User talk:Nick Moyes/Archive 16

Getty royalty free images
Hi Nick, Greetings to you. I tried to find info on free copyright images which I would upload into WikiCommon and wonder if images from Getty royalty free images -see here or  are acceptable in Wikipedia/would the images considered CC-BY-SA? Thank you.  CASSIOPEIA(talk) 11:16, 1 February 2019 (UTC)-
 * AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! No, no, no nooo! Don't even think of it!!!! A quick look at that site indicates that you can buy an image for multiple uses without having to pay royalties each time you use it for a different purpose. (Normally you pay for one specified use, like a calendar or a book or a postcard, but aren't normally licenced to use it in another format without paying another fee.) I think this system makes you pay once, and you're licenced to use that image in different formats. Even assuming you want to pay for the original image, they wouldn't be transferring their copyright over to you, nor are they releasing it to you under a free licence for any other company to use for free. (licence).That would soon destroy their business model. So, steer well clear of that one. But thanks for asking. Nick Moyes (talk) 11:28, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you Nick for the quick response and that was my thought as well but just to check with you to confirm. Thank you and cheers.  CASSIOPEIA(talk) 11:36, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Promotion
Hello. I see that you frequently respond about promotional articles at the Teahouse. I nominated Will Gray for deletion. The author has made some comments about the article on his talk page and then emailed me directly for feedback. Vanishingrabbit is probably Will Gray. Would you mind answering him; I know you have all the right things to say to a novice at your fingertips. Thanks. MB 22:29, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm assuming there was nothing inappropriate in the direct email? You didn't suggest there was. I'll take a look, but would comment that, if proven, possibly Inner Magic Circle membership could possibly go towards notability (never had to consider that before). Also surprised COI or PAID has never been raised with them. A clear SPA, I'd say. Might not be able to reply to them today - but will see what I can do in as diplomatic a way as possible. Nick Moyes (talk) 00:19, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Nothing inappropriate in the email. He left "messages" without pings that did not cause a response, so he tried emails. He has left you "messages" on his talk page now in the same way. He edited the article today and still hasn't declared a COI. This will all be moot if the AFD ends in deletion.MB
 * , Happening to come here, it is much better to make such comments without actually naming the real-life individual directly.  DGG ( talk ) 00:10, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
 * , I don't understand. I mentioned an article (Will Gray), and an editor (Vanishingrabbit) who sent me an email about that article. MB 02:19, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I would have worded it " Vanishingrabbit is possibly the person who is the subject of the article    It attracts less attention  DGG ( talk ) 06:24, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I've fallen foul of nearly/actually WP:OUTING another editor where the connection seemed so obvious it was almost impossible to conclude anything else, but have since learned to be a little more circumspect, despite those suspicions. But, on different note, where would be the equivalent of WP:RSN to discuss a notability eligibility, other than just by general consensus at AfD? I was aware that Magic Circle has a very select and somewhat secret 'Inner Magic Circle' where the awarding of that membership honour might potentially be deemed as meeting the first point of WP:ANYBIO. Is there a venue where that could be considered, or is the Talk page of WP:NBIO the best place for it? Cheers, Nick Moyes (talk) 09:40, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
 * ah. my favorite topic! The place for notability to be considered is AfD. AfD can do in individual cases whatever the local immediate consensus wants to. All the guidelines it uses rely upon interpretations, and not the literal use of the stated guidelines; there are some standard ways of interpretations, and they are of different strengths.  There is no way in WP of getting people to accept what they do not want to. If you want to argue for a special inner circle, you'll need some evidence. If there's nothing clear that you can point to, you are not likely to succeed on that sort of argument.
 * The best course of action if something is not accepted there is to wait and try again later, usually about 6 months later. Beyond that, all that can be done is to look for a wider consensus. The next step up from AfD is Deletion Review, which can sometimes get quite a wide audience. If the case is going to be unclear, I advise against it, because a loss there can be harmful to a later decision. I usually recommend working by interpretations and exceptions, rather than changing formal rules. Changing rules is difficult, and deceptive, because even if changed, nobody is obliged to follow them. But if you wanted to change a notability criterion, the usual place is WT:N. But I advise you on the basis of my experience not to do this for what amounts to a special case. Special cases are always best handled by interpretation and exceptions. Rules changes are only worthwhile when it's a general matter, or something which occurs frequently, and it's something where you can expect to get people to care, . and when you are prepared  for losing the first few times, and it taking years to accomplish anything substantial.  If, as you imply, it's not a formal membership, but something semi-secret, I'd advise against trying.
 * More specifically, there are many areas where we accept certain organizations or awards or memberships as implying or even proving notability; either they are ones where there is general agreement among everyone interested, as WP:PROF, but in other fields it can take a long while to establish, and a long while to change.  DGG ( talk ) 05:27, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you for that considered reply, . It was what I thought, but I wanted to ask it on behalf of, who I'm pinging, so that he's aware of how we roll. So, in essence, we leave it up to the individual "Deletion Discussion" to asses notability, except in the case of very special honours such as academic awards, fellowships or prizes. Demonstrating that any award or membership itself is exceptional might help at that discussion, but can't be discussed elsewhere to then be applied globally across Wikipedia. Many thanks, Nick Moyes (talk) 11:23, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Appreciate inspirational response
Thank you, Nick Moyes, for your most helpful response to my Teahouse question about use of primary sources, and also the welcome that my students would receive if they need assistance. This week they are evaluating an existing article in their sandboxes, and adding a question to the article's talk page. They will start researching and drafting some content next week, and I will suggest they consider the Teahouse at that point. As for the collection in the Fashion Institute of Technology's archives, I will see what I can do about passing on the publication suggestion and perhaps helping to add pictures to Wikimedia Commons. I am an academic librarian, and hope to raise the awareness in my university's library about Wikipedia participation, so local archival collections might be a good place to begin, particularly if the library faculty in special collections are able to assist. I'd also like to explore the idea of a possible Wikipedia Visiting Scholar, if the library administration is amenable. TrudiJ (talk) 18:24, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
 * If you pay my air fare, I'll be over in a flash!!! But seriously, thank you for your feedback. You seem to have it all under control. One very minor suggestion: if you're putting content from a genuine page into users' sandboxes for them to edit, do remember to include an edit summary attributing content to "various editors", with a link to the page in question. (That just covers the attribution issue). Good luck, and regards from the UK, Nick Moyes (talk) 23:51, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Inaccurate
Dear Nick, Sorry for not explaining the changes I have made. The information I edited were incorrect. President Momoh has never been divorced. I only removed the pieces of information on the page that are not the accurate event. I hope my changes will be reinstated.

Thanks for your consideration — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paulsilver56 (talk • contribs) 01:26, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks for reaching out. I checked the source that you had removed with the paragraph about Joseph Saidu Momoh and agree there's no specific mention of a divorce. The url you put in the edit summary when you re-removed it was wrong (it should have been: http://www.freetowncity.com/joseph-momoh/4544313070), but I have found nothing online to suggest he did get divorced, so I'm happy at this time to leave your edit in place. Nick Moyes (talk) 09:24, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

WikiProject Portals update #028, 04 Feb 2019
Here's a quicky status report:


 * Old-style portals:   1,018
 * Single-page portals: 4,367
 * Total portals:       5,385

But of course, there has been more going on than just that...

Dreamy Jazz Bot is up and running!
Dreamy Jazz Bot has been approved and is now up and running.

What it does is places missing links to orphaned portals. It places a link in the See also section of the corresponding root article, and it puts one at the top of the corresponding category page.

We have thousands of new portals that have yet to be added to the encyclopedia proper, just waiting to go live.

When they do go live, over the coming days or weeks, due to Dreamy Jazz Bot, it will be like an explosion of new portals on the scene. We should expect an increase in awareness and interest in the portals project. Perhaps even new participants.

Get ready...

Get set...

Go!

Another sockpuppet infiltrator has been discovered
User:Emoteplump, a recent contributor to the portals project, was discovered to be a sockpuppet account of an indefinitely blocked user.

When that happens, admins endeavor to eradicate everything the editor contributed. This aftermath has left a wake of destruction throughout the portals department, again.

The following portals which have been speedy deleted, are in the process of being re-created. Please feel free to help to turn these blue again:


 * Portal:Adidas
 * Portal:AFC Asian Cup
 * Portal:Airbus
 * Portal:Anhui
 * Portal:Bicycles
 * Portal:Blue Cheese
 * Portal:Boeing
 * Portal:British Airways
 * Portal:Carcinogen
 * Portal:ComfortDelGro
 * Portal:Construction
 * Portal:Corals
 * Portal:Cross-Strait relations
 * Portal:Derry
 * Portal:Duke University
 * Portal:Electricity
 * Portal:Ethnic groups
 * Portal:Extraterrestrial life
 * Portal:Flanders
 * Portal:Fujian
 * Portal:Gansu
 * Portal:German language
 * Portal:Gordon Ramsay
 * Portal:Government of Australia
 * Portal:Government of Canada
 * Portal:Government of Hong Kong
 * Portal:Government of Indonesia
 * Portal:Government of Ireland
 * Portal:Government of Japan
 * Portal:Government of Malaysia
 * Portal:Government of Russia
 * Portal:Government of Singapore
 * Portal:Government of Spain
 * Portal:Government of Thailand
 * Portal:Government of the United Kingdom
 * Portal:Government of Ukraine
 * Portal:Grapes
 * Portal:Guangxi
 * Portal:Guizhou
 * Portal:Hasbro
 * Portal:Hebei
 * Portal:Heilongjiang
 * Portal:Henan
 * Portal:Hillary Clinton
 * Portal:History of art
 * Portal:History of North America
 * Portal:History of Thailand
 * Portal:Hollywood
 * Portal:Hubei
 * Portal:Hunan
 * Portal:Hybrid (biology)
 * Portal:Hydrogen
 * Portal:Imperial College London
 * Portal:Inner Mongolia
 * Portal:Japan Airlines
 * Portal:Jet engines
 * Portal:Jet Engines
 * Portal:Jiangsu
 * Portal:Jiangxi
 * Portal:Jilin
 * Portal:Johor Bahru
 * Portal:Julius Caesar
 * Portal:JYP Entertainment
 * Portal:Kedah
 * Portal:Kelantan
 * Portal:Kuala Lumpur
 * Portal:Labuan
 * Portal:Lee Kuan Yew
 * Portal:Liaoning
 * Portal:Lufthansa
 * Portal:Magnetism
 * Portal:McLaren
 * Portal:Menstrual cycle
 * Portal:Monash University
 * Portal:Mutations
 * Portal:Nanyang Technological University
 * Portal:National University of Singapore
 * Portal:Negeri Sembilan
 * Portal:Nestlé
 * Portal:Nike, Inc.
 * Portal:Ningxia
 * Portal:Nissan
 * Portal:North Africa
 * Portal:North Pole
 * Portal:Pahang
 * Portal:Penang
 * Portal:PepsiCo
 * Portal:Perak
 * Portal:Perlis
 * Portal:Qinghai
 * Portal:Quantum electrodynamics
 * Portal:Quantum mechanics
 * Portal:S.H.I.E.L.D.
 * Portal:Selangor
 * Portal:Shanxi
 * Portal:Sichuan
 * Portal:SM Entertainment
 * Portal:South Pole
 * Portal:Subway (restaurant)
 * Portal:Temperature
 * Portal:Terengganu
 * Portal:Uber
 * Portal:Veterinary medicine
 * Portal:Volvo Buses
 * Portal:Walgreens
 * Portal:Walmart
 * Portal:Xinjiang
 * Portal:Yahoo!
 * Portal:Yale University
 * Portal:YG Entertainment
 * Portal:Yunnan
 * Portal:Zhejiang

And the corresponding talk pages:


 * Portal talk:Adidas
 * Portal talk:Airbus
 * Portal talk:Bicycles
 * Portal talk:Boeing
 * Portal talk:Carcinogen
 * Portal talk:Corals
 * Portal talk:Duke University
 * Portal talk:Electricity
 * Portal talk:Ethnic groups
 * Portal talk:Flanders
 * Portal talk:Fujian
 * Portal talk:German language
 * Portal talk:Girls' Generation
 * Portal talk:Government of Australia
 * Portal talk:Government of Canada
 * Portal talk:Government of Hong Kong
 * Portal talk:Government of Indonesia
 * Portal talk:Government of Ireland
 * Portal talk:Government of Japan
 * Portal talk:Government of Malaysia
 * Portal talk:Government of Russia
 * Portal talk:Government of Singapore
 * Portal talk:Government of Spain
 * Portal talk:Government of Thailand
 * Portal talk:Government of the United Kingdom
 * Portal talk:Government of Ukraine
 * Portal talk:Grapes
 * Portal talk:Guangxi
 * Portal talk:Hebei
 * Portal talk:Henan
 * Portal talk:Hillary Clinton
 * Portal talk:History of art
 * Portal talk:Hollywood
 * Portal talk:Hubei
 * Portal talk:Hunan
 * Portal talk:Hybrid (biology)
 * Portal talk:Imperial College London
 * Portal talk:Inner Mongolia
 * Portal talk:Jet engines
 * Portal talk:Jet Engines
 * Portal talk:Jiangsu
 * Portal talk:Johor Bahru
 * Portal talk:Julius Caesar
 * Portal talk:JYP Entertainment
 * Portal talk:Kuala Lumpur
 * Portal talk:Lee Kuan Yew
 * Portal talk:Lufthansa
 * Portal talk:Magnetism
 * Portal talk:Menstrual cycle
 * Portal talk:Monash University
 * Portal talk:Mutations
 * Portal talk:Nanyang Technological University
 * Portal talk:National University of Singapore
 * Portal talk:Nike, Inc.
 * Portal talk:North Africa
 * Portal talk:PepsiCo
 * Portal talk:Quantum electrodynamics
 * Portal talk:Quantum mechanics
 * Portal talk:Sichuan
 * Portal talk:SM Entertainment
 * Portal talk:Subway (restaurant)
 * Portal talk:Temperature
 * Portal talk:Veterinary medicine
 * Portal talk:Walgreens
 * Portal talk:Walmart
 * Portal talk:Xinjiang
 * Portal talk:Yale University
 * Portal talk:YG Entertainment
 * Portal talk:Yunnan

New portals since the last issue

 * Portal:American_Horror_Story
 * Portal:Bad_Religion
 * Portal:Bicycles
 * Portal:British_Airways
 * Portal:Campania
 * Portal:Ciara
 * Portal:Derry
 * Portal:Extraterrestrial_life
 * Portal:Fujian
 * Portal:Guangxi
 * Portal:Imperial_College_London
 * Portal:Islamic_Golden_Age
 * Portal:Ivy_Queen
 * Portal:Japan_Airlines
 * Portal:Japanese_language
 * Portal:Kate_Ceberano
 * Portal:Labuan
 * Portal:LL_Cool_J
 * Portal:New_York_City_Police_Department
 * Portal:Penang
 * Portal:PepsiCo
 * Portal:Perak
 * Portal:Perlis
 * Portal:Politics_of_Ukraine
 * Portal:Quantum_mechanics
 * Portal:Salads
 * Portal:Selangor
 * Portal:Shaquille_O'Neal
 * Portal:South_Pole
 * Portal:Supermarket
 * Portal:Temperature
 * Portal:Terengganu
 * Portal:The_Fairly_OddParents
 * Portal:The_Incredibles
 * Portal:Vassar_College
 * Portal:Voivod_(band)
 * Portal:Yu-Gi-Oh!

Keep up the great work
Until next time,   &mdash; The Transhumanist   09:03, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

About the Sinan Pasa sijeric
There is not a single real info that this man was serbian. this page here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinan-pa%C5%A1a_Sijer%C4%8Di%C4%87

There are 2 articles from 2 serbian newspapers, and that is all.

Serbian newspaper lie a lot and mis spread information according to their nationalism.

In this case they are trying to overstate the importance of serbs in the ottoman empire and claiming all orthodox bosnians as serbs.

That is why those articles used as sources, must first of all prove that he had any serbian origins and then be used as sources, and that is why i removed them — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.73.141.172 (talk) 16:41, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Whilst that may or may not be true, if you fail to explain why you have removed content from an article, you must expect that other editors will assume you are simply vandalising or forcing some agenda of your own onto the article. The correct way is to discuss this on the article's talk page. But always leave an edit summary in future. Logged in users can even set their own Preferences so they are reminded before you publish your edits. Nick Moyes (talk) 16:50, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

Rocher de la Tournette
Best wishes to you for 2019, Nick and a long life to all who care! Now please have a look at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GentleDjinn#Rocher_de_la_Tournette_moved_to_draftspace GentleDjinn (talk) 09:20, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Happy New Year to you too. I'm pleased you made the article, though I think the other editor was fair in draftifying it through lack of any sources to verify it to their satisfaction at this point in time. This isnt a rejection of the topic per se - just a reasonable action for an unreferenced page by an editor with no knowledge of the subect. I might have done the same myself and - if I'm frank - I don't think you needed to have responded quite as sharply as you did. It was no attack on you or your knowledge. I did a quick check thismorning, both online and in my 1990s Alpine Club Mont Blanc guidebook, and can easily provide sources to make it ok to move back. You can leave that with me to do, if you wish, though I don't work quite as quickly as you do! I'll also check my French maps as I suspect the article ought to have the main title of Tournette or La Tournette, and a redirect from Rochers de la Tournette. I'm with the family at the moment, and editing on a tiny mobile, so checking stuff isn't easy right now. I don't want to patronise you by suggesting you work in your sandbox first, but do feel free to send me any links you'd like input on. I do do New Page Reviewing anyway, so am happy to offer any observations. You might have spotted that I rushed to post my unfinished draft on the Géant Glacier. It still needs an infobox and a few bits adding, but I'm still cross with myself that all my work on my Gouter Hut draft was for nothing bcause you took the welcome inititative to actually post something yourself. Couldnt have that happen a second time in as many days! Very best wishes for the New Year, and I'm excited to see what other articles you're going to produce. Nick Moyes (talk) 15:15, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
 * PS I've also long thought the 'top of MB' page was rather pointless under that name. Maybe in due course a merge might be justified. Nick Moyes (talk) 15:18, 1 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your kind reaction and reencouragement. First, I was annoyed because it was not unreferenced (if two planes have hit the rock, and there are books and movies mentioned about those crash disasters and even reports about dead bodies of the victims now emerging from the ice, I would not call that unreferenced). Second, sources are certainly needed when the existence of something is doubted or disputed, but demanding them when that is not the case seems rather senseless pedantry to me, with destructive consequences: that leads to a rather absurd abyss, finally ending with questioning the reality of existence itself, and the use and validity and legitimation of rules... (probably good for a theoretical philosophical lemma in Wikipedia but not for the whole). But you suggest a merge of Top of the Mont Blanc with Rocher de la Tournette? GentleDjinn (talk) 08:48, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
 * You're very welcome, though I cannot agree with what you've just said. This version was the one before it was draftified for not being verifiable. In my view that's unreferenced. I'm sure you realise that wikilinks to other articles don't suffice for verifiability (except in Lists), nor would it be fair on users to expect them to have to wade through from one Wikipedia article to another in order to eventually find a WP:RS which proves something actually exists. That absolutely must be visible on the page itself, so I am a little surprised to hear you say that.  It's a simple task to copy a reference from one article to another, or to link to an online map to show that a feature exists.  Anyway,  that said,  regarding merging the Top of the Mont Blanc page with Rocher de la Tournette article, yes, I would consider it at some point in the future, but it would also need definite independent references to show that that rock is assumed/alleged/proven/stated to have come from there before it would be acceptable. It certainly wouldn't be OK to merge it based on one's personal guess (or WP:OR) that that was where the rock sample came from (even though I cannot imagine it coming from anywhere else. As there has never been any rocks accessible on the summit of MB in a historical timescale, it's really not 'the top', is it? As far as I can remember, the page just seemed to be a literal translation of a museum or exhibit label. Anyway, let's leave discussion on that that for another time shall we? BTW do  you have a source that states what you added here? I don't disagree with your conclusion, but it is stated rather too strongly in my opinion (maybe the word 'likely to have been collected from' would have been more appropriate?) but even the archived refs to the Teyler Museum don't seem to function any more, so it's hard to check back. Best wishes. Nick Moyes (talk) 17:26, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

So, what is the source for the Teyler(s) Museum being a museum in Haarlem, and for Haarlem being the capital of North Holland? Or to restart in alphabetical order: what is the source then for Abu Dhabi being the capital of the United Arab Emirates? (and so on with all capital cities of the world form A to Z mentioned in the Wikipedia...) 14:00, 6 January 2019 (UTC)~
 * I'm not sure why that reply comes across as a bit belligerent towards me, but I'm surprised you're challenging my simple observation that you did need to have cited statements on unusual topics like the plane crashes in an otherwise unreferenced new article. I thought we were on the same page, as it were, regarding Alps articles. You might like to read: You don't need to cite that the sky is blue. Anyway, I did add the required references for you, so that's sorted, isn't it? Nick Moyes (talk) 23:32, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, thanks indeed for the references! The pages on the crashes of the Air India Flight 101 and Air India Flight 245 exist since 2007 and 2009. It was sufficient to include links to those pages, imho. Both You don't need to cite that the sky is blue and You do need to cite that the sky is blue offer food for thought as well. But thanks again. By the way, I see in many sources the plural Rochers de la Tournette, e.d. GentleDjinn (talk) 07:46, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
 * ok, thanks. Which references use the plural? Ignore non-mountain or geographically local literature and I rarely see the plural form; the remainder seem likely to be akin to an unfamiliar source wrongly referring to the 'Rocks' of Gibraltar. I would not wish to see it/they used throughout as that would only serve to confuse the reader. I would like to see fuller references, though, rather than bare urls. I think quality content deserves quality-formatted references, don't you? Cheers,Nick Moyes (talk) 10:22, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

GentleDjinn (talk) 12:44, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
 * https://www.vienormali.it/montagna/cima_scheda.asp?cod=1323
 * https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/tag/rochers-de-la-tournette/

Nick, can you please help with the notes on the page about the Goûter Refuge? As you might have noticed already, I am quite clumsy with notes. Thanks. Cite error: The named reference Griffin1 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).GentleDjinn (talk) 14:30, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

Mail
Ritchie333 <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  21:58, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia:TheWikiWizard/February 2019 (Special Editon)
(PLEASE NOTE: THIS ISSUE WILL BE MAILED MANUALLY DUE TO THE SHEER LACK OF SIZE OF THIS NEWSPAPER. PLEASE SUBSCRIBE HERE TO RECIEVE THE NEWSLETTER. THANK YOU FOR READING THIS NOTICE.)

Hello, ! Here is the February 2019 (Special Edition) issue of TheWikiWizard. Hope you like this month's issue! If you'd like to discuss this issue, please go to this issue's talk page. Happy Reading! -- Thegooduser  Life Begins With a Smile :)  🍁 02:51, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
 * What's Hot! (Votes Needed! Happy Valentines and Chinese New Year!)
 * Articles (Tips and More!)
 * Editor's Notes (Saving TWW from Deletion.....)
 * Activity Page (Fun Activities)
 * Ads (Ads)

WikiProject Portals update #029, 13 Feb 2019
Where we are at:
 * Single-page portals: 4,704
 * Total portals:       5,705

The Ref desks survived the proposal to shut them down
You might be familiar with the Ref desks, by their link on every new portal. They are a place you can go to ask volunteers almost any knowledge-related question, and have been a feature of Wikipedia since August of 2005 (or perhaps earlier). They were linked to from portals in an effort to improve their visibility, and to provide a bridge from the encyclopedia proper to project space (the Wikipedia community).

Well, somebody proposed that we get rid of them, and the community decided that that was not going to happen. Thank you for defending the Ref desks!

Here's a link to the dramatic discussion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)/Indefinitely_semiprotecting_the_refdesk#Proposal_II:_Shut_down_the_Ref_Desks

The cleanup after sockpuppet Emoteplump continues...
The wake of disruption left by Emoteplump and the admins who reverted many (but not all) of his/her edits is still undergoing cleanup. We could use all the help we can get on this task...

Almost all of the speedy deleted portals have been rebuilt from scratch.

For the portals he/she restarted (many of which were done mistakenly, overwriting restarts and further development that had already been done), and/or tagged as the maintainer, see https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Emoteplump&oldid=881568794#Additional_Portals_under_my_watch

10,000 portals, here we come...
We're at 5,705 portals and counting.

New portals since issue #28

 * 1) Portal:Abitibi-Témiscamingue
 * 2) Portal:Ahold Delhaize
 * 3) Portal:AKB48
 * 4) Portal:Åland Islands
 * 5) Portal:Alaska Airlines
 * 6) Portal:Albanian Civil War
 * 7) Portal:Albertsons
 * 8) Portal:Alevism
 * 9) Portal:All in the Family
 * 10) Portal:Alternative metal
 * 11) Portal:Ambient music
 * 12) Portal:Ancient Near East mythology
 * 13) Portal:Ancient Roman religion
 * 14) Portal:Andrew Cuomo
 * 15) Portal:Anti-consumerism
 * 16) Portal:Antimatter
 * 17) Portal:Arameans
 * 18) Portal:Arianism
 * 19) Portal:Australian Crawl
 * 20) Portal:Bali
 * 21) Portal:Banten
 * 22) Portal:Bengkulu
 * 23) Portal:Black Lives Matter
 * 24) Portal:Bluegrass music
 * 25) Portal:Bonnie Tyler
 * 26) Portal:Breakbeat
 * 27) Portal:Calypso music
 * 28) Portal:Cambridgeshire
 * 29) Portal:Camila Cabello
 * 30) Portal:Capcom
 * 31) Portal:Capsicum
 * 32) Portal:Celtic music
 * 33) Portal:Central American music
 * 34) Portal:Central Java
 * 35) Portal:Central Kalimantan
 * 36) Portal:Central Sulawesi
 * 37) Portal:Chanel
 * 38) Portal:Cinema of Australia
 * 39) Portal:Cognitive psychology
 * 40) Portal:Communication studies
 * 41) Portal:Conservatism in the United States
 * 42) Portal:Cortina d'Ampezzo
 * 43) Portal:Cross-Strait relations
 * 44) Portal:Cryptozoology
 * 45) Portal:Danish folk music
 * 46) Portal:Disco
 * 47) Portal:Dyslexia
 * 48) Portal:East Java
 * 49) Portal:East Kalimantan
 * 50) Portal:East Nusa Tenggara
 * 51) Portal:Easy listening
 * 52) Portal:Ed Sheeran
 * 53) Portal:Ehime
 * 54) Portal:Electricity
 * 55) Portal:Electronica
 * 56) Portal:Electronic rock
 * 57) Portal:English folk music
 * 58) Portal:Environmental technology
 * 59) Portal:Experimental music
 * 60) Portal:Extreme metal
 * 61) Portal:Fall Out Boy
 * 62) Portal:Finnish Defence Forces
 * 63) Portal:Finnish folk music
 * 64) Portal:Football in Croatia
 * 65) Portal:Football in Jordan
 * 66) Portal:Funk
 * 67) Portal:Gamelan
 * 68) Portal:General Mills
 * 69) Portal:Germanic languages
 * 70) Portal:German language
 * 71) Portal:Government of Canada
 * 72) Portal:Government of Hong Kong
 * 73) Portal:Government of Indonesia
 * 74) Portal:Government of Ireland
 * 75) Portal:Government of Malaysia
 * 76) Portal:Government of Russia
 * 77) Portal:Government of Singapore
 * 78) Portal:Government of Spain
 * 79) Portal:Government of Thailand
 * 80) Portal:Grapes
 * 81) Portal:Green Party of the United States
 * 82) Portal:Grinspoon
 * 83) Portal:Gwen Stefani
 * 84) Portal:Hardcore punk
 * 85) Portal:Hardcore techno
 * 86) Portal:Haskell (programming language)
 * 87) Portal:History of art
 * 88) Portal:History of North America
 * 89) Portal:History of Thailand
 * 90) Portal:Hollywood
 * 91) Portal:Hotels
 * 92) Portal:House music
 * 93) Portal:Hungarian folk music
 * 94) Portal:Hunters & Collectors
 * 95) Portal:Hydrogen
 * 96) Portal:Icelandic folk music
 * 97) Portal:Indigenous music of North America
 * 98) Portal:Insomniac Games
 * 99) Portal:International field hockey
 * 100) Portal:International trade
 * 101) Portal:Iranian music
 * 102) Portal:Islamophobia
 * 103) Portal:Jambi
 * 104) Portal:Jet engines
 * 105) Portal:Jordin Sparks
 * 106) Portal:Julius Caesar
 * 107) Portal:Kannur
 * 108) Portal:Kansas City Spurs
 * 109) Portal:Kelly Rowland
 * 110) Portal:Kirby
 * 111) Portal:Kraft Heinz
 * 112) Portal:Krasnoyarsk Krai
 * 113) Portal:Kroger
 * 114) Portal:Kuala Lumpur
 * 115) Portal:Lampung
 * 116) Portal:Larry Kramer
 * 117) Portal:LeBron James
 * 118) Portal:Lehigh Valley
 * 119) Portal:Leicestershire
 * 120) Portal:Liège
 * 121) Portal:Liguria
 * 122) Portal:Los Angeles Aztecs
 * 123) Portal:Los Angeles Wolves
 * 124) Portal:Macedonian language
 * 125) Portal:Magnetism
 * 126) Portal:Maithripala Sirisena
 * 127) Portal:Maluku (province)
 * 128) Portal:Mangoes
 * 129) Portal:Marco Pierre White
 * 130) Portal:McLaren
 * 131) Portal:Menstrual cycle
 * 132) Portal:Metalcore
 * 133) Portal:Miami FC
 * 134) Portal:Microblogging
 * 135) Portal:Microtonal music
 * 136) Portal:Midnight Oil
 * 137) Portal:Minnesota Kicks
 * 138) Portal:Mission: Impossible
 * 139) Portal:Modernism (music)
 * 140) Portal:Moheener Ghoraguli
 * 141) Portal:Mondelez International
 * 142) Portal:Music genres
 * 143) Portal:Music of Bangladesh
 * 144) Portal:Music of India
 * 145) Portal:Music of Italy
 * 146) Portal:Music of Japan
 * 147) Portal:Music of Korea
 * 148) Portal:Music of Latin America
 * 149) Portal:Music of Micronesia
 * 150) Portal:Music of North Africa
 * 151) Portal:Music of Pakistan
 * 152) Portal:Music of Serbia
 * 153) Portal:Music of the Philippines
 * 154) Portal:Music of the United States
 * 155) Portal:Mutations
 * 156) Portal:National Rugby League
 * 157) Portal:Neoclassicism (music)
 * 158) Portal:Netball
 * 159) Portal:New York City Fire Department
 * 160) Portal:Nick Jr.
 * 161) Portal:Nobility
 * 162) Portal:Nordic countries
 * 163) Portal:North Africa
 * 164) Portal:North Kalimantan
 * 165) Portal:North Maluku
 * 166) Portal:North Pole
 * 167) Portal:North Queensland
 * 168) Portal:North Sulawesi
 * 169) Portal:North Sumatra
 * 170) Portal:Norwegian folk music
 * 171) Portal:Papua (province)
 * 172) Portal:Peaches
 * 173) Portal:Politics of Abkhazia
 * 174) Portal:Politics of Afghanistan
 * 175) Portal:Politics of Albania
 * 176) Portal:Politics of Algeria
 * 177) Portal:Politics of Andorra
 * 178) Portal:Politics of Angola
 * 179) Portal:Politics of Antigua and Barbuda
 * 180) Portal:Politics of Argentina
 * 181) Portal:Politics of Artsakh
 * 182) Portal:Politics of Bahrain
 * 183) Portal:Politics of Bangladesh
 * 184) Portal:Politics of Bavaria
 * 185) Portal:Politics of Belarus
 * 186) Portal:Politics of Belgium
 * 187) Portal:Politics of Belize
 * 188) Portal:Politics of Benin
 * 189) Portal:Politics of Bhutan
 * 190) Portal:Politics of Bosnia and Herzegovina
 * 191) Portal:Politics of Botswana
 * 192) Portal:Politics of Brazil
 * 193) Portal:Politics of Brunei
 * 194) Portal:Politics of Bulgaria
 * 195) Portal:Politics of Burkina Faso
 * 196) Portal:Politics of Burundi
 * 197) Portal:Politics of Cambodia
 * 198) Portal:Politics of Cameroon
 * 199) Portal:Politics of China
 * 200) Portal:Politics of São Tomé and Príncipe
 * 201) Portal:Politics of South Sudan
 * 202) Portal:Politics of Sudan
 * 203) Portal:Politics of Tanzania
 * 204) Portal:Politics of the Republic of the Congo
 * 205) Portal:Politics of Togo
 * 206) Portal:Politics of Tunisia
 * 207) Portal:Politics of Uganda
 * 208) Portal:Pop rock
 * 209) Portal:Rap rock
 * 210) Portal:Ras Al Khaimah
 * 211) Portal:Riau
 * 212) Portal:Riau Islands
 * 213) Portal:Ricky Martin
 * 214) Portal:Royal Canadian Air Force
 * 215) Portal:Rutland
 * 216) Portal:Saxophones
 * 217) Portal:Semiotics
 * 218) Portal:Ska
 * 219) Portal:Soca music
 * 220) Portal:Soul music
 * 221) Portal:Sound sculptures
 * 222) Portal:Southeast Sulawesi
 * 223) Portal:South Kalimantan
 * 224) Portal:South Sulawesi
 * 225) Portal:South Sumatra
 * 226) Portal:Space: 1999
 * 227) Portal:Special Region of Yogyakarta
 * 228) Portal:Swedish folk music
 * 229) Portal:Tamil language
 * 230) Portal:Techno
 * 231) Portal:Terry Brooks
 * 232) Portal:The Living End
 * 233) Portal:Thrissur
 * 234) Portal:Trance music
 * 235) Portal:Tyrant flycatchers
 * 236) Portal:Veterinary medicine
 * 237) Portal:Wayanad
 * 238) Portal:Welsh folk music
 * 239) Portal:West Champaran district
 * 240) Portal:Western dress codes
 * 241) Portal:West Flanders
 * 242) Portal:West Java
 * 243) Portal:West Kalimantan
 * 244) Portal:West Nusa Tenggara
 * 245) Portal:West Papua (province)
 * 246) Portal:West Sulawesi
 * 247) Portal:West Sumatra
 * 248) Portal:Wildlife of India
 * 249) Portal:Wildlife of Nepal
 * 250) Portal:Windows 10
 * 251) Portal:Winter War
 * 252) Portal:Woodpeckers
 * 253) Portal:Worcestershire
 * 254) Portal:World economy
 * 255) Portal:World Ocean
 * 256) Portal:World Rally Championship
 * 257) Portal:World views
 * 258) Portal:XTC
 * 259) Portal:Yahoo!
 * 260) Portal:Yoruba people
 * 261) Portal:You Am I
 * 262) Portal:Young Wizards
 * 263) Portal:Yugoslavs

Prior to 2018, for the previous 14 years, portal creation was at about 80 portals per year on average. We did over 3 times that in just the past 9 days. At this rate, we'll hit the 10,000 portal mark in 5 months. But, I'm sure we can do it sooner than that.

What's next for portal pages?
There are 5 drives for portal development:
 * 1) Create new portals
 * 2) Expand existing portals, such as with new sections like Recognized content
 * 3) Convert or restart old-style portals into automated single-page portals
 * 4) Link to new portals from the encyclopedia
 * 5) Pageless portals

Let's take a closer look at these...

1: Creating new portals
Portal creation, for subjects that happen to have the necessary support structures already in place, is down to about a minute per portal. The creation part, which is automated, takes about 10 seconds. The other 50 seconds is taken up by manual activities, such as finding candidate subjects, inspecting generated portals, and selecting the portal creation template to be used according to the resources available. Tools are under development to automate these activities as much as possible, to pare portal creation time down even more. Ten seconds each is the goal.

Eventually, we are going to run out of navigation templates to base portals off of. Though there are still thousands to go. But, when they do run out, we'll need an easy way to create more. A nav footer creation script.

Meanwhile, other resources are being explored and developed, such as categories, and methods to harvest the links they contain.

2: Expanding existing portals
The portal collection is growing, not only by the addition of new portals, but by further developing the ones we already have, by...
 * Improving and/or adding search parameters to better power the Did you know and In the news sections.
 * Adding more selected content sections, like Selected biographies.
 * Adding and maintaining Recognized content sections, via JL-Bot.
 * Adding pictures to the image slideshow.
 * Adding panoramic pics.
 * Categorizing portals.

More features will be added as we dream them up and design them. So, don't be shy, make a wish.

3: Converting old portals
By far the hardest and most time-consuming task we have been working on is updating the old portals, the very reason we revamped this WikiProject in the first place.

There are two approaches here:
 * A) Restart a portal from scratch, using our automated tools. For basic no-frills portals, that works find. But, for more elaborate portals, as that tends to lose content and features, the following approach is being tried...
 * B) Upgrade a portal section by section, so little to nothing is lost in the process.

4: Linking to new portals
Or "portal deorphanization"...

Dreamy Jazz Bot is purring along.

And a tool in the form of a script is under development for linking to portals at the time they are created, or shortly thereafter.

5...
See below...

New WikiProject for the post-saved-portal phase of operations...
Saved portals, are portals with a saved page.

What is the next stage in the evolutionary progression?

Quantum portals.

What are quantum portals?

Portals that come into existence when you click on the portal button, and which disappear when you leave the page.

Or, as Pbsouthwood put it:

...portals that exist only as a probability function (algorithm) until you collapse the wave form by observing through the portal button (run the script), and disappear again after use...

Introducing...

WikiProject Quantum portals (see it's talk page).

Keep on keepin' on
...'til next time,   &mdash; The Transhumanist   10:24, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Notifications and subpages
Upon discovering the existence of this RfC, I thought you'd be interested in knowing of it. Cheers--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 10:09, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks, . I've worked through all the Phabricator history for this and related tasks, and found that T5234 was assigned to a developer in 2017, but that they ceased activity shortly afterwards, and nothing further was done. I don't fully understand how Phabricator operates, but I appear to have kick-started it a bit with a comment made under my old username. (see https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T5234). I'm not quite sure what 'Tokens' actually do by way of showing support, but have placed one on the task just in case. Maybe you might consider doing likewise? Thank you for highlighting this thread. Nick Moyes (talk) 10:13, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

DYK nomination for Brenva Glacier
Hello, I completed a review at Template:Did you know nominations/Brenva Glacier, and noted a couple minor questions. Please reply there when you are able. Cheers. Flibirigit (talk) 20:46, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

I better get off Wikipedia
...Otherwise I will need to do my Homework in the Morning, Like I always Do because I can't get off Wikipedia.... lol -- Thegooduser  Life Begins With a Smile :)  🍁 03:49, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I might even need to downgrade to Windows 7 In order to use Huggle, Haven't been as much addicted on Wikipedia when Huggle Broke. -- Thegooduser  Life Begins With a Smile :)  🍁 03:51, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Hey, fellow addict. I'm just relieved to hear you are actually doing any homework! Genuinely. how do you - and especially your teachers - feel you're doing in school right now? You know how important these things are to your future, and I don't want to think you've messed things up by overdoing it here. My 16yr old daughter has been working very hsrd for her first set of national exams coming up in May. Luckily she just takes Wikipedia for granted, and doesn't spend all her spare time on it. I really want to hear you're doing good in school, too. As for Huggle, I've still not got into using it properly. You take care - I'm so impressed by your commitment here - just make sure you commit to the important things in the real world, too. Nick Moyes (talk) 08:12, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I am just lucky that my two sons are too old for Wikipedia addiction, and my granddaughter is way too young. It is grandpa over there, laying in a damp ditch, mumbling something about "the sum of all human knowledge". <b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328  Let's discuss it  08:22, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
 * What a mental image that conjures up! Nick Moyes (talk)

Tech News: 2019-09
<section begin="technews-2019-W09"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * There is a new version of the iOS Wikipedia app. It has for example syntax highlighting and new toolbars to make it easier to write wikitext. It also has night mode, a find-on-page function and other things. You can give feedback and suggestions.

Changes later this week
 * When you look at your watchlist or the recent changes page you can use the new filters for edit review. There you can choose tags to filter different edits. Empty tags will no longer be shown.
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 26 February. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 27 February. It will be on all wikis from 28 February (calendar).

Meetings
 * Octicons-sync.svg Octicons-tools.svg You can join the technical advice meeting on IRC. During the meeting, volunteer developers can ask for advice. The meeting will be on 27 February at 16:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Future changes
 * The Wikipedia app for Android will invite users to add Wikidata descriptions to Wikidata objects that have Wikipedia articles but no Wikidata descriptions. It will only invite users who have added a number of Wikidata descriptions in the app without being reverted. This is to avoid spam and bad edits. You can read more and leave feedback.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2019-W09"/> 21:16, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Jayscott warned
Jayscott has been warned about having more than one account User:Jayscott478 and as of today User:Jayscott253 and to use only one account going forward. I am in no way convinced that this person intends to be a useful editor versus being a Teahouse gadfly and a creator of incomplete draft articles about obscure "Loop" roads in Texas. Trying to be patient. David notMD (talk) 19:23, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah - me too. One mainspace edit and 50 Teahouse edits. Hadn't realised there were multiple accounts, thoguh. As an aside, I struggled to work out how the circular wikilinks back to the same article have been created - via  it seems. But at a quick glance I can't see how that template is creating these circular links to the redirect and thence back to List of state highway loops in Texas. An example would be the blue-linked Loop 21. It's really bugging me. Nick Moyes (talk) 19:37, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Arggh! I did not know how many Loops actually have real articles. People in Texas with too much time on their hands? David notMD (talk) 19:45, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Abelmoschus Esculentus' User Scripts
Dear all. Recently, our community lost a dedicated user,. Among their projects were a number of user scripts that they left behind. I (DannyS712) have copied the scripts, and have taken over maintaining them. You currently import one or more of Abelmoschus Esculentus' scripts, and I thought that you might want to import a maintained version. Links to each script are provided below.

If you have any questions, please reach out and talk to me. --DannyS712 (talk) 00:30, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Windermere Boys
Thanks for finding some references for this. The Popular culture section of Windermere is the wrong place for it though, given that it is a real bit of history and not just a film or book. It would probably be better in the History section of Troutbeck Bridge, which is where they were moved to, if you wanted to move it across? --▲RedScrees (talk) 13:15, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Hi . Yes, I tend to agree with you - not only the wrong section, but also the wrong article. I only enhanced the edit when I saw the entry at Recent Changes. I nearly deleted it as a poor attempt at vandalism, but decided to investigate and enhance it as I know and love the Lake District. I agree that a fuller entry in the Troutbeck page might be more appropriate, though I think very brief mention in Windermere might be appropriate. i.e. something along the lines of: "The lake gave its name to a group of boys... who settled at Troutbeck Bridge near Windermere in 1945". I would be very pleased if you would make those changes, rather than me. (rather busy at the moment) Thanks, Nick Moyes (talk) 17:01, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Hi, I've made the suggested edits to both articles. They could still be improved so feel free to tweak them as necessary. --▲RedScrees (talk) 14:24, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

HJ Martin
Hello, Nick. I am a little confused by the note you added to the HJ Martin page. I don't have any sort of connection to the company (the people, geographically, the industry, etc). I originally created this page on a whim because a friend of the owner knew I was a wiki editor. I haven't seen or really had contact with that person shortly after I created this page. So any connection I have with this company is tenuous at best -- not a customer, not an employee, zero contact, etc.)

With your permission, I'd like to remove the note. The friend recently contacted me and basically said, "Hey, remember that page you created, it's missing the periods..." and then I spent a day revisiting the project. That's about it.

Thanks so much! I actually really do enjoy doing this and probably should do more as I am now REALLY rusty at it.

Laurie CdbgLaurie (talk) 20:38, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Hi,, thanks for reaching out to me - it is appreciated. I'm really sorry but, no, you should not remove the COI notice from either article that you have worked on. Not only does your editing pattern suggest to me that you are here only to promote one or two closely related topics, but this recent post at the Teahouse clearly indicates to me that you have a Conflict of Interest in editing the HJ Martin and Son and Edward N. Martin articles. You state on your userpage that you are a professional writer, so not only are you obligated to declare any conflict of interest under our WP:COI guidelines, but also if you have received any remuneration for helping your 'friend' - please see WP:PAID for those requirements. Having a COI isn't a barrier to editing (I have declared some of my own COIs on my userpage), but openness and honesty is a requirement here. I invite you to address that. To be frank, I was half minded to put the page about HJ Martin and Son up for an WP:AFD discussion on the grounds of not meeting WP:NCORP, but you had done such a good job in adding so many insider sources that, right now, I can't be bothered to go through them all to assess notability. Maybe I'll do that later. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 23:38, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi, Nick. Thanks for your explanation. And you are correct in that my bio used to say that. To be honest, I completely forgot about it and if you look at the date, it's been sitting that way since I first completed it. I updated yesterday. But it is true, I don't have a conflict of interest in that I have never written for that company or its owner, written about it in any capacity for publication or compensation anywhere, etc. The whole thing initially came about as a fluke and I just kept updating it because it existed.

With the legit journalism industry employment opportunities rapidly disappearing and/or literally paying wages lower than a Starbucks barista, I don't really do much writing or get paid for it at all (many of the former publications I wrote for have gone out of business and my career is now a project here or there every few months, and I am self-employed in a completely different capacity now). This whole thing truly is a a favor for a friend, one that I used to work with briefly many years ago that I see maybe every few years when he passes through the city I live in. When we had worked together, I had mentioned that I was a wikieditor. That's it. No big coverup or conspiracy. I have no reason to be untruthful on an anonymous platform. I had viewed what I do here, albeit not that frequently, as something to use my underutilized skills/training as a writer.

But anyway, it's all a learning experience here for me and I appreciate you taking the time to explain all this. If I could ask you a question, do you recommend I should declare my essentially former career on my userpage?

Thanks so much.

Laurie CdbgLaurie (talk) 13:14, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Answering last question first, I'd say it's up to you. We don't require people to say what they did or who they worked for. If you feel it would help to keep things trasnsparent, then keep something in about it. I would, but others don't. The problem I have is that your explanation still doesn't appear to ring true through your editing history, which shows no past evidence of being a Wikipedia editor until you took up the creation of two closely related articles for, as you say, 'a friend', and presumably also uploaded this photo for them -or maybe of them- which you took. Now therein lies the problem; most editors would find it unusual that a friend totally unconnected with a company or person would ask you to write about them in such detail, and to the exclusion of all else over the years. So even if a friend did ask you to write about them or their company, that would still be appropriate to declare on your user page or, better still, on the articles' talk pages. It's nothing to be ashamed about, and only ensures transparency. Hope this helps ( I don't mean my tone to come over as unduly antagonistic - I'm just trying to give a neutral assessment of how I and other editors see things here.)Nick Moyes (talk) 14:02, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

DYK for Brenva Glacier
&mdash; Amakuru (talk) 12:01, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Can I borrow this ...
for the next Signpost? -

Probably I'd put it under Humour.

Smallbones( smalltalk ) 04:17, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Sensible redirect.   davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  04:29, 9 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Feel free! For the last two of three years I've posted it on the Teahouse every 24th December. Nick Moyes (talk) 10:04, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
 * OOps - I've realised that there's a slightly better, and more up-to-date version here that you might prefer to use. Nick Moyes (talk) 15:55, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Perfect, just perfect! Smallbones( smalltalk ) 16:58, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and created a proper redirect, . Consider moving the page over the redirect.  davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  17:07, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Remember?
Do you remember this i have a gut feeling he’s back. I’d be opening an SPI once I possess cogent evidence. Just thought to remind you. Celestina007 (talk) 20:35, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
 * oh, yes I do, now you've reminded me. I have confidence in your blood-hound skills to root them out. (Should you ever wish to email me off wiki on this, or related matters, do feel free.) Nick Moyes (talk) 22:28, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, Nick!
… for taking the time to set my rudder straight so I can be a good Wikipedia editor. As you suggested, I have begun redoing my user page, and I’m trying to use some good pages as templates for the sandbox work you saw, and for further editing/creation. Also, thanks a bunch for the direct to loading images correctly. My inexperience showed on that one. I will work hard to be more clear, as well, since as a storyteller I tend to drift into the rabbit hole. On another note, I am living on Crete in Greece, and I am sure that, with your and the community’s help, I can contribute many stunning details about the island. The stub Galatas Palace, for instance, is a subject that I have special knowledge and/or access to. Please, if you and the other wonderful Wikipedians can assist, there are dozens of such places that would fill in this fantastic library. Philbutler (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 09:16, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, . Thanks for posting, though I had to move your comment down to the bottom of the page, which is our talk page convention here for the latest additions. Oh, and don't forget to sign each post with four keyboard tildes, so that a date/timestamp is automatically added, as well as your username. May I make a few other positively critical feedback suggestions for you?
 * I still feel your 'biography' is too long for a Wikipedia Userpage. If you could trim it down by 50% to the bare basics, that would be wise. The purpose of a userpage is just to say a few words about one's own background and rationale for editing Wikipedia, either now or in the future. You can also use it to maintain notes and helpful links to guidance pages and favourite resources here.
 * But thanks for turning the tense around. You've clearly got a lot of background in the IT world, so it'll really only be the Wikipedia intricacies that you'll be coming to terms with.


 * On Agia Pelagia, for example, I don't think your additions of images was that necessary. We tend to discourage WP:GALLERIES in articles, linking instead via a Wikimedia Commons logo to show more categorized material exists elsewhere (see . I feel one of your images virtually duplicates the first image, whilst that of sea and bougainvillea doesn't add anything encylopaedic at all. So I'd suggest removing those. The trick is to ignore pretty images in articles, but to go for informative ones where words alone don't do it.
 * On Galatas Palace, I've removed the phrase 'discovered recently' because the date of discovery was clearly stated, so it needed no qualification. If you need help adding inline citations, there's a simply guide at WP:REFBEGIN, and I also wrote my own at WP:ERB. You choose which to use!
 * Of course, if you need more personal help, feel free to send a couple of air tickets. We are really missing Crete - our most favoured travel destination, both before and after we had children. One of my favourite solo excursions was to get the 7am bus from Rethymnon to the tiny village of Fourfouras, and then climb up Psiloritis for an overnight bivouac near the little summit chapel, and then to take the rarely-travelled northwest mountain ridgeline, finally dropping down past Arkady monastery (hitching the  last leg, if possible) to return tired but fulfilled, ready for a swim and a beer the following evening. (I'm not sure my knees would be up to the 40km trek now, though!) Nick Moyes (talk) 11:18, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

What an amazing world we live in, and small as they tell us too! Again, thank you for the super helpful suggestions. I have begun my redux already by deleting the Agia Pelagia ones.

Since I am the proverbial poor church mouse, I can only send tickets when I win the Greece lottery here. However, if I can get you to wear a GoPRO I am sure the rest of you and your wife's trip will be courtesy Cretan Filoxenia, which I know you are familiar with. Why, I already have your Psiloritis basecamp picked out. One of our Cretan brothers has a place overlooking Anogeia that is perfect!

On account of my bum ticker, I cannot venture into Ha Gorge and the hundreds of other wondrous places. We write a lot about the Cretans, and the travel and archaeological treasures here. So, you are video test pilot would be a perfect solution! Please do, come back to Minoan land at your earliest convenience! Philbutler (talk) 13:36, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Mail Notice
Celestina007 (talk) 15:53, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Hello
Hello Nick,

I'm excited to write and edit more articles on Wikipedia by following your steps — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rahulpatelfan (talk • contribs) 17:38, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
 * OK - good luck. Bear in mind that creating a new article about someone from scratch is the hardest task anyone can do here. Ensuring you can find sources to meet our WP:NBIO critieria is critical. You should keep the books he's written into a 'Publications' section (with authors title, year and publisher), and not include a link to Amazon (which comes over as advertising). Nick Moyes (talk) 12:08, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

Thank you :)
Appreciate your response on my question found at the Teahouse. It was really helpful. Have a nice day. HotTomatoe (talk) 10:28, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * I would also like to thank you so much for your work at the Teahouse. This barnstar is well deserved!! :-) Interstellarity (talk) 18:13, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Happy holidays
This year, many people had COVID to fear, The holidays are getting near, One thing that will be clear, We will still have holiday cheer, Happy holidays and happy new year!! From Interstellarity (talk) 13:49, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Is this worthy of revdeletion?
It appears to include a slur, which is a valid reason for rev deletion, but the example page says normal profanity is not a valid reason for rev deletion. I'm unsure how to proceed. Scorpions13256 (talk) 15:12, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello . This is a question that would be better to send an email to Nick about. It could trigger the Streisand effect which means that other people would look at it before it gets deleted to see the contents. I will let Nick decide whether the content is worthy of revdel. I'm just giving you an FYI. Interstellarity (talk) 15:16, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think that was a misogynistic and grossly offensive remark against a woman, and I have hidden it from view and have blocked the IP editor for a period of two weeks. Thank you for letting me know. Nick Moyes (talk) 15:19, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Interstellarity, Sorry about that. He already deleted the revision. I only asked him because I saw that he was active. Regardless, I will do this by email from now on or by IRC or Discord. Thank you for taking the time to explain things to me. Nick, thank you for your help. Sorry about the slow response everybody. I had to deal with an edit conflict. Scorpions13256 (talk) 15:21, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I'll just add that I'm not too bothered about being openly contacted about purely offensive comments, but I do advise not highlighting edits publicly where personally identifiable information (phone nos, emails, addresses, birth dates etc) have been revealed. Then its a case of either finding an active admin and emailing them privately (and hoping they see it quickly), or contacting the central email address given at WP:REVDEL which is more likely to be acted upon rapidly. Nick Moyes (talk) 15:24, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

RD vandalism
Hello, I stumbled upon some material here that could possibly be RD'd under WP:RD2. I'm only bringing it here because it contains no personal information (I read the above section), and that I don't use wiki email or IRC. Have a good day! B732 (talk) 19:00, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much, . I've blocked the IP, but will let the edit stand as it's close (but probably not quite there) to being directly offensive to individuals - more the childish rambling of some kid with a keyboard in this instance, I'd guess. Cheers

New biography.... is this person notable?
For the first time in my 4.5 year WP career, I wish to write “my first article”, about a “zoologist, Antarctic and marine mammal specialist, author and ecologist” who died in 1994. Previous Teahouse comments said that we could ask Senior Editors about notability, so I am requesting your opinion. Here is my very rough draft: Draft: Nigel Bonner. The lede, and first two sections are somewhat fleshed-out, and the rest has rough notes. Please note that I have refs/sources in two places, as I have not yet added some of them to the statements they support.

Is it worth my time to complete this? I think I can gain access to the paywalled Cambridge obituary source, which may provide even more info. Perhaps between Bonner’s notability as an author, and a scientist, I can cite enough information to satisfy WP’s notability requirements. At this point, WP has four articles that refer to him: Bonner Beach, Bonner Lab at Rothera Research Station, and the South Georgia Museum, where a room is dedicated in his honor. He is also mentioned in Gerald Bonner, which is where I got the idea for the article. Thanks for your consideration!  Tribe of Tiger <sup style="font-family:Segoe print;color:#B22222">Let's Purrfect!  01:15, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi,, that looks a really interesting page (and right up my sleeve). Yes, I think it would very definitely meet WP:NACADEMIC. I'd ensure the key notability elements were included in the lead - especially Polar Medal. I'd suggest creating a 'bare bones' submission, rather than putting your heart and soul into it and then finding someone reviews it and declines it, asking for more sources. So only include the bits you can be easily verified. That said, I'd be OK seeing it go straight into mainspace once complete. But at an AfD discussion, I'd be saying their contribution to science, plus their polar medal and the geographical features named after them were wholly sufficient to meet our notability criteria. I would say that this person's article does have the potential for a WP:DYK slot, if you're interested to go for that, too. It's the kind of thing I might even suggest you could email a request to the BAS to ask if they have a photograph of Bonner that they would be willing to release under an appropriate Creative Commons licence for you/us to use in the article. Linking to a draft/work in progress or to a brand new article would demonstrate the value of their participation. Cheers,  Nick Moyes (talk) 10:17, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much for this encouraging and detailed reply. I shall follow your advice and move forward. This is where your background knowledge of “this type of subject” is helpful. The Polar Medal sounded quite wonderful to me, but I wasn’t’ sure if it would assist notability. I will add to the lede Asap!


 * “So only include the bits you can be easily verified.” That’s easy, in this case, as the entire draft is based on my online research for sources. I regret that I cannot access a library to look for print sources, (Covid) but it has been great fun, sleuthing online! I started with his name, and one ref, both of which were in Gerald Bonner, went from there. It was like a National Geographic adventure, for a house-bound person! I will both follow and consider your various excellent suggestions and report back to you (if I may) when I think the article is “ready”. Again, thanks for the confirmation and encouragement. Regards,  Tribe of Tiger <sup style="font-family:Segoe print;color:#B22222">Let's Purrfect!  21:34, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, feel free. I am very interested. One of my adoptees here on Wikipedia is an Antarctic geologist and retired professor - and he has one or two bits of Antarctica named after him (see here). I interviewed at BAS many years ago for a summer posting in Antarctica, field-guiding scientists (but sadly didn't get through) - and mammalogy is one of my many interests, and I also enjoy the online search for biographical information. So I'd be happy to help you in any way I can. Cheers, Nick Moyes (talk) 22:06, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
 * My frame of reference is limited, but my observation/experience has been that true scientists and academics are quite amenable to our WP concepts of proper references, (and COI) and comply with a degree of enthusiasm. My possibly “romantic” view is that they search for truth/knowledge, versus fame and glory. I am happy that you adopted BrucePL as a worthy editor. (I shall read, with pleasure!) We are very fortunate to have you here on WP, as you know the field of life science. I seem to remember something you posted a few years ago, about setting up cameras to observe birds (peregrines?) at your workplace. I am sorry that you did not get through BAS, I expect that this was a highly competitive posting. At any rate, this “older person” in the US thinks that your endeavors are fascinating, and has read your “About Me” user page section, with great admiration and respect! Mountains climbed, nearly one million plant records...then I saw that you had worked for the CIA! Fortunately, I clicked on the link, as I was thinking that you were also working in some sort of espionage, as in the US CIA. Spy peregrines, launched from mountain tops!
 * Seriously, though, regarding Nigel Bonner, is this important/worthy that he was “ President of the Mammal Society for a unique two terms“? I will include this in the article, but wanted to inquire. Thanks for your reply above. Sincerely,  Tribe of Tiger <sup style="font-family:Segoe print;color:#B22222">Let's Purrfect!  01:08, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for those very kind words. Whilst Bonner's role as President of the MammSoc doesn't infer notabilty in itself, it certainly does add to the encyclopaedic value of the article. However, I might not deem it necessary to mention the uniqueness of two terms in office, just the years in which he served. It's likely that whatever link you cite will lead to that level of information, should someone need it. (I actually knew one of his successors, Derek Yalden, through my work in biological recording - a great mammalogist and botanist, too. I'm really pleased you chose this person to be the subject of your first article! Nick Moyes (talk) 10:47, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the very helpful explanations and good advice. I am moving forward and will let you know when I have the article in better shape. I just ordered a book, which I think/hope will help with notability, Antarctic Oasis: Under the Spell of South Georgia, by Tim and Pauline Carr, who assisted with the building of the South Georgia Museum. This should provide some post-retirement information, as well as personal enjoyment. I like to think that Nigel Bonner would be pleased that his life story has fostered friendly connections. Best,  Tribe of Tiger  <sup style="font-family:Segoe print;color:#B22222">Let's Purrfect!  00:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

I am sure it is a bit silly, but you are the only person I "know" who has possibly been concerned about iceberg A68 beaching itself on South Georgia Island, and disrupting the tenuous and valuable food chain that supports marine mammals. I have been watching the news, with dread, for several weeks. But, now it seems that South Georgia will be spared, and I am so relieved. Fingers crossed that the ocean currents will flow in a favorable way for the marine mammals. Who would think that an older woman in NC, USA, would be so concerned about a far distant island? WP has broadened my horizons, and provided the opportunity to read and learn, despite my permanent lockdown, until the vaccine takes hold.

Now, onto WP topics. A WP friend emailed me a copy of the paywalled Cambridge obituary source, entitled as Polar Profile. I printed it, and it consists of four, double-columned pages! Oh joy! I plan to do more on the draft, after the New Year and will look into obtaining an image of this intelligent and worthy scientist. Will keep you posted. Thanks so much for your encouragement and support, it has meant a great deal to me. Best wishes to you and yours, as we bid a hearty farewell to 2020! Take care of yourself,  Tribe of Tiger <sup style="font-family:Segoe print;color:#B22222">Let's Purrfect!  06:33, 24 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Yes - that was good news, indeed. I'm glad you got a copy of the Cambridge obituary, so good luck carrying on with his biography in the New Year. I'm so pleased you've found comfort and joy in editing Wikipedia, and do shout if you need any input from me. Meanwhile, here's a little festive poem for you on this Christmas Eve. See: WP:TWAS Best wishes! Nick Moyes (talk) 15:12, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Yo Ho Ho
<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:blue; background-color:AliceBlue; border-width:1px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">

Donner60 (talk) is wishing a foaming mug of Seasons Greetings! Whether you celebrate your hemisphere's Solstice or Christmas, Diwali, Hogmanay, Hanukkah, Lenaia, Festivus or even the Saturnalia, this is a special time of year for almost everyone!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding to your friends' talk pages.

The Night Before Wikimas
Thanks again for making this and publicizing it every year. I put some code on Wikipedia talk:The Night Before Wikimas people can crib from to transclude an abbreviated version on their own talk page. It's not efficient but it gets the job done without modifying the original. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs) 🎄  03:41, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Happy New Year Nick Moyes!
<div style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em; font-family: Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif;float:right;margin-bottom:20px;margin-right:10px">Happy New Year! Hello Nick Moyes: Thanks for all of your contributions to improve the encyclopedia for Wikipedia's readers, and have a happy and enjoyable New Year! Cheers, Rahulpatelfan (talk) 07:15, 31 December 2020 (UTC) Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks (static)}} to user talk pages with a friendly message.

Happy New Year!

 * Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Happy New Year elves}} to send this message

Globally locking Ylevental
Hi Nick Moyes! For a while now, I'm considering to report Ylevental to SRG for cross-wiki abuse (in English and Chinese Wikipedia). Is this action an appropriate move for him? To be frank I'm not sure, that's why I asked you here.  Mario Jump  83!  14:03, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Hello . You question has thrown me as I was under the impression that had been indefinitely blocked since summer 2020, and had subsequently sought help to block certain IP addresses to prevent him being tempted back into editing whilst blocked. I had contact with WMF and ArbCom over welfare concerns I had for him, but wasn't aware there was any subsequent on-wiki activity. Nor is any shown here on any other language wikis. Could you explain what, if any, current concerns you have please? If there are other accounts that are active, it might be best if you raised them at WP:SPI. Does that make sense, or am I missing something significant? Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 14:13, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
 * My concern is that he is blocked in both English (I know what happened) and Chinese Wikipedia (block reason is "確認為傀儡或真人傀儡：见英文维基" which means Ylevental has done some sockpuppetry and meatpuppetry). From what I remember for most SRG requests, if the user was blocked in multiple projects (or obvious abuse in other WikiProject), then they are eligible for global lock.  Mario Jump  83!  16:03, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
 * This is not my area of expertise (so I could be missing some subtlety issue), but my view would that if the blocked editor is no longer active, there's little value in expending extra administrative effort to globally lock them until such time as problems might arise. I'm happy to be guided differently; I just don't see it's a worthwhile action, 6 months after the event. Nick Moyes (talk) 10:34, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks. This is why I hesitated to go after Ylevental in SRG, and I will not going to do it after these explanations. It's going to hurt more than a gain.  Mario Jump  83!  10:44, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Inappropriate response and written tone
I do not find your response appropriate. To me it shows blatant bias and makes incorrect assumptions. I do appreciate the constructive replies I have received here though as I am new to Wikipedia, but yours was unfortunately not. CThomasFox (talk) 04:00, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * You'll be referring to my response to your Teahouse post in which you stated "The person who edited the page is not sound of mind.". I don't feel that remark lets you claim any moral high ground when it comes to 'inappropriateness' or 'bias', but I see you've now taken your own "blatant biases" to the article's talk page where it can be addressed by any interested editor. You won't survive long on Wikipedia if you attempt to edit it as a platform for your own view of the world. You might wish to read WP:NPOV. Nick Moyes (talk) 10:27, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * It seems like you are trying to make things progress in a counterproductive manner. You have taken it to the next level and it shows obvious bias on your end. I joined within the past 2 days and my opinion triggered you to the point that you are talking about whether or not I will survive here like a childhood bully to the new kid. You just didn’t like what I had to say, but you do not hold yourself to the same standards. Saying someone is not sound of mind in their writing is not a personal attack, but you took it that way because you were offended by my opinion of the topic. That is inappropriate. CThomasFox (talk) 18:41, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * To be clear, I am not attempting to put anyone down here and I am genuinely trying to contribute to making the page fair and unbiased CThomasFox (talk) 18:51, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Like I said above, I don't feel you have any moral high ground to stand on here. Many new editors arrive on Wikipedia, thinking they can bring their opinions and biases to bear in articles. It was not a case of liking/not liking what you had to say. You attacked the mental state of an unknown user for an edit that they made (which is not permitted under our policies), and you propounded a ridiculous view on a talk page that Trump was not defeated in the 2020 US Presidential election, simply because there are ongoing and probably baseless legal challenges being made. My experience tells me that people with those kind of attitudes do not last long here, and my advice and guidance about WP:NPA, WP:NPOV and WP:RS was offered in good faith, and to inform you to be careful. All of that still stands. Nick Moyes (talk) 23:52, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – January 2021
News and updates for administrators from the past month (December 2020).

Administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg Hammersoft
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Andres • Brion VIBBER • Rkitko • Thatcher

CheckUser changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg Barkeep49 • BDD • CaptainEek • Primefac

Oversight changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg Barkeep49 • BDD • CaptainEek
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Joe Roe

Guideline and policy news
 * Speedy deletion criterion T3 (duplication and hardcoded instances) has been repealed following a request for comment.

Technical news
 * You can now put pages on your watchlist for a limited period of time.

Arbitration
 * By motion, standard discretionary sanctions have been temporarily authorized for all pages relating to the Horn of Africa (defined as including Ethiopia, Somalia, Eritrea, Djibouti, and adjoining areas if involved in related disputes). The effectiveness of the discretionary sanctions can be evaluated on the request by any editor after March 1, 2021 (or sooner if for a good reason).
 * Following the 2020 Arbitration Committee elections, the following editors have been appointed to the Arbitration Committee:, , , , , ,.

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