meet encyclopedic standards. The sources consist of churnalism, native advertising, press releases, tabloid-type material, and what looks looks like the kind of content that shows up via search engine optimation or COI/undisclosed paid editing. Adding additional low quality sources does not help the matter. That includes US magazine & weekly, which are considered lower quality than People magazine, and that is the "best source" present which just reiterates the same content from press releases, or point to the same on The US Sun, which is a fully deprecated source as of 2019.   is a very experienced editor and new page patroller, and they left you a helpful comment on the draft. I left you a note on the draft talk page. What is required to meet notability criteria is significant coverage in reliable sources that are fully independent of the person. I'm sorry if this reply is not the answer you seek; you may want to think about getting rid of all the "junk" sources, and keeping what you consider to be the three best ones. I did a BEFORE search, and all I could find is her own social media, YouTube, TikTok, IMDb, Instagram, and other user-submitted content and the same low-quality advertorialzed sources present in the draft. Unfortunately, I did not find anything useful, sorry I could not be more help to you. Netherzone (talk) 16:56, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Politeness.
Hello! I would like you to assume good faith, and be polite. I understand that you are ignorant of contemporary art, but I do not understand why you think tags without a talk page discussion deserve to exist for years, nor do I understand you adding new unexplained tags, without starting a talk page discussion to explain your actions. Please can you try to edit constructively in a way that helps other editors understand you, and also to carefully read edit summaries. I look forward to reading your explanations on the relevant talk pages.  ♥ L'Origine du monde ♥  ♥ Talk ♥ 00:16, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Specifically I find you reversal of this edit [] claiming it is "promotional" as irrational and unpleasant. We can all make mistakes while editing, but it is not hard to be polite. ♥ L'Origine du monde ♥  ♥ Talk ♥ 00:35, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, and welcome and thank you for reaching out. I find it puzzling that you would like me to AGF and be polite, and yet you follow that with an assumption that I am ignorant of contemporary art, impolite, irrational and unpleasant. Please come back later if you would like to have a conversation with a fellow editor after you look at the article history, and when you can assume good faith of me and be polite. BTW, the tags need to remain on the article until the issues are resolved, and the issues were not resolved by your edits. Netherzone (talk) 01:39, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I gave you clearly a diff to an edit you reverted  in a manner which I found irrational and unpleasant. If you check the article history you will see what you did, and that you described my editing as "promotional". Do you think that it is polite to revert my edits thus?  ♥ L'Origine du monde ♥  ♥ Talk ♥ 21:23, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes it was polite, and the edit was promotional. Please do not post here again, use the article talk page. It appears that you clearly do not understand why your assumptions that I am "ignorant of contemporary art, impolite, irrational and unpleasant" are inappropriate. This discussion will be closed and archived shortly. Netherzone (talk) 23:58, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Netherzone that edit is in no way promotional, and you have not explained why you believe it to be so here, on the article talk page, or on my talk page.  ♥ L'Origine du monde ♥  ♥ Talk ♥ 07:00, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Sonsbeek
Hi @Netherzone! Thanks for creating the article for Emilia Kabakov; it was long overdue. I made some minor lead edits, which I hope is okay. As promised, I also did some editing on Sonsbeek, including lead edits, section division, more details on 1971 as well as more recent updates. Let me know if this works for now.

I will, unfortunately, need to spend the entire weekend on a section of my dissertation that is due on Monday, so might not be able to add much more, but do keep me updated on things that you think need our attention. And I am excited to continue our work on Kabakov and Themerson. Honestly, at this point, I just wish I could submit all my en-wiki article edits as dissertation.. lol  Ppt91    talk   20:11, 24 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you for all of your wonderful contributions and for helping to improve the Kabakov and Sonsbeek articles. Good luck with the dissertation work, and see you around! Netherzone (talk) 20:23, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment
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Joseph (art model)
Hi @Netherzone! Hope you had a productive past few days. What's on your agenda in the coming weeks? I was wondering if you'd be interested in one specific project that we could both tackle in a relatively short span of time. I've recently posted about Joseph (art model) in peer review, but things tend to be quite slow out there. It's a fascinating yet under-researched topic in what has been a painfully Eurocentric historiography on the representation of the Black body in 19th-20th c. Western visual culture (his portrait had not even been included in the Raft of the Medusa page on en-wiki; I've added it myself a few weeks ago). I've done a good bit of work on the Joseph page--from a stub-level in early February--and I would love to bring it up to GA. I thought you would be the perfect person to ask. I don't believe it will take long, to be honest, as most of the sources are already there (scholarship is scant) and it seems more like a matter of organizing the content and adding whatever else is needed to satisfy GA criteria. Let me know your thoughts. Of course, I'd be happy to return to Sonsbeek and Emilia Kabakov in the near future (I haven't forgotten about those). :)  Ppt91    talk   18:30, 5 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @Ppt91, thank so much for your message. What a fascinating and important article. I would be definitely be interested in helping out with this. My time is a little restricted he next three or four days (but I will have internet access) then my schedule opens up. Thank you for reaching out! Netherzone (talk) 18:45, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Netherzone That's great news. Very happy to hear it and thank you for responding so quickly. There is no rush and, as I said, the work should hopefully not be too overwhelming. I'll start with a list of things and a rough outline on the talk page and will ping you when ready. And whenever you have a moment, feel free to peruse the article and point out anything that you think needs to be addressed/is missing/vague and so on. :)  Ppt91    talk   20:26, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I just started to read through the article, and this sentence jumped out at me as awkward: Both of them are said to have been were after Joseph. (last sentence of the first paragraph of the Raft of the Medusa section.) I haven't yet looked at the talk page (but will soon), and so am posting here as I don't want to disrupt your work flow as you are making a list of things on talk. Netherzone (talk) 03:23, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Netherzone Oh wow that's one sad sentence. Thank you for catching it! I *think* I meant to say Both of them are said to have been modeled after Joseph. but clearly my brain went in a different direction. Please feel free to make edits as you fit and also add to talk page as you move along; absolutely not disrupting my workflow :)
 * Ps. I was completely unaware of the Art&Language chaos you were pulled into. Honestly, your patience is impressive. I am sorry you had to deal with so much hostility. Thankfully, it looks like it's taken care of.  Ppt91    talk   03:38, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

March stories
On IWD, I remember a 2016 DYK: Hana Blažíková, a Czech who sang German music in Japan. Girls and women sang how Bach arranged Pergolesi's Stabat Mater to a new text paraphrasing Psalm 51, last Sunday. - I loved improving Mary Bauermeister - on the Main page until yesterday. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:20, 8 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi Gerda! I LOVE the Mary Bauermeister article, and the photos of her and her work are truly inspiring! Thank you for your wonderful contributions and Happy IWD, fellow traveller! Netherzone (talk) 21:34, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Credit for that article - photos and substance - goes to Jerome Kohl who started the article, as so many around Stockhausen, including In Freundschaft. He envied me for having seen Originale, in the Berlin production. What I did now was just bringing in a bit from obituaries, - without that there would have been no Main page appearance. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:54, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Jerome Kohl~! He did so much good in his lifetime. Netherzone (talk) 21:59, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Some purple crocus for you Gerda, from an urban garden! Spring is almost here! Netherzone (talk) 23:35, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! More pics from me as well --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:45, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * today we remember the 150th birthday of Max Reger, who saw the horrors of a world war right when it began in 1914, while others were still in high patriotic moods --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:00, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * BWV 1 today, and new pics, more of them tomorrow --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:16, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * sharing impressions from vacation on Madeira 20-30 March, pics now at 24 Mar from the peaks - that might be another option for your island experiences! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:34, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Wonderful! ~ I will have a look at your new pics, Gerda. I haven't had a lot of free time lately, and this will be just the pick-me-up I need to inspire me. Hope you had an excellent vacation, I"m sure it was superb! Netherzone (talk) 13:35, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I placed one of your images in the Madeira article, cuisine section. Netherzone (talk) 13:57, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 9 March 2023
 * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:42, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Mail re Joseph (art model)
Hi @Netherzone! Thanks for your message. Feel free to send the article whenever you have a moment. I will also update talk page to reflect some of my recent edits. Ppt91   talk   16:52, 9 March 2023 (UTC)


 * @Ppt91 I just replied to your email, and sent the attachment. Hope it is helpful. Netherzone (talk) 18:14, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Netherzone Just saw it. Thank you very much. If you have a moment, I'd certainly appreciate your taking a look at the structure and the lead in particular. I know you're preoccupied with other projects and there is no rush. And either way, I appreciate the article. :-)  Ppt91    talk   18:53, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Maria Scheepers
Netherzone, thanks for your comments on the Maria Scheepers article. She was a fascinating woman and I enjoyed learning about her!

T. E. Meeks (talk) 22:58, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Mary Miche
Hi! Sorry to bother you. I saw that my article on Mary Miche got deleted. Did you check out the resources that were cited in the article? "Books out loud: Bowker's Guide to Audiobooks" "Quaker Artists" "All Ears" and the Kirkus Reviews article are not Mary's blog. I scoured the internet archive for mentions of this person because my family listened to Earthy Tunes when I was a kid, and I know they were widely distributed. Five of her albums are on Spotify. Does this not fall under the Wikipedia catch-22 that sometimes Gender Bias on Wikipedia can occur due to women having worse archival coverage than men? It hardly seems her fault that nobody has scanned random Entertainment Weekly or Parents magazine articles from 1987 just to prove reviews of her work existed as she says they do on her Amazon page for Earthy Tunes. Computer-ergonomics (talk) 00:53, 12 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello, the article did not get deleted, the draft was declined, as you can see here: Draft:Mary Miche because the sources do not support notability for this person. As stated in my comment on the draft: What is needed is significant coverage about her in published reliable sources that are independent of the person. Biographies like this need to meet Wikipedia's notability criteria for WP:GNG or WP:NARTIST or WP:NAUTHOR. This is especially important in biographies of living persons, see: WP:BLP. If you can make improvements the draft to meet these criteria, then a reviewer may (or may not) approve the draft.
 * Also, just so you know I've been working on correcting systemic bias on Wikipedia for over 10 years, as you can see by my article creations; one of the main areas of focus is women in the arts and sciences. Netherzone (talk) 01:47, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I misspoke, I know it didn't get officially "deleted" because I am still editing it now for resubmission. I guess I question the standards of notability here - she's obviously been covered all over the place, just no formal long interviews, because she is a children's folk singer, not a huge celebrity. I have zero relation to this person or incentive to make a page about her that's personal, I just think that since her tapes were so widespread and are littered all over teacher's manuals and parenting almanacs of the 80s and 90s, I'm not certain why that isn't notable. It's a bit like saying "Mary Had a Little Lamb" wouldn't be notable if it didn't have an article about it in The Guardian.Computer-ergonomics (talk) 01:53, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello! Unfortunately interviews are not useful for establishing notability because they are not independent, they are what are called "primary" sources, WP needs secondary sources: what others have written about the person in published works. What is needed are references independent of the person. Things like in-depth newspaper articles about her, magazine or academic journal articles, book chapters, major notable awards. You can find out more about how the encyclopedia views notability here: WP:N. These guidelines have been determined by the community over a period of many years through the process of consensus. Wikipedia is a collaborative project, therefore no one person makes up these policies and guidelines, the community does. I'd suggest developing the draft before resubmitting it. If you have additional questions, please feel free to reach out to the Wikipedia Teahouse WP:TEAHOUSE or the Help Desk WP:HELPDESK where many experienced and friendly editors can help to provide assistance. Best regards and happy editing! Netherzone (talk) 02:24, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: February 2023
About This Month in GLAM · Subscribe/Unsubscribe · Global message delivery · Romaine 06:20, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Yogi Bhajan edits & "Neutral Point of View"

 * Dear Netherzone - Thank you for your concern. It is fine in principle to speak of "Neutral Point of View" but when that translates as indifference to or sheer ignorance of a subject, it becomes problematic.  I made the recent edits to the Yogi Bhajan article because there were numerous citations based on a flawed report, An Olive Branch Report (ref: https://fairinvestigation.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/The-Thompson-Report.pdf).
 * My impression is that these citations have endured for so long in the article because of a combinations of: 1) readers being indifferent to the facts of the matter, 2) readers being ignorant of the facts of the matter, or 3) readers - and contributors - being biased against the subject of the article.
 * I made the edits in good conscience because I like Wikipedia and wish it to be a truthful resource so far as possible. If you and horse eye prefer the article to persist in its perverted form, that will be your karma, though I hope you don't.  Either way, I wish you the very best! Guru Fatha Singh Khalsa (talk) 17:11, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello and thank you for your message, @Guru Fatha Singh Khalsa. I'll be moving this to the article talk page where it belongs. Please do take a moment to read WP:NPOV. No one is saying that the report you speak of cannot be included if it is published in a reliable source. All points of view that cover the matter should be represented as they are in the reliable sources to achieve balance in encyclopedia articles.
 * Just so you know, I did not touch any of your edits in the article, which you can see if you click on article history. I simply informed you on your talk page that you have a conflict of interest WP:COI and that may influence your ability to maintain a fully neutral perspective, and that you should not be editing the article directly as per our guidelines. I too wish you the very best! Netherzone (talk) 19:35, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of File:Nora Forster in 1984.jpg


A tag has been placed on File:Nora Forster in 1984.jpg requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section F7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a non-free file from a commercial source (e.g. Associated Press, Getty Images), where the file itself is not the subject of sourced commentary. If you can explain why the file can be used under the non-free content guidelines, please add the appropriate non-free use tag and rationale.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Whpq (talk) 01:10, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for letting me know, @Whpq. I'm sorry about my error with the upload. I'll continue to keep my eyes out for a fair use image - I've done several fairly exhaustive searches online.
 * The only image I can find that doesn't seem to be a press photo or have a Getty affiliation is a snapshot in John Lydon's book, Anger Is an Energy: My Life Uncensored. It's on the sixth page top left of the third folio of color plates with the caption: "Me and Nora on our boat." (Unfortunately, the color plate pages do not have page numbers (it's officially plate #60). The images themselves show up on a google book search, just the annotated caption here:. The image has a photo credit with copyright John Rambo Stevens, who became Lydon's full-time manager, per pages 433-34 of same book.
 * Question for you if you have a moment (no rush): If a head shot of Forster is extracted from the snapshot, and uploaded under fair use specifications as a historical portrait of a deceased person, and is within fair use specs for size, etc. do you think this could be used? It seems likely to me, however I don't want to make the same mistake, and because the source is an off-line source of which I would make a scan of, I'm not sure it will be acceptable. Any advise would be deeply appreciated! Thanks in advance. Netherzone (talk) 14:44, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The reason Getty images (and other commercial photo agencies) are speedily deleted is because of WP:NFCC. These agencies are in the commercial business of licensing images to to illustrate articles, and our use is exactly that, to illustrate an article.  A photo from Stevens, even used in a book, should be okay with the crop you have described. -- Whpq (talk) 14:52, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the quick reply! I don't think the use of the Steven's snapshot will harm any commercial opportunities of the creator, and it's very small and low resolution. I'll try uploading it later today. Netherzone (talk) 15:08, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

A barnstar for you

 * Oh gosh, thank you, CT. I'm so glad to have a colleague like you here! Netherzone (talk) 17:58, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

WP Visual Arts barnstar
ps. I meant to give you this last week! Ppt91   talk   17:00, 16 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello and thank you! That is so kind. Sorry I haven't given more attention to the article on Joseph the historical art model. I've become distracted by other wiki-tasks. I'm happy to have visual arts oriented fellow editors here! Netherzone (talk) 17:16, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Netherzone No worries at all! I'm always grateful for your feedback, though I certainly did not intend for this barnstar to come off as any kind of reminder re that article (I hope it didn't). Either way, excited for future projects, big and small. :-)  Ppt91    talk   17:29, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Not at all perceived as a reminder, it's that the Joseph article is at the "back of my mind" at the moment. Sending you good cheer... Netherzone (talk) 17:44, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

April songs
My story today is about the Alchymic Quartet, - I went away from DYK but it's the last one from last year. - The songs are about vacation, continued. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:05, 2 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Grape Hyacinth in an urban garden.jpg you! The title of the piece and description peaked my imagination, which led me to find a recording online - came across this concert that was in Munich (maybe you were there?). The Alchymic Quartet is the 8th piece played in the video and I just listened to it! Brilliant and dynamic. Thank you for sharing and for bringing new music into my life! Here are some grape hyacinths (muscari) for you from my garden, they are starting to bloom in the sunnier spots. Enjoy the spring! Netherzone (talk) 18:45, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, - yes I was there and took pictures, just not after that piece, sadly. Performers pictured in the long line afterwards, with the chemist standing right before me (see my talk or the composer's article) - he rose immediately after the last note, leading the standing ovations. Don't miss his pic in the program ;) - thanks for the hyacinths, saw some yesterday. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:15, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I absolutely love it that the chemist, Andrew Szydlo performed experiments during the performance! Such a fantastic blending of art and science. Netherzone (talk) 13:23, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * So do I. Only: while I was there 5 Nov, I couldn't make 4 Nov also - the one with the experiments - because our friends from OREYA came for a concert I wanted to support by presence. They didn't want money but warm clothes, and received more than their bus could carry, so it was sent with a truck together with other help. - If you have a minute: could you check if you can support our nomination for RD for the countertenor No. 2? Last day today, I was held up by vacation. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:37, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I made an exception from my DYK abstinence for Good Friday, - see my story today. Interesting to compare a hook 2023 style to one in 2012 (see my story today). - I sang, including chorales from Bach's greatest Passion. I recently listened to one by Homilius: a discovery! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:55, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Gerda! Thanks for your most recent work for the encyclopedia, it'a always great to learn about classical music and opera from you, I really appreciate your keeping in touch with others the way you do. I want to share with you that one of my article creations on a dynamic woman, Nora Forster, is on the main page today, ITN. She was a rock music promoter and all around muse for her husband, John Lydon who took care of her up until the end when she died from Alzheimers. He speaks so dearly of her in his autobiography. A sad loss of a dynamic woman. Here's to those who brought music to the world! Have a nice weekend. It's beautiful here today, off now to the farmers market. Netherzone (talk) 14:12, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Bless you! I saw "German" and felt I had to work, but saw it well referenced! - I added a day to the vacation pics, a hiking day, getting wet --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:10, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I loved to see Marian Anderson and her story of protest against discrimination by singing on Easter Sunday 9 April 1939 on the Main page yesterday. Impressions of Easter here and music here. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:32, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * My story today, Messiah (Handel), was my first dip into the FA ocean, thanks to great colleagues. - a few pics added, one day missing --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:19, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I added, finally ;) - today's stories are about Johanna Geisler and Huub Oosterhuis, a singer and a songwriter. More here if you have time. - If you have more: could you add refs to Karl Berger? I'm too tired. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:47, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for article improvements in April! - Today is the 80th birthday of John Eliot Gardiner. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:24, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Misatango coming up for me --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:07, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Gerda, Happy May Day! I've been traveling the past two weeks and haven't been very active here. Thanks for keeping me up to date on your encyclopedia work. Will Misatango be featured on the Main page or is it something you will be performing in or attending? Netherzone (talk) 10:25, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * performing - if also Main page we never know, - I missed a nomination, but mentioned it with the Te Deum and will with the bandoneon player Helena Rüegg (which will not appear 6 May or 7, too late). That whole page has nothing to do with Main page but has music that I sang (in church or concert) or listened to or plan to listen to. I planned to see a staged Handel oratorio on Wednesday but now we have a rehearsal I feel I don't want to miss. The pic is a placeholder - no harp. Just a former concert with the four choirs, - we did Haydn's Die Schöpfung and two Karl Jenkins pieces before with the Belgians. Our towns are "sisters", and it was planned for the 50th anniversary of the partnership, but that was 2020, and you can imagine ... --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:45, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

GAR of Louise Nevelson
Hi @Netherzone! I've just started a GA-reassessment of Louise Nevelson and, given your interest in female art subjects, thought you might want to take a look. I think it's a really important article and correcting male-centered bias in art history is obviously critical, though there are multiple major issues. I am not sure how much time I will have over the next week to fully commit, but I'll do my best if there is some response from the community. Curious to hear your thoughts and whether you think it'd just make more sense to delist as B-class. Ppt91   talk   19:12, 2 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi~@Ppt91! I'll have a look at it. I've never worked on bringing an article to GA (I don't have a lot of confidence in my writing) but if I can be of service I will do what I can. Better coverage of women, esp. women artists (and great ones like Nevelson) is always of interest. BTW, I just came across this WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by dictionary/Native American Women the other day, a ton o' redlinks for potential articles on Indigenous women, hopefully sources can be found. Happy spring to you. Netherzone (talk) 01:51, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Perry Picasshoe
Laughing so hard. When I saw this in the arts deletion sorting, my first thought was to ping you, @CT55555 since no one knows artists better... and then I saw the nom. At least I fully read it first. Hope you're well and enjoying spring. Star  Mississippi  20:34, 5 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi Star, good to hear from you, and happy spring to you as well! The past few days have certainly been gorgeous - it's energizing; today a little drizzly but the flowers like that. I saw the Picasshoe article a few days ago, did some searching online to see what I could find, and decided to wait until I could take the time to do a deeper search. This mornings search didn't reveal anything in depth. They certainly seem like a hardworking young artist, who knows, in a few more years maybe they will be ready for an article. But yes, their pseudonym cracked me up when I first read it which I think is their intention.  I wish them all the best in their future career. Hope all is going very well in your world! Netherzone (talk) 22:41, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * All is well here too, thank you. I am also appreciating the drizzle as my allergies do not love the blooms as much as my eyes do.
 * Creative marketing in naming, gold star and yes I hope too that the time comes when sufficient coverage exists to include their work. Star   Mississippi  23:00, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

May songs
Continued from April: I had a good story on coronation day: the Te Deum we sang that day (mentioned before). And the following day we sang it for the composer ;) - And today we remember a composer who created music especially for us! -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:21, 9 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello Gerda! Thank you as always for sharing your fine contributions with me, and so many other editors. I always appreciate hearing from you. I recently returned from a fabulous trip to the UK to visit numerous megalithic sites. I shot a lot of photos, but need to go thru them first to decide which to upload to Commons and which to keep copyrighted for other use purposes. I returned to a garden full of flowers...the peonies will start to open soon. Netherzone (talk) 23:30, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you - that sounds exciting! - More pleasant music (heard today!) if you click on songs - did you know a string quartet with two cellos (and no article yet in English? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:52, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Joe Coulombe in 1986.png
Thanks for uploading File:Joe Coulombe in 1986.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. — holly  {chat} 21:42, 11 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @Holly it's ok to delete this file, it seems that there is now a copyright free image available. Thank you for attending to this. Netherzone (talk) 02:16, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

May thanks
Thank you for improving articles in May. - I had a good story on coronation day: the Te Deum we sang that day. And the following day we sang it for the composer ;)

I nominated Soňa Červená for GA just to give her a bit more exposure, and I took some pics of bright scenery - click on songs. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:30, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Congratulations to Editor of the Week! - more pics, also new memory and music, and ten years ago I had a DYK for my most serious article --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:10, 23 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you Gerda! I will have a look at your photos, I aways enjoy viewing them especially the ones you take on your hikes and bike rides, and of course the food pix always make me hungry. Re: the award, I feel very honored! It came at a good time as I was feeling down the past few weeks due to a death in the family. Hope all is very well with you, and thank you for sharing music and beauty with the world! And thanks for this: Maria Mies, I just started reading the article. What an amazing woman, and such important work. Netherzone (talk) 21:27, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I am sad to hear about death in the family, and send best wishes to you and your family for coping with the situation. Food this time: a peace cone, the right sweet treat I hope. - After edit conflict: I found Maria Mies among those who died, and SusunW turned a mess of an article into something decent. I wouldn't be surprised if it received more views yesterday than ever before, and she deserved it! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:38, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I am sorry to read of your loss as well. I hope that your sorrow passes and allows you to remember the joy you shared with your family member. Mies was a joy, though difficult because of all the various reviews of her work in multiple languages. I was so happy Gerda found her. SusunW (talk) 21:59, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Many thanks to both of you, for the kind condolences, and your wonderful work on WP. What a transformation,, from a "messy"article into a superb one on an important woman who devoted her life to activism for women's rights! One of the things I love about WP is the ever-ongoing learning process. Enjoy the rest of the Spring, as Summer is just around the corner. Netherzone (talk) 22:21, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Here in southern Mexico "summer" hits in April or May. Temperatures have been between 35°C/95°F and 45°C/113°F since about the first week in April. Weirdly, the rainy season began last week; typically in June, so we have had a few days with cooler temps. Just waiting for the official season when it becomes lovely (except for the threat of hurricanes) and remains about 28°C/82°F until December. And yes, that learning thing. I write to learn more about the people I write about. I love when Gerda finds articles she needs help with. SusunW (talk) 22:36, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I found two who died (see my user page) but both men, and one needs Hebrew rather Spanish. - Pentecost was full of music, and my story today is that 300 years ago today, Bach became Thomaskantor, with BWV 75, writing music history. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:18, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Editor of the Week
User:CT55555 submitted the following nomination for Editor of the Week:
 * I nominate Netherzone to be Editor of the Week for diligently working to create and improve biographical articles about women artists. Here is a list of articles: diff. They are helpful and informative to so many editors in so many ways. Also for going above and beyond to finish and develope articles that were in draft status for deceased editor User:Possibly. See chat here. On a regular basis Editor Star_Mississippi flags Netherzone when articles that are in need improvement are identified and Netherzone seems to, without fail, put the time in to improve them. Firelei Báez is just the most recent example.

You can copy the following text to your user page to display a user box proclaiming your selection as Editor of the Week:

Thanks again for your efforts! &#8213; Buster7  &#9742;   14:07, 21 May 2023 (UTC)


 * @CT55555 and @Buster7, OMG thank you so much for this kindness, it really made my day! Thanks also go out to @Star Mississippi for her support and wisdom. I am so very fortunate to have such amazing colleagues here. Netherzone (talk) 19:12, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
 * so so well deserved. I didn't know this was a thing, so thanks for putting it on my radar @CT55555. You also deserve the recognition. Always a pleasure to work with both of you to improve our articles. Star   Mississippi  20:02, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Deletes
I only just now noticed that you had put the Cache article for deletion. I would have supported that earlier if I saw it. I tried to speedy delete it (because I was an idiot and didn't know the bar was so low). User:Larry Hachucka is the article's creator. He seems to have created a few of these, and I have nominated them for deletion, too. The PROD that you supported of mine (Body Central) was contested for some reason. Glad to see you agree. User:Larry Hachucka also just created another article—Boardman Plaza. I haven't gone through that yet. Maxx-♥ talk and coffee ☕ 14:46, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the "thanks"
Hi there, Netherzone! Thanks for the "thanks" for my edit on Nuclear labor issues. Appreciate very much the support. Crisantom (talk) 07:21, 27 May 2023 (UTC)


 * You are very welcome! I just looked thru your article creations, and you work on very interesting topics related to environmental and Indigenous issues. It is great to meet you here. See you around and happy editing! Netherzone (talk) 15:15, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Great to meet you, too. Again, thanks. Crisantom (talk) 03:44, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Return of the COI poster
Thanks for catching and reverting those. I can't figure out whether we're dealing with >1 editor or sockpuppetry. I originally thought the former, but now not so sure. Barte (talk) 22:00, 1 June 2023 (UTC)


 * @Barte I'm trying to figure that out as well. The new IPs all geolocate to the locale the original 2 editors IP socks were from (Pomona/Claremont, California) - where the organization is based. So it may be the director and their employees or interns. I did a search on WP for the org name, and there are a lot more articles to clean up (again). Netherzone (talk) 22:26, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 * See: Netherzone (talk) 22:28, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Is there any way to break the cycle? I'm happy to collaborate on reverting some of these, but wonder if some administration intervention would help. Nine years in, we're still playing Whac-A-Mole, Barte (talk) 23:52, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Barte, I was just having the same thought. Especially since the more recent IP-hopping additions after User:M Na zdravi and User:Shabehr stopped editing while logged in. Two venues that come to mind are the Conflict of Interest Noticeboard WP:COIN or asking an admin to add the PPIP url to the Spam Blacklist MediaWiki:Spam-blacklist and/or posting something on the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam. Netherzone (talk) 00:08, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
 * If the IP accounts are connected, as they appear to be, to PAPP, this is a clear, long-term case of COI. But if we need to prove it, perhaps WP:SI would be the place to start.  (I've never been involved with requesting an investingation, so I'm just surmising.) Re: the spam question: The PAPP article was deleted because the organization had no coverage. And its website is opaque as to where the info in its database comes from. On the other hand, it does seem to have |an association with Google. Given all that, is any PAPP citation spam? Or is the site perhaps just an unreliable source? Or legitimate, as long as COI is dealt with? Barte (talk) 02:56, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Barte, two issues here to be sure. The best case scenario, at least to my way of thinking, would be for the PAIPP editor or editors to agree to abide by our guidelines for COI editors, and actually try to work with us truthfully rather than to continue the trend we've observed over the years. Netherzone (talk) 03:56, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
 * That would be ideal. So far though, we're getting denial and personal attacks followed by silence. What do you think about submitting the site to WP:RSP? If it's deemed reliable, the COI would be less egregious--at least they're citing a reliable source. If not, and the spamming persisted, it would be a candidate for blacklisting. Barte (talk) 03:35, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * And it's been going on for many years.
 * Re: use as a source, I feel pretty strongly it should not be used as a source. There have been many warning by editors about the reliability of the source, I remember talk page discussions with User:ThatMontrealIP, User:JoooJay and admin User:Seraphimblade. See: Talk:Millard Sheets, Talk:Palisades Park (Santa Monica),  User talk:Joojay/Archives/2020/September,  Talk:Dividing the Light,  User talk:Seraphimblade/archive 18,  User_talk:Seraphimblade/archive_18
 * PAIPP is a database, possibly user-submitted content, and copying content from other sources (like the LA Times). They have at times removed other sources to replace it with their own PAIPP source. To my mind it's solidly link spam / citation spam.
 * Regarding the long-term failure to abide by COI guidelines, quacking WP:DUCK or coordinated editing, logged-out editing (including recently), I really think the situation needs administrator to look things over. I try to avoid the drama boards, perhaps we could reach out to an admin directly? Netherzone (talk) 04:12, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Here? WP:AIV. That works for me. Each report looks as if it references one specific Wikipedia account. Where to start? Judging from this discussion and elsewhere, your knowledge of this depressing saga exceeds mine. But I'm on board. Barte (talk) 04:42, 6 June 2023 (UTC)


 * I was thinking we could contact Seraphimblade directly, and get his advice on how and where to report. What do you think about that approach? Netherzone (talk) 04:46, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * We can try, but it has been a while. Seraphimblade blocked and later unblocked Shabehr's account in September 2020 and that account has only posted once since, unrelated to PAIPP and thus in compliance with the unblock. Aside from the COI issue, I'm still interested in whether there's a consensus that PAIPP is a reliable source. Would it muddy the situation if I submitted the question to WP:RSN? If so, there's no urgency. Barte (talk) 21:39, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I think it's important to clear up the behavioral problem first, esp. given the untruthfulness of the post below by M Na zdravi/KM Williamson, and the multiple IP hopping that started after the Shabehr account was blocked/unblocked. BTW, numerous other editors felt that PAIPP is link spam and not reliable; and they (PAIPP IPs & editors) are and have been engaging in promotional editing which is not the purpose of the encyclopedia. Much better sources exist such as newspapers, magazines, art history books, arts councils, commissioning organizations, etc. Netherzone (talk) 00:04, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * So contact Seraphimblade directly? You have a far better sense of the history, but I'm happy to assist where I can. (I'm traveling sans laptop Thur-Monday, but after that.) Nine years of this nonsense is long enough. Barte (talk) 04:37, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Safe travels, Barte! Yes, I think he may be able to give us some guidance on how and where to discuss a resolution to this long term matter. Netherzone (talk) 04:44, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks and I'm back. After you contact Seraphimblade, I'll chime in where appropriate. Barte (talk) 00:02, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Barte, hope your trip went well. I'll write something up in the next day or two with a few diffs and run it by you before sending it off. Netherzone (talk) 02:34, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Perfect. Barte (talk) 14:47, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Actually, no need to run it by me. Just call it as you see it: I'm pretty sure we're seeing the same things. Barte (talk) 20:11, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Done. Netherzone (talk) 19:47, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Barte, I noticed that the IP the COI editor was last using was blocked. I think that the issue is too stale at this time to open a COIN noticeboard incident report. I'm hoping that they will not be back, and am glad that we reached out to an admin familiar with the matter, so that it's on their radar screen if the problem resurfaces. I'm going to start cleaning up some of the spam refs, replacing them with reliable sources. Hope all is well with you and that you are keeping cool wherever you are. All the best, Netherzone (talk) 22:01, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * That's interesting about the IP. It looks like the reason is: Template:Blocked p2p proxy. I'm still interested in submitting the site to WP:RSP. That was the advice of the closing admin at Articles for deletion/Public Art in Public Places back in 2020--perhaps it's still worth doing apart from COI concerns. Thoughts? Barte (talk) 04:54, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Barte, I'm not sure why would you want to de-couple the COI issue from the use of PAiPP as a source given the fact that it has been link-spammed and ref-spammed by connected editors since 2014. Much better sources that are not user-submitted content or content/data scraped from other, more reliable sources. To my way of thinking that context and history is essential to this issue. Am I misundertanding you? Netherzone (talk) 21:49, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I was planning to mention it, and you could add much more detail. But I'm just not sure if COI is a consideration at WP:RSP. Either way, I'd like them to judge the site as reliable or not. Barte (talk) 04:43, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Biased editing: Public Art in Public Places
re: “You still have not adequately responded or taken action to the inquiry regarding your appearance as an undisclosed paid editor. If you make any additional edits without complying, you may be blocked from editing. ''Editing while logged out to add spam links to your organization, Public Art in Public Places, or to your own self-cites is not permitted. See WP:LOUTSOCK'' Netherzone (talk) 03:58, 1 June 2023 (U Allow me to introduce myself. I am K. M. Williamson, Ph.D., Director of Public Art in Public Places.  My staff directed me to your recent email, which prompted our review of the various errors and misleading comments your “Netherzone” persona has posted about Public Art in Public Places on Wikipedia.

I respectfully object to your claim that “the director”, myself, has made any contributions to Wikipedia. Neither I nor my staff have ever made any such contributions to Wikipedia regarding Public Art in Public Places or its data archive:  it is against our policy. A number of years ago we objected to erroneous claims and uninformed assumptions being made by some Wikipedia editors in response to a Wikipedia listing on our organization proposed by another Wikipedia editor, and we therefore made a formal request to have the Wikipedia listing on Public Art in Public Places removed, to safeguard our organization’s reputation. We noted at that time that “Netherzone” was an active promoter of much of this misinformation.

After reviewing “Netherzone’s” subsequent Wikipedia comments, we take issue with “Netherzone’s” ongoing bias, lately the pejorative claim that Public Art in Public Places is “only a blog”, and the oddly biased claim that the Google Arts & Culture online platform is “dubious.”

Since “Netherzone” persists in remaining unfamiliar with our organization and the Google Cultural Institute, I direct “Netherzone” and other Wikipedia editors exposed to such comments to the following:

Public Art in Public Places is a not-for-profit, non-commercial, arts data organization establishing and managing an extensive open and public online public art data archive for the Sothern California and Hawai’i regions, in partnership with the Google Cultural Institute, its Google Arts & Culture program, and Google Maps. As of 2023, the Public Art in Public Places archive contains data on more than 5,000 public artworks in more than 250 cities.

We hope and expect that “Netherzone” will correct the errors it has posted on Wikipedia regarding myself as Director and regarding the Public Art in Public Places organization, and that “Netherzone” will also assist in notifying other Wikipedia editors who have been misled by what we view as misinformation that is damaging to our ethical and public-spirited mission and reputation.

K. M. Williamson, Ph.D.   Director, Public Art in Public Places 40.137.251.37 (talk) 22:52, 1 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello, Mx. Williamson, I'm not sure what email you are referring to, as no email was sent by me.
 * Could you please explain this:, this:, and these contributions:Special:Contributions/M Na zdravi where you repeatedly self-cited your organization?
 * For additional history on the matter there is this: Articles for deletion/Public Art in Public Places. Netherzone (talk) 23:07, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Also see this, as it seems the conflict of interest editing goes back to 2014. Netherzone (talk) 23:23, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

June songs
I like today's Main page, and here's why ;) - (DYK that we got filmed when performing the piece mentioned?) -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:10, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Fantastic! I'll view the video later today. Congratulations on the Kölner Domchor DYK, and thank you for the cheery photo. Netherzone (talk) 15:12, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Last weekend was nice, class reunion a funny number of years after completing school, and the lovely park where I spent many Sundays as a child. Today's story is quite dramatic, there's a yt trailer to the hook. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:07, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Gerda, thank you for your work on this: Françoise Gilot. A strong woman artist who faced a boatload of adversity, thrives and lives to be 101. Françoise Gilot rocks! Netherzone (talk) 02:29, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Agree, but I did little, more or less just nominated, and no time for more - guests for Bach concert today, see story with defiance pictured --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:49, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
 * That concert was great! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:21, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Jörg Widmann is 50, and I began Stockholm pics. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:26, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Today's story is about a singer whom I saw twice, not Wagner and Strauss, but Bach and Weill - more vacation pics! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:17, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Gerda, I will check out the story, and just took a peek at your new photos, I saw this one of Sigrid Lindberg (1871-1942), Violinist, painting by Hildegard Thorell at the Nationalmuseum Stockhlm. I looked up the painter, and saw that her article can be improved by adding a gallery. I'd like to work on that. Would it be OK with you if I cropped out the blue wall and frame, and just used the painting itself. It would require modifying your upload. Or if you prefer, I could download it to my desktop, crop it and upload as a new file - what ever you prefer is fine with me. I'm off now for a hike, recently found a new spot that a friend of mine took me to last weekend. Netherzone (talk) 21:42, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Great idea! I'd prefer to copy to a new additional name, because I like the same format for my "gallery". - Today, the story is ten years old, the Main page had three great people who recently died, and I invite you to look at two videos around concerts I heard, in the short one actually seen in the background. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:44, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Today: a woman caught by the iron curtain (improved with SusunW and GRuban), yesterday: the Mass in B minor, heard in concert then, three musical videos are out, and vacation pics. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:06, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Gerda, I started to create a cropped image of the painting, but noticed there already was one on Commons. When I get around to adding a gallery to the Hildegard Thorell article (hopefully later today) I will add that one. I'm so glad that you brought her work to my attention. Netherzone (talk) 14:10, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

John Panting
Hi there,

You helped with a page I did sometime ago on the artist gallery Teststrip and I wonder if I could get your help on a new page I have just put up. I think I have accidentally published it under the title John panting (small p) rather than John Panting (caps). Can you fix this or give me some thoughts on what to do? Not sure of the protocol with this so hope you don't mind such a direct request from a newbie. Cheers, Manymanydogs (talk) 03:52, 6 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi and nice to hear from you. It seems another editor took care of it. Cheers, Netherzone (talk) 04:24, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

DYK for Elfie Caroline Huntington
BorgQueen (talk) 00:02, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Mold painting
Can I just say ewww? Here as so not to derail an AfD. Hope you're doing well & staying safe if you're affected by the smokey skies Star   Mississippi  21:26, 1 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Ha ha ha, you had me laughing out loud at ewwww. A photo from yesterday shot from the East River ferry looking south from towards the Williamsburg Bridge. Not as bad as it was, glad that I missed the worst of it a few weeks back. How are you doing? NYC smoky sky.jpg Netherzone (talk) 21:35, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Gray > orange any day.
 * The last round of this nonsense had me eating indoors and masking out, which was very weird. Glad you missed the worst of it. All is well here.  Summer is my reading time and aiming for a good balance of fiction and non. How about yourself?  Star   Mississippi  22:21, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm doing well, here for a few more weeks then off on another adventure! My recent days have been filled with minor home repair tasks and garden maintenance - much weeding to do and trying to keep the spotted lantern fly nymphs under control by spraying white vinegar. They seem to really like the orange trumpet vine and grape vines. There are so many this year it's kind of scary. Netherzone (talk) 22:33, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Whoops, I missed this response. I'm smiling at the thread below, I wasn't aware of it when I pinged you to his Talk. Such a loss.
 * Yay for adventures. Mine are in August and I can't wait, two bookends to summer.
 * I was upstate and saw the first of the lanternpaloozas. Good luck with the weeding and stay away from poison ivy et al. Star   Mississippi  13:37, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Akane Yamaguchi
Hello. Help improvements. Thanks you. 115.76.249.90 (talk) 12:30, 6 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello, What kind of improvements do you think are needed?
 * The article looks OK to me, but I may be missing something. Netherzone (talk) 16:13, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Post Alley Pizza
Thanks for your feedback Post Alley Pizza. I am interested in addressing your concerns, if the entry survives AfD. I appreciate the points you've made but unless you and others vote to keep the entry based on sufficient coverage, your critiques are moot. Thanks again! --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 12:53, 11 July 2023 (UTC)


 * And thanks for your note here, @Another Believer. I hope my comment on the talk page wasn't too blunt, I know that sometimes I make that mistake. I meant what was said about admiring your work; I've been seeing you around for a long time, but I don't think we've spoken directly before. Good to "meet" you! Netherzone (talk) 13:04, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * No problem at all! I always appreciate when editors take time to offer constructive feedback and help improve Wikipedia. I wish more editors were like you, working to build instead of trying to tear down. Ristorante Machiavelli and Alexis Restaurant have also been tagged (unnecessarily, in my opinion), but hopefully I can address your concerns once the dust has settled. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 13:09, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Summer nights
DId you know raccoons like Hamlet? Or at least most of them do, one was more enthralled by a reed. Glad to be able to enjoy an evening-finally. Hope you are too. Star  Mississippi  01:57, 22 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Isn't it about that time of year for the great Central Park Raccoon Convention and food-washing-a-thon? I've had them in my garden. Last year the possums had a party. Critters taking back their rightful habitat. I'm vacationing out West, it's been hot but dry and beautiful. Not missing the humidity at all. ;-) Netherzone (talk) 02:11, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Indeed. This lot were also eager to tangle with a snapper, which I don't think would end well. Did I tell you the story of the suburban possums? We could not figure out what the racket was and finally looked in a plastic residential trash can. Babies had fallen in somehow. That was entertaining to safely lower it to get them out but also not to encourage them to return. Enjoy the break, and hope the heat isn't too much. Star   Mississippi  02:16, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

my wikipedia page (Karla Knight)
Hello Netherzone! I believe it was you who created my wikipedia page - if so - thank you. You did a lovely job. I'm wondering if you can add a couple of things to it. I am represented by Andrew Edlin Gallery in New York City - would love that to be included. And a link to my website, if possible. The address is: https://www.karlaknight.org  If there is a way to add a head shot of me with my work let me know how to get you one to add. Many thanks, and keep up the great work. KK Carpenter6 (talk) 17:07, 27 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello Karla, @Carpenter6. thank you for reaching out on my talk page. I think your work is awesome - smart, interesting and visually compelling, and I hope to see it in person some day. I'll keep an eye out for your shows.
 * A couple things that you need to know about Wikipedia, we are an encyclopedia, not a personal web host and the encyclopedia is never to be used as vehicle for promotion. It goes against one of our core policies, most specifically this one: WP:PROMO. Because of the financial connections between you and AE Gallery, it also goes against my editor ethics to include this content (the gallery rep) - they should be promoting you on their own website not on the encyclopedia. However I am happy to add a link to your website, as that is standard in many contemporary artist's encyclopedia articles. I'm also happy to include an image of you with your work.
 * You will need to upload the image to Wikimedia Commons - here is a link to the Upload Wizard (upload a jpeg or png file). LINK. You will also have to release the rights to the photograph, which means anyone will be free to use, modify, edit or mix the image. If you are not the person who shot the photograph, then you will also need to get permission from the photographer so they can release the rights and publish the image on Commons under a free license. They will need to send an email to our Volunteer Response Team at: permissions-commonswikimedia.org -- Let me know when it is uploaded and I will add it to the article. If you are willing to release the rights to an image or two of your work, I can add that as well.
 * Here is more information: Commons:Contributing your own work. Also please read and abide by the policies and guidelines at WP:COI for editors with a conflict of interest. You should not continue to edit your own article nor should your gallery or any other connected editor. However I am happy to help out as an unconnected editor (we are all volunteers here, and sometimes things take a while). You can also make suggestions on the Karla Knight talk page.
 * This talk page is the best place to communicate with me. I know this is a lot of information to take in, and there are many rules and guidelines here, but that is how we maintain the integrity of the encyclopedia - and especially in articles about living persons. The very best regards to you, Netherzone (talk) 03:03, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Netherzone,
 * Thanks for explaining Wikipedia rules to me - I appreciate it. I uploaded a photo of one of my pieces, please add to my page if you can. The title is Red Road Trip 2 and the date is 2021-22.
 * Many thanks for your time and assistance!
 * KK 69.126.188.60 (talk) 10:46, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

July music
My story today pictures a friend whose birthday is today ;) - we listened to music she helped publishing - at a fancy place (which looked different when Bach played there). -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:03, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Congrats to you and your friend, Gerda. BTW, I replied to your June greeting re: the painting of Sigrid Lindberg. Cheers! Netherzone (talk) 14:12, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, and I'll pass the congrats tomorrow, at the party - with concert. I replied under July, no? very busy, in a pleasant way. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:04, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Have fun at the party, then get some rest! Netherzone (talk) 22:05, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I'll get rest before ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:25, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * (Finally: June pictures updated, with three great RMF concerts!) - She played for us at her party, on four instruments including baryton, with family members (granddaughters!) and colleagues, from Renaissance to Haydn. - My story today is very personal: the DYK appeared on Wikipedia's 15th birthday, and describes a concert I sang. I was requested to translate the bio into German for a memorial concert ... - see background, and we talked about life and death. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:48, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
 * more? fireworks on the Rhine pictured on 1 July, but the real stars were sun and moon. I love today's story. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:17, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello! Thanks for the fireworks and for your improvements to Violeta - another brilliant woman in music. Netherzone (talk) 14:36, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! - On today's Main page, you can find a cantata that Bach first performed 300 years ago, and an iconic saxophonist from East Germany. Also: a bit about the history of QAI on my talk. Thank you for being part of it! A new member designed a user box that I adopted. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:43, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I look forward to reading the articles. I've added the new QAI userbox to my user page. :-) Netherzone (talk) 23:33, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! - While today's DYK highlights Santiago on his day, I did my modest share with my story today, describing what I just experienced, pictured. I began the article of the woman in green. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:08, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Today Jahrhundertring, and I'm listening to Götterdämmerung from the Bayreuth Festival (pictured), - the image (of a woman who can't believe what she has to see) features also on the article talk. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:45, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks Gerda, I will check out both of these articles. Netherzone (talk) 21:20, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
 * My story today - a first - isn't about an article by me, but one I reviewed for DYK, see here. I like all: topic, "hook", connected article (a GA on its way towards FA), image and the music "in the background". I just returned from a weekend of weddings, so also like the spirit ;) - Pics to come, I promise one cake, the other was too large! Good music, and better even in the concert ending the second day, - Goldberg Variations theme for an encore, after Dohnányi Serenade. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:33, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I just read the article on Yekaterina Nosenko, what a fascinating yet tragic story of her relationship with Stravinski. Will look for your new photos, hope you enjoyed the cake! Netherzone (talk) 23:01, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Notice of Dispute resolution noticeboard discussion
This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution.

Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you!  Esowteric +  Talk  +  Breadcrumbs   21:17, 26 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for adding me, @Esowteric, but whoever opened the DRN should add ALL the editors who commented on the various threads on the talk page, not a selection of editors. Some were overlooked, perhaps because they only left one or two comments. I'm not saying that this oversight was at all deliberate, but it could be perceived as gaming the system or a variation on forum shopping. There is already enough high drama surrounding this article, and the omission of certain editors could cause additional drama and not give all editors the opportunity to contribute. Some may have dropped out of the discussion out of frustration, but they still should be made aware of the DRN and have a chance to participate if they so wish. ~ Peace to you, Netherzone (talk) 21:49, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

August music
Congratulations! Today's music is played by my brother's orchestra, conducted by two very young men on their way up, - the picture was taken shortly after the invasion of Ukraine began, - more detail on my talk. Images reached the day of the Tenebrae concert mentioned in July. -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gerda Arendt (talk • contribs)
 * Thanks, Gerda, for the heads up, I'll check it out. Hope all is well with you and are enjoying life, music, food and nature this summer! Netherzone (talk) 22:45, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Again not by me: today's story - with the triumph of music over military - is uplifting! - No cake yet, but a butterfly and open-air opera. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:09, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * More pics uploaded, with wedding cakes - I couldn't resist. Today's story is about the Inkpot Madonna who returned to "her place" 9 years ago, and also has aspects of early learning, remember? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:51, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Today is the anniversary of the premiere of Götterdämmerung. Berit Lindholm sang its final scene in concert at the Royal Festival Hall in London, only four years after her stage debut in a Mozart opera in Stockholm. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:36, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Today is Debussy's birthday. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:19, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Gerda, saw Orpheo this evening at the Santa Fe Opera. The open air "backdrop" of the western sunset as framed by the architecture is breathtaking. The performance and minimal but quirky sets were wonderful. Hope all is very well in your world. Netherzone (talk) 05:55, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Private life and concerts great, - here I have the two topics for which I called it a year of resilience, - see Cosima Wagner and Berit Lindholm. The conductor in today's story was church musician in "my church" but before me. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:29, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Today is Gwendolyn Killebrew's birthday, - pictured: a spider and sweet food - with the next update, there will be sunset (seen after Mahler IV) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:47, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
 * This too shall pass. - Ten years ago on 28 August, I heard a symphony, with a heavy heart because of the pending decision in WP:ARBINFOBOX, and not worried about my future here but Andy's. - It passed, and I could write the DYK about calling to dance, not battle, and Andy could write the DYK mentioning about peace and reconciliation, - look. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:30, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

PAIPP RS discussion
I did it: Reliable sources/Noticeboard (at the bottom). This is my first attempt at this over there, so am not claiming perfection, but I tried to follow the guidelines. I hope you'll add a comment. Thanks! Barte (talk) 18:49, 4 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the heads-up, @Barte. I added a comment to the discussion. Netherzone (talk) 21:20, 4 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Looks good, thank you. I realized that there's a formal way to structure a request for comment, and I hadn't done it (having never done one). So I removed "RfC" from the header, at least of now. Will try to figure out more if the section doesn't get any attention. Barte (talk) 05:19, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, I've never posted on RSN before either so I will follow your lead, Barte. Please ping me when it may require my attention. Netherzone (talk) 15:14, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Will do. 18 years on Wikipedia and there's still a learning curve. Barte (talk) 16:39, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, I restarted the discussion, or at least have attempted to, as a formal RfC--just below. Sorry for the confusion: I think this deserves a wider audience.  Barte (talk) 18:22, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I consolidated the two sections under the RfC and consolidated your statement there as well. Again I apologize if I've broken anything: it's learning experience. Barte (talk) 19:32, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Barte, I think the behavioral issues should have been addressed first. Netherzone (talk) 01:13, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I think it's clear that this is was not the place to bring up behavior. It's even in the guidelines on the page: "Please focus your attention on the reliability of a source. This is not the place to discuss other issues, such as editor conduct. Please see dispute resolution for issues other than reliability."
 * At this point, I would be grateful to see Option 3, though I think a closing administrator is more likely to go with 2. What is clear is that no one thinks PAIPP falls under Option 1, reliable source. Barte (talk) 01:56, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree it's the wrong venue, but I'm wondering if we should have gone to the spam noticeboard first to address the behavioral issues. I hope the closing admin looks at the deeper history of the situation (which goes back, as you know, 9 years) to have a deeper understanding of the problematics. Option 3, I'd be "happy" with. It's nebulous what Option 2 actually is. What is actually meant by "Additional considerations"? Obviously (at least to my mind) the L.A. Times (and the other sources I noted) are so much better. If Option 2 means "maybe-maybe not" in certain circumstances....What are those circumstances....instances where no better source is available?
 * Well, I guess this is an example why I avoid noticeboards. Netherzone (talk) 03:43, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

That could be. And I take your point that "additional considerations" is potentially blurry. Perhaps as the discussion winds down, I can ask if, given Option 2, there's any consensus that while PAIPP can be used, there are better sources out there. Do you have any sense of whether the reference spamming is ongoing? Barte (talk) 04:33, 11 August 2023 (UTC)


 * I don't know if the spamming is continuing. I'm still hopeful that the outcome is Option 3, because Option 2 seems to be somewhat meaningless. Netherzone (talk) 04:49, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

H-index
I noticed you mention H-index in an AfD. Not related to it, but I was wondering if you could help me get the h-index for a psychology scholar Paul Spector? Graywalls (talk) 00:24, 19 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @Graywalls, it is a common name but if they are Paul E. Spector, they have a very high h-index of 128 but I see they are in IS & Management, University of South Florida, so that seems to be a different Paul Spector. The Scopus website is down right now. If I find more info later I'll ping you. Netherzone (talk) 03:56, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Yuki Iiyama
Hi Netherzone, thank you for reviewing the new article. On some points you raised: 1) the video screenings are all listed on the reference that was retained (now number 12). It seems like overkill to reference the same source for all of the screenings but I can if you think that is preferable or I can search for more sources... The new text introduces a grammar error which I plan to correct to say "was screened".

I'm also planning to update the early life section because as I think you noted it maybe doesn't read in a style appropriate for an encylopedia. Do you have any advice?

It's not original research, by the way. If you can read the Japanese interview referenced, everything there is paraphrased from her account of her early life... still, I'm debating how to reword it for encyclopedia style. Louise000 (talk) 15:05, 15 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello and thank you for reaching out, all information in BLPs must be sourced. This is what I removed, At this time, Iiyama thought there was a conflict between the entrance-exam style of artwork and self-expression. was unsourced and therefore "possible original research". You are free to add it back, but it must be sourced. However, it seems like trivia and not really essential to an encyclopedia article. What young artist doesn't feel misunderstood at some point in relation to their schooling?
 * The tone of the Education and early life section does need work, as the tone is a bit casual, rather than encyclopedic.
 * Also the bit about her younger sister being diagnosed with schizophrenia seems a little invasive - why not just say that "That her work is influenced by mental health matters that have impacted her family." or something similar.
 * Hope that helps. If I had more time I'd help clean up the wording, but I'm currently on vacation. Netherzone (talk) 19:09, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, this helps a lot. I agree it sounds invasive out of context of the artist saying it themselves which is what is said in the original interview. She talks about it a lot in interviews but I prefer your style. Louise000 (talk) 02:04, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, the part about the entrance-exam is a bit culturally specific. Entrance exams for Japanese art schools require a specific type of drilled drawing where you typically have to 1) draw in the style of academic french drawing from the 1900s, and 2) obtain semi-secret information about the exams from yobiko that have good relationships with the art university so that you are drilled throughout yobiko to execute artworks according to a particular style. Her statement that contemporary art self expression is at odds with the exam style is more like a critique of art education in Japan but since the original source is within the context of Japanese it is never explained in this detail so to bring it over into English and add the context that is assumed in the source language is challenging. Minor stuff! I will leave it out because I can't solve the difficulty here. Thank you again! Louise000 (talk) 02:51, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Louise000, thank you for explaining this about the entrance exam criteria in Japanese art schools. It is helpful to understand why it was mentioned in a source. If there is a way to bring that context into the article I think it would be informative to readers in other geographic places that don't have that same type of drilled performance required. I too will keep my eye out re: sourcing. In the meantime it's in article history. A note could be put on the talk page as well. Happy editing! Netherzone (talk) 03:05, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion contested: Draft:Narayan Maharana
Hello Netherzone. I am just letting you know that I contested the speedy deletion of Draft:Narayan Maharana, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: This page was created before User:Tinkubhoi was blocked, so G5 doesn't apply here. Thank you. BangJan1999 17:48, 17 August 2023 (UTC)


 * @BangJan1999 The draft was created by one of Tinkubhoi's sockpuppets, who created the draft is blocked along with scores of other socks. So I think the speedy was appropriate, as new socks keep popping up and recreating the draft in various permutations of Narayan Maharana's name. Promotional editing by a team of socks is NOT what article creation should be about, at least in my opinion. Pinging another editor who is familiar with the situation (and who had filed the SPI) for advice on the best way to deal with these drafts. @Paper9oll -  See [] for more information. Thank you for your concern. Netherzone (talk) 18:10, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @BangJan1999 As stated by Netherzone above, I agreed that a team of socks using draft to circumvent around mainspace by making it look as if it's an article from the mainspace by removing any AfC-related templates (excep the title gave it away) and also as a means to promote themselves by creating autobiography of either themselves or someone that they know personally isn't what article creation should be about. I believed that WP:DENY should be applied here, not sure if WP:G11 is applicable for such situation. I also highly doubt this autobiography would make it to mainspace, if the decision is to leave it, then I predict that either more socking activities (maybe a good thing for easily identification), or it will be deleted after inactivity.  — Paper9oll  (🔔 • 📝)  03:48, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

September music
Our festival's last concert was most moving and inspiring, - also the story of Walter Arlen, - today I'm proud that I survived the decision in WP:ARBINFOBOX for 10 years, standing and singing -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:24, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Today's story is about a great pianist with an unusual career, taking off when he was 50. It's the wedding anniversary of Clara and Robert Schumann, but I was too late with our gift. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:08, 12 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you for bringing music and flowers to my talk page! My garden is totally overgrown (I was away for most of the summer). But the hostas and phlox are blooming, as well as a flush of fall roses. Netherzone (talk) 14:43, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! - Today I remember Raymond Arritt, who still helps me, five years after he died, per what he said in my darkest time on Wikipedia (placed in my edit-notice as a reminder), and by teh rulez. - Latest pics from a weekend in Berlin (one more day to come). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:58, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you dear for the reminder, I do remember Shock Brigade Harvester Boris! He did a lot of very good work on environmental and climate issues. His presence is missed. Will check out your new pix when I find a moment. Busy time for me at work! Netherzone (talk) 17:29, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! - My story today is The Company of Heaven ("company" with a double meaning, but angelic company in the end). - Pictures of the one more day yes, but no others yet, it's a week with concert or opera almost every night! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:24, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

D**ete and such
I noticed in AfD discussions you sometimes type out "k**p" "del*te" and such. I can't figure this out. I am curious why you're doing this. Graywalls (talk) 23:27, 26 September 2023 (UTC)


 * I do it so that the closing admin doesn't accidentally double count the !vote. For example if they do a search of the AfD for the word "delete" and then count the times it's used in the AfD, that could cause an error in the analysis. I've seen this happen long ago, when AfD was a bit more about "vote counting" and less about policy. I just do it as a courtesy for closures. Netherzone (talk) 23:36, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Hello
Hi, want to be friends? )))))) Glebushko0703 (talk) 07:18, 5 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello, @Glebushko0703, I think you must have contacted me because one of your articles is at AfD: Articles for deletion/List of automotive artists. I made some suggestions for how you could try to improve it - keep that link or copy the list of artists I mentioned to your sandbox if you want to keep working on it to improve it. The problem with it was that the artists that included are not notable - by Wikipedia standards, and that "Artland" that you linked to is a poor quality source that doesn't even mention their automotive art at all. It looks like each artist's Artland entry is generated by AI, or just copy-pasted for each artist.
 * You can learn more about notability for people here: WP:N, and for the general notability criteria here: WP:GNG and the specific subject notability criteria here: WP:NARTIST. For help as a new editor, read WP:YFA which is a how-to for "your first article." You would need to find references for each (notable) artist that specifically mentions their work on cars either depicting cars, using cars as material to make art work (for example John Chamberlain) or who address "car culture" in their work. Add those references (also called sources or citations) to the article or draft using the correct format....more info can be found here: WP:CITE. Please feel free to use the suggestions for artists that I made at the AfD to your sandbox or to a user page where you can start to re-build the article, or go ahead and do that to the existing article before it gets deleted (although I'm pretty sure it's going to be deleted as is.) The references are REALLY important to include.
 * Having said that, I do think there is some inherent notability in the general subject of automotive art. (Hence my long comment on the AfD.) Also, the editor who nominated it, Bearcat, is super experienced and made some good points in his nomination. You can also add your comments or !vote to the AfD. And you can also ask that it be "Draftified" rather than deleted, so you can keep working on it, but it won't be in "article space" until you submit the draft for review through Articles for Creation.
 * Good luck with your editing activities and try not to get frustrated with all the "rules"; they exist for a reason. BTW, this is the busiest time of year at my job right now, so my time is limited. If you have questions, ask at the WP:TEAHOUSE or if your question is more technical the WP:HELPDESK where friendly, experienced editors can help. Happy editing! Netherzone (talk) 15:32, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Lewis Josselyn AfD
What is going on with that relisting by some normal user?? I feel like there's a pretty strong consensus on delete.. don't you? Graywalls (talk) 02:11, 10 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Something seems off about the relisting. I don't think it needs relisting, I think consensus is clear and to relist is just going to build a higher, longer and deeper wall of text with the same points being made. Netherzone (talk) 02:20, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
 * And Henderson involved AfDs are always, I mean always very time consuming. Graywalls (talk) 02:23, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Not just the AfDs, the clean up of these articles it taking dozens of hours. Not to mention the tsunami of edit requests. What a waste of editors time. There are also other COI articles I've found that were not disclosed. Netherzone (talk) 03:14, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Greghenderson2006
Hello Netherzone, and, as someone whose been involved with verifiability, neutrality and COI issues related to articles created by Greg, this maybe of your interest Special:Diff/1178463080. Graywalls (talk) 06:26, 6 October 2023 (UTC)


 * @Graywalls I have left my own opinion on the relevant talk page. For the avoidance of doubt I have not been influenced by your message to me. 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 08:47, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Graywalls, I have left my comment on the appropriate talk page. It is reflective of the ongoing problems over the past 9 years when I first became aware of the COI-family geneaology articles. Like @Timtrent I have not been influenced by this message and had already formulated my thoughts on the matter. Netherzone (talk) 13:46, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Martha Diamond image issue
Hi Netherzone: We corresponded last spring about the page I created for the artist Adrian Berg, which you thanked me for. I have now gone back to the entry for the artist Martha Diamond, a previously existing stub to which I contributed last spring. Over the last two days I have added new information, consolidated four very small sections into one, and uploaded an image of one of her paintings, to which of course she holds copyright. In this last effort I've run into a little difficulty: a bot cited it as too large, so I downsized it, and my attempts to attach a Media data and Non-free use rationale form to the file page has run awry. I've read some help pages and while most other aspects of Wikipedia editing seem fairly straightforward, those involving use of images—especially fair use—do not. The more help pages I read, the more confused I get. Any advice on how to delete the too-large image file, generate a proper rationale form for the image I'll be using, and properly attach it to the file page would be much appreciated. Many thanks, LordlyJames (talk) 22:52, 23 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello @LordlyJames, and thank you for reaching out. I read through the Martha Diamond article, and before I respond to the photo issues, it is best that we address the overall promotional/advertorial tone of the article. Normally I would tag an article written in this way for WP:PROMO and WP:PUFFERY, as it is written in language that seems to serve the marketing of her work. Encyclopedia articles must be written in a neutral, encyclopedic manner that focuses on biographic content. Much of what has been added belongs on her gallery's website or her personal website, or in a catalog essay on her work, not in an encyclopedia.
 * I'd also probably tag it with WP:COI, as it appears to be written either by the artist themself, or by a PR agent or gallerist. Do you have a personal or professional connection to the artist?
 * As to cleaning up the article, I will help with that, as she is clearly notable and qualifies for an article. However, the name-dropping of other artists and galleries that sell and promote her work and other non-neutral content should be removed. Once it is cleaned up, we can then discuss photos and the use of non-free imagery. I realize this may not be the answer you were seeking, but know that these suggestions are based on WP's policies and guidelines; it takes a while to learn how things work around here. I made several of the same mistakes when I was a new editor. Please don't let this message discourage you or hesitate to ask further questions as they arise. Best regards, Netherzone (talk) 11:50, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, and thank you for your comments. Reading the edits you have done in response to my latest edits on this entry, however, I can't help wondering if I have angered you, perhaps by making changes without first responding to your comments? If so, I apologize. Having spent the better part of three days—far more time than I intended—working on this relatively short article, I must admit to feeling extremely discouraged. I reached out to you because you were quite supportive of my first contribution, and I based my latest edits on my understanding of what made that work, as well as much longer articles on such artists as Joan Mitchell and David Salle—which almost uniformly include galleries they have worked with and/or other artists who have influenced them. I'm sure I do not understand the nuances of Wikipedia's requirements, but I abhor puffery and I certainly did not intend to write anything that resembled it. I also value Wikipedia, and I would like to continue to contribute to it. I have no intention of arguing every edit, but there are a couple that I don't understand. If you would like to work with me on this, I would appreciate it. LordlyJames (talk) 05:19, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @LordlyJames, thank you for you message. I'm sorry you feel discouraged, that was certainly not my intention. I realize you are here in good faith, and I too have no interest of arguing every edit. Wikipedia is a collaborative project, and I am happy to work together on this. The best way forward would be to post a message on the article talk page with the edits you disagree with and I will respond there, and if any other editors are watching the article they can also contribute to the discussion form a consensus. This process follows WP's guidance on the Bold, Revert, Discuss cycle; more info can be found at this link: WP:BRD.
 * I understand that you have worked on other artist articles, however, IMO it (the Martha Diamond article} was written with a promotional tone, similar to editors with a conflict of interest, paid or unpaid. Conflict of interest (COI) editing involves contributing to Wikipedia about yourself, family, friends, clients, employers, or your financial and other relationships. Any external relationship can trigger a conflict of interest. Someone having a conflict of interest is a description of a situation, not a judgment about that person's opinions, integrity, or good faith. Please read WP:COI for more information. If you do have a connection to the artist, I am still happy to work with you however the collaborative process is slightly different.
 * Do you have a connection to Martha Diamond? Netherzone (talk) 10:10, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @Netherzone, thank you for your explanation, and I hope you will excuse the delayed response. The past couple of days have been quite busy.
 * I do know Martha Diamond. No, I am not a publicist, for her or anyone else, nor am I a gallerist, and I certainly am not being paid for my contributions. I have contributed to articles that seemed to need building out (or in a couple of cases correcting), and this article is an example of that. But I apologize for not familiarizing myself first with the COI rules. I can't say I agree with all of your assessments, but if I want to address any specific edits I will do so on the article's Talk page, as you suggested. LordlyJames (talk) 20:27, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
 * LordlyJames, Thank you for disclosing a connection with the subject. The following is from our guidelines for Conflict of Interest editors regarding "supplying photographs and media files":
 * Editors with a COI are encouraged to upload high-quality media files that are appropriately licensed for Wikipedia and that improve our coverage of a subject. For more information, follow the instructions at Commons. In some cases, the addition of media files to an article may be an uncontroversial edit that editors with a COI can make directly, but editors should exercise discretion and rely on talk pages when images may be controversial or promotional. If the addition of an image is challenged by another editor, it is controversial. The use of non-free contents are restricted. Generally, using press photos or images provided by client who wish to feature them in the article but unwilling to irrevocably release the copyright under Creative Commons is largely unacceptable. Editors may not upload images provided by client for "Wikipedia article purpose only" and falsely claim they're licensed under CC BY-SA. Netherzone (talk) 16:02, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Editors with a COI are encouraged to upload high-quality media files that are appropriately licensed for Wikipedia and that improve our coverage of a subject. For more information, follow the instructions at Commons. In some cases, the addition of media files to an article may be an uncontroversial edit that editors with a COI can make directly, but editors should exercise discretion and rely on talk pages when images may be controversial or promotional. If the addition of an image is challenged by another editor, it is controversial. The use of non-free contents are restricted. Generally, using press photos or images provided by client who wish to feature them in the article but unwilling to irrevocably release the copyright under Creative Commons is largely unacceptable. Editors may not upload images provided by client for "Wikipedia article purpose only" and falsely claim they're licensed under CC BY-SA. Netherzone (talk) 16:02, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Maryam Yakubova (educator)
Hi Netherzone. How do you know that Maryam Yakubova (educator) died in 2018 as you're claiming in the description to File:Maryam Yakubova (educator).jpg? If you know of a reliable source (even a non-English one) that can be cited in support of such a claim, please add content about her death supported by the source to the article. Right now, the article is currently listed as a BLP, which means that the non-free image you uploaded to use is questionable per WP:FREER. Unless it can be confirmed that she has died per WP:BDP, the file likely going to need to be deleted as replaceable non-free use since non-free images of still living persons are pretty much never allowed. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:39, 14 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi, If you think I made a mistake, you are free to delete the file. I did not create the article. I was going by the death date that was present in the article and had no reason at the time to doubt the date or the source that was provided with it at that time. It was nominated for deletion by a globally banned editor in a rather contentious AfD, and I was one of the editors that helped clean it up and save it from deletion. If the use of the file, (which I uploaded in good faith based on the sourced death date in the article at that time), is "never allowed" please do go ahead and delete whatever needs to be deleted. Thanks and best, Netherzone (talk) 20:54, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks for clarifying things. There's, however, no content or related sources cited currently in the article about her death. You did make this edit though followed by this which most likely led to this and this. Do you still feel the non-free use of the file you uploaded is justifiable even though her death can't be verified? Can update the non-free use rationale on the file's page explaining why if so? The file can then be discussed at WP:FFD or otherwise tagged for speedy deletion per WP:F7 if someone else disagrees with your assessment. If, on the other hand, you don't feel the non-free use of the file is still justifiable, you can tag the file for speedy deletion yourself per WP:G7 or simply remove it and let it be deleted per WP:F5. If someone else re-adds it, the file can the be discussed at FFD. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:53, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I removed the photo from the article. Thank you for the heads-up. Netherzone (talk) 04:20, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Since the file is now orphaned non-free use, a bot will likely add a notification about it being tagged for speedy deletion per WP:F5 to your user talk page in a day or so. If you just ignore the notification, the file will be speedily deleted in five days or so. WP:F5 deletions are generally considered non-contentious; so, if you're able to find a source verifying that the subject is indeed deceased, you can request that the file be restored via WP:REFUND if you want to use it again. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:04, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

October music
My story today is sad but great. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:45, 6 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I am sorry to read that he passed on recently, although it is wonderful that he brought joy to so many during his lifetime. Netherzone (talk) 20:04, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes. - A few more pics, and see my talk for what we sang today (I'm the woman in red), and what Tabea Zimmermann played (today's story on her birthday): I heard it, and it's on YouTube. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:46, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Wow, Tabea Zimmermann seems like an amazing woman! Playing since she was a small child. Thank you for sharing! Netherzone (talk) 00:26, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * ... and then I sat next to her one concert, and we chatted a bit, and I realised who she was only when I returned home ;) - a tenor today, - take him to GA or not, that is the question. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:43, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
 * More pics, and today's story is on a birthday, and the real DYK was already on that birthday --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:16, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * User talk:Gerda Arendt keeps track of "my" music and memories, and just today I have a juxtaposition of music performed by the two church choirs in town, one I sang in and one where I listened, to music about love, evening and night. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:48, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Today, it's a place that inspired me, musings if you have time. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:11, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * A Romanian woman composer is today's topic. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:16, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for sharing the arts with our community, and the world! Netherzone (talk) 17:41, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I love sharing my learning process with the world ;) - I had not noticed her name until she died. It was different for Violeta Dinescu. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:53, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I thought of Brian Bouldton today, and his ways to compromise. - I'm on vacation again, more pics to come, but too tired after church (pictured on my talk), hiking and paella. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:57, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Santa Fe artists
An edit by you a few hours ago linking to Camino del Monte Sol Historic District showed on my watchlist, and it got me editing a bit there, which you perhaps noticed. The redlinks for artists there were bothering me and I resolved a few, e.g. by finding there's an article already about DeHuff so just a redirect was needed (or maybe it should be a correction of usage on the Camino page, instead?). I was musing about starting and article on Frank Applegate but decided not to, and now I see you have. Thanks so much!

By any chance, are you willing to start one or two articles about the last redlinks, Datus Myers (probably should be a redirect, and article should be at Datus Ensign Myers) and Alice Clark Myers, too? I corrected a bit about Datus at List of United States post office murals. In my browsing I found a letter by Willa Cather referring to the pair of them in a hilarious way. :)

Either way, thanks for getting Frankie into blue. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 00:00, 3 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi Doncram, thanks so much for your note. It's been interesting to learn about the group of artists that Applegate associated with. I'm looking for a copyright free image of his compound and historic house. Let me know if you have any thoughts as to where I might find one. UNM holds an archive of his papers & photos, but I can't seem to crack open how to access the images.
 * Yes, I'd be happy to start an article on Datus Ensign Myers and Alice Clark Myers. That's a beautiful mural on the P.O. murals list. And thanks for the laugh re: the Willa Cather letter....and funny that she misspelled Mabel Dodge Luhan's name as Luhon...maybe on purpose?


 * I didn't notice that, you have a good eye. Calling her friend "Mrs. Luhan" would be a bit funny, already, in spirit of her punchy letter.  And "Mrs. Luhon" is further so.  But it's hard for me to verify in her handwriting whether she wrote "Luhon" or "Luhan" (the first page of the letter).  Maybe there was careful study of her handwriting and it was judged correctly to be an "o", I dunno.


 * Feel free to expand the Applegate article, today I also created stubs on Fremont Ellis and Walter Mruk, two artists in Applegate's milieux. Best regards, Netherzone (talk) 00:13, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

P.S. Oh, there's one more: my editing added another redlink for Leonora Frances Curtin Paloheimo / Leonora Paloheimo (1903-1999), who I assumed is Wikipedia-notable too, sorry. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 00:05, 3 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello again, Datus Ensign Myers has been created as a short article (and a redirect for Datus Myers was made). The others, Alice Clark Myers and Leonora Frances Curtin Paloheimo / Leonora Paloheimo are on my TO DO list. Thank you for these suggestions, and have a good evening Doncram. Netherzone (talk) 00:56, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Mail :)
Indigenous girl (talk) 23:53, 8 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Got it, thank you. I replied and also copied you on another thread, so look for two emails from me. Netherzone (talk) 00:03, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/István Barta (painter)
Hey there! I wanted to let you know that I closed this discussion as a speedy keep, since the nomination was withdrawn. Enjoy whatever merging, redirecting, etc. you feel is best. The discussion you had at the AfD was some of the most congenial collaboration I've ever seen on an AfD. It made my little wiki-heart happy. Joyous! Noise! 16:37, 9 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi Joyous! Thank you for the close. I will work with on the merge and redirection of the content. They are an awesome Wikipedian! Netherzone (talk) 16:42, 9 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks ! I certainly agree that Netherzone is a most congenial collaborator :)
 * Netherzone, I'll go ahead an do the merge as I think it is an uncontroversial merge. No permission or discussion is needed if you think the merge is uncontroversial; just do it (but it might get reverted). per WP:MERGE. I am now intrigued by the Hungarian avant-garde, and artists fleeing Socialism in Eastern Europe. Yikes! another rabbit hole... WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 20:36, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Great work, I commented on the target article talk page. Thank you for your work on this, and your research. I know what you mean about rabbit holes, which is one of the things I love about WP - so much to learn....it's endless. Enjoy what is left of the weekend, and see you around! Netherzone (talk) 21:18, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Thoughts on this article draft?
Hello!! I hope you've been well... Not sure if this is your wheelhouse necessarily, but I thought it might be? If so wondered if you had any thoughts on this draft I've been working on: Madame Zo Chainsawpunk (talk) 15:27, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @Chainsawpunk! Good to hear from you. When I saw you created the draft I new it would be interesting and well crafted. I made a few improvements, and accepted it via AfC. I also adding that she's in the Fondation H Collection (you can see images of her work on their Collection link) so she's a clear pass of WP:GNG and WP:NARTIST. There's a lot of content about her on the Fondation H website which can be used to improve the article. It's on my watchlist now. Thank you for another great article on a textile artist. Her work is marvelous! Netherzone (talk) 15:31, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm so glad you like it! Really hope to be able to see her work in person one day... Chainsawpunk (talk) 15:35, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's so great to know about her work, it's awesome! I am now officially a Madame Zo fan. Netherzone (talk) 19:43, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

2 Barnstars for you
Oh gosh, what a nice gift from you, ! It's my pleasure to help editors like you and work together on improving articles. Every one of your article creations are well researched and crafted, and on interesting, notable topics. I thank YOU for your contributions to the encyclopedia, and for being a wiki-friend! Netherzone (talk) 19:39, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

A kitten for you!
He appreciates your help on preserving the environment, via the Climate Museum. Thanks friend!

Star  Mississippi  15:06, 8 October 2023 (UTC) 


 * It's always a pleasure to collaborate with you! Netherzone (talk) 00:21, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for review draft Rory Pilgrim page
Hi Netherzone,

Thanks for your thoughtful review of the draft Rory Pilgrim page. It's the first full page I built and your feedback is very welcome. As suggested I added original sources to the exhibition list and deleted the exhibitions, performances, screenings, and collections to max 5.

Kind regards,

-t TiliavonLinne (talk) 14:28, 11 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Yes I just saw that it was improved. I'll have another look at it, and either I or another reviewer will likely accept the draft based on the fact that he clearly meets WP:NARTIST #4 criteria for establishing the notability of artists. Nice work on your first article! Netherzone (talk) 14:32, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Uh oh...I just noticed there are copyright violations in the first few sentences that were taken directly from here . Those must be removed immediately, along with any other COPY VIO material, or any original research (claims that are not backed up by sources. I'm going to decline again so it can be cleaned up. Once those issues are resolved, please resubmit the draft. Netherzone (talk) 14:38, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Okido! Will remediate these issues immediately. Thank you! TiliavonLinne (talk) 14:51, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I removed the sentences that were copied word-for-word. Please check the draft for any close paraphrasing and clean those up. Also check that all the content is properly sourced with no original research WP:OR. Then the draft should be good to go. Netherzone (talk) 14:53, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Super, I added a paraphrased sentence (with external source) that clarifies the media the artists uses. My rationale is that I thought that could be useful for wikipedia readers interested to understand what the art work consists of. Also I checked for original research but I didn't include anything that I hadn't found an external source for. Many thanks for your help! -t TiliavonLinne (talk) 15:11, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

November music
Hevenu shalom aleichem is my story today. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:42, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

I added some images from Aachen, taken 21 Oct. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:08, 3 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi Gerda, thanks for keeping in touch and for your contributions. What a wonderful photographic survey of some of the beautiful architecture of Aachen. It's a lovely town. As usual, your images of food are delightful and look delicious. Cheers...the autumn is truly here. Netherzone (talk) 15:28, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, there are more now ;) - I had no idea how much of Aachen is much younger than it looks. - I proudly remember having sung in an oratorio premiere seven years ago OTD. - Different questions: I had some mushrooms in recent images that I couldn't identify, - could you? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:19, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Sounds like you had a great trip! I will have a look at your mushroom photos. I'm an amateur forager who goes out looking for mushrooms with experts or mycologists who really know what they are doing. - Usually when identifying mushrooms one needs to see the top cap, the underside (to see if it has gills or pores like porcini boletes and the color thereof), and the stem to see if it has a ring-like veil or emerges from an egg-like structure. We also do a "sniff" test in the field, and sometimes a "nibble and spit" test. Experts do a spore print and look at the spores under a microscope for positive identification. But some species are quite easy to identify (and some have poisonous look-alikes). There are some good apps like iNaturalist and websites to help with identification. The websites I use are North America specific, but I'll bet Germany has some good ones! Netherzone (talk) 18:40, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * For eating, I know what I'm doing ;) - but there these others pictured that I wouldn't eat, feeling that just saying "mushroom" looks a bit silly. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:46, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Mushrooms_on_tree_trunk,_Ehrenbach.jpg Mushrooms on tree trunk_Ehrenbach
 * This looks a bit like mature Amanita bisporigera or Amanita phalloides (death cap) which is one you don't want to mess around with! The stipes (stems) have a ring which is characteristic of the family. The Amanita gilbertii is indigenous to Germany, but is a little less delicate with more bulbus stems. - Also compare with Amanita citrina, which is a false "death cap". If you got a good look at the top of the cap you may be able to do a positive identification. All of these are usually found in pine or oak forests. But you should really ask an expert! Netherzone (talk) 19:17, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for looking! - More, if you like: today I have three items on the Main page, almost too much of a good thing! Bach's amazing cantata with the unusual scale, first performed 300 years ago OTD, the nun for the prostitutes, and Schumann's wedding gift for Clara. Also first day of vacation pics uploaded. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:32, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Today is St. Martin's Day, which stands for sharing. Sharing one more day of vacation ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:13, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I began another day of vacation pics, with the deepest blue of the sea ;) - we celebrate the birthday of a friend who wrote quite a book about the compositions of a man who will turn 300 soon. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:28, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
 * You are so prolific! How do you find the time to perform, write, bike, hike, vacation, sing, write more, photograph, attend performances, eat excellent meals all the time, and write some more? You have an abundance of energy, Gerda. I will check out your new contributions (it seems you are back in Spain again) the food photos are guaranteed to make me hungry! Netherzone (talk) 21:00, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you ;) - I was in Spain, I'm just slow uploading, but a few more --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:28, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Precious anniversary
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:35, 18 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you Gerda, it is lovely for my work here to be appreciated. YOU are precious! Netherzone (talk) 21:00, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:38, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Fanal, Madeira.jpg I was looking at some of your photos this morning. I don't know how I missed this one from this Spring of a grove of trees in mist in Fanal Forest, Madeira. It's truly a beautiful image, slightly otherworldly, it looks like something from a fairy tale. Netherzone (talk) 15:04, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Excellent description of my impression! - Also time to thank you for improving article quality in November! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:07, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * My story today, Canticle I: My beloved is mine and I am his, - the composer, born OTD 110 years ago, didn't want it shorter (but the publisher), more here. I'm back to a good tradition: a Britten composition on his birthday. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:00, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * User Talk:Gerda Arendt --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:00, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Today: in memoriam Jerome Kohl who said (In Freundschaft): "and I hope that they have met again in the beyond and are making joyous music together" --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:16, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Your brilliant friend brought Stockhausen into the lives of so many. A beautiful tribute, Gerda. Netherzone (talk) 16:56, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Dawwww...
Grand Prismatic Spring is a high honor indeed. Honestly I'm touched. TY. jengod (talk) 16:17, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Maryam Yakubova (educator).jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Maryam Yakubova (educator).jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 18:32, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

December music
Thank you for what you do and stand for! I wish you a good festive season and a peaceful New Year! -- Today's story is about Maria Callas, on her centenary. - Aaron Copland died OTD, and Jerome Kohl (mentioned in November) said something wise on Copland's talk. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:01, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

A new church year began (listen), - a new era? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:04, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Today's story is about parts of my life. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:27, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you Gerda, I always appreciate your updates. I've got a lot going on IRL right now, so will read these new links when I get a chance. Bravo/Brava! Netherzone (talk) 18:38, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! - Today, I managed to get the pics to snow (on 28 Nov), and heard a lovely concert, after listening to a miracle of meditative dreaming on 6 December (or just click on music). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:05, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * ... and today, to Paris (29 Nov) with a visit to the Palais Garnier, - to match the story of Medea Amiranashvili, - don't miss listening to her expressive voice. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * My story today is about Michael Robinson, - it's an honor to have known him. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:12, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for what you do and stand for! I wish you a good festive season and a peaceful New Year! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:33, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you Gerda, and likewise, thank you for all you do and stand for - bringing music, food and nature into other's daily lives. You are a joy to know! Happy holidays and hope 2024 is a wonderful year for you and yours. Netherzone (talk) 18:17, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I just love to hear that! - Today, I have a special story to tell, of the works of a musician born 300 years ago. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:47, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I try to finish uploading images of 2023 before it ends, and reached 17 December. Happy to see Rebekka Habermas on the Main page. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:49, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 4 December 2023
 * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:09, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Happy Holidays



 * How lovely! Many thank yous for this gift of a beautiful peace dove at a time when unrest and conflict is so present around the globe. That dove is almost life sized on my screen! Happy holidays to you as well and wishing you a peaceful and serene existence where ever you may be. Netherzone (talk) 22:03, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Abby Weed Grey
Hi my culture-loving friend. Are you familiar with Grey? I was reading about Grey Art Gallery's move and tidying that article a bit when I realized how fascinating her story was. Hope you're well! Star  Mississippi  15:51, 14 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello and happy holidays! I had no idea why the Grey Art Gallery was called that, and it's interesting to learn about Abby Weed Grey. Nice work on that! I will see if I can find an image of her. Hope all is well with you and yours and that you are enjoying the holiday season.
 * I wanted to ask you, I haven't done much as far as completing any of Doncram's unfinished drafts, I guess I am a bit gun-shy because the last time I moved a draft I improved from another deceased editor, someone got a little upset because I moved it from draft space to article space w/o going thru AfC. It confused me because I'm autopatrolled, and I thought that it was OK do do that. I also did not want to burden the backlog at AfC. What do you suggest I do in the future? (I usually create new articles in my own user-space, not in draft space since I was granted the autopatrolled permissions quite some years ago.) I don't want to ruffle any feathers again. Netherzone (talk) 20:26, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi! Crazy at work, but enjoying peekaboo views of the holiday lights. You?
 * I had some vague awareness of its name roots from one of their exhibits, but I don't recall knowing just how significant her collection was or how she came about growing it. Like her mostly male predecessors, so grateful she saw this art worth preserving and collecting as a form of living history.
 * You're absolutely clear to move the articles directly in fact I think that's the best, fastest and least bureaucratic route to get these subjects in mainspace. I don't think I realized why you were asking me when we were working on Possibly's. That was one editor's opinion and definitely not policy. That said, if you're unsure on one or want a second opinion, feel free to ping me and I'm happy to give my thoughts. I'm 99% sure that anything you think is mainspace ready, I will too. Star   Mississippi  20:58, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Totally crazy at work too, but in a good way.
 * Too bad there is no birth date for Abby Weed Grey - I was going to make an infobox this morning, but it would be "too thin" without that essential piece of biographic info. And thanks for your feedback re: moving drafts, I appreciate it! Netherzone (talk) 14:29, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

New pages patrol January 2024 Backlog drive
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:10, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 24 December 2023
 * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:58, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Vikramaditya Prakash
Hi, I redid the Vikramaditya Prakash page. I am not associated with UWash and have contributed several articles to Wikipedia. Hoping to get this done. He is an important figure in the field of architectural history (my speciality). Brosi (talk) 23:03, 24 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Brosi, Do you mind explaining this edit? Netherzone (talk) 23:48, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I streamlined it a bit and brought it up to date - if that is what you mean. Brosi (talk) 01:19, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, thank you for the response, but that was not what I meant. I'm curious why you bypassed AfC and moved the draft to article space and deleted the AfC headings (including two decline notices, and a rejection of the draft) rather than allowing it to move through the correct procedure.. I am also wondering what your connection to Prakash may be. Please explain. Netherzone (talk) 01:37, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Did not intend to bypass AfC. (I did not see a 'submit for review' - maybe I was looking at the wrong place..) I cleaned up the draft that was made by someone else. I also used a format that is used by dozens of other scholars in the field. I know quite a few people in the architecture world and want to get them more visibility. So trying to get some traction on this one before I move on to someone else. Brosi (talk) 16:18, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The reason why you did not see a "submit for review" button is that the draft was rejected by the reviewer, not declined. Did you miss seeing the large red STOP sign in the large pink box at the top of the draft? It states:
 * Submission rejected on 2 November 2023 by M4V3R1CK32 (talk).
 * This topic is not sufficiently notable for inclusion in Wikipedia.
 * Netherzone (talk) 17:05, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Brosi, would you happen to have a connection to Mark Jarzombek? Netherzone (talk) 22:34, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I protest against the notion that this person is not sufficiently notable. He runs a hugely successful Blog call 'architext' that has featured some of the most important thinkers in the field! He as authored a textbook that is used by schools of architecture across the country. and so forth. If he is not sufficiently notable then I suggest that we delete a dozen or so other similar people. K. Michael Hays has not published anything remotely close in significance and he has a page. Maybe because he teaches at Harvard. I can go on and on. Brosi (talk) 23:21, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Brosi, with all due respect, did you come here just to argue with me? The draft was declined and eventually rejected by three other editors, not by me.
 * Also, you would you mind answering my question above re: Mark Jarzombek? Netherzone (talk) 23:30, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry - not trying to argue. Jarzombek is a good friend. Among architectural historians everyone knows everyone to some degree. I will contact M4V3R1CK32. That is probably the best route then. Brosi (talk) 15:04, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the apology, Brosi, I appreciate it. Is Vikramaditya Prakash also a good friend of yours? Netherzone (talk) 15:12, 28 December 2023 (UTC) Courtesy ping -  Netherzone (talk) 15:13, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Brosi, I've left you a message on your talk page. Netherzone (talk) 04:08, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Women in Red January 2024
--Lajmmoore (talk) 20:17, 28 December 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Tails RfA
Hello!

Just wanted to tell you that you didn't sign your vote. Brat Forelli🦊 18:06, 29 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Fixed, thank you for the heads up! Netherzone (talk) 18:11, 29 December 2023 (UTC)