User talk:Niteowlneils/RFTable

Proposed replacement template table for MediaWiki:Religiousfigures
This is my initial attempt to address the concerns raised regarding POV and offensiveness at the current template: MediaWiki:Religiousfigures, recently listed on VfD. Should have a title that is more neutral, like "MediaWiki:BeingNamesInSomeBeliefSystems" (my idea to work most likely to be used in belief system discussions in English-speaking countries makes title too long--may try to make a caption to that effect tomorrow). Niteowlneils 06:46, 13 Mar 2004 (UTC)
 * Background, since people will probably want to know what my potential biases may be: My parents took me to a very liberal Protestant church, but little of it "stuck". The key point that did register, was to respect all paths and practices that people use to understand the divine being(s) and/or concepts that help explain how and why we are here, and ideally provide comfort and enlightenment.


 * I see all "religions" (at least other than obvious cults, such as those that lead to mass suicide or murder) as human beings's attempts to understand/know/explain some of the ideas and factors that are so vast, they are beyond our understanding/knowledge/explanation.


 * I have a deep respect for any belief system that, whether thru doctrine or practice, promotes peace, rather than war. I also highly value any belief system that sees people as dependent upon, and just a part of, nature.  I also have the utmost respect for systems that promote "inner peace", as I believe that is an important step towards world peace.


 * Otherwise, study of "religion" has not been a major factor in my life. Despite my seeing value in most such beliefs, I have acted mostly as an agnostic.

Since I have not spent much time studying the various belief systems, I am sure my table still probably has issues. I would especially like to find entries for the four corners. One of the names I think might be worthy is Confucius (sp?). Also maybe Abraham, possibly with David. If there are similar names from some of the other popularly observed traditions, such as Taoism, Shinto, Sikhism, Baha'i, I'd be happy to add them. Bottom line, I want to be inclusive and respectful.

This table tries to address the complaint that the original table was too Judeo-Christian oriented. It also tries to represent the various beliefs in an unending circle, rather than being "ranked"--at least the best I could do using a straight HTML table--perhaps a JavaScript or graphics expert could replace the table's rectangular borders with circles. It also avoids trying to describe/define the beings named, avoiding such terms as "deity".

As for why I think it is important to try to "fix" the table, rather than simply delete it: As for whether or not the "comparisons" are valid, I don't think that should be a factor in the VfD consideration--the fact that the table has been created and used means people consider them valid. I'm not thrilled that Wikipedia contains almost as many references to "anal sex" as it does to "kindness" (nor am I happy that the LSD article was featured on the front page, despite being mostly Libertarian when it comes to what people do in their own homes), but that doesn't make any of it invalid.
 * 1 It keeps the issue more manageable by the community--if it is deleted, it will probably be recreated in the future; quite possibly in a more offensive form. I believe the current table reflects some "good faith" effort to be inclusive/non-offensive, even if it wasn't ultimately successful at those efforts.  Future versions may not even try to be unbiased.
 * 2 If not recreated, many individuals may create their own versions on specific pages, leading to inconsistencies, and, again, potentially more offensive versions.
 * 3 If there is an "acceptable" table, those changes will probably eventually migrate to those articles that used the "offensive" one. Without a proper model, those pages will probably never change.

PS If it has NOT been used, then sure, delete.

Niteowlneils 18:50, 13 Mar 2004 (UTC)

variation on the table
A variation--probably more useful for people comparing "major" religions.