User talk:Newyorkbrad/Archive/2023/Nov

weird edit
I'm glad it was removed quickly, it was freaky. USNavelObservatory (talk) 23:56, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Nov 15: WikiWednesday Salon + Wikimedia NYC Executive Director job
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--Wikimedia New York City Team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:23, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Wed Dec 6: Hacking Night + job listing
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--Wikimedia New York City Team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:40, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

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Request for you to help sort out a hairy situation
Hello @Newyorkbrad, There's a delicate situation going on at the Fan Xiaoqin article, where the subject is a minor with a severe intellectual disability, and many sources are in Chinese (and disability terms do not translate well). There's an ongoing deletion discussion and I would appreciate you bringing in your expertise over whether to delete the article over privacy concerns. Thanks,  Bremps  ...  15:48, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I will take a look at it. Regards, Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:16, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan
Hi Brad. I've been thinking about what you said about ARBIPA TBANs at AE. (CC @Galobtter, @ScottishFinnishRadish.) It's something I've been wrestling with for a while. A few months ago I got the community to narrow a similarly broad sanction about Armenia and Azerbaijan, although that was a topic-wide ECR, which is even more onerous than a single-editor TBAN. If I recall correctly, ArbCom did consider a while ago whether to scale back the IPA sanctions to just the India/Pakistan conflict, but there was community opposition. I wonder whether something akin to what we did for GS/AA, "Politics, ethnic relations, and conflicts involving India, Pakistan, or Afghanistan, broadly construed", would work, but given how relentlessly politicized so much of Indian daily life is (or appears to be, from this Westerner's perspective), and given the English-proficiency issues that often make it difficult to communicate sanctions in the topic area to begin with, I wonder how feasible that would be. There's also the matter of Indian entertainment, its own ball of worms, which is the sort of thing that would normally become a GS area rather than a CTOP area (not that there's any logic to the norm that pop-culture conflicts become GS and political ones become CTOP, but that seems to be how things go). Maybe if ArbCom added to the CTOP designation for IPA something like "Admins are encouraged to use narrower sanctions than bans from the full topic area, when feasible", perhaps with a list of recommended subtopic sanctionss. But that's not something I've thought about a lot. -- Tamzin  &#91;cetacean needed&#93; (they&#124;xe&#124;she) 19:10, 29 November 2023 (UTC)


 * It's a tough cookie to crack for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is general unfamiliarity with the extent of politicization and what is affected by it among much of the admin corps. It can be tough to know what is going to trigger conflict if you're only passing familiar with the topics at hand. That makes crafting narrow but still effective topic bans pretty difficult. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:17, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
 * IMO we should simply exclude Afghanistan from ARBIPA. That would not be the same thing as scaling it back to just the India/Pakistan conflict, not by a long chalk, as it would keep caste and social groups, which is one of the worst and most sock-infested areas of Wikipedia, and also keep Indian history articles (always, always relevant to modern politics, especially to Hindu/Muslim conflicts). Excluding Afghanistan was considered when arbcom last took a look at these sanctions, but that and other IPA suggestions came to nothing, and few arbs seemed very interested. Perhaps indeed because they shared the general unfamiliarity of which the Radish speaks. Bishonen &#124; tålk 22:10, 29 November 2023 (UTC).
 * I think one of the problems is that it is very hard to create a custom topic ban in general - if narrower sanctions are to be encouraged there should be a suggested list. Custom topic bans tend to cause issues with where the boundaries are and not being scoped properly. For India a topic ban would also have to include caste etc so it's a lot. On Armenia and Azerbaijan I did topic ban an editor once from the whole area and I thought about narrowing it - but it's hard when there are edits like changing the nationality of a 13th century poet. The challenge here is that nationalistic POV-pushing tends to encompass a lot of topics (I recall a case of an editor changing the origin of a food to be from India). Galobtter (talk) 01:42, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * In the vein, there's also the opportunity cost involved. AE is already right up there in the most time intensive admin duties, which I'm sure is one of the reasons it's so poorly attended. If someone already had to spend an hour reading diffs and sources it's tough to spend another couple hours doing the necessary research to craft a fitting topic ban, and the potential future time dealing with the ban being too narrow or the uncertainty of the editor trying to figure out the bounds. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:51, 30 November 2023 (UTC)