User talk:Niteowlneils/Archive3

Katrina Price
Thank you - that's fantastic! ...and what I would've tried to write, had I known anything whatsoever about NCAA basketball... Ambi 06:59, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Having had it
Yeah, I've been pushed into a bit more incivility than usual. I wish I could retract, but I don't think that would even be a rational response, and it certainly wouldn't be a sufficient one at this point. In case you haven't seen it yet, there is now, on Meta, an Association of Inclusionist Wikipedians. Fine, fine. By itself, that's just stuff. What has tipped the balance for me is that their pages aren't "gee, I hate it when worthy stuff gets deleted": they're "Everybody go vote keep on the following articles on VfD." The result is a quick influx of Anthony-styled "keep" with no rationale. Just a string of "keep notable." That still wouldn't have gotten me to be actually incivil, except that it has taken the next step, which is that people signed on that page go into VfD and say, "You people need to stop this" and "Open an RfC on X for nominating clearly good pages." The tone on VfD has gotten utterly poisonous, and it's organized. One person getting snippy is understandable, but a project of actual, avowed warfare? Not nice. Geogre 23:46, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Tutorial
The fancy template was put in by a new user. It's pretty but it's not as easy to use. I'm a function-over-form guy, so if you want to change back, I'm in favor. People are getting carried away with the glitzy html-laden templates on everything. Isomorphic 23:10, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Comma connundrum
By golly, you were right. I had my grammar school English rules backwards. Thanks for the nice comment, BTW. I am intentionally keeping the Wikistress at a minimum and I've never enjoyed editing more! In fact, I plan on adding some info to the Carmen Miranda article. Her grand-niece is a friend of mine, and she was instrumental in having a plaza in Hollywood named after her aunt. Interesting stuff. Oh, and happy turkey day! - Lucky 6.9 23:35, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Will do. Talk to you soon! - Lucky 6.9 00:16, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

re: User:Niteowlneils/csdornot/
Good morning. Thank you for opening this discussion page. I've tried to stir some interest in this problem on the CSD talk page but have had only marginal success so far. Before I begin adding to your list, I am going to take the liberty of expanding the headings on your discussion page. If I've overstepped your intent, please revert. Rossami (talk) 16:15, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

newcomerbiting = ?
Hi, I noticed your edit of the HP-41 article, and your summary "-newcomerbiting" stumped me -- what does it mean, exactly? :-) (in general and/or in relation to your changing of links into ordinary text in the article). Is it a standard wp expression? If not, how about doing like me and putting up a list of 'special/unusual/self-devised' edit summary comments at your User page? Just wondering, --Wernher 03:39, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * I actually do have a glossary on my User page, but hadn't gotten around to adding this, as I've only used it once, and probably won't use it much, if at all, in the future. The issue for me is that red-links that are highly likely to end up on VfD pose a high risk of alienating newcomers that create articles for them. Note that that Sharp model has only one-third the hits of the HP model red-link I left. --Niteowlneils 03:51, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the explanation (and quick response at that)! As for your edit summary glossary: 1) sorry for not noticing it (its 5 AM here in Norway), and 2) great minds think alike :-) Should I interpret your rationale for the edit you made that I and WP would be better off if I didn't make 'red links' for, let's say, esoteric articles, in my text, but instead go on and make those articles myself if I feel the need (and so not leave that to others)? --Wernher 04:02, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * To a point yes, although, like I said, I probably won't use the comment much, as there aren't many things I would be likely to de-link, as doing it to excess would kinda fly in the face of most people's idea of Wikipedia, and in most categories 'red-link responses' aren't likely to be VfDed. The two main categories I can think of are individual product models like that calculator, and really minor fictional characters/places/things, as both almost always go to VfD. Red-links for things that are generally kept, even VERY obscure, such as a species of worm only found in the Easter Islands, or some author that is notable in an obscure corner of science, I consider desirable. FWIW, it's around 8pm here, and since I'm back to being unemployed, I often spend most of my time between 9am and 9pm on Wikipedia. Niteowlneils 04:20, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * OK, thanks for elaborating. OT re my WPing for most of the night incl the "graveyard shift": I'm on sick leave due to some serious sleep problems (sleeping for two days straight, staying up two days)... I'm actually going to a sleep lab in March/April to be hooked up to a bunch of measurement devices in order to try and figure things out. ZZZzzz |-] --Wernher 04:43, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thanksgiving greetings
Thanks for the kind words about our William N. Page article. Working on the article (and your contributions) has developed new leads to several more resources of information. I am also working on the Virginian Railway article and hope to be able to put more in about VGN operations, since the building story has largely been told elsewhere. Is there a WP method of indication a referral to another article (i.e. For the story of the Building of the Virginian Railway, please see sections under William N. Page) to avoid being repetitious, but still leading the reader to the content? I have another piece Auto Train as a fac right now, with no votes of support or objection. That one would have broad appeal to WP readers, especially younger ones, and provides a friendly introduction to many WP railroad links. Could you look at it and comment?

Best wishes for a safe and Happy Thanksgiving from 30 miles upriver from Berkley Plantation, site of America's First Thanksgiving. Mark in Richmond, VA Vaoverland 21:09, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Article licensing
I've "started" the Free the Rambot Articles Project which aims to get users to release all of their contributions to the U.S. state, county, and city articles (if any) under the CC-by-sa 1.0 and 2.0 license (at minimum) or into the public domain if they prefer. A secondary, but equally important, goal is to get those users to release ALL of their edits for ALL articles. I've personally chosen to multi-license all of the rambot and Ram-Man contributions under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike License so that other projects, such as WikiTravel, can use our articles. I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all your contributions (or at minimum those on the geographic articles) so that we can keep most of the articles available under the multi-license. Many users use the   template (or even    for public domain) on their user page, but there are other templates for other options at Template messages/User namespace. If you only prefer using the GFDL, I understand, but I thought I'd at least ask, just in case, since the number of your edits is in the top 100. If you do want to do it, simply just copy and paste one of the above two templates into your user page and it will allow us to track those users who have done it. For example:


 * Option 1
 * I agree to multi-license all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:

OR
 * Option 2
 * I agree to multi-license all my contributions to any U.S. state, county, or city article as described below:

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain (which many people do or don't like to do, see Multi-licensing), you could replace   with    -- Ram-Man 00:07, Nov 26, 2004 (UTC)

Data
I updated the edit list with a small PHP script I wrote, and the CSV user data; I didn't mess directly with the database dump. I was going to give you a few suggestions here, but it seems your problem has been solved, judging by your latest message at the Village pump. Good luck. - MattTM | talk 04:40, Nov 27, 2004 (UTC)

Lost VfDs
Yeah, I notice you do these too. They're much more of a constant problem than I previously imagined. I find them in the following way: I wrote a very simple perl script that extracts all the links from Votes for deletion and Votes for deletion/Old. Then it outputs links from Category:Pages on votes for deletion not currently listed. Thus, I've been working from the category, but the links-to might are probably less tempermental. Changing the script I get:

(Moved to User:Niteowlneils/LostVFDs)

Looking at this output, I think the category works better for the purposes of my script.

A lot of these are misc garbage, recently resolved artifacts, and ancient unresolved VfDs. Also, a lot actually don't link to the template, yet they show on the links-to and category (ex:List_of_albums). I don't know why it does that.

I find that a lot of article have VfD subpages, but have never been listed, like JTF-CNO. I list only about 10 a day to not flood VfD. Cool Hand Luke  07:57, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Oh, and I should note some are listed due to variant link capitalizations, and that you are more than free to delete this clutter from your user page. Cool Hand Luke  10:20, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I just downloaded a copy of the cur table, and am playing around with it. One of the things I've found I can do is generate giant lists of articles that have pieces of text like "votes for deletion" and " " in them. Interested? -- Cyrius|&#9998; 06:04, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

OK, using the list that Cyrius gave me, I produced output and checked the pages by hand, adding this list to User:Niteowlneils/LostVFDs. There are about 45 of these, although some are unresolved VfDs. A large chunk of articles weren't showing up before because they used an ancient VfD template from before categories. Finding possible deletion debates for these old VfDs would be difficult: we'd have to go through the VfD archives history. Probably, it'd be easier to list these. Cool Hand Luke  08:17, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Licensing of pictures
The pictures use a different set of licensing templates. You'll have to use more than one:

-- Hope this helps. -- Ram-Man 02:56, Nov 28, 2004 (UTC)

Cur into MySQL
From a unix command line, I did 'mysql (options for logging in and selecting the right database) < 20041126_cur_table.sql'. Note that max_packet_size will need to be increased. Apparently it governs how big a chunk of data transmitted between the client and server can be, and cur has some that are larger. If you don't, it'll stop with an error. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 18:46, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Chicago
I do not understand what RickK's problem with Chicago is!!! Thanks for your latest edit - a vast improvement. --Rebroad 12:13, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Rocky - 7 theatres
with regularly scheduled shows? Source? Cause I have 3 of them here in Central Florida... Admittedly I haven't been on the newsfroup lately, but I can't imagine it's died that bad; I'd have heard. Baylink

Notes on my talk page
Thanks for all the notes on my talk page! Luckily, my hands haven't been bothering me that much, which is so A Good Thing. I moved the pages back to where they were and left a note on the guy's talk page, but as of yet I haven't seen a response. I'll add all those pages to my watchlist. Mike H 03:39, Dec 6, 2004 (UTC)

Tony Hatch
I am reverting this entry back to its original content, since there was no copywright violation involved, as I am the one who wrote the article on the cited website!!!!! TOM 13:09, Dec 6, 2004 (UTC)

Edits
It appears you have chosen to double-check EVERY entry I've created over the past several weeks. (Since so many of these have been done long after the original creation date, I assume you're actively seeking them out as opposed to stumbling across them by accident.) I appreciate your edits, since I am at a loss as to how one is expected to know the myriad of often bizarre links used on Wikipedia. For example, how does one determine that Dunreith, Indiana is linked as Dunreith? I never would have suspected that at all! Since I'm already spending a considerable amount of time researching and writing, and you seem far more knowledgeable about links, I'll let us continue as we have - me writing, you fixing - and perhaps by examining your edits I can pick up some tips. Thank you. TOM 14:50, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)

P.S.
Could you please define the term "dab"? You use it often when describing your edits, but since I have no idea what it means, I can't figure out what it is you're fixing. Thanks. TOM 15:23, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)

Another Question
Sorry all these thoughts didn't come to mind at once so I could have asked my questions in one entry. I can understand correcting a link if it takes you to a disambiguation page, thus necessitating two steps to get to the info you're seeking, but if it's a "redirect" and gets you where you want to go right away, why go to all the trouble of changing it? Better yet, why does Wikipedia seemingly have multiple links to the same place (such as "situation comedy" and "sitcom")? Thanks again! (I think I'm finished for now :) ) TOM 15:39, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC) X-Forwarded-For: 10.0.0.15

Votes by the Insane
This one has me amazed. The fellow Jacob Sager Weinstein nominated the article for VfD himself, saying that he wrote it before he knew about the policy against autobiography, and on VfD some people are voting "keep, you are notable." Geogre 20:03, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Concerning the prank article that was voted to be kept. I think it reflects some interesting attitudes that we as wikipedians exhibit. This is not to say that I do not and will never assume the validity of an article. I think of it as a fascinating inquiry into the nature of wikipedians.

I have wondered for awhile about how Wikipedia will evolve as wikipedians continue to use this resource. What form, being guided by current policy, will Wikipedia take on in the future? I think more and more experiments and inquiries into the nature of fellow wikipedians shall be undertaken in order to guide future policy. I think that I may not have made myself clear so any questions just direct to my talk page please. Jaberwocky6669 06:18, Dec 13, 2004 (UTC)

The Humungous Image Tagging Project
Hi. You've helped with the WikiProject Wiki Syntax, so I thought it worth alerting you to the latest and greatest of Wikipedia fixing project, User:Yann/Untagged Images, which is seeking to put copyright tags on all of the untagged images. There are probably, oh, thirty thousand or so to do (he said, reaching into the air for a large figure). But hey: they're images ... you'll get to see lots of random pretty pictures. That must be better than looking for at at and the the, non? You know you'll love it. best wishes --Tagishsimon (talk)

Tony Hatch (again)
Why hasn't my response to allegations of copyright infringement that I put on on the Talk Page for Tony Hatch been addressed yet? I thought I stated my case very succinctly. (By the way, the Spectorpop website still refuses to respond to my E-mail demanding an explanation for using my work without permission.) Thanks! TOM 17:41, Dec 9, 2004 (UTC)

Unverified images
Hi! Thanks for uploading the following image:


 * Image:Ivy-non.jpg

I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know its copyright status? (You can use if you release it under the GNU Free Documentation License,  if you claim fair use, etc.) If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know where you got the imagesand I'll tag them for you. Thanks so much. [[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk, automation script)]] 01:20, Dec 10, 2004 (UTC)

P.S. You can help tag other images at User:Yann/Untagged_Images. Thanks again.

Image:97SubaruImpreza-non.jpg
Hi! Thanks for uploading Image:97SubaruImpreza-non.jpg. I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know its copyright status? (You can use if you release it under the GFDL, or  if you claim fair use, etc.) If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know where you got the images and I'll tag them for you. Thanks so much,   – Quadell (talk) (help)   21:32, Dec 10, 2004 (UTC)

Classroom Blog = Wikipedia
Want to see some fun? Check out User:WD-40. Now, see his contributions. Notice how they're all talk pages? Check those user pages out. Guess what? Wikipedia is a classroom chat room now. Apparently, I "blocked my school," according to WD-40, from Wikipedia when I put in a 24 hour ban for an IP that hit my Tale of a Tub article with "I just found my branium isn't that interesting" in paragraph 12 or so (sneaky bullshit vandalism). Cute. Looks like we need a big can of Raid. Geogre 01:49, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * There were two vandals I banned for 24 hr. I assumed that WD-40 was talking about the one who mucked up the Tale article, as that seemed very much like their level of discourse, but there was one the day before from speedy deletes.  An article said, "I KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE! I WILL COME AND KILL YOU ALL IF THIS IS REMOVED."  That was bannable, too.  I suppose that's also a 12 year old's level of discourse.  (sigh)  I should introduce WD-40 to RickK. :-)  Or Lucky 6.9 when he's in one of his moods. :-)  I don't taunt them.  If I have to ban them, I just do.  If they're at autobanning level, they're pretty obvious, and they know what they're doing wrong, as they have to be trying to offend before I'll ban someone.  (I did do a 96 hr ban on someone, but that was for a much more serious offense.  That person moved User pages.  That's much more sophisticated and potentially much more damaging, so I felt like the hammer needed to fall with all possible force.)  Geogre 04:11, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Cirque revisited
Cirque du Soleil

Niteowlneils - I'm new so I'm sorry if this is either a) the wrong place to ask this; or b) a generally stupid question. I've been editing the sub-articles for the Cirque du Soleil page, adding some content under touring shows that were missing sub-pages and such. I can easily pick pictures off of Cirque's web site but I'm concerned that this would violate copyright. Can you give me some guidance? --RenaRF 22:38, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Oh poop Niteowl. I took descriptions from Cirque's site not only for Dralion but for others - I quoted in some (I think a  press release for Zumanity) but others were straight descriptions (slapping head).  I'll fix by paraphrasing forthwith.  --Rena 03:43, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Ok. Frankly, paraphrasing the Cirque descriptions didn't really work well - so here's what I went with.  I had a short intro sentence referring to the internal Cirque site and clearly referencing the official Cirque site and then clearly set up and then quoted the description directly.  I hope that is a solution - having seen all the touring shows, the Cirque descriptions are the only that do it justice.  Do you think that will work? ==Rena 04:19, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Transwiki deletion of recipes
Could you please update links when you delete pages that are moved elsewhere? This way there won't be red links to pages where there used to be information. Thanks, Dori | Talk 19:10, Dec 12, 2004 (UTC)

5' UTR
Heya, good job on 5' UTR! Always nice when people make RC patrolling not only useful but also educational. --fvw *  01:27, 2004 Dec 13 (UTC)

School tables
I received word from User talk:Geogre that you were going to create tables for U.S. elementary schools. It seems like a worthy goal, and I'm willing to undertake part of the work, as I have some skill in converting the table HTML into wiki markup using script. [[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk, automation script)]] 01:46, Dec 13, 2004 (UTC)


 * I finished creating a script to parse the data, and put up a new list at User:Niteowlneils/Rhode_Island_schools. [[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk, automation script)]] 04:22, Dec 13, 2004 (UTC)


 * It's really no trouble to program my script to output wiki table markup, which I'll be working on. One question: how should I name the school list articles?  Something like "List of public schools in Rhode Island", maybe?  Should I break the lists into chunks should they become unmanageable in one piece?  [[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk, automation script)]] 06:22, Dec 13, 2004 (UTC)

See User:Poccil/Schooltables.js for the script I used to parse the CSV files into school tables. [[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk, automation script)]] 06:45, Dec 13, 2004 (UTC)

Unspecified image
Hi! Thanks for uploading the following image:


 * Image:Dumpster-non.JPG

I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know its copyright status?

You can use : if you release it under the GNU Free Documentation License,

if you claim fair use, and so on. Click here for a list of the various tags.

If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know at my talk page where you got the image from, and I'll tag it for you. Thanks so much. Denni &#9775; 04:23, 2004 Dec 13 (UTC)

P.S. You can help tag other images at Untagged_Images. Thanks again.

School table project
How is the school table project going? Did you use my script at User:Poccil/Schooltables.js? I, however, didn't get much done because I had second thoughts on the feasibility of this project, and also because I'm not exactly sure how to title the generated pages for one state, for one county, and for more than one county. Respond at my talk page. [[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk, automation script)]] 20:48, Dec 16, 2004 (UTC)


 * The background-color suggestion for the tables could work, and maybe using different colors for the school names than for the other columns of the table. My script is already capable of converting the CSV data into mixed case.  For the article naming convention,  there are a few possibilities:
 * [State] schools or [List of] schools in [State]
 * [County, state] schools or [List of] schools in [County], [state]
 * For more than one county, I fear that the title would be too long, but here goes:
 * Schools in X, Y, and Z counties, [State]
 * As far as a "US Schools" WikiProject, are there other goals besides making lists of the schools?
 * [[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk, automation script)]] 05:17, Dec 17, 2004 (UTC)

Blood Brothers???
I'm not sure why you sent me a message regarding the articles about Blood Brothers and The Blood Brothers, since I had nothing to do with either one. The FinalWord 12:57, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Why delete Sunset & Vine?
The content was minimal but my knowledge is minimal. Whats the point of deleting it?

Response: Im sorry but that's just obtuse--an external link IS content, unless theres some rule about this Im missing. In the future someone with more extensive knowledge on the topic will fill that it. But deleting it now just gives that person more work to do. Congrats.

Are you giving me shit?
This 'cleanup' stuff on the Dower article I just pummeled into shape is over the edge--justify it or make an enemy.

I'm calmer now that I have a specific criticism. But I still vehemently disagree. There is perhaps one questionable sentence that I can see(being the last one), and I find your points regarding the use of the word 'finest' to be particularly vacuous. The world is "too ambiguous" for an encyclopeadia? It has a specific enough meaning in the sentence, I see no ambiguity at all. If you want more balance to the article, do the research and add it yourself--I am not currently in the mood to flesh out "opposing viewpoints" just because you think that makes the article more complete. I have no problem with further edits by those who have additional or more reliable knowlege on the subject, but I feel insulted by the haughty and quite unfounded "lacks NVOP" cop-out. The result now is far from perfect I will be the first to admit--but its far better than it was. And you didnt think it needed a special category then, did you? That just makes you a fair-weather wiki, I guess. Personally, I think the open community could do without it. 4:08 Shanghai Time Dec 20, 2004
 * {my reply is here, and has been reposted, with a rebuttal, here. Niteowlneils 02:20, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)}

Equal Protection Clause
Thanks so much for your comments, both at the fac article and at my own talk page. I'm going to try to deal with them in the near future. I've already created a John Bingham stub, as you can see. As for foreign impact, I really don't think there's been any. Why? Perhaps in part b/c the Clause is an artifact of American federalism, which, for better or for worse, is unique. Again, thank you for taking the time to read and to comment. Best, Hydriotaphia 06:30, Dec 20, 2004 (UTC)

Just in case you didn't see this on the featured article candidates page, I thought I'd add it here: "I think I've dealt with your objections. Please tell me if there's something else that you see as a problem. Thanks for your comments." Hydriotaphia 02:19, Dec 21, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for your support. Best, Hydriotaphia 02:35, Dec 21, 2004 (UTC)

And thank you for your editing, too&mdash;definite improvements! Hydriotaphia 03:33, Dec 21, 2004 (UTC)

Hey, Neils, would you mind taking a look at the affirmative action section of the article (Equal Protection Clause) and tell me what you think of it. I'm afraid that some libertarian troll's going to go apesh*t on me about it. But maybe I'm just being paranoid... Best, Hydriotaphia 00:50, Dec 25, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for your suggestions&mdash;I've taken them. "Invidious" is the right word; it has taken on a particularized meaning in legal discourse, and now signifies something like, "motivated by irrational animus." I've changed "uninvidious," which from a quick check of the literature appears to be a solecism, to "non-invidious." Hydriotaphia 07:22, Dec 25, 2004 (UTC)

Hi Neils, since you support the article, I'm going to go ahead and strike-through most of your previous comments, since I think I've taken care of the concerns you expressed. I hope you don't find this to be presumptuous; please de-strike them if you wish. Best, Hydriotaphia 08:57, Dec 25, 2004 (UTC)