User talk:Oldelpaso/Archive 8

Georgi Kinkladze
I guess image is something important for FA success. Jhon y    15:58, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Great then! Thanks to the photographer, Ms Maria Gorelova! What's your opinion on stats?  Jhon  y    16:09, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, but it's a pity, assists are more important stats than everything else, for a playmaker. What about different versions of his stats? Those in the infobox are improbable in some places.  Jhon  y    16:28, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok. Just in case, I'm close to completion but didn't finished adding material yet.  Jhon  y    19:35, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Examination of the issues involved in identifying footballers by year of birth
I appreciate your note and, after following your direction to the disambiguation page listing all past and present participants in English football carrying the name Alan Smith (only two of whom, plus the (manager) and (physio) currently have articles), I can see an argument for using years of birth when careers overlap, as in the cases of Alan Smith (born 1939) and (born 1940) or those (born 1949) and (born 1950). The other argument, however, has to be that with common names such as Alan/Allan/Allen/Al Smith or Thomas/Tom/Tommy Johnson, the brief parenthetical modifier needs to focus on the key term or series of terms which best encapsulate the essence of the individual's notability. The year of birth, in the case of footballers, or any others, would not seem to be as central to a career as the years of the career itself. That having been said, it is extremely unlikely that anyone looking for a footballer named Alan Smith would type Alan Smith (footballer born 1962) or Alan Smith (footballer born 1966) or, for that matter, my proposed style, Alan Smith (footballer 1980s and 1990s) (an additional five characters and one space). The theoretical seeker would, of course, only type "Alan Smith" and, upon reaching the disambiguation page, would scrutinize the additional information ("played for Arsenal", "played for Torquay United", etc.) as a guideline, thus obviating the need to click on each name to determine the correct individual. Finally, while it is true that some sportspeople may have similar or even identical names, I have not seen the practice of using years of birth as an identifier carried over to other sports or other professions. We have both been contributors to Wikipedia for years and have thousands of edits, although, since football is your specialty, I would not presume to set specifications in that field, except to initiate a general discussion as to standards which would be applicable to biographical entries, rather than to one specific area.&mdash;Roman Spinner (talk) 20:45, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * More food for thought and valid points to consider&mdash;though many football (and sports, in general) careers are short, some extend over decades, and even a 12-year career, begun in 1939 and ended in 1951 would, of necessity, need to be described, using the more-logical syntax of your "George Smith" example as, indeed, (1930s, 1940s and 1950s footballer). One specific solution might be my original idea for the move, which I changed at the last moment&mdash;exact career years. While many football careers overlap, virtually no careers of same-named footballers, or any individuals, begin and end in the same years as that of the other same-named individuals. Since on-line statistics for just about anyone who ever played professional football, baseball, cricket, etc. are readily available and the editors who supply the articles are sticklers for detail and, most likely, also have their own reference books, it should not be a problem. I originally set the move of Tommy Johnson (footballer born 1900) to Tommy Johnson (footballer 1919–39) and just before clicking "move", changed it to "(footballer 1930s and 1940s)", thinking (probably illogically) that someone may mistake those for birth–death dates (not a problem, of course, in the cases of footballers whose careers lasted for only a brief period). The "George Smith" of your example would thus become George Smith (footballer 1939–51). The slight drawback in this idea is that for current footballers, one would have to title the article John Doe (footballer since 2001) and then move the article again once the career is over to indicate the end year. Since we use the format "(born 1950)", rather than "(1950–)", a qualifier such as "(footballer 2001–)" would seem to be unacceptable.
 * As for using middle names or middle initials to distinguish between or among same-named individuals, even where known, it may not always be desirable. As the rules for naming articles point out, the title should use the name by which the individual is best known to the public. The names of actors Edward G. Robinson and Leo G. Carroll are/were known only with their middle initials and may be difficult to identify if said without the initials. On the other hand, in disambiguating another common name, William Marshall, there was already a William Marshall (actor), so an editor titled the entry for the second actor with that name as William H. Marshall. The problem with such an approach is that the second William Marshall, who was "billed" as "Bill Marshall" early in his career, was best known as "William Marshall" and had never used his middle initial in any billing. Since he spent more time on television than in films, the eventual, much longer, though clearer qualifier became William Marshall (film and television actor). In the end, all William Marshalls are really accessible only through their disambiguation page. In the cases of Lee Andrew Martin, Lee Brendan Martin and Lee Robert Martin, I suspect that unlike say, actresses Jennifer Jason Leigh or Sara Jessica Parker, they were never known to the public by their triple names, nor did they ever use them, except possibly on passports or other such documents. The New Zealand politician William Lee Martin, better known as simply "Lee Martin" should probably be titled Lee Martin (politician) or Lee Martin (New Zealand) (American politicians have a strong identity to the state they represent, which may or may not be true in other parts of the world) so Lee Martin (North Island) or Lee Martin (Raglan) may also be possible. As this note is already overlong, I should end on this point.&mdash;Roman Spinner (talk) 00:20, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

UEFA Cup edit war
I presume he has the same warning? Or is it Wikipedia bias again? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fadiga09 (talk • contribs) 13:53, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Comprehensive long lists‎ discussion
Hello, I noticed that you took part in the recent FLRC for List of Arsenal F.C. players and thought you might be interested in participating in a new discussion. The FLRC was closed as no consensus and it is clear the the issue of incompleteness in longer FLs is not over, so a discussion page has been started here. Please feel free to comment. -- Scorpion0422 21:18, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Uefa Cup
Ok, but why don´t you get into the discussion and give your opinion about the problem. Is vandalism to edit with official sources? Why must we accept "thoughts or feelings" invented by the supporters instead of official and seriuos sources by UEFA.com? I don´t undestand... --Ultracanalla (talk) 22:24, 16 April 2008 (UTC)


 * My argument with the other editor revolves around if the Inter Cities Fairs Cup results belong on Uefa related articles. I have tried to discuss the subject and posted my references several times on talk pages. But I find it hopeless to engage into a discussion with someone who lacks a basic grasp of WP: Civil. I requested for someone to arbitrate the impasse a while ago, but none of the admins made an attempt. If you're familiar with the subject, could you read the above linked discussions and give an outsider's opinion. That may help resolve this deadlock. --Ultracanalla (talk) 22:44, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Valencia CF Edit War
User requested in edit summary for Administrator intervention. I have requested both users to cease editing until an Admin has contacted them. I see that you have spoken with both users, but they continue to edit war. Just thought I would let you know. If you need something, let me know.  D u s t i speak and be heard! 22:47, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

That's fine with me, but i don't like the wikipedia bias here, and Dustihowe seems another issuing bias here. Just treat it fairly, we are both edit-warring, don't pick sides. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fadiga09 (talk • contribs) 22:54, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Kinkladze - 2
I feel that's enough contributions of mine for the present, so I left the article with you to copyedit it. Jhon y    14:12, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * "The most honoured Georgian footballer who ever played in Russian Premier League" — exactly the same words as in the Russian press, possibly provided with my faulty translation :) I.e., none of other Georgians played in the RPL had honours such as two times Georgian player of the year. Remove this if you want.
 * I know that format such as one in Gilberto's article is broadly used, but unfortunately it's seemingly incompatible with "summer league, but winter cups" countries such as Russia.  Jhon  y    18:20, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That's my original notation. This information is useful, at least it was useful to me, so I boldly added these numbers to the article.  Jhon  y    19:01, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Featured article candidates/Aberdeen F.C.
I've addressed your issues. Could you please have a look to see if I've corrected them to your liking? I'd appreciate it. Thanks for your comments.  weburiedoursecrets inthegarden  20:56, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Dweller/Challenge_Dweller
I'm warming up. See today's edits to Donald Bradman --Dweller (talk) 15:36, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll add Trauttman to my to-do list. Once the Don is at PR or FAC, I'll drop by. --Dweller (talk) 11:28, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah. I see it's already at PR. I'll try and drop by when I get a mo'. --Dweller (talk) 11:30, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

RE:Trautmann
We have the Logistics page where you might find someone who can look through it for you. Other than that, there are the individual task force pages or the main Milhist talkpage where I am sure someone will come and help you. Regards. Woody (talk) 14:34, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

UEFA Cup
Hi, seems like there is a differing opinion on the UEFA Cup issue. Seems like the Wikipedia rules are not being used here, i saw your initial post there discussing about using the neutrality of Wikipedia but it's not being followed by the other admin Black Kite.

Thanks. (Matrixbucra (talk) 22:21, 27 April 2008 (UTC))

Featured article candidates/1995 Japanese Grand Prix
Thanks for your comments. I've replied back at the FAC. D.M.N. (talk) 13:55, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I've left more comments. If you feel I've resolved some of your concerns, can you strike the no longer concerns, so I know what you are still concerned about surrounding the article. D.M.N. (talk) 15:42, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I've done a comma check myself mainly in the Race section. Please comment at the above FAC. Regards, D.M.N. (talk) 07:46, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Kinkladze FAC
That's great! I'll keep an eye on it. Jhony (talk) 22:16, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Sam Cowan
I notice you've been putting in a bit of work on Sam Cowan. I'll have a look through my record books to see what he did at Bradford, even if it just means I can add a line or two. If I haven't done it, just fire me a message. Peanut4 (talk) 09:24, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, yeah I saw your response at the Kinkladze FAC but was holding off till other editors came in. As far as I'm concerned, everything's probably been done. I'll take another look at the article before responding on the FAC page, but I'm not always the best for the quality of prose, which is why I was waiting. But will do it in the next couple of days. Peanut4 (talk) 10:46, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No worries. I'm stuck at work and a bit bored and can't yet get hold of the Bradford info till later. You've done a cracking job on it. Steve Claridge, what a legend - though can't believe he hasn't scored in the Conference. Peanut4 (talk) 09:48, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Glad you put it up for GA. I was going to suggest that very thing today. Peanut4 (talk) 20:11, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

WP:LOTM
Congratulations on your recent WP:FL. In case you do not know, we are running an experiment to choose the List of the Month and Lists of the Day for June. Feel free to nominate your list at User:TonyTheTiger/List of the Day/Nominees/200807 for consideration next month to be the July LOTM or a LOTD. If you would like to support this experiment the most important thing you can do is come by and vote at User:TonyTheTiger/List of the Day/voting/200806. My talk page is always open.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:12, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

MLS Templates
I was actually going to request that they be protected. But I wasn't sure if Template pages would work in that template on the request for protection page. Kingjeff (talk) 14:33, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I think you might have a candidate for WP:LAME. Anyway, smart idea protecting. -  CWY2190    ( talk  •  contributions )  14:44, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * We need an administrator to make a decision. Basically I feel that the Standings table should be W-L-T until a consensus is reached because the standings is a major part of articles like 2008 Major League Soccer season making it a major edit and it should have been discussed there before the changes were made. Grant feels that it should be W-D-L until a consensus is reached. So, basically, we need a decision that all parties will accept. Kingjeff (talk) 14:52, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * This issue has been resolved, if you check the talk page of the season article, so if you wouldn't mind unprotecting the templates in preparation for tomorrow's game, we'd appreciate it. --   Grant  .  Alpaugh  04:37, 15 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm with Grant Alpaugh on this one. We have settled the issue and I would kindly ask that you unprotect the templates before the game tonight. --Otav347 (talk) 13:46, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Kinky FAC
I'll be along asap. Sorry for delay - I forgot. --Dweller (talk) 21:21, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm still up to my armpits in Donald Bradman. What does Kinky need? A copyedit? Or more? --Dweller (talk) 13:00, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd like to apologise for missing the FAC pretty much entirely until it was too late. Let me know if I can be of assistance...  The Rambling Man (talk) 14:42, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

John Reames
Hi Oldelpaso, I had also thought about the ORTS, but don't know how/if it would work. Any help will be much appreciated! Kind regards, GiantSnowman 18:02, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi, thanks for the reply. What I think I'll do is include the Feb 1942 birthdate - noting why on the article talk page - and remove mention of his age at death from the article. Many thanks for the help, it's been much appreciated. GiantSnowman 19:17, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I had an inkling that "adamant" was a bit strong, I'll change it; I am an English Literature Student after all so I'm sure I'll be able to think of one! Cheers, GiantSnowman 19:32, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Thaks for the suggestion - which I got after I changed it! - what do you think about the wording now? GiantSnowman 19:45, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

WP:LOTD
English football champions was selected as a WP:LOTD for one day in June and will be the LOTD during the month. Let me know before May 23rd if you have any date preferences.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 02:35, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Kinky
I'll have a look. Most of my comments were addressed, and I was basically waiting to see what improvements were likely to be made. I was a little surprised to see the FAC closed so soon. But I'll certainly have a look for you. Peanut4 (talk) 13:57, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I would tag the honours as "unreferenced section", but that might get me in hot water! Images is a big issue, and not something you can do anything about :-( Fasach Nua (talk) 14:54, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up about the peer review. I'll have another look through and post my comments soon. No rush though. Thanks. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 23:59, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Middlesbrough FC peer review
Many thanks for your help re Middlesbrough F.C. and its' peer review. Have had a quick go at implementing the changes you suggested - will certainly get this sorted sort! Thanks for your support.--Mofs (talk) 21:31, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Anfield: The peer review
I dealt with some of the issues you brought up. Can you have a quick look over the improvements i made to make sure the rewritten phrases don't have problems of their own? Just look at the history or follow from your struck out comments to see what i've done. Thanks. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 14:25, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Re: Talk:Foreign players in association football
Posts like the one you made leave me unhappy for a variety of reasons, so I'll try to explain my views on the issue. As an administrator, you're familiar with WP:CSD, and I'm sure that you've probably deleted talk pages under it. When doing so, the basic requirement is that the subject-space page doesn't exist and that there isn't a note on the top of the page indicating that the page should be kept. Instead of using a user subpage, a sandbox, a subpage of the Football WikiProject, or really any other place besides an orphaned talk page, three admins decided to intentionally create an orphaned talk page. It also was possible to create a stub, or anything, on the subject-space page to make the talk page no longer orphaned, or you could have put a note on the talk page indicating that it should be kept. None of these things were done. Ideally, users would use their userspace or the WikiProject space to plan articles. With all of these alternate options, three admins decided to not be proactive in the slightest. : - / --MZMcBride (talk) 18:38, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Re barnstar
Very kind, sir. Thank you :-) Struway2 (talk) 18:32, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Flags
I read nothing on that page that said you're not supposed to post flags next to managers or chairmen. Also, Hughes and Thaksin in particular have connections to their countries; Hughes with Wales as he has represented them as a player and as a manager and Thaksin was the Prime Minister of his nation. I guess Manchester City will be the only article without flags next to their manager and chairman then. --Tocino 17:03, 5 June 2008 9UTC)

Favour
I saw you did a lot of good work on the Scotland article. I was wondering if you could lend your expertise to the Ireland article. It failed GA, and needs references, unfortunetly I know the subject too well and cant see anything that could be challeneged, could you go through the article and brutally add the tag. Unfortunetly there is a Notable_Players section which needs dealt with too. Fasach Nua (talk) 11:26, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Jacob Gemmell
how many artists have released a record with all tracks titled after women? this is not a candidate for speedy deletion, and should be recreated.--Asenjohoho (talk) 18:35, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Billy Felton
Hi - I've added an article on Billy Felton who played for Manchester City for a few years in the 1930s. Can you add anything to the article? Cheers. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 18:21, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Third effort
Lol! Thanks for that. I'm not entirely sure you're serious, but at the risk of looking foolish, I'll take it seriously. I've not really thought about it, but even a quick contemplation makes me think I'm not ready, especially having watched the pain of Anthony's RfB.

I've been going through some, erm, interesting times IRL recently, but things seem simpler now. My intentions, once Donald Bradman gets through FAC, have been to focus on my new role at Featured Lists, do more mediation (which I really enjoy and think I have a flair for) and I'd really like to start pulling my weight at XfD, which I've largely ignored since passing RfA, probably at the expense of the time I currently devote to CSD work.

With some months of that lot under my belt, I'll be in a much stronger position, because I'll have to have demonstrated so many Cratty qualities to succeed in those areas. Now that you raise this idea, I suppose I could think about deliberately involving myself in some more directly relevant areas, but I'm not sure if I think that's cynical. Dunno, perhaps it'd be being practical. I'll rethink it in a month or two once I'm settled into my new "workplan". Anyway, thanks for raising it; I'll bear it in mind. Hope you don't mind me turning you down. --Dweller (talk) 21:51, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Fixture copyright
Thanks for the info. Seems like interesting reading... Sebisthlm (talk) 17:54, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Man City Task Force
Hi, I proposed a Man City Task Force as part of WP:FOOTY over here and I thought you may be interested since you seem to be a one man task force at the moment. If so please add your name Paul    Bradbury  10:02, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

GA review of Sam Cowan
Hi! I have reviewed your GA nomination of Sam Cowan, and have placed the article on hold while awaiting some minor clarifications. You can see my review on the article's talk page. When you have had a chance to read my review, and deterimine if anything should be done to address my comments, please leave me a message and I will take a second look at the article. Thanks! Resolute 22:08, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Following the enhancements you and Peanut4 have made over the past few days, I am happy to pass this article as a GA. Congrats! Resolute 00:47, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

PR experiment
Dear Oldelpaso, I'm writing in hopes of enlisting your aid in a four-month experiment at Peer Review (PR). The success of the experiment will depend on finding at least 10 editors willing to review at least one article a week through the end of October 2008. The experiment will employ a streamlined review process designed to insure that every nominator who seeks a review gets one and that reviewers do not waste time doing long reviews for nominators who do not respond to an initial short review.

The way it works is this: (1) Choose any article at Peer Review that lacks a review. Peer reviews by date, especially the backlog list, is still a good place to find such articles. (2) Provide a short partial review based on your initial observations and wait to see if the nominator responds. Examples of short reviews can be found at Peer review/Foreign relations of India/archive1 and Peer review/Ed Stelmach/archive1. (3) If the nominator does not respond, the review is done. (4) If the nominator responds, continue the review as you see fit.

The experiment will require no noticeable administration. However, if you plan to participate, it would be helpful if you posted a brief note to Wikipedia talk:Peer review to that effect. At the end of October, we can see how the experiment turned out and whether this process or some modification of it could sustain Peer Review permanently with minimal backlogs. If you can help, that would be great. If not, that's perfectly OK. We are all tremendously busy with a lot of different projects.

I have chosen to write to you in part because you've done peer reviews from the backlog during the past four months. Please forgive the form-letter nature of this note, which is more efficient than a personal note. With respect and thanks for your hard work on many projects, Finetooth (talk) 20:31, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Billy Murphy (footballer)
Thanks for the note - I'll do some research when I have time - I'm supposed to be out on my bike today as I have a 60 mile charity ride next weeknd, but the weather is putting me off, so my wife wants me to do some decorating - Yuck! Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 10:03, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Now expanded - cheers. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 20:03, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

1956 FA Cup Final
History is written by the winners, probably because they have better sources. What I've used in Len Boyd is pretty much all I've got, though The Times Digital Archive is a wondrous thing. I'd be happy to help if I can - what are you aiming to do with it? cheers, Struway2 (talk) 15:27, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll see what I can do with Blues' route to the final, then (to me, City would unambiguously mean your lot, but the neutral observer wouldn't know that). It was all away from home, the only time a team had reached the final without playing at home (still is, I think), and it all went wonderfully up until Roy Warhurst injured himself in the quarter final. Downhill from there... cheers, Struway2 (talk) 18:07, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Should have something ready by this afternoon on route to final (touch wood, I've been suffering for days with an ISP that appears to stand for Intermittent Slow Provider, if I do get a connection can't tell how long it's going to last. Grrrr.) Hate reading about the 1956 team: top-class keeper, solid defence, midfield full of hard bastards who could pass forwards, goalscoring attackers. Be nice if the current lot had even one or two of the above. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 10:21, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Have done a bit on post-match in my sandbox, mostly players' quotes about where to lay the blame. Could you have a look and if any of it's worth using, move it across to the article. The Merrick quote may need pruning. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 14:15, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Does look better with the quote moved to a footnote. If only more readers ever looked at footnotes. As to photographs, when my lot played at Plymouth a couple of years ago, Alex Govan was half-time star of the day, and spent some time at the Blues end milking the applause and having his picture taken; unfortunately I left my seat on the stroke of halftime to do what one does at halftime if one has been in the pub beforehand, and missed it all. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 16:42, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * My books have remarkably little on the final itself, rather more on the semifinal, can't think why. I'm sure there was a rule at one stage that if a change of strip was needed then both teams had to change, but whether that applied in 1956 I've no idea. Also, according to HistoricalKits, we played in black shorts and socks, not blue, and they certainly look very dark in contemporary b&w photos; do you have anything in writing that says blue? I'll do something to the description of Kinsey's goal later. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:30, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Willie Mac
Cheers dude, I'll see if I can drag the little man to the library on Saturday morning while the wife's having her Indian head massage, whatever the hell that is......... :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 21:08, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Found it - cheers! Saves having to take a bored 3-year old to the library :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 21:32, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Hyde Road GAN

 * I am not sure if you are complete with my concerns, just checking up. If so, reply on my talk page.-- S R X  01:59, 3 August 2008 (UTC)