User talk:Nousernamesleft/desk/qin

Do either of you (AO and biblio) have any books relating to the subject. Biblio said he does, but I'm not sure which ones. I have the following two: Nousernamesleft (talk) 02:10, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The Early Chinese Empires: Qin and Han by Mark Edward Lewis
 * China: Its History and Culture by W. Scott Morton
 * I don't believe I have any (maybe a few that mention it, though), but I'll search Google Books for some appropriate sources, and list them here. · AndonicO  Engage. 09:34, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm adding in a few now; you'll probably need to use the search function to find "Qin." I've not looked around very thoroughly, though, so I expect to find a few more "on topic" books, as well. · AndonicO  Engage. 13:04, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks - I forgot about Google Books. I'll go ring up biblio now... Nousernamesleft (talk) 21:01, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm still trying to look for my books. I have these books right now (the latter two I've checked out from my library):
 * Great Ages of Man: Ancient China by Edward Schafer.
 * The Establishment of the Han Empire and Imperial China by Grant Hardy and Anne Behnke Kinney (they deal some with the Qin dynasty overall, but mostly with its downfall).
 * Lost Civilizations: China's Buried Kingdoms by Time-Life Books.

I think I may also have some Chinese materials lying around at home. My Chinese is not the best though, so I'm not sure how helpful they will be to me.  bibliomaniac 1  5  20:21, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, no point waiting - open them and start writing! Nousernamesleft (talk) 18:14, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * When I write, it would probably be best if either of you went through the text and fact-checked... it's possible I'm not interpreting the sources correctly (too many sources, and not enough info in each). · AndonicO  Engage. 19:47, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Will do. I'm writing entirely off of two sources. ;) Nousernamesleft (talk) 20:30, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Huizhou.
Random fact I found: first settlers in Huizhou were Qin (Berliner, p. 6). I'm not sure if we'll be needing that or not. · AndonicO  Engage. 00:39, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, something really weird: that book has the same page as pages 6, 14, 18, and 24. Odd. · AndonicO  Engage. 00:40, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Another random fact: Zheng assumed the Qin throne in 245 BC, at the age of 13 (Borthwick, p. 9). · AndonicO  Engage. 02:52, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Go ahead and add the second one to the article - not sure about the first, I'll think about that. Nousernamesleft (talk) 16:51, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, the second is true, but that was when he became king of the 'state of Qin. He became ruler of the dynasty when he was 38 or so.  bibliomaniac 1  5  23:04, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Modified accordingly, I think. Nousernamesleft (talk) 02:47, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Qin Shihuangdi
Why are we writing his name as "Qin Shihuangdi"? I think that we should use "Qin Shihuang" instead because it's rare for a Chinese name to have 4 characters and it is the name favored by the Chinese. In Sima Qian's Shiji he also refers to him as Qin Shihuang.  bibliomaniac 1  5  15:48, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * My text refers to him as "Qin Shihuang Di". "Di" means emperor, I think, and it would be inappropriate to leave it out. Nousernamesleft (talk) 16:50, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It's common for western books to refer to him that way. In any case, "huang" and "di" both mean emperor, but the "di" was dropped later to sound less awkward.  bibliomaniac 1  5  18:46, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Go ahead and change it you like, then. Nousernamesleft (talk) 01:59, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

A note
When using short refs, could you two add years? While it's technically not required if there's not more than one work by the author, most of the refs already have years, and consistency would be nice. Nousernamesleft (talk) 00:47, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't know; I thought the correct way was just the author and page number (at least, according to Nishkid)... why use years if it's somewhat unimportant, and is already further down? · AndonicO  Engage. 01:47, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with Andonic. Unless the author in question has multiple works cited, I think it would be best to eschew them.  bibliomaniac 1  5  01:54, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Given that all the references already have the year, though, couldn't you just do it this once for consistency? Nousernamesleft (talk) 01:58, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Given that you just added all the years, you mean? :P I don't know, I prefer without years, but if there's a good reason for them? · AndonicO  Engage. 02:05, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Ha, well, I wouldn't want my work to go to nothing! Actually, even before that, most of the references had years (mostly because I had added most of the references myself :P)... I really can't see a reason to change them. Nousernamesleft (talk) 02:45, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, okay, let's keep them with years; if it bothers anyone at FAC, though, expect us to blame it on you. ;) · AndonicO  Engage. 09:10, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I've been through three FACs with that format already (two unsuccessful, I'm afraid, though), and no one has complained about the years. Nousernamesleft (talk) 17:32, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Great wall/Terracotta structures
Doesn't that really belong in the "Architecture" section? Nousernamesleft (talk) 23:38, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess... somewhat complicated, though, because the wall was also a defense-oriented structure, and the Terracotta army was modeled after his army. · AndonicO  Engage. 23:56, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Where to put?
Don't know where to fit this in:
 * Zheng survived three assassination attempts. (Borthwick, pp. 9-10) Note: Gbooks no longer has page 9 as a source. · AndonicO  Engage. 15:23, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The early Han Dynasty emperors continued suppressing Confucianism and supporting Legalism. (Borthwick, p. 17). Tell me where and I'll add it in. · AndonicO  Engage. 15:40, 18 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The former should probably be put in a new paragraph in fall from power, since his assassination attempts made him paranoid about finding immortality. The latter would probably be best in "Philosophy and literature."  bibliomaniac 1  5  15:48, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Alright, I'll add that in in a second. Both added. Also, here's another:


 * The earliest imperial capital was that of the Qin, which was located at Xianyang, in an area known as Guannei. This region was fertile at the time, and irrigation and transportation canal systems had been constructed [constructed is probably poor word choice in this case, any suggestions?]. The Han and Tang Dynasty capitals were also located in Guannei, near Xianyang. · AndonicO  Engage. 16:08, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Are you sure about that? I'm sure each dynasty had its own imperial capital. Also, you might want to add that it's called Xi'an now. In the Qin dynasty, it was called Xianyang, which is now in the Xi'an region. In the Han dynasty, it was renamed Chang'an. When the Tang dynasty started, they sited their capital near the region and named it Daxing, only to rename it back to Chang'an. It was finally named Xi'an in the Ming dynasty. Guannei is now in modern-day Shaanxi.  bibliomaniac 1  5  18:57, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You could footnote (y'know, the 'ref group="note"' thing?) biblio's ideas. I don't quite understand what you're saying in your first sentence, biblio. Nousernamesleft (talk) 21:18, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Right, sorry, forgot the source: Borthwick, p. 46. · AndonicO  Engage. 18:12, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Hm, interesting. I'm working on the drafts of a few of the remaining sections in txt files right now, so I probably won't be very active for a few days. Nousernamesleft (talk) 00:34, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay; I'm going to start checking the next book for info. · AndonicO  Engage. 12:57, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry
I haven't been working on this lately because of other things. As soon as the FAC is over, though, I'll get back to work! Nousernamesleft (talk) 20:24, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hey, err, how's this going? Still need a bit of help? I can probably copyedit... won't have time to keep digging through sources, though. · AndonicO  Engage. 01:34, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I've been delayed again and again... sorry for not responding here sooner. I'm starting this now, though - I'm finally to it on my to-do list. Nousernamesleft (talk) 21:55, 23 September 2008 (UTC)