User talk:Nikkimaria/Archive 44

Books & Bytes – Issue 51
 The Wikipedia Library Books & Bytes

Issue 51, May – June 2022 
 * New library partners
 * SAGE Journals
 * Elsevier ScienceDirect
 * University of Chicago Press
 * Information Processing Society of Japan
 * Feedback requested on this newsletter
 * 1Lib1Ref May 2022

Read the full newsletter Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --16:45, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Poke
Hey Nikki ... I think everything at WP:FASA has "matured", for whenever you have a chance to look. Bst, Sandy Georgia (Talk)  23:55, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

CMRI
I've been doing some heavy editing recently of the CMRI page. I see you've been undoing some of my work, so I'd like to see your thoughts on the direction of the changes. I don't want to waste my time if my work is just going to be undone. It looks like someone put some flags on the overall CMRI article, and they weren't specific so I have no idea where they saw the bigger issues. I'm curious what secondary sources would be acceptable to you, since just about everyone on the group is a primary source, so it would be nearly impossible to make a wiki page without using some primary sources. G4wa5r4gasag (talk) 04:03, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi G4wa5r4gasag, generally speaking we want to keep Wikipedia articles based primarily on reliable independent secondary sources. I'd suggest in this case that strength of sourcing is particularly important for material that is potentially contentious, such as the Criticisms section, or involving analysis or synthesis, such as the sections on changes in the post-Schuckardt period. I'd also suggest that in the absence of secondary sourcing calling out specific individuals (particularly ones still living) should be avoided. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:17, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Biographies of living persons are allowed and I've tried to give minimal information on living persons and their relationship to the group, such as noting that they are a priest in the group. I'll pause my edits and allow you or anyone else to take a fresh look and delete or flag anything in particular that needs sourcing. There are pretty good sources for the time period of 1967 to 1989 (I've requested numerous newspaper articles that I haven't yet posted, but this should be possible soon), but then much of the source material drops off after 1989. Something I think is very important to keep are the claims of credible sexual abuse of the priests that worked with CMRI in the beginning. I have never seen someone connect these credibly accused priests to the CMRI group specifically, and I think it's very important information that should be highlighted. CMRI operated as an underground cult in the early 1970s, and these priests have been identified through independent media. As for criticisms, I'm fine if someone feels they are not sourced enough and should be removed. I've tried to remove opinions without sources, but please take a look and delete anything you think shouldn't be in the article. Much of the basic biographical material since 1989 comes from CMRI sources or obituaries. G4wa5r4gasag (talk) 23:11, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Biographies of living persons are allowed, but there are very stringent requirements as to their content and sourcing, including around accusations of crimes. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:07, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Bill Reinhardt
You could have discussed with me your intent to remove the Further Reading section of the article I created on Bill Reinhardt that had 14 references. I spent two years researching him, did numerous interviews and spent hundreds of dollars at universities on research. Imprudent and presumptuous of you.

Chris Kaufmann Cnkaufmann (talk) 11:12, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Cnkaufmann, generally speaking a Further reading section in a Wikipedia article is intended to point to publications containing more detail about the article subject - the entries that were included in that article generally did not do that. WP:Further reading has some more information that may be helpful (see in particular the Considerations section). 22:12, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Possible copyright issue in Henry Sherwood article?
Hi Nikkimaria, there's a possible copyright issue on the Henry Sherwood page. I tried to report it on the Copyright problems, but couldn't figure out how to code it. In the "References" section it says: "Mayors of Toronto, Volume 1, 1834 – 1899 by Victor Loring Russell ©1982 Published by: The Boston Mills Press Used with permission". Is "used by permission" sufficient to satisfy copyright concerns? Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 01:24, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Mr Serjeant Buzfuz, typically no - usually when people say that they mean someone has allowed the content to be used for Wikipedia purposes rather than released under a free license, and Wikipedia-use-only permissions are not considered compatible. Do you know which portion(s) of the article come from that source? 01:28, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that's what I thought. I've not seen a copy of the book so I don't know to what extent it's used in the article.  I may see if I can track it down for a comparison. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 13:14, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Tracked down the book on Internet Archive and substituted proper inline cites; deleted weird "used by permission".  Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 00:42, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

'George Relph' article
Hi,

Looking over this article last night, I noticed you had removed the section 'Who's Who', listing the actor's theatre credits. You gave 'cull' as your reason, but with no clue as to why the cull. Is it perhaps to do with copyright? Verbatim text from a copyrighted source? (Albeit 60 years old) I feel this leaves the article somewhat the poorer. For an actor of George Relph's era, theatre was the main medium of expression (you can see by the number of credits). Without his theatre work, I think the article is less representative of him. It's like having an article about Madonna leaving out her music, but listing only her films. Would there be a way please, that some or all of the 'Who's Who' C.V. could go back - is there a way of circumventing the copyright issue (presuming that is why it was removed)? Perhaps rephrasing the text?

Beryl reid fan (talk) 13:20, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Beryl reid fan, rephrasing some of the text could work. Unfortunately a 1960 work is unlikely to be out of copyright, particularly since there still seems to be an entry for Relph in the modern edition (although I don't have access to compare the text at the moment). Nikkimaria (talk) 13:48, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

O.K. thanks Nikkimaria, I'll take a look at doing that. Add it to the list, anyway. Cheers. Beryl reid fan (talk) 14:05, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

drumstep article
Hiya,

I'm coming from the Drumstep page, and it looks like my yesterday contribution has been deleted (not everything but a big part is missing)

I don't know if it's because of the sources I use, but as a drumstep enjoyer myself, i make sur everything I say is accurate.

Thank you anyway for helping spreading the knowledge in electronic music.

Regards

Vincent-vst (talk) 15:28, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Vincent-vst, yes, unfortunately wikis aren't considered reliable for use in citations, and we need citations rather than personal experience to back up content. I'd suggest having a read through WP:Reliable sources to help guide you in locating sources to expand the article. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:51, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: July 2022
About This Month in GLAM · Subscribe/Unsubscribe · Global message delivery · Romaine 01:24, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Library/Coordinators/Signup
Is the The Wikipedia Library/Coordinators/Signup page still active? There are a few old unanswered requests there.

The page m:The Wikipedia Library/Coordinators says that it's "outdated" at the top, which is relatively clearer, but it still has "signup" link.

People sometimes ask me whether they can apply to be coördinators, and I'm not sure what to respond. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 07:24, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
 * It's not currently active. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:26, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Palladian architecture
Thank you and all who helped including Johnbod, KJP1, Ceoil, Tryptofish, for being instrumental in Palladian architecture survive FAR, mostly written by Giano and nominated by Bishonen in 2004. It's a pleasure to see it on the Main page today. More detail later, you have to start somewhere. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:49, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Seeking advice (again)
Good afternoon, Nikki. May I once more trouble you for your opinion? I'd like to use this image (top one), and I'm hoping it is OK, being only words on book spines. Grateful for your guidance.  Tim riley  talk   14:04, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Tim, I'd anticipate you'd be fine with uploading that image locally as PD-simple. I'd be less confident in hosting it at Commons - it would probably be fine, but the UK has a lower threshold of originality. Nikkimaria (talk) 17:22, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Splendid! Thank you so much, Nikkimaria (for about the hundredth time)!  Tim riley  talk   17:23, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Help with editing
Hi, I have seen that you have edited missing persons lists. I could use some help adding entries to lists, do you think that you could help me out? Davidgoodheart (talk) 21:44, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't think I'm best suited to that particular task, sorry. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:44, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Re: Joan Gadsdon
Thanks for your edits. They make good sense. Appropriate changes made to text and references. Vortexionio (talk) 18:52, 16 August 2022 (UTC).

King Kong vs. Godzilla/GA1
Nikki, if you have a moment, I would like to get another opinion on the fair use images in King Kong vs. Godzilla. I'm doing the GA review and to me they seem excessive -- I've seen articles with three justified fair use images, but I don't think these pass muster. The editor who added them is arguing they are justified. Do you have time to take a look and comment at the GAN? Thanks. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:50, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

FAC Mentor Request
Your name was listed at Mentoring for FAC so I wanted to ask about Leafpad, an article that was recently rewritten/expanded and promoted to GA that I would like to get to FA status. The problem is I have zero experience with FA so I wanted to ask for your input before moving forward with that process. Any help or advice that you can provide would be greatly appreciated, as I am very much out of my comfort zone with the whole FA process, which seems daunting and honestly intimidating. - Aoidh (talk) 21:26, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Aoidh, my number one piece of advice for an article like this one would be to get someone who's a subject-matter expert to read through, and also get someone who has no background on the subject at all. The former will catch technical errors and missing content; the latter will catch jargon and areas that need additional explanation. A peer review advertised to relevant WikiProjects and flagged as FAC preparation might be a good way to get both.
 * Some more specific comments on the article as it stands:
 * If there's any way to avoid having one-paragraph sections, that would be ideal. Are there more reviews available? Can more context be added for non-expert readers?
 * Make sure you can articulate in your own mind how references should be formatted, and ensure all references match that target format. For example, footnote 9 does not include a work parameter, but most other web sources do - is there a reason? Footnotes 21 and 22 are both book sources but only one has a publisher listed - why?
 * For each source included, make sure that if it's questioned you'd be able to answer what makes it a reliable source.
 * Given the short overall length of the article, I'd suggest not repeating links. I'd also suggest having a scan of other potential style issues - for example in the lead you have "undo/redo" but then in text "Undo/Redo" capitalized. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:57, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your advice, I'll get on those and continue working on the article. One question about the single paragraph sections, would the Leafpad subsection be problematic for having only one paragraph, or is that more of a thing for the higher sections (I don't know how to word it, the sections with two equals signs rather than three)? - Aoidh (talk) 00:12, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
 * It's less of an issue for subsections, but if there's a way to avoid it I'd say do so. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:11, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Inquiry on image review
Hey, hope you are well, and sorry to bother you. I've been trying my hand at doing image reviews of FACs within familiar territories (music, film, pop culture). I was wondering if I could get your perspective, if I am doing it appropriately or if I'm being too "strict". It's more of a concern on ALT text over licensing (which I think is minor) and I understand ALT text is not necessarily a requirement. So I don't want to come off as too stringent for something that is reasonable to begin with. Hoping to get your advice and ways to improve after reading your tips ;) Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Happier Than Ever: A Love Letter to Los Angeles/archive1] -- Pseud 14 (talk) 14:42, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Pseud 14, I wouldn't push too hard for more detail. You generally want alts to be kept short to only convey the key information that is missed by not seeing the image. On the other hand, you might want to push a bit more at File:Patrick_Osborne.jpg: the default is to AGF on own-work claims, but that uploader has had a lot of own-work-claimed images deleted. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:45, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clarification . These suggestions on the images have been helpful. Lastly, I take that using name of the subject alone that is depicted in the image is an acceptable ALT text? Or should it at least convey a little information ie “subject talking to a microphone”? Pseud 14 (talk) 00:13, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 * It depends on the context. See the example at Manual_of_Style/Accessibility/Alternative_text_for_images: it suggests that in a list of military leaders "Napoleon Bonaparte" would be an appropriate alt for an image of Napoleon, whereas in his own article more description is warranted. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:21, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

MOS:GEOLINK
Hello again Nikkimaria! Thank you for correcting my infobox for the page Sherwood Battle Brockwell in regards to the Template:Infobox person, and MOS:GEOLINK in regards to the linking of the state of birth, in this case which is North Carolina. If you don't mind, I do want to ask just one more question about this. MOS:GEOLINK states in regards to the linking of states that "For geographic places specified with the name of the larger territorial unit following a comma, generally do not link the larger unit." soon after giving the example of [Buffalo, New York|Buffalo] (not giving New York its own link). My question is, when would you not link the larger state? New York makes sense as not to link with it being a famous state, but North Carolina, which isn't a hugely notable state outside of the US, is also not linked? I'm just asking this for future reference which states are considered not notable enough to be linked, and which states are notable enough and should not be linked- not to argue over whether North Carolina should be linked in the Sherwood Battle Brockwell article or not, because if it's the standard it's the standard. I hope this question makes sense, and thank you for your help! Cheers  Johnson 524  (Talk!) 13:50, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Johnson524, I would almost never link the larger state, for a couple of reasons. First off, Town, State in read mode is nearly indistinguishable from Town, State (which is also a really common titling format for US places) - compare MOS:SOB. Second, in this context we already have a link to the most specific target (the town) to contextualize for the reader. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:32, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Ok, thank you for the quick and helpful feedback!  Johnson 524  (Talk!) 03:05, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXCVII, August 2022
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 08:59, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Image question at Talk:Mariam Soulakiotis/GA1
Nikki, can I bother you for another image question? The three images of Soulakiotis in Mariam Soulakiotis are AP photos -- e.g. see the credit here. The publications used as sources are all Australian and they are now PD in Australia. We've found a UK republication, more than 30 days later, here, but so far no US republication despite searching newspapers.com; however, as an AP photo it seems quite possible it did get republished in the US. I'm trying to figure out how to navigate the Hirtle chart for this. It seems to me that if there's no republication in the US within 30 days, we're in the 1927-1977 row for published abroad and not PD in Australia on 1/1/96, which means it is under copyright in the US. The nominator suggests that as an AP picture it's reasonable to assume republication in the US, and it's then PD in the US if copyright was not renewed. I have not looked to see if copyright was renewed in that case but can figure that if you say it's the appropriate path to go down. Unless AP systematically renewed every photo they ever took I would imagine it was not renewed. If you have time and can comment at the GA review that would be great. Thanks. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:12, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi
Why do you keep editing the Naknak Wikipedia page? Are you a mod or something? TherealGordon94 (talk) 15:06, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi TherealGordon94, the source you are adding is not considered reliable. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:30, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Do you know anything about this topic? How did you even find this page? TherealGordon94 (talk) 13:21, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I know quite a bit about reliable sourcing, and monitor for additions of unreliable sources like the one you used. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:26, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

How can you have any idea if the source is reliable or not if you dont know anything about the topic? Seriously, can you just stop? You haven't added any information to the article at all, you just keep deleting stuff. TherealGordon94 (talk) 14:03, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Because reliability isn't based on whether claims are true or not - even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Instead we look at a source's editorial oversight, fact-checking, author expertise, etc. Material lacking citations to reliable sources should not be restored until such a source can be found. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:58, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Reliability isn't based on whether claims are true or not? 😆 You're going to have to explain that one to me. TherealGordon94 (talk) 01:27, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
 * If you posted something here, it could be true; that doesn't make you a reliable source that we can cite. That's because Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and so is meant to summarize reliable secondary sources on a topic, rather than just what some random person says. Original research on a topic belongs elsewhere. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:09, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Now I get why all my teachers say Wikipedia isn't a reliable resource to cite. Cuz a bunch of poop patrol wanna be mods like you delete and change stuff just to boost up your own account. TherealGordon94 (talk) 13:26, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Adding whatever you want using whatever sources you want makes it less reliable rather than more so. The strength of a well-done Wikipedia article is that it is entirely backed up by reliable sources that can be cited. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:31, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Someone deleted the entire article besides the first paragraph anyway. I'm sure if I try to change it back, he'll cite some dumb rule and you guys will back him up. TherealGordon94 (talk) 13:27, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

I hope you feel like this was a job well done. You successfully suppressed information. TherealGordon94 (talk) 14:07, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Wanna be mod TherealGordon94 (talk) 14:08, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Women in Red in September 2022
--Lajmmoore (talk) 15:37, 31 August 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Wikiproject Military history coordinator election nominations opening soon
Nominations for the upcoming project coordinator election are opening in a few hours (00:01 UTC on 1 September). A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next coordination year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available here. If you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 UTC on 14 September! Voting doesn't commence until 15 September. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the current coord team. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:52, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 August 2022
 * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:00, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Jim Pappin image
Nikki, another image question if you have a moment. This came up at the GAN for Jim Pappin; the nominator has removed the image but would like another opinion on it. The image is File:Jim Pappin 1973.JPG. The uploader argued that the lack of a visible copyright symbol on the front or back of the photo image (both visible at upload time on eBay) meant that it was published without a copyright notice. I don't think this is sufficient evidence, since we don't know where the photo came from, and appearing on eBay is not publication. Have you run into this situation before? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 09:20, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Mike Christie, none of the eBay links seem to be working for me, but I can speak to this situation generally. We have accepted front/back eBay photos before, but usually the situation is the image is a standalone "publication" of sorts - a publicity package photo, a sports card, that kind of thing. It's not clear to me from the image description that this particular photo falls into that category, so unless there's something more at eBay I would agree with you that we have insufficient evidence for the current tagging. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:57, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'll let the nominator know. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 13:59, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Newspapers.com
Hi, I was sent approval but wasn't sent a user name and password.. Unlike the others you can't access the site in the Wiki library mode. Newspaperarchive.com is OK now in wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org mode.♦ Dr. Blofeld  11:02, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 * If you were sent approval I'd suggest request a password reset using that email in 'Forgot your password'. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:38, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Nice one, thanks Nikkimaria! Hope you're well! ♦ Dr. Blofeld  12:43, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Consider archiving your talk page. Over 300kb is massive for a talk page! ♦ Dr. Blofeld  19:15, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Saintmalo.jpg
Nikki, another question if you have a moment, from a GA review for All the Light We Cannot See. One of the images used in that article is File:Saintmalo.jpg which gives a fr-wiki link for the source; says it is a photo taken by Antoine DeClerck and uploaded by user Barbet, who is inactive. In a situation like this would you AGF that Barbet has the appropriate permission to assign the license? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:56, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
 * As it happens I've now failed the GA, but I'm still interested in the answer if you have time to look at it. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:11, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Mike, that's a tricky one. You can check userpages for relationships that would support permission or user talk pages for deletion notices that would suggest lack of permission, but of course neither option is available here. You can also use a reverse image search to try to find an earlier publication, which I'm not seeing here. In the absence of any such indications, and with an inactive uploader, an apparently non-famous photographer, and a modern photo, we fall back to AGF. (That being said, since France does not have FoP it does also need a tag for the building). Nikkimaria (talk) 23:24, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks -- that's helpful, as usual. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:14, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: August 2022
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FA Review
Hi, this is Unlimitedlead, and I recently finished up the edits you suggested on Featured article candidates/Prince Octavius of Great Britain/archive1. If you don't mind, could you take another look just to make sure everything is alright and vote on whether you support the promotion or not? Thank you so much for your time. Unlimitedlead (talk) 02:33, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Wikiproject Military history coordinator election voting opening soon!
Voting for the upcoming project coordinator election opens in a few hours (00:01 UTC on 15 September) and will last through 23:59 on 28 September. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next coordination year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available here. Voting is conducted using simple approval voting and questions for the candidates are welcome. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the current coord team. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:27, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Correction to previous election announcement
Just a quick correction to the prior message about the 2022 MILHIST coordinator election! I didn't proofread the message well enough and left out a link to the election page itself in this message. The voting will occur here; sorry about the need for a second message and the inadvertent omission from the prior one. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:41, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

File:Pruitt-Igoe-vandalized-windows.jpg
Nikki, I have another image question from a GA review, if you have a moment. File:Pruitt-Igoe-vandalized-windows.jpg comes from a book written under contract to the US government, and the image page asserts that that makes it PD. I recall a long-ago discussion in which a government grant for doing work did not confer PD status on the work, but I can't find anything that addresses the question. Do you know if images in this situation inherit the PD status from the government? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:54, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Mike Christie, is it under a contract or a grant? Copyright_status_of_works_by_the_federal_government_of_the_United_States outlines the details around contracts, but there are a much wider variety of options depending on the specific grant details. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:01, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The title page of the book seems to indicate that it was under contract. However, it's unlikely that the author of the book actually produced the photograph in question under contract for the government, given that the book was published 20 years after the demolition of the subject. I don't see any indication of the image's copyright status in the book. Ruбlov (talk • contribs) 00:14, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * That's going to be potentially problematic if no more information is available, since it's within a timeframe to end up as an orphan work. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:16, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I'll go ahead and remove it from the article. Ruбlov (talk • contribs) 00:24, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Nomination of Paul Gilley for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Paul Gilley is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Paul Gilley until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished. Tom Reedy (talk) 02:29, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Charles Darling
It's one thing if you just don't like them, but removing the wikidata infobox from Charles Darling, 1st Baron Darling as "not a reliable source" makes no sense, for a couple of reasons. One is that the infobox doesn't use data that isn't sourced on Wikidata, it discards anything without a reference. Another is that I went through the Wikidata entry (before adding the infobox) and cited everything there to the authority control databases... I actually only added it because the existing infobox didn't have even the most basic biographical information. The third (and most obvious imo) is the information shown by the wikidata infobox was already (and still is) in the text of the article, cited to other sources....which means it's all cited at least twice, in the article and on Wikidata. It's worth pointing out that infoboxes don't cite their sources anyhow (and are not required or expected to), its supposed to be information cited elsewhere.

The template is used on over 4500 articles, and if you have a problem with it, you need to take that up in some other venue than just removing it from specific articles as 'not reliable'. The template was discussed by the community over five years ago, and the decision then was "the proponents of this template have made a convincing argument for its use over the on-wiki infoboxes".... it's not something I randomly came up with, and there is clearly no widespread consensus to "make it go away", which is what you are essentially claiming by calling it "not a reliable source".

Essentially, you removed information that's already cited both in the article itself, and to different sources on Wikidata, apparently with an automated editing tool, and a "justification" that is nonsensical. The information in the wikidata infobox is not wrong, is cited, and the article is "better" with information like when he lived in the infobox. If you want to fix the existing infobox so that it actually includes his basic biographical data, that is all cited in the article and on Wikidata, then be my guest. Otherwise, I'm going to put back the Wikidata one, as everything it adds is cited to authority control, the exact same sources that are commonly used for basic biographical data on Wikipedia.

Please pay more attention when reverting people with automated tools, actually look at the before and after. Your edit did not improve the article, at all, since you didn't bother to actually fix the infobox you put back... if you had, you would have probably have noticed you were retyping the exact same information you had just removed, and that it is all cited in the article text. Just because you can make the edit with a single click does not mean that it is correct or helpful. Jarnsax (talk) 03:09, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The template imports data that is sourced on Wikidata, but does not consider the quality of that sourcing. This means that careful (and not automated) evaluation is required to determine whether the importation is appropriate. In this particular case, the data is sourced to thepeerage, which is is deprecated as a source on English Wikipedia. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:15, 17 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Thank you for fixing it, that actually makes sense (which the generic edit summary didn't, tbh, it looked like "I don't like it" about the template itself). I was unaware that that specific website wasn't considered reliable, though the info I actually care about (birth, death, etc.) is given other places as well. The 'handcrafted' version is of course much better than the Wikidata one, which I admit is ugly, and I'm definitely not on some mission to convert them all to the WD version. Jarnsax (talk) 03:48, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Glad we were able to sort that out! Nikkimaria (talk) 12:45, 17 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Sorry for being so "vehement" about it, but it really did look to me like you were objecting to the use of Wikidata itself, as opposed to having an issue with the sourcing of the actual data moved over. Those are two totally different things, and I misunderstood what you meant by your edit summary and kinda yelled at you for the wrong one of them. FYI, however, the Wikidata version of the template does have a "suppressfields" parameter, that can be used to prevent data from being copied over (and a comment in the wikitext can explain in more detail). I will make a point, in the future, of using it to prevent info sourced only from "thepeerage" from being moved over if I when I add them. Still, the customized one you added is far better. Jarnsax (talk) 18:06, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree - unfortunately another issue with automated data import is that it is not as curated as one might like. Nikkimaria (talk) 19:11, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Maple syrup
By undoing my edits, you are creating citations that are incorrect in other places in the article. My edit adds content and consistency to the article.to the article. Absolutely Certainly (talk) 11:27, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Absolutely Certainly, what I did was combine your duplicate citations and improved the consistency and correctness of the citations you added. We do not need four different references to cover a four-page span of a single book. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:48, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Nikkimaria.
 * I am glad to see that you did not undo my edit.
 * Citations 5, 7, 9, and 14 refer to Elsevier's Dictionary of trees, a very well referenced book (over 200 sources are referenced). Citations 6, 8, 10, and 15 refer to the USDA Plants Database that backs up Elsevier (or vice versa) and also provides images of the trees that add to the readers experience, should they choose to follow the links.
 * My next project is to update all references to North American species of trees in Wikipedia by using these two sources.
 * Lets collaborate to improve Wikipedia. Absolutely Certainly (talk) 20:59, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Absolutely Certainly, I appreciate your efforts to add references; however, you haven't explained why you reverted my edits to improve their formatting. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:32, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I broke down the first and last name and entered them in the appropriate fields. I made each citation point directly to the page where the term is mentioned. I added 'North America' as volume 1 is about North American trees. Volume 2 is about South American tress, and so on. I added the language in which the source is written. I added the URL status (live). I added via google books. Absolutely Certainly (talk) 11:37, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Breaking down names is unnecessary and the way you did it was incorrect. If page links are accessible (availability is variable), providing one link is sufficient for a four-page span and does not require duplicating references. location is not meant to indicate the subject of the volume - it's for where the volume was published. When language is set to English it does not display. url-status should only be included when there is an archiveurl, which in the case of these references there is not. via is an optional parameter that is again inconsistent with the established citation style.
 * You also made a number of other changes you haven't mentioned, including changing a correct website into an incorrect others, and changing the date formatting of some retrieval dates (making them inconsistent with the rest of the page). In short, unfortunately you added errors and inconsistencies which require correction. Thus I have reinstated those corrections. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:42, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Why is breaking down names unnecessary and how did I do it incorrectly?
 * It is unnecessary because author can validly contain the complete name of the author. Your approach used a combination of author and first instead. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:56, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I did not duplicate references. I added unique references for each species. You have duplicated references since "citation 5" appears 6 times in the article.
 * Repeating a reference is not the same as redundant duplication - repeating is preferred to having multiple full citations to the same source, as in your version. (There are other valid ways to address this, but repeating full citation details four times for four pages is not useful).
 * I used 'location' because it was a creative way to make the citation read correctly. Simple solution to our dilemma, we change 'title" to: 'Elsevier's Dictionary of Trees Volume 1 North America, and remove the then redundant 'volume' parameter and incorrect 'location' parameter.
 * Citation templates aren't typically a place for creativity. Your proposed solution is similarly not a valid use of these templates. What we could do is expand the volume parameter to include the volume name.
 * Whether a parameter is displayed or not (en) does not make it irrelevant.
 * You state that ' should only be included when there is an archiveurl, which in the case of these references there is not.' On what do you base this assertion?
 * The documentation for Citation Style 1, which underlies the cite family of templates.
 * Why is 'via' inconsistent with the 'established' citation style? It is a parameter available in the template. What is the 'established citation style
 * Some parameters are available in the template but are optional rather than required for a particular citation type. For these templates, use or non-use of the parameter is established on an article-by-article basis - and such style choices should not be changed without consensus.
 * In 'cite book' only one parameter is required, the title of the book, all the rest are optional.
 * You also say that I 'made a number of other changes you haven't mentioned, including changing a correct  into an incorrect , and changing the date formatting of some retrieval dates (making them inconsistent with the rest of the page). Do you have any examples to that up?
 * Here is an example of an edit introducing both of these problems. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:56, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
 * In short, unfortunately you added errors and inconsistencies which require correction. Thus I have reinstated those corrections. Absolutely Certainly (talk) 22:19, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Absolutely Certainly: while I appreciate you may be editing in good faith, your reversion was not in any way a correction and should not be repeated. I will answer your questions in more detail shortly. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:46, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
 * No reversion done. 'View history' and 'Read'. Just a new edit that meets all of your criteria. Absolutely Certainly (talk) 23:12, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Absolutely Certainly, it most certainly does not. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:21, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
 * In which way? I removed the numerous duplicates and edited the template with more information and referring to the first page in the range. Absolutely Certainly (talk) 23:26, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Absolutely Certainly, named references are an appropriate way to repeat citations to the same source; it's repeating full citations that is unnecessary redundancy. You've now removed correct citations. You've also added content to title that is not meant to be in that parameter, as above. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:30, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
 * It is all these 'irrelevant, optional, should, and meant to be' statements that are editorially unencyclopedic. Absolutely Certainly (talk) 23:39, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
 * My talk page is not an encyclopedia article. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:41, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Ludvig Verner Helms Infobox
Hello, Nikkimaria-- Help! You recently reverted a page I've been working on for Ludvig Verner Helms. I had attempted to add an infobox, using a wikidata item, which you removed with the comment "RV circular"

First let me say I am new to doing this, and am finding my way as I go. This infobox was my first foray into "wikidata"! So thank you for keeping me straight.

First I wanted to confirm I understand the problem you found, and then explain what I intend to do to fix it to make sure I'm fixing the right problem. And any advice you can give me would be appreciated. I have attempted to do my own research in wiki help, but it can be overwhelming...

I believe that problem you identified with "rv circular" was that I had cited the Helms wikidata entry as the source of the data in the wikidata entry. (I thought at the time I was citing the Helms wikipedia page--it seemed like an elegant solution at the time since all the data is well cited there. However I did notice and ignore an error flag on the reference). After you reverted the page, I found the wikidata help said that is not appropriate; instead I should put the same citations in wikidata, and then use those as the references for the wikidata for the infobox.

Is my above diagnosis correct?

I have also noticed (looking at other infoboxes) that most of the wikipedia infoboxes simply insert a template which includes all the data. This would be much easier than attempting to use wikidata as the source. And since all of the infobox data is also in the body of the wikipedia article, citations should be taken care of. I would use the infobox:person template, I don't see a better one.

Does this sound like a better approach?

Oh, and what is "rv" in your comment "rv circular"? And what does FAC, FAR, and DYK mean on your user page? Thanks, GuildCV1 GuildCV1 (talk) 03:00, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi GuildCV1, you're partly correct - citing the Helms Wikidata entry as the source of the data in the Wikidata entry is circular, but so too is importing data into Wikipedia that is ultimately cited to Wikipedia. See WP:CIRCULAR. You need external references to support this information, or you can follow the alternate approach you suggest. As for your other questions, "rv" means revert, FAC is Featured Article Candidates, FAR is Featured Article Review, and DYK is Did You Know - you might find this page helpful in understanding some of our common abbreviations, but often you can just stick WP: in front of a term in the search box and you'll end up at the right place (eg search WP:FAR will get you to the page about the Featured Article Review process). Nikkimaria (talk) 03:06, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Dang that was fast! Thanks for the reply, and I'll take a look at WP Circular.  And I'll take the easy approach with the infobox.
 * One other quick question (Maybe). Much of the wikidata entries I paged through (including some in the Helms entry) have an auto-generated reference "imported from wikimedia project". I briefly researched this, and it appears there are "tools" that can do this.  I'm particularly wondering if there is an automated way to populate the wikidata Helms page references using the wikipedia page and it's citations.
 * I scanned a list of tools, found some that looked promising, but got stopped dead with the "javascript" extension. Can you point me to a resource or help page on how to get a tool running?  And is there a "go-to" tool you could recommend to do this?  Or am I in over my head, and I need to be a "senior" wikiuser to play with tools!?
 * I'm not really sure why I'm doing anything with Helms wikidata at this point (my goal was to expand the Helms wikipedia page), but I thought I would at least understand what capability wikidata brings to the table.
 * Thanks! GuildCV1 (talk) 03:24, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi GuildCV1, were you looking at wikidata:WD:TOOLS? There are several options with different levels of sophistication, but if you're looking for something easy to get running, I'd actually suggest you go to your preferences and use some of the ones under Gadgets. They require that you have Javascript enabled in your browser; this page explains how to do that for many of the common browsers. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:44, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Perfect, thanks!
 * GuildCV1 GuildCV1 (talk) 03:45, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

FASA
Nikki, I don't see any more imminent saves for this month at FAR because John is still picking away at Josquin, and we are on hold for Ceoil for H. D. ... I was wondering if you wanted to action the three outstanding WP:FASA pages whenever you have a free moment. Bst, Sandy Georgia (Talk)  01:40, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue CXCVIII, September 2022
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 21:31, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Women in Red October 2022
--Lajmmoore (talk) 15:00, 29 September 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Books & Bytes – Issue 52
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MOS:1STABBR
MOS:1STABBR indicates that on the first occurrence of an abbreviation it should be introduced with the full expression, ie. "National Rugby League (NRL)". Introducing a secondary link to the same target adds another MOS issue (duplink) and does not resolve the original, since readers should not have to follow links to understand abbreviations.
 * You seem to have quite alot of talk compared to most users, but I will say that I have absolutely bent over backwards to attempt to accomodate you. I have fulfilled the tenets of that directive, with your takeaway that we should assume that the reader is better suited to reading the simple English version of wikipedia. I don't want to cast aspersions over the readers of the articles, nor over you, as I'm sure you are a lovely lady, but I believe you will be shovelling water uphill on this one, as I'm not seeing this on the EPL, SPL or IPL. When someone has gone out of there way to ignore the WPRL MOS, it seems quite churlish to absolutely enforce your take on introductions, when it is not widely enforced in other sports.Fleets (talk) 07:41, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Fleets, if other articles have similar issues, the correct response is to fix them - certainly not to use that as a justification to revert fixes to these articles. Unfortunately rather than "bending over backwards" to accommodate readers, you are actively blocking improvements, apparently without any rationale other than "other issues exist". Please stop doing that. Nikkimaria (talk) 11:57, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't believe they needed fixing in the first place, and was pointing out your justification leaned towards assuming people were idiots, and should be treated as such. My response to that would let them use the simple english version of Wikipedia. I am literally going out of my way to engage with someone who is going out of there way to make a sentence not flow. I am attempting to engage with you, but it doesn't appear to be bearing any fruit.Fleets (talk) 12:41, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * My take on reading up at Manual of Style/Abbreviations is that you would be transcluding the primary page rule out to the many pages that are subordinate from it. Whilst it makes sense that the BBC is defined by its abbreviations, it would make little sense for all of it's employees to have the corporation initialised, nor would you expect to see astronauts initialised, though the parent page would be.Fleets (talk) 15:32, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Fleets, we have a global audience, and aim to make the encyclopedia accessible to them - not just send everyone to Simple. There's nothing at MOS:ABBR that supports your interpretation regarding subarticles, nor does simply providing the acronym in parentheses a single time intolerably impact flow. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:47, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry but did you read the link, you are applying the rule for the mother article to the child article. You would not have a rod for your back that is hundreds of articles, your interpretation would see you having to change hundreds of thousands of articles.Fleets (talk) 05:48, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, Fleets, I read the link. It does not discriminate between parent and child articles. If you believe otherwise, please cite the specific section you're referencing. Nikkimaria (talk) 11:50, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Whitey (musician) page: Edit inquiry
Hey there, I just wanted to ask why you removed my contributions to the Whitey wikipedia page when I put in the time to cite any available online sources? sure the sources weren't all accredited, but I have personally verified these as correct as I have watched all the shows (that don't have an accredited source, and have played GTA4 which was referenced) how am I to find any other sources? surely the information of one of his songs being in Breaking Bad is more important than finding an accredited source? especially when previously there were absolutely no sources listed? I'm not trying to just be annoying, but I can't exactly find a peer reviewed paper on whitey songs in TV shows. I'm trying to find your reasons here so I can be better for the future.

Thanks Navy Groundhog (talk) 18:43, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Navy Groundhog, I understand that the lack of sources can be frustrating - sometimes there just isn't reliable support for the content you want to add. Unfortunately though your own personal experience watching the show, or unreliable sources like open wikis, aren't good standins. (I realized though that I removed one piece I hadn't intended to, so I've added that back in - thanks). Nikkimaria (talk) 21:43, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Nikki, this isn't consistent with all of the Wikipedia pages titled "List of  Episodes." Each of these contains a block of episode summaries that generally have no citations at all. The implied source is clearly the episode itself. Anyone that wants to verify that the summary is accurate can go watch the episode in question. As these are usually pay-walled behind subscription services, or in the case of older shows, possibly not on the Internet at all, there is usually no way to provide a web link to the episode. The same is true for books. Take https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eye_of_the_World. The plot summary has no citations, because the source is the book itself, the text of which is copyrighted and not available on the Internet. 2603:8080:6A00:32FF:98E1:2FBD:14AB:33B8 (talk) 19:44, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi IP, there are different sourcing requirements at play. WP:PLOTSOURCE allows for the case you describe: on the page about a work, the work itself is assumed to be a primary source for a plot summary. That special case doesn't apply on other pages. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:34, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

pulling hooks
Hi, Nikkimaria! Thanks for pulling Grant Hermanns from prep, that's a good catch :) As a technical note, when a hook is removed from prep, both the hook and the credit slot need to be replaced with blanks; that way, both manually and automatically promoting editors know in a pinch where the credits are supposed to go. The blank credit is usually a , and if it's the last hook in a set, it'll be that plus a   on a new line. A blank hook looks like  . Thanks very much! theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 20:21, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Noted, thanks. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:15, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: September 2022
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RS
am i missing something you remove http://www.thepeerage.com/p3608.htm#i36071 citation from Lady Elizabeth Page claiming it to be RS. the peerage.com provided their citations


 * 1) [S37] BP2003 volume 2, page 2599. See link for full details for this source.  Hereinafter cited as. [S37]
 * 2) [S130] Wikipedia, online http;//www.wikipedia.org. Hereinafter cited as Wikipedia.
 * 3) [S323] Sir James Balfour Paul, The Scots Peerage: founded on Wood's edition of Sir Robert Douglas's The Peerage of Scotland (Edinburgh, Scotland: David Douglas, 1904), volume VIII, page 209. Hereinafter cited as The Scots Peerage.
 * 4) [S37] BP2003. [S37]

while you didn't remove no.3 reference from https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2014/05/05/belle-true-story-movie-details-changed/8419041/, basically a movie review with no citations like the peerage.com Wentwort12 (talk) 04:57, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Wentwort12, thepeerage is deprecated and should not be cited in articles. If you feel there should be a similar limitation on the other source, you're welcome to propose that at the reliable sources noticeboard. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:22, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Murder of Joann Lee Tiesler
Well in that case, shouldn't other articles such as Murder of Tracie McBride and Murder of Yingying Zhang not have a second info box because the killers are not the main subject? Rexxx7777 (talk) 22:37, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:40, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

rm non-RS
Hi there. I noticed you've been removing citations that are not to reliable sources, but leaving the previously sourced material in the articles. Is it truly better to remove a non-rs citation but leave completely unsourced material? Why not delete the sentence you're challenging instead of only removing the citation? Why not add a CN tag? Mbdfar (talk) 04:53, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Mbdfar, there is effectively no difference between material with an unreliable source and material that is unsourced - in both cases the content is lacking a reliable source to support it. Depending on the specific material in question, sometimes I will remove it entirely and other times leave it in place. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:54, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXCVIII, October 2022
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 15:38, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you
... for the source review Ich will den Kreuzstab gerne tragen, BWV 56 in its second attempt! -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:36, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Women in Red November 2022
--Lajmmoore (talk) 17:34, 26 October 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

October 2022
From your current listing at FAC mentors, you are listed for possible interest in various articles. For the past several months, I've been editing the president's article for James Madison, and thought to ask you if this would be of sufficient interest for you to look at. After my successful GAN promotion for it, there are now another two positive peer reviews as well. Any interest for you to possibly be a co-nominator or mentor for a FAC nomination for this biography article? ErnestKrause (talk) 14:31, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi ErnestKrause, I'm happy to look at it, but I think Hog Farm would be better positioned to be a possible co-nom there. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:35, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I've given a pre-FAC review but would rather not be a formal co-nom. I don't consider myself particularly familiar with most of the politics stuff, and I generally prefer not to co-nominate on stuff that I haven't extensively source-checked. Hog Farm Talk 01:10, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Both Hog Farm and Vanamonde have done pre-FACs (HF comments directly above) for the article though and they haven't signed up for the FAC. That leaves it open for you to co-nominate or mentor if you are still inclined to after you have a chance to look at the article. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:24, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi ErnestKrause, like HF I'm reluctant to co-nom an article of this scope without being intimately familiar with the subject and sourcing. However, I do have some suggestions for you to consider heading into FAC.
 * Make sure the image licensing is complete and supported by the information provided in the image description. For example, the tag currently on File:Battle_of_New_Orleans,_Jean_Hyacinthe_de_Laclotte.jpg states that "You must also include a United States public domain tag to indicate why this work is in the public domain in the United States" - such a tag needs to be added. Another issue is File:Nat-bap-windows.png: the uploader may have taken the photo, but the artwork pictured is almost certainly not their own work.
 * Make sure citation formatting is consistent - you should be able to articulate how a particular citation type is set up and ensure that all citations of that type follow that model. For example, footnotes 4 and 8 and 18 are to the same website, but all have different formatting.
 * For every source used, make sure you can explain if asked why that particular source is high-quality and reliable. For example, Healthguidance.org - why is this site a strong source for the claim it's supporting? Nikkimaria (talk) 13:54, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for those comments. I've removed the stained glass image as being supplementary to the article which has many images, and the other image you mentioned was changed to another image by another editor. I've nominated the article now and the images look better now. ErnestKrause (talk) 12:53, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi ErnestKrause, that's great, but don't neglect the two sourcing comments - both of the examples mentioned above are still present, and these are samples only. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:26, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
 * After looking up some books, "health guidance.com" appears to be used by multiple science books in press at this time including Application of Nanotechnology in Food Science here: . It looks like these citations check out correctly. ErnestKrause (talk) 13:52, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Pietro Yon reliable sourcing question
Hi Nikkimaria, you recently removed a non-RS I cited in Pietro Yon. Thank you for making me aware of Wikipedia's stance on FindAGrave's reliability. I have a follow-up question: reliability aside, Find-A-Grave was the only source I know to support his internment at Gate of Heaven; should we accordingly remove the article statements that were originally supported by that FindAGrave citation? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vipavipa (talk • contribs) 11:35, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Looks like you were able to find a better source. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:39, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I've also found a better source for J. Meade Falkner's grave at Burford, and reinstated the mention of his grave that you removed because of the FindAGrave source. Could I politely request that you mark these with rather than deleting uncontroversial, and usually valid, information from articles wholesale, which is rather throwing the baby out with the bathwater? Dave.Dunford (talk) 13:15, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I've found through lots of experience dealing with poor sourcing that, whether I take the content out or leave it, someone will think I should be doing the opposite. For that reason rather than a blanket approach I do what I think is best in a particular case, and in this particular case I think it's better to remove - really even if you had rock-solid sourcing the claim doesn't seem to belong where it is. But I don't feel strongly about that so if you want to keep it there with a better source then so be it. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:07, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, and I can see what you mean about the positioning of this information, but I've never really understood the logic in removing information wholesale just because of dodgy sourcing (especially in cases like this, where the claim is uncontroversial; this isn't what Wikipedia's sourcing guidelines were conceived to deal with, IMO). The problem here is the citation, not the material, so it makes no sense at all to me to remove the material. In order of descending preference, I'd: 1) find a better citation; 2) flag the reference as "better citation needed"; 3) remove the reference; 4) remove the material and reference. YMMV. Dave.Dunford (talk) 11:50, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I would also recommend Nikkimaria that you improve your change comments. I recently found an article where someone had added a ref/cite to FindAGrave but the tag was incorrectly formatted, so I fixed it. You then came along and removed the whole ref/cite and simply said "rm non-RS". I know what your comment means but many users probably do not, even though the RS was linked to the RS page. Your comment could make you seem arrogant and not particularly encouraging or to be trusted by less experienced editors, and they might just revert your change in response. I would include a more descriptive comment for people who are new to the nomenclature and policies, that is clear, definitive, helpful and encouraging. RichKBF (talk) 05:12, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 October 2022
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NRL
I'm not sure if you might have something to contribute here? Doctorhawkes (talk) 23:01, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Alexander Dimitry
I have improved this article to the best of my abilities. Thank you for taking your time to edit it. Carefully read what it says. Do you want this put another way?

His mother Marianne Celeste Dragon's portrait was on the cover of the 2009 book Exiles at Home by Shirley Elizabeth Thompson.

Marianne Celeste Dragon was featured in the 2013 book Behind Closed Doors Art in the Spanish American Home, 1492-1898 By Mia L. Bagneris, Michael A. Brown, Suzanne L. Stratton-Pruitt Tzim78 (talk) 13:58, 5 November 2022 (UTC)


 * The references to popular media are listed as books.Tzim78 (talk) 14:01, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

I noticed you added a cn without carefully going over the clickable references I added. I also tried to improve the references. If you click on the links associated with each reference it will take you to the book or information I cited. Tzim78 (talk) 14:07, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Tzim78, thank you for adding a reference to replace the cn tag. With regards to the popular media section, I'm aware they are listed as books, but why is it significant to an understanding of Alexander to know that his mother was featured in books? That section, if included, should be about his impact on culture. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:11, 5 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Great I fixed it thanksTzim78 (talk) 14:48, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXCIX, November 2022
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 10:32, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: October 2022
About This Month in GLAM · Subscribe/Unsubscribe · Global message delivery · Romaine 17:12, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Question
Hi Nikki, just reviewing some old A-Class articles and I'm wondering about this image: File:DC2Kyeema.jpg. It's atypical because a scan from a book and I've not been able to find the image anywhere online, although I can confirm that the book does credit the image to the National Library of Australia, per the WP page. Does the licensing still look okay to you or should I revisit? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:29, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Ian, unless there's more info than that in the book we don't know enough to confirm that the licensing is correct. The Australian tag is fine per creation date, but the US tag in use requires publication. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:24, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Ha, no such luck... I trawled back issues of Australian newspapers to see if it'd been published back then but couldn't find it. OTOH I did spot another image of just the aeroplane that was published in a newspaper in 1937 and that can be downloaded from the National Library, so perhaps that's the one to go for... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 16:42, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry Nikki, just to confirm before I try something else, would you say there's any licence we could use for this image to make it solid? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:38, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Ian, it's possible, but you'd need more information - either an earlier publication or evidence that the image was Crown copyright. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:53, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Yep that's what I wanted to know -- since there's no evidence it was taken by a government employee and I can't prove that it was published around the time it was taken, I'll go for the other one I have in mind that does appear in a contemporary newspaper and so presumably will satisfy the US tag requirement. Tks/cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 12:57, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Lord of the Flies
Dear Nikkimaria,

Thanks for your interest in this article. Could you please explain your revert of the explanation of the "biguns" and "littluns" https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lord_of_the_Flies&type=revision&diff=1122160131&oldid=1122097034 ? Did i miss something? Thanks, Hansmuller (talk) 10:52, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Hansmuller, the source you provided was a user-generated wiki, which is not considered reliable. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:23, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Removing bad sources
I see that you have removed bad sources from missing people. It would be good if you could replace them with and better source after you remove them. I have been replacing some the sources after you have removed them. Davidgoodheart (talk) 05:00, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Books & Bytes – Issue 53
The Wikipedia Library: Books & Bytes

Issue 53, September – October 2022 
 * New collections:
 * Edward Elgar
 * E-Yearbook
 * Corriere della Serra
 * Wikilala
 * Collections moved to Library Bundle:
 * Ancestry
 * New feature: Outage notification
 * Spotlight: Collections indexed in EDS

Read the full newsletter Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --11:19, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Providence Demographics
Hi, I've been trying to make a couple improvements in the Providence Demographics section. One of the changes I'd like to make is moving the decennial census table from the history section, to the demographics section, and change it to single column, right-aligned. I can't find any significant US City article that does the census data any different than right-aligned single column in the demographics section.

Could you be more specific about the reason you reverted the table change? I'm not sure what the formatting issue was. Thanks. AlleyRegent69 (talk) 22:09, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi AlleyRegent69, that placement pushes a bunch of other stuff down the page and divorces it from the relevant textual content. Having a big column like that in an image- and chart-heavy page is always going to cause problems. Also, the content belongs just as well (actually probably better) in History than Demographics. Alternatively it could be moved to a subarticle, as is done for countries. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:08, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Look at every other US city article, though. I don't think it makes sense for Providence to have a different decennial census table than literally every other significant US city.
 * If anything, the problem is the crime statistic info box, which should get moved to another section. AlleyRegent69 (talk) 15:06, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Just because other articles do something a certain way, doesn't mean that way is the best (or only) way to do things. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:07, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Milicent Shinn page
Hi, I'm curious why several links were removed from the page and why the birth death dates of her father and mother were removed. These birth/deat dates are important to refute Scarborough and Furmoto's claims. And if the links to outside websites is not allowed, please let me know what is the rule.

Thank you

I am getting used to the comparing of different versions, so please bear with me if I have gotten your changes incorrectly identified. Appreciate the feedback.

Janet WashTownHistory (talk) 00:16, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Janet. Find-a-Grave is not considered to be a reliable source, and external links should not appear in the body of the article (they could be either written as citations or moved to the External links section). As for the dates, birth and death dates are generally only included after a name in the article body if there is special contextual relevance - could you elaborate why you believe that to be the case here? It's not clear to me how those dates, in addition to the subject's, would refute "the family claim". Nikkimaria (talk) 02:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the speedy response.
 * I can understand that Find-a-grave is not a reliable source, since I've found much incorrect information there. Can I say that their graves are at the Mountain View Cemetery in Oakland without providing a link? As far as I know MVC does not have an online list of people buried there. I have visited the family gravesite and know that they are there.
 * The reason that I had put in Milicent's parent's dates of death was that the Untold Lives chapter claimed that Milicent's parents were ailing and that was why she did not continue with her career. In actuality her father had passed much earlier and her mother was ailing, but she had plenty of family support. Elissa Rodkey's article "Far More than a dutiful daughter" has pointed out other discrepancies in their chapter on Milicent. I will add this information to the "Family Claim Controversy" section instead of leaving it up to the reader to see it in another section. (I had also added that because I kept wanting to know their date of birth and death, but I will put it in there in a more appropriate and relevant place.
 * Thank you for explaining the external links.
 * Are you saying that it would be ok to put the Mission Peak Heritage Foundation link in the External Links section? We do like to have people find us since very few people know that there is an archive at Shinn Historical Park & Arboretum.
 * I'm still making my way around wikipedia and really love this resource and want to provide as much correct and accurate information as possible. Thank you for the feedback.
 * Janet WashTownHistory (talk) 00:31, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Janet, sure, that can go in the External links section. Alternatively, you can use it as a citation to support the claims made in the section on the park, although based on your comment I'd suggest you have a look at the Conflict of Interest guideline. Regarding the burial sourcing, this source would seem to be useful for that purpose? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:15, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi, I'm just getting back to the some of your comments. I am going to add this link to Milcent's grave https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/124884151/milicent-washburn-shinn#source
 * It's the only one that I can find that is correct and somewhat stable. I think that is what you said would be ok to add to External Links? Alternately I could put a link to the map of the grounds https://www.mountainviewcemetery.org/about-us/map-of-the-grounds and say that their plot is #13. the source that you mentioned https://sites.google.com/view/chinese-bunkhouse-preservation/history?pli=1 is nice that it has the hand-drawn map of the family burial site and a mention of where they were removed to. However, that is my website and will be subject to change. That map will be scanned in for 2023 or 2024 and will appear on the California State Library website. It is only of historic significance because the area was quarried out completely and is now a lake :O). So I will make some changes and I hope that you can review to let me know if I've done this properly. Thank you! WashTownHistory (talk) 21:32, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Two Of Us (Film 2000) Wikipage
Hi, rather than going back and forth on revisions on The Two of Us (Film 2000) entry, and seeing how you've been around awhile and I'm just starting out, perhaps I'll have something to learn here. What the Wiki rules state is thus (I have just left in the releevent part for expediency):

What can normally be linked Shortcut WP:ELYES Sites that contain neutral and accurate material that is relevant to an encyclopedic understanding of the subject and cannot be integrated into the Wikipedia article due to copyright issues, amount of detail (such as professional athlete statistics, movie or television credits, interview transcripts, or online textbooks), or other reasons.

If you could please enlighten me why the Wiki rules state that movie or television credits  fall under content what can be normally linked, (which would also be subject to erring on the side of allowing non-destructive edits to stand) but your interpretation is that this is incorrect. I read the section you are citing, and it is pretty clear the section I am citing is the exception to the rule you are enforcing. If I am incorrect about this, I am happy to learn why!! Thanks in advance. Arts Publica (talk) 03:56, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Arts Publica, the relevant rule is WP:ELPOINTS point 2: external links don't belong in the body of the article. This applies even if the link is 100% appropriate per ELYES. Instead external links belong in a separate external links section, at the end of the article. I'm not convinced it's appropriate to include IMDb links for all cast members for a film article, so I haven't done that, but if you think they should be included, that would be the place for them. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:00, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Nikkimaria!! Thanks for your reply!!  As mentioned already, it is indeed super clear what  WP:ELPOINTS point 2: says, however the item under discussion is not in fact what WP:ELPOINTS point 2: PROHIBITS, but instead what WP:ELYES point 3 ALLOWS.    WP:ELYES point 3 not only allows for an external link to movie and television databases, it explicitly names such lists and encourages their addition by specifically categorizing them under the title WHAT CAN NORMALLY BE LINKED.
 * I agree with you that it is not necessarily appropriate to include links to all cast members in a project, but the edit in question is not seeking to add ALL cast members. It seeks to add one cast member, with context - ie not a passive addition.   WP:ELYES point 3 provides a clear guideline not just for what is acceptable, but what is explicitly deemed as NORMALLY ALLOWED, obviating any necessity to attempt a purely subjective determination about this external link because the rule I am citing specifically names movie and television credit lists as NORMALLY ALLOWABLE.
 * I believe what you may actually be arguing is that the proposed external link is somehow in some way abnormal, and therefore not allowable. But I suggest to you that my use of the external link, the way I deployed it is precisely the use anticipated by WP:ELYES point 3.  Thoughts? Arts Publica (talk) 04:57, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Arts Publica, I think we're talking past each other a bit. I'm quite happy to agree to disagree with you on whether these links fall under ELYES. Even if they fall under ELYES, they still shouldn't be in the article body, because that's just not where external links go according to the external links guideline. Any link included per ELYES should be in an external links section. ELPOINTS states that "include appropriate external links in an "External links" section at the end of the article" - read "appropriate" here as meaning "anything included per ELYES". (If a wording change on that guideline would make this clearer let me know and I can propose it). Nikkimaria (talk) 05:10, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Nikkimaria. Fair points all. While I think the language in that rules section is ambiguous and could benefit by some smithing, it's also pretty clear that there are few external links in the body of articles. In any event, I'm the newbie here and so I'm quite sure following your lead will only be to my benefit!!  OK.  Thanks for all for now!! Arts Publica (talk) 05:36, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Seeking guidance on an RFC
HI Nikkimaria, I'm asking for some guidance on an RFC. I think it should be given greater prominence than it currently has, but I don't want to be canvassing. Any advice you can give would be appreciated. The RFC is at Talk:Environment and Climate Change Canada, and it's about the use of the French name of the federal department in the lead sentence of the article. There was previous discussion, and then it was converted to an RFC. There was a previous posting to the Canadian Notice Board, and you'll see that in the original discussion I had pointed out that the same pattern is followed in articles about the Irish government, so I think it's relevant both to Canadian editors, and also to Irish editors. Now that it's been turned into a formal RFC, would it be okay to post links to it at the Canadian Notice Board, or on the Talk page of WikiProject Ireland, without comment on the merits, just to draw it to people's attention? Or would that be canvassing? The reason I'm asking is that I don't really understand how RFCs work, and last spring I apparently didn't follow accepted practice on that issue about what should be in the infoboxes for the provinces. I would appreciate your thoughts. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 13:24, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Mr Serjeant Buzfuz, I think it'd be reasonable to make a neutral note at the Canadian noticeboard that the discussion has now been converted to an RfC. I see the RfC's poster has also left a note at WT:LEAD. I don't anticipate that a similar note to WP:IRELAND would be canvassing, but I'm not sure that project is relevant - regardless of what outcome is arrived at for this article, it wouldn't be binding on Irish articles. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:05, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Women in Red in December 2022
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Aberfan
Thanks very much for this. I thought it was absolute [redacted] to be honest, but I sometimes just do not have the energy for confrontation on here so I very much hoped that someone else would address it. Cowardly and lazy, yes, but effective. Thanks again and all good wishes DBaK (talk) 08:20, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

wilkins
I still disagree with you about the link to findagrave - while the user-contributed information is not considered a reliable source, a photograph of a gravestone should be.

At any rate, I don’t see that the link you added has any value. Unless I’m missing something (always possible) all it contains is a catalog record listing a photograph of wilkins (not shown), and has nothing to do with his personal life. Peter Flass (talk) 16:45, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
 * A photograph can only source what is shown in it - most of the original claim was not. The only piece that was included was the death date; the new source has that, and is a secondary source whereas the original was primary. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:36, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Indigenous Canadians
Have had a very frustrating time at the metis article... Cindy warned us about when this got merged that this may happen...o well....With that said it made me double check our main article and I really think we should review indigenous people of Canada article. Thinking it's not GA level anymore or should I say up to today's standards and we should consolidate a lot of the information. Are you up for a review of the holidays? I mentioned this in the past just keeps getting delayed. Moxy - 01:57, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Moxy, are you looking to delist the article, or improve it back to standards? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:59, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Bringing it back up to standards. Was planning to spend some time editing it and getting you to take a quick review..... alongside your recommendations. Moxy -Maple Leaf (Pantone).svg 02:02, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Moxy, sure - if you want to take a run through first and then let me know when it's ready to take a look? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:03, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * sounds good I'll let you know in the new year. Moxy -Maple Leaf (Pantone).svg 02:04, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Grant Hermanns
Nikkimaria, any chance you can return to this nomination and give further information on the close paraphrasing? Unfortunately, you weren't pinged in the response to your most recent comment. Many thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:36, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CC, December 2022
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 12:56, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

RFC Metis Ontario
Pls see Talk:Métis Moxy - 15:24, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: November 2022
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The vote for U.S. distinction
Hi Nikkimaria

Squared.Circle.Boxing already pinged you. Just wanted to let you know in advance, when I said that someone should stop you, I meant it as not for you to do extra work on your part. You must have seen my name already, I removed the U.S., you put it back and now I'm all for it. Thanks to SCB and Bagumba it makes sense to have it. You do a lot of work, so you may want to read the discussion and vote. Sorry I forgot to ping you.

Regards,

Bringingthewood (talk) 01:04, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Noted, thanks. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:05, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
 * You're very welcome and thank you for voting. Bringingthewood (talk) 01:23, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

 * Cheers SchroCat, same to you! Nikkimaria (talk) 00:10, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Hurley, WI wikipedia article
Nikkimaria: Why are continually deleting the entries for both John R. Sturgul, Professor Emeritus at the University of Adelaide, South Australia. [source: https://www.mtu.edu] and Elder Law Attorney Paul A. Sturgul, longest-serving president of the National Elder Law Foundation [source, https://nelf.org]. Attorney Sturgul is only the only person to have served as president of the Elder Law Sections of both the Wisconsin and Michigan State Bars. He is also a Fellow of the National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys, and of the Wisconsin Law Foundation. You seem to be picking on both John and Paul Sturgul. You have not deleted any other entries. Do you have some animus against them? Please undue your action. Thank you. NorthernHistorian1 (talk) 23:56, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi NorthernHistorian1, if you believe these individuals meet Wikipedia's notability standard, you can restore them with sourcing supporting that belief. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:09, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Since you deleted them and I have previously and again now provided you with the sources: for Professor John R. Sturgul https://www.mtu.edu and for Elder Law Attorney Paul A. Sturgul, https://nelf.org  I asking you to restore them.  This will be a gesture of good will on your part.   Thank you. NorthernHistorian1 (talk) 21:51, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Hey, it's good to meet you. I'm another Wikipedia editor like Nikki, and my hometown isn't far from Hurley. Nikki is right in that the people you're looking to list have to meet Wikipedia's people-specific notability test. That generally happens when "they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject" (emphases in original). From some quick searching online, I don't think John or Paul meet these standards—I'm sorry. Best, Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 01:36, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

David Atlas
Why bring back the original Infobox (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=David_Atlas&diff=1129382671&oldid=1129310691) when the Infobox with Wikidata is entirely referenced and gives more informations?

Pierre cb (talk) 03:26, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
 * More information does not mean better - see the MOS. The previous version was appropriate for the subject. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:10, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Frank Page (broadcaster)
Hi Nikkimaria. I generally understood the logic behind you removing Find a Grave citations not placed there by me from the article, but why remove Find a Grave from "External links" as that section has nothing to do with citations or referencing whatsoever? Best, Lieutcoluseng (talk) 16:00, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Lieutcoluseng, per WP:ELNEVER it can't be included when it contains copyrighted material from other sources - the text at that link appears to have been copied verbatim from a published obit. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:03, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Understood, Nikki. Thanks for the timely response. Happy new year, Lieutcoluseng (talk) 17:25, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Women in Red January 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 18:02, 27 December 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Talk:Louis Brandeis Supreme Court nomination/GA1
Nikkimaria, this GA nomination was originally delayed due to a second opinion request from the reviewer regarding copyvio/close paraphrasing, and some was found. It's now back to that point, and I was wondering whether you could take a look yourself; I think someone else experienced in that area needs to see whether other instances remain. Thank you very much, and I hope you've been having a good holiday season. BlueMoonset (talk) 20:58, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

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Happy Kalends of January

 * Cheers Ealdgyth, same to you! Nikkimaria (talk) 14:08, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Nikkimaria!
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 * Cheers. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:29, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Happy New Year!
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Happy New Year! Nikkimaria, I hope the New Year is most excellent for you and yours! Best wishes, and it was fun working with you on Wikipedia this year! In spite of what the time clock says, it's January 1 where I'm posting from!

Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 02:16, 2 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Cheers Mr Serjeant Buzfuz, same to you. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:30, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Happy new year!
Hi Nikkimaria, I hope you have a happy and healthy New Year! Thank you for your continued dedication to quality and contributions to the wiki. Best wishes, Eddie891 Talk Work 22:08, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Cheers Eddie891, same to you. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:25, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Peer Review Request
Hi -- I'm seeking peer review for the page Welfare Colonialism and based on your interest in Canadian history and the peer review instructions am reaching out to see if you'd be able to take a look and share your thoughts. My notes on the review page are: "Hello, I am requesting peer review of this page. I am somewhat new to the peer review process; my aim is simply to further develop this page. To that end I appeal to those more experienced than I to advise me." Cheers and much thanks Iguana0000 (talk) 14:08, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue 201, January 2023
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 19:45, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Wyandotte, Michigan
Hi, are you sure it makes more sense to write Wyandotte, Michigan rather than Wyandotte, Michigan ? Your way doesn't allow a user to reach Michigan. If the city was Detroit, for example, would you write it as Detroit, Michigan ? <b style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:80%;color:#000080">Nehme</b><b style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:80%;color:#27B382">1499</b> 10:09, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Nehme1499, see MOS:GEOLINK. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:53, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah, I wasn't aware Michigan shouldn't be linked in the first place. Thanks. <b style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:80%;color:#000080">Nehme</b><b style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:80%;color:#27B382">1499</b> 13:08, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: December 2022
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None RS
Please tell me what this means? I spent time adding to an article which you removed with the above comment, if I need to add more just let me know and I’ll update it Nijs48 (talk) 01:18, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Nijs48, RS is a reference to our page on reliable sources - user-generated sources (eg wikis) are not appropriate sources from which to build content. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:20, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Some were wiki links so people can see what I was referring to. However there were none wiki links involved (granted to another websites). Can you give me more details regarding what is and is not appropriate please and I will try my best to find the information. Nijs48 (talk) 01:22, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Nijs48, I'd suggest having a look at this page which outlines some common reliable and unreliable sources. As you'll see there, Fandom is generally unreliable. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:24, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * thank you. I feel that the motorsport history is worthy of being noted Nijs48 (talk) 13:14, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

What does this mean?

I spent time editing an article and you removed it with that edit. Please explain and I will endeavour to edit the page with the correct details. The information I posted was correct and also had references for the information. Nijs48 (talk) 01:20, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Nijs48, as above, the references you provided were not reliable. Do you have better sources available for the content you want to add? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:22, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

New to Editing
Hi There! I recently made an edit to the 'Oda Nobunaga' page after watching 'Age of Samurai: Battle for Japan' on Netflix, and saw you had removed everything. I was just wondering why this edit was removed, as all I had used were links to the related Wikipedia pages? Should I have used ImDB or another more reliable website as reference instead? I see above, that using other Wiki or Fandom Wiki links aren't considered RS... Would that have been the same for the Yu-Gi-Oh! Edit I made, as it's a damn certainty a set of cards were based upon him. The Shien/Six Samurai card series starts with a card ('Tenkabito Shien') that has a very striking resemblance to Nobunaga's 'Samurai Warriors' representation? Thanks in Advance :) TheForbiddenOne 010 (talk) 14:39, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi TheForbiddenOne 010, yes, for both edits you would need reliable secondary sourcing. There's actually a requirement for "in popular culture"-type content that it has sourcing not only that the reference exists, but that it was significant for the subject's cultural impact. IMDb unfortunately won't meet that. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:04, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

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Single-lip and double-lip embouchure
Hi Nikki, I saw you reverted my merging of the aforementioned pages into Embouchure. Was there a reason for that? The articles in question are stubs that have already been rewritten in multiple other pages, and don't link to anything but themselves. VendettaCalls (talk) 03:37, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi VendettaCalls, while they are currently stubs, there is sourcing available to support a more developed article on these topics. The more general article necessarily covers many topics, such that the current content is difficult to locate and expanded content would be undue. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:40, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
 * What would you consider to be a "more expanded article"? The general article is already split into sections based on instrument type, one being reed instrument embouchures. In creating these two stubs, it breaks with the precedent of the article, whilst not (in my eyes) having sufficient distinction to be a relevant separate article. I wouldn't consider the content "difficult to locate" so much as "in the article where relevant". VendettaCalls (talk) 03:43, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
 * It doesn't so much break with the "precedent" of the article as it does establish a correct hierarchy of parent and child articles. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:45, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Right, but this is again based on the assumption that these embouchures — in practice, specifically these ones, as there has been no attempt to do the same for any other embouchure listed in the general article — has enough content to support a "more developed article". I posit that this does not exist, except within the context of a how-to list for performing the embouchure. Reiterating my question, what do you consider to be a "more expanded article", and what sources support that conclusion? VendettaCalls (talk) 03:53, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I posit that it can very easily exist, given the sources available. I did this with less than half an hour of effort; even with those sources further expansion can be done (covering history, technique, advocates/performers, etc), and there are more sources available. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:19, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for January 19
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Taylor Mitchell, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages CBC and CTV.

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FYI
I just saw: You might want to read through this ANI top to bottom. Sandy Georgia (Talk)  08:04, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Template:Did you know nominations/Isaac Hill
 * Template:Did you know nominations/George E. Clymer


 * Followup here. Sandy Georgia (Talk)  14:09, 19 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Also just saw Featured article candidates/James Davis (printer)/archive1, so and  might want to read up (I suggest starting here).  Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  14:27, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Judging from prose style I am pretty confident these are different people. Looks like Doug has not edited either Isaac Hill or George E. Clymer under his old login at least.  I looked at my notes on that FAC and there are certainly prose issues but it wasn't as bad as Doug's prose tended to be.  I think this sort of thing (weak prose/poor integration of research into an article) is quite common.  If Doug does try to come back it'll be hard to spot, but this doesn't seem to be him. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 15:38, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah, looking at that ANI I see it's Gorval and Trahey you're concerned about. So you think Gwillhickers is just unaware? Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 15:40, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I specifically pinged them, and also linked the ANI at the talk page of Willis Fletcher Johnson (Gwil edited right behind Trahey and Gorval and apparently did not see the issues?), but got no response from any of them; I am more concerned that Gwil was a QPQ reviewer of Coldwell's DYKs, and yet have their own paraphrasing issues. DYK needs to get its house in order, as it looks to me like Nikkimaria is now doing.  I haven't looked into what's gone on at GAN, but DYK QPQ has always raised questions for me.  No wonder the daily errors report is filled with DYK issues. Why can't DYK just throttle back its volume and encourage real reviews, like Nikki's ?  I also pinged you and HF because, since I don't do DYK or GAN, I'm unlikely to become aware if there is future activity; I only happened across this one because of Sybil Ludington hype on Facebook around the Fourth of July. Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  16:11, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I've never had anything to do with DYK, but I'm intermittently active at GAN. I'll keep an eye out. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 16:23, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I think it would be helpful for someone to write up the limitations of Earwig for DYK - I've seen both nominators and reviewers there who assume that if Earwig doesn't flag anything there's no problem. Beyond that, I'm not sure how likely it is to throttle back or fundamentally change QPQ. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:40, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * DYK has been the source of these kinds of problems for as long as I've been editing; you'd think they'd eventually be shamed into doing something, after the number of similar debacles, but no ... anyway, I put out that alert, now done. Still shocked at the number of editors who defended this at the original ANIs. Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  00:44, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Rex Wakely-Smith
Hello, My name is Lilly Taylor. Yesterday, I put some additional details into my great grandfather’s page. It appears you have removed these, I’d just like to know why? Kind regards, Lilly Taylor 78.146.130.140 (talk) 17:19, 21 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I don't know who your great-grandfather is or what you added, but the problem may have been that your personal knowledge is not sufficient to support Wikipedia content. - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 17:24, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Lilly. Generally speaking we don't name people's relatives unless they themselves are notable. This is particularly true for family members who are still alive and where reliable sourcing is not included. Nikkimaria (talk) 20:13, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

The big picture
Regarding this re-revert, I invite you to re-read the content of the paragraph of wp:QUO in which the link we are discussing appears. (And no, I am not 166.48.52.226.) - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 17:32, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Butwhatdoiknow, I have read it, and it motivated the change in question. Nikkimaria (talk) 20:09, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I am sorry my message was not clear. What I meant to say is that the first paragraph of QUO recommends against edit warring over disputed text. Your re-revert - as opposed to adding a "disputed" tag" - appears (to me) to have violated the spirit of that recommendation. - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 20:40, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The text advises against reverting during discussion. At the time of my edit, there had been no discussion for several days. Nikkimaria (talk) 20:44, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Right, the last thing that happened was my restoration revert, giving an explanation. The only reason there had been no discussion is that you had not replied (with an edit or talk page post). You seem to be saying that an editor can give themself permission to edit war by failing to discuss. I don't think that is the case. - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 21:05, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * That is untrue. I posted to the talk page shortly after your revert, and waited. Only after several days of no response did I restore the edit. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:08, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Forgive me, between travelling and our multipage discussion, I seems to have dropped a stitch on this. Here is the sequence: (1) January 7: you change the link with an edit summary of "wl." (2) January 15: I revert with edit summary containing a rationale. (3) January 17: your post to the talk page asking for more information. (4) January 20: your restoration revert.
 * Regarding (4), I wonder: did you first check my user contribution page to assure yourself that my silence of three days was the result of an affirmative choice (as opposed to things taking place in the real world)? - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 21:30, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * No - while I appreciate you may have been busy, I have no way of knowing when or if you would return to a discussion, and I don't see a reason to hold up improvements indefinitely. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:42, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * You know all those times I've pinged you with "please reply" posts? I guess I'll stop doing that. If we're discussing something and you don't reply for three days then I'll apply the Nikkimaria rule and proceed with what I think is an improvement (even though I know that you don't agree). Thanks. That'll save me a lot of time. - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 21:55, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Butwhatdoiknow, if we've already discussed something at length, as is often the case when that happens, then that would not be the correct response. But that wasn't the case here. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:00, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * (1) What is your definition of "at length"?
 * (2) Why, when you know another editor opposes the change, does it matter whether there has been a lengthy discussion? - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 17:10, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
 * (1) It's not a specific post or byte count, but more has the discussion started going around in circles and is it clear agreement is not going to be reached. Especially on issues where there is not a clear policy- or guideline-based reason to favour a particular argument, sometimes discussion simply reaches an impasse.
 * (2) Because that turning point is built into our policies and practices around consensus-building. In fact, you've been making that argument yourself around NOCON - that it applies when discussion has happened and has not reached consensus, not when discussion hasn't happened/is in progress. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:43, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay, so if an editor does not respond within three days then the other editor can make the edit they want to make UNLESS the two editors have discussed the issue at length and reached a state of no consensus. Do I have that right? - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 19:09, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * There could have been a previous discussion among other editors, there could be an overriding policy that applies - lots of potential exceptions out there. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:35, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
 * To confirm: your general rule, subject to lots of potential exceptions and IAR, is "if an editor does not respond within four days then the other editor can proceed to do what they think is best." Right? - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 17:47, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Because it is so dependent on circumstances, I wouldn't want to term that "my general rule". Why do you? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:31, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Because above you explained the edit we're discussion by saying "I posted to the talk page shortly after your revert, and waited. Only after several days of no response did I restore the edit." The only condition in that explanation is "several days of no response." You did not indicate any other circumstances. Were there other circumstances? - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 20:28, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
 * That doesn't actually answer my question. I acknowledge that you are unhappy with how that interaction happened; I don't think continuing this particular discussion will do anything to resolve that. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:13, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. But fair warning: following your example, if we're in the middle of a discussion and you don't reply for four days then - rather than checking to see whether you've been active and pinging you if you have - I'll just proceed to do what I feel is best. - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 15:05, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Except of course that's not what happened here - here you did not discuss at all. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:42, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Discussion can take place in edit summaries. In this case -
 * You made an edit with a summary of "wl." Omitting the fact that you were changing a wikilink.
 * I reverted with a summary of "restore link targeted to list of dispute/discussion tags (had been replaced by generic link to all dispute tags." So you knew I was contesting your change.
 * You posted to talk page. The post did not include a ping to me.
 * Four days went by during which, if you'd checked, you would have seen that I was not editing at all
 * You re-reverted
 * - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 16:07, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

British Newspaper Archive
Hi Nikki. You approved my application for the British Newspaper Archive and I'm assuming that it went through well. Unfortunately, I don't know if it's working or not. I signed up for the website and it doesn't let me continue to search beyond the three free pages it gave me. I'm not sure if I did something wrong or if it didn't go through all the way. GamerPro64 04:29, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi GamerPro64, you should have gotten instructions via email? Nikkimaria (talk) 04:31, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I see the issue. It went into my spam. Thanks. GamerPro64  04:32, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Books & Bytes – Issue 54
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Daily Mail
Just out of curiosoty: When and why was the Daily Mail deemed an unreliable source? ₪  MIESIANIACAL  21:37, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Miesianiacal, there are several major discussions linked from WP:DAILYMAIL outlining the issues. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:49, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I see. Thank you. It's a bit of an odd conclusion to me; the Daily Mail seems to usually be quite accurate in its reporting of royal matters. But, I guess we can't say a source is reliable only for some topics and not for others. -- ₪   MIESIANIACAL  16:31, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Well we could - see for example the entries for Fox News on the same page. But you'd need to convince people at RSN of that, and to be frank I don't think that would happen. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:08, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Ben's Chili Bowl
Ben's Chili Bowl has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. I pinged you since you were the reviewer. Onegreatjoke (talk) 22:38, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedians who have access to Miramar has been nominated for renaming
Category:Wikipedians who have access to Miramar has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Gonnym (talk) 07:55, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Women in Red in February 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 07:28, 30 January 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

About the reason for your undoing my edit for the page "Nauru"
Hello, sir/madam. I noticed that you undid my edit for the page Nauru without a proper reason. I have undone your undoing. John Smith Ri (talk) 07:38, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi John Smith Ri, I did provide a reason: the information that you tagged as requiring a citation is already cited in the body of the article. Repeating the reference in the template is not needed. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:38, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedians who have access to Baylor has been nominated for deletion
Category:Wikipedians who have access to Baylor has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:11, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedians who have access to RSUK has been nominated for renaming
Category:Wikipedians who have access to RSUK has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:06, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedians who have access to EBSCO has been nominated for merging
Category:Wikipedians who have access to EBSCO has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:18, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedians who have access to IMF has been nominated for deletion
Category:Wikipedians who have access to IMF has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:32, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedians who have access to OpenEdition has been nominated for deletion
Category:Wikipedians who have access to OpenEdition has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:41, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Germany
Nikkimaria since you're Canadian pls stop removing stuff from the germany page, i don't want to costantly change articles when reading pls revert you changes to early history Samuraiiscool (talk) 01:10, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Samuraiiscool, as I said, please take your proposed addition to the talk page so it can be discussed and the back-and-forth can be avoided. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:11, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 4 February 2023
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The Bugle: Issue 202, February 2023
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 23:26, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Deleting Danielle DiLorenzo.
Hi Nikimaria,

What's up with you deleting my edit to add Danielle DiLorenzo on the Lynnfield High School page.

She's notable enough, she has been in multiple movies and was a runner-up on Survivor Panama and she played on the season Survivor Heroes vs Villains which is possibly the most acclaimed seasons they made. Most survivor winners have their own wikipedia page, and she was only 2 votes away from winning a season. She should be on this page unless if there is a copyright issue or something. I'm going to try to look up sources for her modeling, but I have sources with her acting career as well.

Thanks! Bigshowgunnoe (talk) 10:21, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Bigshowgunnoe, the references that you've provided are not reliable - you need reliable sourcing both to support her notability and also that she attended that school before she can be included. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:45, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Angela Lansbury
Hi Nikkimaria. You removed Angela Lansbury from the FAC image/source check requests. Is this because you intend to do the source review yourself? Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:20, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Gog, Alanna the Brave did a source review - did you want another one? Nikkimaria (talk) 23:53, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I had understood that to be a source spot check and a general review. I shall check with Alanna. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 11:25, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: January 2023
<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">About This Month in GLAM · Subscribe/Unsubscribe · Global message delivery · Romaine 20:31, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Re:Disney family
The source in the background section is non-RS, see Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 371. The way it's currently written wrongly implies the family came to Ireland directly from France in the 12th century. Greenabean (talk) 21:19, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Greenabean, if the existing source is not reliable, adding another unreliable source doesn't help the situation. Is there a reliable source available for this section? If no, we should remove it. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:14, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Joseph Janney Steinmetz
Hi,. I do not understand why: Davidhs0 (talk) 13:29, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
 * in one I added the template Template:Infobox_person/Wikidata. Is not correct this template?
 * in other I added the external link Joseph Janney Steinmetz at Ancestry. Is not correct this source?
 * Hi Davidhs0, in both cases user-generated genealogical records from Ancestry are not reliable sources. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:04, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Cheers! Nikkimaria (talk) 19:04, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Wikipedians who have access to Royal Society Publishing


A tag has been placed on Category:Wikipedians who have access to Royal Society Publishing indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 02:02, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Rachmaninoff Spouse
Why did you undo my edit on Rachmaninoff spouse? Spouse is a valid field in the composer infobox.

Froglife94 (talk) 22:18, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Froglife94], just because a parameter exists does not mean it must be used. Why do you believe this ought to be included for this particular case? Nikkimaria (talk) 00:17, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

"SOB issues" and country compositions
Hello Nikkimaria. I noticed that you removed longstanding and common details from the infoboxes of numerous countries under the pretext of "Resolving SOB issues". It is rather unclear to me what exactly "SOB issues" are, or how you are resolving them by removing longstanding details from these infoboxes, especially since you are not doing this to the infoboxes of every single sovereign country, only certain ones. I would appreciate if you could explain to me what "SOB issues" are, and how removing these details resolves these issues. Vif12vf/Tiberius (talk) 03:51, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Vif12vf, SOB refers to MOS:SOB. Resolving the complex linking helps improve usability for readers. Additionally since the majority of countries are unitary it's not a particularly useful distinction; however, if you feel it's important to include that term, we can simply leave it unlinked. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:54, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for a quick response. I agree that unitary state might not be the most unique distinction, but neither is parliamentary system, also some of the countries in question are federations, which is less common. Vif12vf/Tiberius (talk) 03:59, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

Religion
Sockpuppet investigations/Jobas Moxy - 13:58, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Mahler edit
Hello, the quote well fitted the heading re the period of neglect of Mahler's music. In fact it showed that British commentators went further than the article ranged: not just "faint praise" and "condescension" but more overt dismissal. It is a very strong polemic indeed - "paucity of ideas" - that is spectacularly at odds with more recent appraisals of Mahler's music, and demonstrates how profoundly opinions about an artist's work can change over time, the point being made overall. I sourced the quote from the encyclopaedia. I refined the existing text as the discussion should have specified it was talking about his compositions, as his conducting was regarded very highly at the time. I feel it is valuable contribution to Wikipedia and don't really understand the issue. Walton22 (talk) 19:29, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Walton22, it is indeed a strong polemic; my concern is whether it is in fact representative, a significant viewpoint that ought to be represented. You've commented elsewhere that this source has low visibility, which suggests not. However, I'd suggest taking this conversation to the article's talk page as a centralized venue for discussion by not only us but other editors as well. Nikkimaria (talk) 20:44, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello Nikkimaria, I may take your advice re article talk page, good idea: certainly I don't want to get into a revert/undo cycle with you. But to complete the conversation here: that section of the article was presenting a range of views on a spectrum regarding historical "neglect" of Mahler's music, by way of a series of isolated examples of stated commentaries. An extreme view is useful to mark out the breadth of the spectrum of detracting views. No view by definition is "representative", since there is a spectrum, but the fact that this view existed at all to the visible extent of its publication in a 2000 page encyclopaedia, is worth noting for the extent of contrast with the vastly different later (contemporary) historical perspectives. But if I cannot convince you, I will either drop it or try article talk page. Walton22 (talk) 21:12, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
 * The relevant policy is WP:DUE: if there are many sources saying something and you use an example quote from one to demonstrate that, that is a different situation than having only one source saying something and quoting that. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:53, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
 * There are many sources in this period saying that Mahler's music is, let's say, poor; this is the point of the section. Each example already given there shows only one source giving that particular take on "poor". Each viewpoint is a unique twist on a view that overall clearly does have due weight to cite. There's also only one source saying this: "Composer-conductor Julius Harrison described Mahler's symphonies as "interesting at times, but laboriously put together" and as lacking creative spark.". This is also a strong polemic but left standing in the article. My source is a 2000-page 1954 encyclopaedia. Significant resources were clearly brought to bear to publish that view at the time. Walton22 (talk) 22:10, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 20 February 2023
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Joseph Smith article - Talk page comments
I just want to come by and thank you for your constructive edit on the Joseph Smith talk page as we prepare it for FAC. The perspective of a “native” of the FAC page is very helpful. Please feel free to come by any time if you find any further issues that we can improve. Trevdna (talk) 03:39, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Trevdna, no worries. So you're aware, each FAC needs to pass an image and source review, and first-time nominators need an additional "spotcheck" which assesses verifiability and avoidance of copyvio/close paraphrasing. The first two of these in particular you can prep for yet - for example, if you add importScript('User:Ucucha/HarvErrors.js'); to your js page it would highlight the remaining harv errors for you. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:47, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Birth Country of Ludwig van Beethoven
I understand your concern about clarity and concise formatting, but it simply does not apply to what you have reverted. Your new edit on the page is not only a larger file size which directly contradicts your note, but also oddly omits the birth country of Ludwig van Beethoven. The full name of his country of birth is 19 letters (22 if you include spaces), and I don't believe Beethoven should be spared a mention of his country of his birth just because we're issuing an arbitrary order for concise text.

If you have any more valid reasons for your removal, I would be happy to listen. Or if you concede that you have indeed made a lapse of judgement, we can review together my edit and if there are any other issues we can deal with them. Nikolai Gennadievich Nazarov (talk) 15:32, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
 * It's not "my" note; it was added by another editor to alert people to the need to raise the issue on the talk page if they'd like to add something, because previous conversations have not reached consensus to do so. If you feel you have a convincing rationale you're welcome to pursue that option. File size is not one. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:58, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

Women in Red March 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 12:54, 26 February 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

consensus doesn't overrule copyvio issues
Right, but doesn't consensus decide whether an alleged copyright violation is an actual copyright violation? - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 06:33, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
 * That's not what was proposed, and not a good idea. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:02, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
 * From your experience how is a disputed allegation of "suspected" copyright violation resolved? - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 17:11, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Depends on the situation - can be removed presumptively or taken for specialist review. What we don't want to be doing is telling people that they can get "consensus to include" in such a situation. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:53, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I can see that having a specialist ruling would resolve the dispute (NOCON). But presumptive removal strikes me as a temporary state pending a resolution (QUO). Or am I missing something? - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 15:51, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * It could be QUO, if it's a case where someone adds copyvio and is then reverted. But often copyvio content is longstanding before being found, making the version with copyvio the status quo. For that matter, even in an addition-revert situation why would it be temporary? If I add something and you revert it because you're concerned it might be copyvio, we discuss, and we reach a no-consensus state, the content stays out. The other situation that often arises with presumptive removal is when the editor who added the content has confirmed copyvio issues. In that case the resolution is removal even when a specific contribution can't be conclusively shown to be copyvio (eg the source is unavailable). Nikkimaria (talk) 02:33, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Regarding wp:QUO, copyright violation is a listed exception to the general rule of leaving existing material in place.
 * Regarding wp:NOCON, the result is as you say: "we reach a no-consensus state, the content stays out."
 * I attempted to phrase this as "the content is removed unless and until there is a consensus to include it." You have objected that this language can be read to allow a local consensus to restore material that violates a copyright.
 * From what you've told me, it sounds like we could say something along the lines of "the content is removed until and unless there is a determination that the content is not a violation."
 * Am I on the right track? - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 17:30, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I do not think it is a good idea to make that suggestion, because it opens up the possibility of someone saying "well I've determined that it isn't", even if it is. What is wrong with the existing text? Nikkimaria (talk) 18:07, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Regarding your concern, we can certainly improve the proposal. How about "a determination by a specialist that the content is not a violation"? Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 19:18, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Why not stick with what we already have, which avoids introducing new terms that we need to define (who qualifies as a "specialist")? Nikkimaria (talk) 19:20, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I hit "Publish" before I added an answer to the "why change?" question. Here's my answer: The problem with the current text is that it doesn't say what happens when a discussion ends without consensus. Sure, a suspected copyvio "is removed immediately," but when and how is it restored if it turns out not to be a copyvio?
 * Regarding reference to a specialist, you're the one who introduced the concept (above). Is there no page we could link to with more information about the "taken for specialist review" process? - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 19:29, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * There are plenty of pages that discuss various copyright processes, but this is still the simplest answer: if a discussion ends without consensus, the stuff is removed/kept out, and that's what this section should say. The question you're asking isn't about that case, it's about the case where a determination is reached. Nikkimaria (talk) 19:33, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay, let's work on "if a discussion ends without consensus, the stuff is removed/kept out." - 15:39, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

How about: "Material suspected of copyright violation is removed immediately and not restored when a discussion ends without consensus"? - Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 15:39, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
 * How about just tacking on "and not restored when a discussion ends without consensus" to what's already there? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:02, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Works for me. Thanks for hanging in there to reach a consensus. Butwhatdoiknow (talk) 15:30, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

F Company, 310th Infantry Regiment (United States)
Thanks for the edit and for cleaning up the Article; it is much appreciated. One of your edits I did reverse and reinstate was the three poems by Sgt. Howard R. Barnes, I moved them down to the bottom under "Platoon Photos." I think it adds to the Article, and it wouldn't sit right with me not to add it somewhere. As for the other edits, thank you very much; I kept teetering back and forth on whether to keep or remove the Enlisted Roster. Smearsett21 (talk) 04:30, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Smearsett21, are those poems either freely licensed or in the public domain? If so, they might be better suited to Wikiquote or Wikisource. If not, unfortunately we can't host them here. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:32, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I would assume it's free to use, the poems are in the book written by the Company members, there is no copyright, or publisher for the book, it was entirely written, printed and distributed by its members. Smearsett21 (talk) 04:38, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Smearsett21, that in itself wouldn't make it free to use. When was this book published? Nikkimaria (talk) 04:41, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * It was distributed to the Company members in 1947. Smearsett21 (talk) 04:44, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hm. "Published" has a particular meaning in US copyright law, and if it was distributed only to members I'm not sure that would qualify. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:47, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I have been trying to reason whether it is in the public domain since it was really never published or even copyrighted; I have yet to settle on an answer. Smearsett21 (talk) 04:51, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * We usually go by the Cornell copyright chart; if as you suggest it was never published, it seems unlikely it would be free at this point. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:54, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Can that be definitively applied to this book? The book lists no author or creator. It lists the Commanding officer at the time of creation, the editors, the soldier who did the cartoons, and "members of Fox Company" as "staff." Smearsett21 (talk) 05:01, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * If they produced this as part of their official duties, there's an exemption for that. Otherwise, yes, it would apply, regardless of how authorship was credited. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:03, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hmm, interesting. But wouldn't this warrant an exemption because it was created as a "diary," not even "book," and was to be distributed to its members without the intention to sell, copyright, or publish? And who would the rights belong to if it was under copyright laws? The surviving members? Smearsett21 (talk) 05:16, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * No - actually in some ways it's the opposite, see for example this analysis which discusses some never-intended-to-be-published writings. As to who holds the copyright, unfortunately being an orphan work can also make it harder to use it. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:20, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * "Unpublished works are those which have not been distributed in any manner", so is it actually considered published? With no copyright? Smearsett21 (talk) 05:22, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Where are you getting that quote from? Nikkimaria (talk) 05:24, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Copyright Alliance. You can find it by searching "What is the difference between “Published” vs. “Unpublished” works, why does it matter, and how does the difference relate to Online vs. Print publishing?"
 * And then this definition from Cornell "Published works refers to works that have “copies or phonorecords of a work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease or lodging” https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/published_work
 * Would this definition make the book a published work? Smearsett21 (talk) 05:33, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * That source indicates that "publication occurs on the date on which copies of the work are first made available to the public". In this case, if I understand you correctly, the distribution was to members only - ie not a publication. See page 6 here. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:40, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Would the men it was distributed to not be considered the public? It was in 1947, well after the war ended, and the Company was disbanded. All members got a book, so well over 400 copies were printed and distributed. And it says "limited purpose and without the right of diffusion, reproduction, distribution, or sale.
 * The book was intended for distribution and diffusion.
 * This is a definition from https://dictionary.findlaw.com/definition/limited-publication.html
 * "the communication of a work (as a text) to a selected group with the express or implied exclusion of the public and with common-law copyright thus preserved compare general publication"
 * If the purpose of the book was to inform, and remember the Company's history, and doesn't exclude the public, wouldn't this make "White v. Kimmell, 193 F.2d 744, 746-47 (9th Cir. 1952)" void? Smearsett21 (talk) 05:54, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The membership, even after disbanding, would be a "definitely selected group". What leads you to believe it was intended to be distributed beyond that group? Nikkimaria (talk) 05:56, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * It was written as a "Combat Diary" and was dedicated to the dead, and dedicated to preserving the Company's history. And the only way to preserve ones history is to distribute it beyond that group, to kids, grandkids or strangers who purchase the book. They probably had zero intention to copyright, that might be the reason no one person is pinned as the author or creator.
 * " a limited publication is the distribution of copies of a work to a definitely selected group with a limited purpose and without the right of diffusion, reproduction, distribution, or sale. A limited publication is not considered a distribution to the public and, therefore, is not publication."
 * This book didn't have a limited purpose, and anyone who owns the book can sell it, or give it to someone, or spread the history involved with the book. That's the reason people could purchase the book, if they ever showed up online. Smearsett21 (talk) 06:13, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I get that. The issue is that copyright applies by default, unless explicitly released, and the fact that the work has been resold or redistributed doesn't necessarily mean that the right to do so was explicitly granted. Nikkimaria (talk) 06:16, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I get that, what would have to be removed from the article if the book was copyrighted? Just the poems? Smearsett21 (talk) 06:20, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I believe so - there's nothing else directly copied from it? Nikkimaria (talk) 06:22, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Nope. There is three "speeches" that are pulled from the book, but they are cited and referenced. Smearsett21 (talk) 06:30, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, I was wondering how I can fix the " This Article may contain an excessive amount of intricate detail that may interest only a particular audience." is there is anyway to improve, or fix the problem? Or will that always be a tag?  Smearsett21 (talk) 06:35, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay, then yes, just the poems.
 * With regards to the tag: it need not always be there. The article at the moment includes content which is not typical for company articles, such as biographies of specific members (which could be split to separate articles, a list, or removed). I'd suggest taking a look at some of the FAs on military units to see what type and volume of content is usually included. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:43, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the response, would it work better if I cut the list down into just notable members? Due to very little information being known about them, I thought the added section in the article would work. Smearsett21 (talk) 03:00, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Even in that case I'd advise a list article, if there's not enough for standalone bios. But you could also ask at Milhist talk if anyone has any suggestions? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:09, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * These are the given examples of limited publications.
 * Sending copies of a manuscript to prospective publishers in an effort to secure a book contract does not constitute publication (regardless of whether the copies are returned).
 * Distributing copies of a research paper that are intended solely for the use of the participants at a seminar generally does not constitute publication if there was no right of further diffusion, reproduction, distribution, or sale by the participants.
 * Distributing copies of a speech that are intended solely to assist the press in covering that event has been deemed a limited publication under the Copyright Act of 1909 (i.e., not a publication). However, under the current statutory definition, offering to distribute copies to different news outlets for the purpose of further distribution, public performance, or public display could constitute publication. Smearsett21 (talk) 06:16, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Daily Mail
Hi, just saw you said Daily Mail is not a credible news source - is this an actual policy, or can you clear up my confusion? In either case, if you could leave the information intact while I'm in the process of construction today that'd be great- and then I can find replacements for the Daily Mail links if that's actually necessary. LauraIngallsEvenWilder (talk) 05:23, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi LauraIngallsEvenWilder, you absolutely can't leave controversial information sourced to DM on a biography of a living person - those are subject to a higher sourcing standard than regular articles, and DM is deprecated. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:24, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the link - that does clear it up. I'll try to replace/remove anything DM - please just give me a little breathing space so I'm not losing information as I hit edit conflict edits. Much thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LauraIngallsEvenWilder (talk • contribs) 05:32, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks again!
TY so much for your help w my Wikipedia Library troubles but I wanted to let you know I've already found two free-use pre-1926 photos of artists thanks to the yearbooks. I promise to use it all responsibly and for the greater good etc. Seriously tho thanks for your work. jengod (talk) 18:12, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Question on James Anderson page.
you undid something and listed reason as an unreliable source. Was that something I did? If so can you tell me which source was unreliable so i don't use it again? Blitzfan51 (talk) 16:15, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Blitzfan51, it wasn't anything you did; you can see the change here. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:31, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * OK thanks. :) Blitzfan51 (talk) 00:53, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Quick image question
Hi Nikkimaria, hope you are well. As you are a regular image reviewer and understand such things far better than me :-) I wondered if I could confirm my understanding of an image status issue?  If a photograph was taken in the 19th century, the author of the photographer is unknown, but I can't find any evidence of it being published anywhere prior to the 1980s, that isn't a free image?  It's a UK image if that makes a difference.  Thanks!! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:04, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi ChrisTheDude, being a UK image may make a difference here. If the image was Crown copyright, the UK government has stated that expiration of Crown copyright applies worldwide. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:19, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * It's the image on this webpage. It was taken in 1894, so nearly 130 years ago, but after extensive searching the earliest place I have found so far where it was published is a book published in 1980..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:15, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * All right, so unlikely to be Crown. Any insight on the context of the photo? Is this likely to be a press publication vs team memorabilia? Nikkimaria (talk) 15:52, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I've had a look through the various newspapers of the day available on newspapers.com and the British Newspaper Archive and can't find it published anywhere (I think, TBH, that printing photos was beyond the newspaper technology of the time) so I would have to presume it just sat in the club's own archives until the first book on the history of the club was published in 1980...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 17:00, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah. Unfortunately then pending more information I think you'd be correct that it's non-free, or at least cannot be confirmed to be free. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:04, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Delicious Party Pretty Cure episode list
we have been using summaries of delicious party pretty cure from this page we just copy and paste from https://prettycure.fandom.com/wiki/Delicious_Party%E2%99%A1Pretty_Cure_episodes and BaldiBasicsFan  says its a copyright violation Ckng9000 (talk) 16:45, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * It is considered a copyright violation. Read WP:COPYVIO. BaldiBasicsFan (talk) 19:26, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

We have to cite that website to make it not copyright because we copy the Japanese title, air date, English title from https://prettycure.fandom.com/wiki/Delicious_Party%E2%99%A1Pretty_Cure_episodes Ckng9000 (talk) 20:30, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

If you cite the page its not considered copyright Ckng9000 (talk) 20:33, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Copying simple data (episode names and air date) would not be a copyright violation, but this particular source is not reliable. You should also be aware that simply citing something that is a copyright violation would not make it not a copyright violation. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:00, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * if that website is not a reliable source then the summary is not copyright because its just like Wikipedia's because any can edit it. Ckng9000 (talk) 04:19, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Those are two different things. A source can be out of copyright and reliable, or in copyright and not reliable. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:33, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Soaring Sky! Pretty Cure
I have been trying to create new article that has only episodes but BaldiBasicsFan keeps on redirecting it to main page. I was wondering if you can make it work. Here is the link:

Soaring Sky! Pretty Cure Ckng9000 (talk) 04:29, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * If you two cannot agree on the matter, the best thing for you to do would be to pursue some kind of dispute resolution. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:34, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * he says an new episode list should be a least 50 episodes or 3 seasons, I have seen some episode lists that have 12 episodes in a new page and he says the episodes in the episode list is too short and it shouldn't be a recent anime that is going on right now. I told him I watched Kirakira PreCure a la Mode and this guy CureGuziczka created an episode list before it even aired
 * This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Ki CureGuziczka Kirakira PreCure a la Mode  (talk | contribs) at 11:20, 30 January 2017 (←Created page with '  {{Infobox television season | italic_title = no | season_name = Kirakira PreCure a la Mode...'). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision. Ckng9000 (talk) 05:20, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * If that minimum number of episodes/seasons is based on a particular guideline, you could also discuss whether the guideline should be changed. I'm not familiar with such a guideline so you'd need to ask them what their statement was based on. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:22, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 9 March 2023
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:42, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

British Newspaper Archive
Hi there. Firstly, thanks for looking at and approving my access to the BNA so quickly. However, I have been unable to access it. I left a message on the application history page, but as there is no answer, I wonder if it is not monitored. The pages is:. I am happy for you to email me by the address listed on that page, if that is easier. Thanks Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 14:14, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Replied there. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:08, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for your help and patience. All working now. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 21:45, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue 203, March 2023
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 21:29, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: February 2023
<div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;">About This Month in GLAM · Subscribe/Unsubscribe · Global message delivery · Romaine 06:19, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

David Bowie
Hi, regarding your edit here – I've looked at the template documentation, and I can't see where it says "no boroughs or neighbourhoods" or "only city names". Can you point it out, please? Cheers. Bretonbanquet (talk) 15:01, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * "Place of birth: city, administrative region, country." Nikkimaria (talk) 21:44, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * So, what if the subject was born in a town or village? Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:47, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * If you're uncertain of how to interpret that I'd suggest asking at the template's talk page. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:48, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * It doesn't say "no boroughs or neighbourhoods" though, does it? London is an administrative area as well as a city. Why does your interpretation trump mine? Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:59, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * If you feel your version should be substituted, I'd suggest proposing that at the template's talk page. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:06, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * That doesnt answer either of my questions, but your refusal to address them certainly answers the second one. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:15, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The answer to your questions are (1) it doesn't need to - it also doesn't specify we should omit "The World, The Milky Way, The Universe", and (b) because you're the one proposing a change to the status quo. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:10, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Pointing this out seems perfunctory, but the difference is obviously that "The world..." etc would be a ridiculous addition which no sane person would propose, and would never be considered necessary in template advice. On the other hand, the addition of a district of 78,000 people within an administrative region of 9 million people is perfectly reasonable, yet no requirement to omit it is mentioned. I assume a hamlet with a population of 40 would be considered vital enough to include while a London Borough with a population of over 300,000 would be deemed insufficiently significant. It is an utterly illogical interpretation of what is, admittedly, a very poorly worded piece of advice. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:31, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Again, if you think it's "poorly worded" and that your preference is "perfectly reasonable", go propose it. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:33, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I will. We're here because of your interpretation of that undeniably poorly worded advice. In the absence of any meaningful defence of it, there's no reason to continue. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:47, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Danny Aiello – born in "Manhattan, New York, U.S."
 * Lee Bryant – ditto.
 * Ron Perlman – ditto.
 * James Whitmore Jr. – ditto.
 * Donald Trump – born in "Queens, New York City, U.S."
 * Jon Favreau – ditto.
 * Bob Costas – ditto.
 * Dina Meyer – ditto.
 * Tony Danza – born in "Brooklyn, New York, U.S."
 * Jerry Seinfeld – ditto.
 * Mae West – ditto.
 * Wolfman Jack – ditto.
 * Lauren Bacall – born in "The Bronx, New York City, U.S."
 * Neil Simon – ditto.
 * Lee J. Cobb – ditto.
 * Dutch Schultz – ditto.
 * The five NYC boroughs (each of whose populations outnumber many "cities"*) are often geographically separated by water (Manhattan's an island; Brooklyn and Queens, with over half NYC's population between them, are on Long Island), and culturally different (e.g. "Queens is the most ethnically diverse county in the United States and the most diverse urban area in the world"), enough to have accents named after them (e.g. Brooklynese, vs. Bronx), and famous individuals like the above examples remain associated with their boroughs of origin, not just NYC overall... so the borough is relevant detail... which you advocate removing, and apparently sometimes do remove, from infoboxes. Cf. the topics of Category:People from Manhattan; Category:Writers from Manhattan; Category:People from Queens, New York; Category:Musicians from Queens, New York‎; Category:People from Brooklyn; Category:Musicians from Brooklyn; Category:People from the Bronx; Category:Writers from the Bronx; Category:Musicians from the Bronx‎; etc. * As do boroughs of London; Barnet by itself has more population than the 11th-largest city in the UK, Cardiff; Kensington and Chelsea (the London borough with the smallest population) more than the 38th, Oxford; and Bowie's/Brixton's borough, Lambeth, more than the 15th, Coventry. Reason enough to apply precision/accuracy. Cf. infoboxes of Pearl Mackie, Peter Hawkins, Danny Kirwan, and Tony Sewell, Baron Sewell of Sanderstead. [] – . Raven .talk 17:27, 1 June 2023 (UTC)


 * WP:PRECISION is an article titling guideline and WP:ACCURATE is an essay on technical language; neither is particularly relevant here. Nor is a list of articles that do a particular thing evidence that that is a thing that should be done. But as I said above, if you feel you have such evidence, go propose a change. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:36, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 * A change to the template documentation ("Place of birth: city, administrative region, country") does not seem as necessary as a change to how narrowly to read it:
 * At the smallest level, you avoided saying how "city" should be filled in for someone born in a town or village. IRL form fields titled "City" are routinely expected to be filled in with the town or village name in that case; IOW "city" is not literally meant to exclude all other sizes of local government.
 * Likewise "administrative region", if you follow that link, takes you to where the 2nd paragraph states:
 * Usually, countries have several levels of administrative division. The common names for the principal (largest) administrative divisions are: states (i.e. "subnational states", rather than sovereign states), provinces, lands, oblasts, governorates, cantons, prefectures, counties, regions, departments, and emirates. These, in turn, are often subdivided into smaller administrative units known by names such as circuits, counties, comarcas, raions, județe, or districts, which are further subdivided into municipalities, communes or communities constituting the smallest units of subdivision (the local governments).&thinsp; [underlines added]
 * And even "country" can have multiple meanings, as that same template documentation declares:
 * ... for United Kingdom locations, the constituent countries of the UK are sometimes used instead, when more appropriate in the context.
 * So the narrowest possible reading of the terms "city, administrative region, country" is disavowed in that template.Brixton is itself a district, which per the above is not even "the smallest unit[] of subdivision"; it hosts the civic center of the London Borough of Lambeth one level up from there, as well as "Lambeth Town Hall" a.k.a. "Brixton Town Hall". It has a greater population than 17 of the USA's state capitals. Clearly not too small a place to cite as a birthplace; thumping the narrowest sense of "city" seems senseless here. – . Raven .talk 01:03, 2 June 2023 (UTC)


 * But per your suggestion, I've created the section Template talk:Infobox person – . Raven .talk 01:24, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Wild Wild West Gadgets
Hi there, It was suggested that this bloated section (which I have no vested interest in) be moved to that fandom page. The sourcing apparently comes from citations of the episode that features the gadget. Some folks had put a lot of effort into compiling that list, and it sat on the Wild Wild West page for years without the references/citations being flagged. Wondering, why now?Plummer (talk) 01:37, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * It really should have been flagged much sooner, but I suppose now is when it happened to be noticed. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:03, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Books & Bytes – Issue 55
<span style="font-size: 2em; font-family: Copperplate, 'Copperplate Gothic Light', serif">The Wikipedia Library: Books & Bytes

Issue 55, January – February 2023 <div style = "margin-top: 1.5em; border: 3px solid #ae8c55; border-radius: .5em; padding: 1em 1.5em; font-size: 1.2em">
 * New bundle partners:
 * Newspapers.com
 * Fold3
 * 1Lib1Ref January report
 * Spotlight: EDS SmartText Searching

Read the full newsletter Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --12:45, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Fair use advice
Hi Nikki, I'm looking for your advice as an FAC image reviewer. I'm writing an article about an incident in which a man was shot because he was mistaken for another man. Neither of the men was a public figure and the incident was 40 years ago. One is now deceased. Would a non-free image of each for side-by-side comparison be acceptable? And secondarily, if it was two images in one file, would I need separate fair-use rationales for each? The image I'm thinking of is in this piece, though the page gives no information about the origins of the images. Thanks for your help, <b style="color: teal; font-family: Tahoma">HJ Mitchell</b> &#124; <span style="color: navy; font-family: Times New Roman" title="(Talk page)">Penny for your thoughts? 19:15, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi HJ, if you're putting it up as a single file you should be able to get away with a single fair-use rationale. You'd want to include in the rationale why the side-by-side approach is valuable, particularly why a more recent photo of the non-deceased person wouldn't serve the same purpose if one could be found, and anything you can dig up about the origins/copyright of both. But it seems reasonably justifiable. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:35, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much for your help, Nikki! <b style="color: teal; font-family: Tahoma">HJ Mitchell</b> &#124; <span style="color: navy; font-family: Times New Roman" title="(Talk page)">Penny for your thoughts? 10:00, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Clarinet
Why did you revert the recent edit to Clarinet? Your only edit summary was "previous was correct" but the edit somehow incorrect? I would appreciate your input, thanks. —GoldRingChip 11:44, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi GoldRingChip, the edit introduced inconsistencies - eg on one occasion it changed an edition statement to "2nd" but on others left it as "Second". It also didn't seem to provide any benefit at all, other than perhaps the addition of "musical" to "instrument" which makes more sense to do at first appearance. Can you explain why you think the edit was an improvement? Nikkimaria (talk) 13:10, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Montmartre and 'rm OR/non-RS'?
Thank you for your edits to Most Serene Republic of Montmartre! I agree with, and am grateful for, almost all your changes (unwikilinking dates, etc.) — but I would appreciate clarification on your removal of most of the last paragraph, which you marked "rm OR/non-RS". (1) I cited existing sources to support the statements there, didn't originate the facts... just the phrasing used to discuss them. (2) When did 'Find a Grave' become "non-RS"? We have a template for it (which I used)! And it has a photo of the gravestone, whose details match the online text. Please explain. – •Raven .talk 00:54, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi .Raven, see the entry for that site at WP:RSP - it includes links to a number of the community discussions. The OR concern is the bit about is this or is this not the same person - if we don't have sourcing to support that it is in fact the same person, it really doesn't belong there. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:57, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
 * That was the point of my saying (last sentence in the text you removed), "Whether this is the same person is as uncertain as the borders and status of the Most Serene Federal Republic of Montmartre." Though Richmond's failure to renew his beloved trademark, combined with the match of full name, rough birth year (within a year), and place (NY), make things look not good. He is also not among the currently listed tenants of that building. But it's always possible the records are incomplete, or Richmond used a 'stage name', or, or, or.... WP:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 326 has the comment "I would say that information like dates of birth /and death can be reputable, but only if a tombstone is included (which often only includes years of death and birth but no specific dates)." And here a tombstone WAS included... which shows the full dates! – •Raven .talk 01:13, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I appreciate you said we don't know. But since we don't know, we should leave it out, rather than just throw in a disclaimer. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:36, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Pending definite confirmation, fair enough. – •Raven .talk 01:57, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Perhaps still not "definite" enough for your exacting standards, but: (1) In 1957 a Barry Alan Richmond directed a play for the Gilbert and Sullivan Society of Brandeis — (2) [Traditionally Jewish] Brandeis put a Barry Alan Richmond in its "In Memoriam: Class of 1956" slideshow for its 60th Reunion in 2016 —  So it seems increasingly likely this is the same person as both the gravestone with Hebrew text and the stage director Barry Alan Richmond who's featured in the Montmartre article. I wish it weren't so. I'd have loved to chat with him sometime. – •Raven .talk 04:17, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 20 March 2023
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Newfoundland
Hi @Nikkimaria, I noticed that you deleted most of an editor's recent contributions under Newfoundland and Labrador. I have undone your edit since the scale of destructive change is unwarranted. I am curious what you felt was undue so we can opt for a constructive edit instead. Thanks. Utl jung (talk) 14:19, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Utl jung, I notice that you have been reverted by another editor as well, so wanted to make you aware of WP:ONUS as well as WP:3RR. Will comment more substantively on the content at article talk. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:35, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

McFarland
Hi Nikkimaria. Thanks for approving my TWL McFarland application. How long does it usually take for McFarland to approve things on their end? I still haven't heard anything from them and wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything. Cheers, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 23:16, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Extraordinary Writ, if you haven't seen anything in another week or so (be sure to check spam), let me know. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:22, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

All the Light We Cannot See
I have placed this article up for peer review for a future FAC, but no one has responded in over a month. I was wondering if you could help with the peer review considering you listed "novel" in your entry in the Volunteers list and your are a FAC mentor. Lazman321 (talk) 16:32, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

The Live Ghost (1934)
Thank you for looking over and making adjustments to my recent additions to this film short's page. Have a great weekend. Strudjum (talk) 17:33, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

NPG controversy
Hello, Nikkimaria. I'd like to ask you about your opinions regarding the NPG controversy. Is it acceptable for Wikipedia articles to used images derived from the NPG? I was planning on using File:King Henry II from NPG.jpg, but seeing as the copyright situation is somewhat fuzzy, I would like to hear from an image expert before making any changes. Thank you kindly, Unlimitedlead (talk) 02:11, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Unlimitedlead, the short answer is, if the underlying work is 2D and in the public domain, it can be used. This is especially true if you want to upload locally, since English Wikipedia only requires that works be PD in the US (versus Commons which also requires country of origin), and under US law reproduction of a 2D work does not garner a new copyright. Even on Commons that approach is generally adopted. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:30, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Women in Red April 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:53, 27 March 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

WikiTree Template
Hello, I noticed you removed several of the WikiTree templates I added recently. My understanding of its use is the following: To comply with WP:ELNO, only place in External links section if the website contains unique information not already mentioned and cited in the body of the article and is not a WP:COPYLINK violation. Remove from External links if WikiTree is already cited in main body, if burial information is provided in main body by a more reliable source, or if the page contains any unlicensed copyrighted information (e.g., professional portrait photography or copies of obituaries from a newspaper).

Can you please explain to me what the issue is? Thanks! Turninghearts (talk) 14:25, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Turninghearts, that template was previously deleted - I'd suggest having a look through some of the issues raised there, as well as in the more recent External Links noticeboard discussion. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:58, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 03 April 2023
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Congratulations from the Military History Project
thank you --

The Bugle: Issue 204, April 2023
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 21:30, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Barnstar for you!

 * Ha! No problem. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:18, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you
I wanted to thank you for your comments on the Li Rui FA review. I appreciate your assistance in getting it to the state it's in today! —Ganesha811 (talk) 14:46, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: March 2023
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There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.Storye book (talk) 10:45, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Ben Viljoen
Dear Nikkimaria,

Thanks for your interest in this general. Why did you remove valuable information, with photos of his tomb with a correct identifying inscription? Thank you, Hansmuller (talk) 16:49, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Hansmuller, the source you provided is not considered reliable - see its entry at this page for more details. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:18, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Nikkimaria, Thanks for pointing this out to me, a general overall rule. However in this perhaps special case the photographs of the tomb monument with correct inscribed data are convincing evidence in combination with the text there, corroborated by other reliable well-known biographical data. So the cited webpage is valuable in this case - i'm not evaluating other pages or the whole website findagrave.com which apparently was found to be of uneven quality - and should be cited on Viljoen's article as an exception to the WP:RS-rule. OK? Cheers, Hansmuller (talk) 06:16, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Hansmuller, I wouldn't agree. The only piece of that paragraph that could conceivably be cited to the photograph is the date of death, and that is easily cited to better sources. Nikkimaria (talk) 17:25, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

FAR lapse
Sorry I forgot to go through FAR this week!! I took over as Treasurer at church two months ago, and they pretty much ran the finances in to the ground while I was away, every time I look in I find more errors I have to fix and bigger problems covered up by bookkeeping snafus, and I've been up to my eyeballs busy. But the problem should end soon (either by me getting things under control again or by the church folding), and I hope to be back in the saddle at FAR soon. I hope you know how much I appreciate your work, and I'm so sorry for giving you nothing to work with of late! Sandy Georgia (Talk)  01:26, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Hey Sandy, no worries, best of luck with the finances! Nikkimaria (talk) 01:28, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Threshold of originality question
Nikki, can I get a second opinion on File:Zenith Data Systems logo 1979.svg? I would have thought that "Z" is designed sufficiently that the logo as a whole is copyrightable. I'm reviewing Zenith Data Systems for GA, and I think the right answer would be to upload it locally and add a FUR. And I assume the FUR would also take care of the possible trademark concern that is tagged to the image? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:34, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Mike, essentially Commons' rule is that trademarks are not a consideration in whether a work can be hosted there - just copyright. And with regards to the copyright of that image, given some of the entries at commons:Commons:Threshold_of_originality, I'd be inclined to disagree and say this probably wouldn't be counted as sufficiently original. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:47, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks -- very helpful on both counts. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:49, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Charles III
Hello. Charles III has recently been nominated for GA. If you would like to review it, you're welcome to. Tim O&#39;Doherty (talk) 16:22, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 26 April 2023
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Women in Red May 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 18:29, 27 April 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

William Muldoon biographical information
William Muldoon didn't die at 88. The NY Times obit is not accurate. The information that you changed it from was correct. Periodically, people change the page to the erroneous over the years, not knowing this. Also trying to understanding the reasoning of changing his name from William, which he was known professionally, to Bill, which was informal and a nickname. 2603:8000:BF42:8E9:81D9:4D55:6494:75AE (talk) 06:39, 28 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi IP, I didn't change either his name or his dates on that page. Do you have a source to support what you believe to be the correct dates? Nikkimaria (talk) 12:02, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 29
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Arthur Cohen (politician), you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Hyde Park.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:04, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Samuel Alfred Beadle Infobox
Hi Nikkimaria,

I noticed you removed the infobox for Samuel Alfred Beadle citing "‎rm non-RS". Could you explain your reasoning a bit more on this? All of the the items in the infobox have academic/periodical sources. Additionally there is no info in the wikidata infobox that is not already available (and supported by sources) in the article.

Is this about it being a Wikidata infobox? If so, in order to view the statement references you have to click on the wikidata item.

Cheers, ElanHR (talk) 20:15, 30 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi ElanHR, at the time of my edit the statement references were unreliable - I see you've now improved them, which is great. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:09, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Revisiting it, I now see the original source I used (https://allpoetry.com/Samuel-Alfred-Beadle) wasn't ideal. Do you think the updated list is sufficient? ElanHR (talk) 22:49, 30 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Yes, looks much better. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:38, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

HMS Gloucester (1654)
Hello Nikkimaria, I'm looking to sorted the RS issue for HMS Gloucester (1654) (which I got to GA), but I'm unclear which sources used in the article are unreliable iyo. If possible, please could you provide details? Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 15:07, 2 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi Amitchell125, looks like another editor has removed the main problem. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:44, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Lewis_Milestone
Nikkimaria Just FYI: Due to CerroFerro's repeated unconstructive behaviour (repeated reverts without any sign of willing to address the issues pointed out or participate in offered discussion), I've now asked the [|Administrator's noteboard] for support. Robert Kerber (talk) 07:30, 3 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the head's up. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:50, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue 205, May 2023
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 11:34, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 8 May 2023
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Disambiguation link notification for May 8
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Michel Cordes, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Infiltration.

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The Bugle: Issue 205, May 2023
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 08:05, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Sean Bean
Hello,

I have a question about The Sun citation that you removed. While The Sun may not usually be the most credible source, they were the ones to break this news, as the other Times citations credits The Sun with the news. In this case, shouldn't The Sun be included because they were the ones to break the news, which was later covered by others? Lord Theoden (talk) 04:29, 9 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi Lord Theoden, per WP:DEPS when more reliable sources are available they should be used - we don't really care who first reported a claim unless that fact is itself significant in some way. 21:30, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Mithril
With all due respect, I am not sure what other source you could be looking for. Mythril is simply something which is just obviously in the game. I don’t know of a better source than the official game wiki, nor any other source for that matter. A. Rosenberg (talk) 13:28, 10 May 2023 (UTC)


 * In that case it doesn't warrant inclusion - see MOS:POPCULT. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:37, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * It’s one of the top 10 best selling games of all time A. Rosenberg (talk) 13:31, 12 May 2023 (UTC)


 * That means it's possible there is POPCULT-appropriate sourcing. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:27, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The section is called "in other fiction" and has other video games which are less notable than Terraria (such as World of Warcraft) A. Rosenberg (talk) 22:33, 12 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Fixed. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:36, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: April 2023
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Access to the BNA website
Dear Nikkimaria, Thank you for finalising my application to the BNA on Monday 15 May. I validated my account (using the voucher code) and received the BNA's 'Welcome' email at 09:41 that day. After registering and logging in, I was able to access three pages, but no more after that, and kept receiving a request to 'Subscribe', which really surprised and confused me. I reported all this to via email on 17 May and then directly to the BNA yesterday (18 May), via their 'Contact us' facility. I received an email reply from their staff member Liam at 09:08 this morning, explaining that a subscription is required after three pages, and that this is normal procedure. BTW, I have not received any other instructions by email, beyond the initial BNA voucher to validate my account, after which I did register successfully and now have an active account. If I should have done anything else, or differently, then I can only apologise for troubling you with this issue. Thank you in advance for anything you can do to help me have free access to the BNA website, per my application. With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(become old-fashioned!) 10:19, 19 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Update: I received an email from Sam at 12:43pm today, asking me if I'd entered the voucher code on Monday, and I did. But just to make sure, at about 2pm today I clicked on the link Sam supplied in his email and re-entered the voucher code, and the response was: Coupon code not valid (presumably, because I had already entered it on Monday 15 May, but that's just a guess on my part). Sam is also aware of this latest update. Thank you once again for your help with this issue. With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(become old-fashioned!) 18:03, 19 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the follow-up - hopefully you and Sam will be able to sort things out offline. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:13, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 22 May 2023
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