User talk:Ocfootballknut

College football Barnstar

 * Well deserved. Thank you for the recent work on such programs as Fresno State and Pacific. Cake  (talk) 15:25, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'm having fun! About 205 articles created ... I have about 75 left on my current "to do" list, but that seems to expand regularly! Ocfootballknut (talk) 23:19, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
 * If my research is correct, then the Loyola Marymount Lions played in the first game in the state, yet have no pages. Somebody should fix that wink wink nudge. Cake  (talk) 05:11, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
 * There's another 100 or so on my second priority list right now, mostly in the 1920s / 1930s. Then I have a third priority list brewing. Loyola (St. Vincents) might make the tertiary list. Ocfootballknut (talk) 06:41, 4 February 2017 (UTC)


 * I just noticed all the work you've been doing. My first reaction is "Wow!"  My second reaction is, "Great work, thanks!"  Please keep it up. Your work fits in perfectly with WikiProject College football/Season articles campaign.  If you wish to adopt any other programs, please have at it. Cbl62 (talk) 02:07, 11 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I edited the 'season article campaign' page to include the 30 I've done for San Jose State and the 19 I've done for Long Beach State. As of now, I have the data for San Diego State for every year back to 1939, Fresno State every year back to 1939, San Jose State (the 1940's), and Long Beach State (all missing years). It's just a matter of getting to them. Ocfootballknut (talk) 02:47, 11 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi, Ocfootballknut! I've been watching all of the work you've been putting into the Long Beach State football season articles; thanks for your contributions, they are very much appreciated! I see you appear to be interested in other California teams, too. If you're interested, there are plenty more football season articles that need to be created to fill out places like Template:Cal State Fullerton Titans football navbox, Template:Pacific Tigers football navbox, Template:Santa Clara Broncos football navbox, etc. More contributors who have expertise in one specific area or state is always a valuable addition to the project. Feel free to check out WikiProject College football, too, to "join the party," so to speak, with all of the folks over there. I see you've already had interactions with Jweiss and Cbl62; they're two of the best and most knowledgeable college football editors out there, and if you have any questions about sources, formatting, etc, they'll be sure to steer you right. Thanks, and happy editing! Ejgreen77 (talk) 06:19, 13 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I've got all the years of Cal State Long Beach done, but it turns out I have to add 12 NFL draftees because of an error in my source data report. Working on Fresno State (back to 1939), San Diego State (all years), San Jose State (1939-1949 & 1969-1998), and just decided to do part of Cal Poly (1946-1968) as well. That's about 80 more articles to create. Cal State Fullerton would be tough. They didn't really have a home stadium, but I don't live far from there and maybe they have some source data at their Athletic Department or library. We'll see what happens when I get done with the ones I'm working on. My goal is to get as much as I can for San Diego State / Cal State Long Beach and whoever else was in their conference over the years (I'm an alumnus of both schools). So there's a lot of possibilities left. Ocfootballknut (talk) 08:28, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

What I'm Working On For College Football
(updated 4/11/2018)

As of today, I've completed my original project to make there are articles for practically every year in the college football history for all University of California schools, all California State University schools, and a few California private schools that played in the same conference as the public schools. Included are the conference standings for any season that's missing.

Cal State Schools:


 * Cal Poly (San Luis Obispo): 84 seasons created (DONE)
 * Cal Poly Pomona / San Dimas: 36 seasons created (DONE)
 * Cal State Fullerton: 23 seasons created (DONE)
 * Cal State Hayward / East Bay: still in work (DONE)
 * Cal State Long Beach: 33 seasons created (DONE)
 * Cal State Los Angeles: 27 seasons created (DONE)
 * Cal State Northridge / Valley State: 40 seasons created (DONE)
 * Chico State: 74 seasons created (DONE)
 * Fresno State: 69 seasons created (DONE)
 * Humboldt State: 89 seasons created (DONE)
 * Sacramento State: 57 seasons created (DONE)
 * San Diego State: 72 seasons created (DONE)
 * San Francisco State: 62 seasons created (DONE)
 * San Jose State: 71 seasons created (DONE)
 * Sonoma State: 19 seasons created (DONE)

Private California Schools:


 * Pacific: 60 seasons created (DONE)
 * Pepperdine: 14 seasons created (DONE)
 * Santa Clara: 11 seasons created (DONE)

UC Schools:


 * UC Riverside: 21 seasons created (DONE)
 * UC Santa Barbara: 45 seasons created (DONE)
 * UC Davis: 91 seasons created (DONE)

Other college football things completed:


 * 3 Bowl games
 * 177 yearly conference standings templates for conferences which included California schools
 * 241 yearly conference standings for I-AA, FCS, which completed that for its entire history!
 * 86 yearly poll articles (Small college/College division, Division II, Division I-AA, FCS)
 * 9 team Navbox's
 * 25 lists (head coaches, draftees, seasons)
 * 1 team page rewrite Humboldt State Lumberjacks football

Ocfootballknut (talk) 16:26, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

Dude Hey there
You are out of control a tad over-zealous. Didn't someone at CFB project talk about a WP:TBAN? - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 02:37, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Mnnlaxer, what's the problem here? Jweiss11 (talk) 03:15, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Creating hundreds of articles that aren't notable and violate WP:NSEASONS. I was refering to Bagumba's statement, "Of course, anyone who regularly mass creates non-notable articles risks being hit with a WP:TBAN." - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 04:49, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
 * With the demise/paring down of cfbfootballwarehouse.com, there is no longer anything on-line where you can find out what happened at schools other than the top D-I. But with about 750,000 students enrolled in the UC schools & Cal State schools, and about 5 million living alumni, it's hard for me to say that their history is not notable. I don't plan on going beyond that, so definitely not "out of control" ... there's a precise plan. And you notice, for example, that ALL of my articles have references and NONE contain statistics other than scores of games. So I definitely comply with the WP:NSEASONS guidance: "Wikipedia is not a stats directory". WP:NSEASONS then goes on to say "In cases where the individual season notability is insufficient for an article, multiple seasons may be grouped together in a single article. This grouping might be based on head coaches, conference affiliation, or any other reasonable standard that results in sufficient coverage for the period to warrant an article" If the consensus is that I need to combine some of these articles, so be it. Give me specific consensus guidance and a good example of a combined years article (with navbox links to the sections of the article) to use, and I'll see what I need to do. By the way, I find it amazing that somebody would suggest a ban as a first step, and before they even commented to me about what I'm theoretically doing wrong and how to fix it !! Ocfootballknut (talk) 05:36, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply. I apologize, "out of control" and mentioning the topic ban was a bit much. Obviously the number of students and alumni have nothing to do with notability of the schools' football seasons. Having a precise plan is the basic problem. I would much prefer you willy nilly create a season article here and there when it is warranted, rather than create them all according to a plan. I don't understand why you think a page would have to go beyond reporting scores to be a stats directory. The point is basically tables vs. prose. Your articles are mostly tables. If you are interested in a consensus guidance, head over to Wikipedia talk:Notability and ask what you should do with the Chico State articles. Thanks. - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 05:58, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
 * In creating these articles, I've referenced thousands of other yearly articles. The number I've come across with less information than I am including is mind-numbing. And it doesn't seem to be related to the "size" or "importance" of the school. At last count I've included links to almost 3,000 newpaper articles and included 790 NFL draftees or free agents. And I've had great, positive correspondence with several Sports Information Directors and even one head coach gave me encouragement! Be that as it may, if you're looking for me to lessen the number of articles, here's a sample that I created that might work yet still preserves what I'm trying to do. I only included two years for now, but it would contain all nine years that head coach was there. User:Ocfootballknut/sandbox/1991–1999 Humboldt State Lumberjacks football team Not sure how "cfb link" would be able to point to the individual sections. Maybe with redirects for the individual years? Obviously I'd have to edit the Navboxes the same way. I've done that with a sample Navbox that's linked to the sample article. Ocfootballknut (talk) 21:26, 21 November 2017 (UTC) Today's motto: Life is good, as long as you keep calm and don't let the bullies win.

Ocfootballknut, don't do the grouped years thing. We used to have them for a lot of the major programs and did away with them in favor a consistent yearly article approach. What you are doing is fine. Jweiss11 (talk) 04:59, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, there is no difference between that multiple-year article and the current single season ones. The point of grouping seasons is to increase the amount of prose in the article. If organized around coaches, you can usually get significant and non-routine coverage of the program when coaches are hired and fired. - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 05:36, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
 * This should be discussed at WikiProject College football. Jweiss11 (talk) 05:40, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
 * It should. But I don't agree that creating these Humboldt State articles is fine. I would hope CFB project members would not grant automatic notability to single seasons of D-II programs. Cfb62's statement that college football is very different than other sports, so WP:SEASONS doesn't apply, certainly shouldn't apply to D-II. And the team article is a joke. Don't you think creating a decent team article is way more important than a bunch of table-based season articles? - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 05:46, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Completely concur on the Humboldt State team article. Once I'm done with my research there I'll be more than happy to take a shot at improving that. It's a unique program in the Cal State / UC systems. All the other Cal State / UC schools either dropped football because of Title IX and/or financial issues, or moved to D-I. Humboldt chose D-II and survives to this day. Ocfootballknut (talk) 16:28, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Ok, took a shot at the Humboldt State team article. I might have gone a little overboard... Ocfootballknut (talk) 08:17, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Happy holidays!
What better way to celebrate the holidays (and bowl season) than "Touchdown Jesus"! Best wishes for a happy and healthy 2018! Cbl62 (talk) 18:23, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Santa Clara and St. Mary's
Hey, OC -- It occurs to me that, with your interest in the history of college football in California, we may have a common interest in building out coverage of at least a couple teams. As I'm sure you know, Santa Clara and Saint Mary's were both powerhouses of college football during the 1930s and 1940s. I've started a few articles about these teams (e.g., 1936, 1937, 1939, 1941, 1949 Santa Clara, 1934, 1938, 1945 Saint Mary's), but have just scratched the surface. Any interest in working together on one or both of these programs? Cbl62 (talk) 16:05, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Cbl62 Thanks for the note. I currently have 23 Cal State Hayward, 86 Humboldt State, and 23 more UC Davis yearly summaries to complete. So I have some work left to do. I was waiting for some information from the SID at UC Davis before moving forward with the rest of theirs and I got that yesterday. So that's another couple of months work, then I have a couple of months I won't be able to work on anything. So it will be mid-June before I can even consider starting anything new.Ocfootballknut (talk) 06:30, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

Columbia Football Association: NAIA or NCAA
Ocfootballknut, 1997 Humboldt State Lumberjacks football team states that the team was a member of Columbia Football Association and played at the NCAA Division II level. However the Columbia Football Association article suggests the conference was always affiliated with the NAIA. You also categorized the Columbia Football Association standings templates as NAIA. Do you know which is correct. NAIA or NCAA? Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 22:25, 10 March 2018 (UTC)


 * JWeiss11, interesting question. There is no question they were in Division II during their years in the NCAC (just prior to the CFA). And they've been in Division II as part of the GNAC (since the CFA folded after the 2000 season). The champion of the CFA played in the NAIA playoffs. I'm not really familiar with the NAIA, but I guess if you play in an NAIA conference that would mean you're an NAIA Team those years, even though you're playing a mix of NAIA and DII schools. Ocfootballknut (talk) 01:27, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Humboldt State Lumberjacks season article
Ocfootballknut, there is now an article for Bud Van Deren, so you should wikilink to it. Also, are you still putting notes in the wrong place. They should go after the period if they are at the end of the sentence. Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 04:21, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Too funny. I was looking at my draft workspace and it looked right and was wondering what was going on. Then I noticed you edited my draft article! I never thought anybody would (or even could!) do that. Interesting. Ocfootballknut (talk) 04:38, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, not the first time I've edited your draft workspace. I've made similar edits in the hopes of little systemic corrections making the next article you churn out! Jweiss11 (talk) 04:44, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, only 52 articles left (all Humboldt State) on my "to do" list, then about 500 references to add to various articles, but then I'm done until mid-late June.Ocfootballknut (talk) 05:07, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for all your work. Enjoy the wiki-break! Jweiss11 (talk) 00:22, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

"Team players in the NFL"
Makes me wince every time I see the above phrasing in an article. Three reasons: (a) it's ungrammatical, (b) its ambiguous (does it refer to "team players" or players from the team that is the subject of the article?), and (c) it's not even descriptive of the content (the content is a list of players from the subject team who were selected "in the NFL draft", not a list of players who went on to play "in the NFL"). Are you willing to reconsider it? How about "NFL Draft"? Or "Players selected in the NFL Draft"? Cbl62 (talk) 02:22, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
 * This is one of those things Ocfootballknut inherited from other season articles that he did didn't create and predate his work of late, but I agree with Cbl62's sentiments. Jweiss11 (talk) 02:30, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I understand that OC inherited it, but the phrasing is really an abomination. I've tried over the years to eradicate it where I come across it. A large majority of the roughly 700 articles that still use it are OC's. Cbl62 (talk) 03:03, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
 * For all of my articles, the section includes BOTH players which were selected in the NFL draft AND those who weren't drafted but played in the NFL if they exist. See 1973 San Diego State Aztecs football team as an example. In fact, reference 17 on that page is a link to a listing of ALL alumni, not just the draftees. One of the difficulties I encountered was getting the correct last college year for some of the undrafted players. The hardest part was the replacement players in the strike year, as some of those players had left college several years before they played in the NFL. For SDSU alone I've included more than 50 undrafted players, 30 for Fresno State (example: 1975 Fresno State Bulldogs football team, 40 for San Jose State example: 1977 San Jose State Spartans football team, etc. So call it "Players who finished their career at this school in this particular year who were either drafted by the NFL or who went on to play in the NFL at some future point". Ocfootballknut (talk) 03:07, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
 * P.S. Maybe the title should simply be "NFL Players" Ocfootballknut (talk) 03:36, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
 * P.P.S. Here's some examples from major colleges:

Ocfootballknut (talk) 03:54, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
 * 2006 USC Trojans football team Section: 2006 Team Players in the NFL (Just a list of names, no draft information, includes free agents)
 * 2006 Notre Dame Fighting Irish football team Section: NFL Draft (Text only, includes free agents)
 * 2009 Michigan Wolverines football team Section: 2010 NFL Draft (Table plus text, includes free agents)
 * 2009 Penn State Nittany Lions football team Section: NFL Draft (Table, does NOT include free agents)
 * You are right that there is no real consistency across season articles. In my "perfect world" article, there would be a section covering players from the team who went on to play professional football. NFL is actually under-inclusive since it excludes the Canadian Football League, the pre-merger American Football League, the All-America Football Conference, and lesser leagues such as the USFL, the World Football League, or the Arena Football League.  My "perfect world" section would cover all such professional leagues and have a heading along the lines of "1987 Lumberjacks in professional football" or "1987 Humboldt State players in professional football". Cbl62 (talk) 04:21, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I do include pre-merger American Football League (partially because I was a big AFL fan) and in such cases have changed the title to: Team players in the NFL/AFL. See: 1962 San Diego State Aztecs football team. In fact, I spent a lot of time updating AFL draft information (1962-1964) on Wikipedia in March of last year so that it would be accurate. But yeah, it doesn't seem right that I had to relegate somebody like Damon Allen (Marcus's brother) to the notes section. He played at Cal State Fullerton then went on to a CFL Hall of Fame career. See Note 4 at: 1984 Cal State Fullerton Titans football team Ocfootballknut (talk) 05:40, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Exactly. So "1984 Titans in professional football" seems like a more apt section heading, allowing for inclusion of notable players like Damon Allen. Cbl62 (talk) 06:24, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, if there's consensus, I've compiled the data from the AAFC, Arena Football, CFL, USFL, WFL, & XFL and can put it in when I get back from my hiatus in mid-June. There's over 600 players who attended the various California schools I've worked on that have played in those leagues at one point or another.Ocfootballknut (talk) 07:04, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

The California Star

 * Awww, I'm honored. And yes, I had a wonderful time going to the Kentucky Derby and the Indianapolis 500 among many other things in a very long vacation.Ocfootballknut (talk) 17:23, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Congratulations on 1.7 million page views
The Userviews tool shows that articles you created on Wikipedia have received 1,739,792 views since 7/1/2015 (the earliest date when data is available). Here are your top ten most-viewed creations:

If you're interested in the complete list, it can be seen here. Cbl62 (talk) 11:30, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

Nomination of 1924 Humboldt State Lumberjacks football team for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article 1924 Humboldt State Lumberjacks football team is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/1924 Humboldt State Lumberjacks football team until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished. Let&#39;srun (talk) 21:48, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Nomination of 1925 Humboldt State Lumberjacks football team for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article 1925 Humboldt State Lumberjacks football team is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/1925 Humboldt State Lumberjacks football team until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished. Let&#39;srun (talk) 21:51, 27 December 2023 (UTC)