User talk:Nitsansh/Archive 1

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2006 Australian Open
Regarding this, Henin-Hardenne is ranked #6 you know... see http://www.wtatour.com/rankings/singles_numeric.asp. pfctdayelise 04:32, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Justin Henin is playing in Australia. No women that would be seeded is absent, except for Alicia Molik (#28 last week) and Conchita Martinez (#33)Nitsansh 04:18, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
 * You're quite right. For some reason I thought she wasn't playing. My mistake! pfctdayelise 03:30, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Election template
Hi. Why did you recreate the template on the article rather than have it there? I reverted your changes since you failed to provide an edit summary as to why you did so. Thanks. El_C 22:45, 28 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Good work on the reformat, I also wanted to tackle that one. I also suggest to pull the list of smaller parties from the main article and add it to this template.--Shuki 06:30, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

2006 Winter Olympics
Thanks for finding a good solution to the Koreas! Sam Vimes 23:07, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Current and future sports events calendar
moved to Talk:Current and future sports events calendar

President of Israel
Please wait, until Katsav actually leaves office, before putting (2000-2007). GoodDay 21:16, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia doesn't add term ending year, until the person has actually left office. GoodDay 22:50, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Olympic Games Sailing template
Sorry, I didn't notice the addition of 2008, just the forced line break! Too aggressive with the "Undo" button. ;) Andrwsc 00:41, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Rugby union
I was wondering if you were interested in joining WikiProject Rugby union? You seem to contribute a lot to sports related articles, and we would greatly appreciate helping us out with some rugby union related content. Thanks a lot. - Shudda   talk  04:34, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

History of Cricket Template
Hi ,

Please do not remove the History of Cricket Template from anymore articles on the subject of Cricket. Thanks,  J a  s  rocks  (talk) 02:54, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

2008 Summer Olympics/Qualification
Hey Nits, why did you uncategorize the 2008 Summer Olympics/Qualification article? Probably because it only has archery in it yet, but I guess in that case it should be updated or deleted. SportsAddicted | discuss  08:52, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * There are specific articles for each sport qualification. An article for all the qualification is not necessary IMO.--Nitsansh 20:53, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * In that case it should be deleted instead of removing the category. SportsAddicted | discuss  23:15, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't have the authority to delete articles. If you can, go ahead and do it.--Nitsansh 23:23, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't either, but you can always put it forward as an AfD (apply for deletion) and people are going to debate about it. SportsAddicted | discuss  08:16, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Categories
Why would you revert all of the Jewish sportspeople categories links? That category has been around forever, the people are Jewish, they are sportspeople ... what is that all about?

I could revert all of them back, but rather than do that now, I thought I would discuss first.

You might have done the same. It would have been nice.

After you answer that, I have questions about your other reverts.

Thanks.

--Epeefleche 03:58, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Because there is specific category for Jewish people in that sport (IE Jewish tennis players), which is included in the category "Jewish sportspeople". There is no use to include articles in numerous categories, they should be categorized by a combination of profession and nationality (or religion in this case, which is a notable exception in Wikipedia). --Nitsansh 04:05, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi N. First, as I said before, I think that it is best for us to communicate first, rather than engage in mass RVs, and un-RVs.

Second, can you please point to the Wiki policy statement that supports your approach?

If you look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_sportspeople and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_American_sportspeople you will see that actual practice has been for people to be included both under the category and the subcategory.

If you believe that that is a violation of Wiki policy, I would be interested if you would direct me to the basis for that view.

Thanks. --Epeefleche 04:13, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

also ... you deleted mention in the body of at least one bio of the fact that the person was Jewish. Please RV all such deletions, or let me know why you do not wish to do so. Thanks. --Epeefleche 04:16, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * At least here in Israel, we don't mention that a Israeli person is Jewish, because the majority of Israelis are Jewish... it is usually mentioned when a person is not Jewish...--Nitsansh 04:23, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Besides... I don't see the obsession to categorize people as Jewish, unless it's relevant to their biography...--Nitsansh 04:25, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Where nearly a quarter of the people are not Jewish (that's not insignificant -- and the percentage is rising), it does not make sense to treat it as though all people are Jewish.

By the way, this article may interest you ... .... "According to Central Bureau of Statistics data ... the population of the State of Israel at the end of 2005 was comprised of 6,990,700 people, of which 5,313,800 were Jewish (76 percent of the entire population), and 1,377,100 were Arab (19.7 percent)....  The data also showed that since 2000, the Jewish population has decreased by 1.8 percent, while the Muslim population has increased during the past five years by 1.1 to 1,140,600."

And, derech agav, I lived in Israel as well.

If you want to do that in the Hebrew Wikipedia, go ahead.

If you don't want to categorize people as Jewish, don't, but that is no reason for you to RV all of my changes, which are consistent with how Wiki has presented Jewish athletes, etc., forever.

If you can point to something in Wiki policy, I would be happy to look at it, but otherwise please RV all of your reverts of my work.

Thanks.

L'hitraot.

--Epeefleche 04:42, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

And as far as the obsession with categorizing Jewish athletes as Jewish, these may interest you ... "Jewish Sports Legends" is a book that one can find at. The International Jewish Sports Hall of Fame Jewishsports.net bios can be found at. Jews in Sports bios can be found at. National Jewish Sports Hall of Fame bios can be found at. Jews in the Olympics can be found at and medalists can be found at. The Baltimore Jewish Times runs articles on Jewish athletes:. The Holocaust Museum runs articles on Jewish athletes in the Holocaust: and. "From the Ghetto To The Games: Jewish Athletes in Hungary" focuses on certain Jewish athletes. --Epeefleche 04:53, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Epeefleche, please go to Categorization and browse to "Guidelines" point (3) and you will see Nitsansh is right about categories and subcats. Cheers, SportsAddicted | discuss  08:27, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * 1) About the "obsession" thing... that is my personal opinion and I won't argue on that any further...
 * 2) Even though there is a significant number of non-Jewish people in Israel, I don't think it makes sense to make a category for "Jewish Israelis" or "Israeli Jews", unless it's a commom practice on Wikipedia to categorize people of the predominant ethnic group in other countries (do we have a category for "Anglo-Saxon English" for example?)
 * 3) As SportsAddicted pointed out, the general rule in Wikipedia is to list people in the most specific sub-categories that exist, and not in their parent categories. The common practice for sportspeople is to list them in the combined category of nationality and specific sport. If there is a category of Jewish sportspeople of specific nationality it's OK to list them there as well (see Category: Jewish American sportspeople. I don't think it would be right to place Jewish sportspeople in Category: Jewish sportspeople, they should be in the sub-category Jewish in X sport, and if no such category exist it should be created.--Nitsansh 11:25, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

FIS Nordic World Ski Championships 2007
FYI. I adjusted the championship link from 2007 FIS Nordic World Ski Championships to FIS Nordic World Ski Championships 2007. This was also done for each article of the FIS Nordic World Ski Championships, the main page of this article and the template as well. The only place I have not done this is the iw links, but you can do this if want to assist. Please advise. Chris 15:19, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Stub
May I suggest that you read this page and understand that the creation of stub articles pending future development is both legitimate and normal on Wikipedia. --BlackJack | talk page 20:39, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I read... and found this: "When you write a stub article, it is important to bear in mind that its main interest is to be expanded, and that thus it ideally contains enough information to give a basis for other editors to expand upon. The key here is to provide adequate context; the extreme case of a very short article with little or no context to allow expansion is a criterion under which articles may be speedily deleted."--Nitsansh 20:54, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


 * And it follows that a stub which contains the information that the New Zealand cricket team has indeed toured Australia in the 2006-07 season can be expanded upon by the members of WikiProject Cricket. Your attempted deletion has been removed by an admin.  You cannot expect to delete an article containing facts that are both verifiable and notable.  The creation of stub articles with minimal information to begin with is quite acceptable especially as my articles all contain verifiable sources in both book and internet form and they are all properly categorised including the appropriate cricket stub category.
 * Finally, if you examine the cricket project you will find that it has a large and active membership which does improve and expand its articles as a matter of course. We are always mounting campaigns to develop the stubs: see WT:CRIC.  --BlackJack | talk page 21:22, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Check here: --Nitsansh 23:03, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I do expect to delete an article about a so-called fact that is not verifiable because it doesn't exist!! There is no tour of New Zealand in Australia in 2006-07!!

calendar of future events
I can't find the page where all the future events are listed... --Nitsansh 10:40, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The already stored events can be found at Calendar of current and future sports events/HS, while the others I collect from sites day by day via the sites listed at User:SportsAddicted/NextUp. Anyways, I was a few days away and have to see wether I can keep up with keeping it this detailed. Otherwise we should continue with only the bigger events or so. What do you think? SportsAddicted | discuss  08:59, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

FIS Nordic World Ski Championships 2007, part 2
Thank you for your help on the FIS Nordic World Ski Championships 2007 article with your contribution. I greatly appreciate it. Chris 02:59, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Men's NCAA
Hello. When adding the Men’s' NCAA basketball to the Current events/sports, it would be appreciated if you could follow the format of putting a space between the ranking and the college and also if you would do the proper wikilink for the team. This would greatly reduce the rework required in that section. --After Midnight 0001 01:32, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I know it wasn't done properly, but this time I didn't have the time required for this. I don't know all the exact links (Universities full names or nicknames, locations, venues, etc.) and it takes me lot of time to search for them with so many key matches on the schedule (this is one of the busiest days of the season, with all the major tournaments in action and many top-25 teams play their first match in the tournament). Of course, the more one editor does leaves less work for others, but it's much better than nothing, isn't it? The essential info is all in, and only the proper links are not done yet.--Nitsansh 01:45, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Olympic Qualification Criteria for Gymnastics
Dear Nitsansh, can You please help me with finding exact info about Olympic qualification criteria for gymnastics disciplines? In Your contributions You only added reference link to the FIG website, and not directly to any relevant document which I am looking for. Thanks, Okino 15:35, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Figure Skating
Hello, Nitsansh. I noticed you've edited figure skating articles. I would like to invite you to join WikiProject Figure Skating. We're a group of editors working together to improve figure skating articles and coverage on Wikipedia. I hope you consider joining! Kolindigo 00:37, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Basketball 1952
Hi! I saw, that you have made some create edits on Basketball at the 1952 Summer Olympics for the Israeli squad! So I would like to ask you, if you have some more information about the players? I would like to start articles for all of them like I have done it e.g. for Bill Coulthard. I think, that at least the date of birth is necessary to start an article...

Do you also have some more info about the names? E.g. Reuben Perach or Reuben Fecher-Perach. What is his birth name? And under which name he competed at the 1952 Olympics? Maybe he was born Reuben Fecher and changed his name to Reuben Perach and competed also only under the name Reuben Perach?

Please let me know if you are interested in creating these articles, because I have some more questions. Kind regards and :) Doma-w (talk) 15:14, 19 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Since this is ancient history there is little info available on many of these players... the most famous of these is Ralf Klein, who is much better known for his coaching carreer...

The issue of names is quite confusing... as most, if not all, players were not born in Israel (as were most Israelis at that time), their original names were in their native language. There was a government directive at that time that Israeli Olimpians should change their names to Hebrew names, therefor the official names were in Hebrew (except for several athletes who got away from this order, for example Shneior). Some athletes continued to use their Hebrew name after the Olympics, but others didn't and were known by their original names throughout their life. I decided that in case of double names, the common name comes first, whether it's Hebrew or not. So it's Rolf Klein-Ram but Shimon Shelah-Schmuckler. Since my earliest sources on Israeli sport are from the 1970s, it's hard to tell what were the names at the time of the Olympics. For example... Moshe Daniel is the common name for one basketball player, but in the Olympic record his name is Moshe Daniel Levy, and it's unclear which is first and last names...--Nitsansh (talk) 14:53, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Many thanks for your reply. Yes I know, the issue of names for the sportspeople from Israel is confusing. And I do not speak Hebrew... I would like to say, that the official names were the names shown in the official report for this Games? But my main problem is, that I do not believe that e.g. Shimon Shelah-Schmuckler has ever had this name. I think he was either called Shimon Shelah or Shimon Schmuckler. And it looks like, that Shimon Schmuckler (of German origin?) was his birth name and Shimon Shelah was his Hebrew name? But we do not know and so I think that it is up to now ok to write both names for these players. It's a pity, that we do not have more info... Kind regards Doma-w (talk) 16:16, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
 * As I said... there was a directive from prime-minister David Ben Guryon that Olympic athletes should have Hebrew names, and so many of the athletes chose new names. If you check the index of the Olympic report, you'll find many names with the official (Hebrew) name followed by the original name in brackets, such as Shelah (Schmuckler), Shimon... in some cases, athletes apparently liked their new names and continued to use them afterwards, and Shelah is one of these... so in the records of the Israeli NOC he is listed as Shimon Shelah and very few people nowadays know his original name...

On the other hand, there are athletes who continued to use their original names, and the Hebrew name they were given for the Olympics remain no more than an anecdote in their biography... for example, the person whose original name was Rolf Klein was given the name Raphael Ram, but everybody in Israel refer to him as Ralf Klein... (BTW, the meaning of Klein in German is small, but Ram in Hebrew is the opposite - high...)--Nitsansh (talk) 16:38, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


 * This all is very interesting! Do you think we can start at least some articles for these sportspeople? Maybe we can start with Ralf Klein. At least we can explain his name and add his year of birth and his stats from the 1952 Olympic tournament. Maybe you have some more info about his coaching carreer? Do you speak Hebrew? So you can also add his name in Hebrew language? Kind regards Doma-w (talk) 17:20, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Discussion to be continued at Talk: Basketball at the 1952 Summer Olympics

Ambush
Are you sure of this ?  Both Gelber and Karsh talk about Kabri... Thank you, Ceedjee (talk) 19:58, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes. It is the "Yehiam convoy" that was attacked near Kabri. The nearest city is Nahariya, not Haifa.--Nitsansh (talk) 22:24, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok. Thank you ! Ceedjee (talk) 07:49, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Latrun
You wrote on a talk page Latrun had been attacked in October. Do you have a reference for this ? I thought the last assault was on July 18 just after the end of the 10 days campaigns. Best Regards, Ceedjee (talk) 08:00, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

CfD nomination of Category:2007 U.S. Open
I have nominated 2007 u.s. open for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you. After Midnight 0001 23:02, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Olympic navigation templates
The navigation templates such as use the IOC's organization by continent, not a purely geographic one, and Isreal is a member of European Olympic Committees, so that's why it is grouped under "Europe". Thanks — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 19:43, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Israel was a member of Asia Olympic council at least until 1978 (the last time it participated in the Asian Games), so for the Olympics up to 1976 it should belong to Asia. Israel wasn't admitted to European sport organizations until the early 1990s, so you may argue where to place it in the 1980s...--Nitsansh (talk) 19:47, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, ok! Then your edits make sense and I apologize for reverting them.  I guess we'll need to fidn a source for when they were admitted to EOC, but if the '78 Asian Games were their last, then I presume 1984 is the right starting point for Europe.  — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 19:51, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, the last time Israel participated in the Asian Games was in Teheran 1974. Officially, Israel was a member of Asian Games Federation until 1981, when the Federation was re-incorporated as the Olympic Council of Asia, which was established in November 1981.--Nitsansh (talk) 20:10, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * So it looks like grouping the nation under Asia through the 1976 Games and Europe from 1984 onwards is the most sensible. Thanks for the information. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 20:13, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It would be historically right not to include Israel in any Olympic continental organization from 1981 to 1993, but I won't insist on that... BTW, if my memory serves me well, EOC wasn't created until the late 1980s or early 1990s.--Nitsansh (talk) 20:24, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I stand corrected. AENOC, as EOC was then known, was founded in 1975. However, the first all-European competition organized by AENOC was the inaugural EYOD in 1991. Israel was admitted as full member of EOC in 1994, but Israelis participated in European championships in many sports several years earlier. --Nitsansh (talk) 21:13, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I suppose we could go back to an earlier version of those navboxes, where they aren't grouped by "IOC continent", such as this revision for 1976, but I found those navboxes to be too awkward, as a big mass of text. The "cutoff" for one big list vs. continental groupings is between 1948 and 1952, and that was somewhat arbitrary based on number of names in the list.  I suppose we could move the cutoff to a later year, per when OCA, EOC, etc. were initially formed.  What do you think?  — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 21:18, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Most continental organizations date back to the 50s or 60s. Asian Games Federation (AGF) was established in 1951, and organized the first Asian Games the same year. PASO was established in 1951 and organized the first Pan American Games the same year. SCAS was established in 1962 and organized the first African Games in 1965. Pan European Sports Council, a predecessor of ANEOC, was established in 1967. Europe may be the last continent to organize, presumably since European national commitees didn't see the need for European Games (and they still don't have such games for senior athletes!). As of 1975, there wasn't yet an Oceania sports organization.--Nitsansh (talk) 21:43, 22 July 2008 (UTC)