User talk:Oldelpaso/Archive 9

Kinkladze
Did you make all the improvements that came out of the FA process for the article? I can't really tell from this archive at all. I'm going to fix up the referencing soon so that will be fine for another try at FA some time in the future. Actually, I can't really see why it was failed. Cheers. (PS: If you're into athletics too I've written up an article for Dwain Chambers which has a current peer review at the moment.) Sillyfolkboy (talk) 03:10, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Just out of interest: How did you read those russian links? I've not even got the right characters displaying! Sillyfolkboy (talk) 03:25, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I've fixed up some of the references but couldn't do the the foreign language ones (Hablo Espanol y ksero Elliniki but not Dutch or Russian!). Please note that the links for all "Derby Evening Telegraph" citations are broken and redirect to the home page, not sure if they've been deleted which is a pain given how much they've been used. I've noted a dead telegraph link ("Kinkladze let's boots do talking") and google returns no replacement. Hope you can fix things back again. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 02:14, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Rochdale
Hi there - I have a favour to ask... Last month at the Herbert Chapman peer review you mentioned you had some info about the incarnation of Rochdale that he played for. Is it possible you could create a stub about it for me? I would like to nominate the article for FAC soon and it's the only redlink in his infobox - I imagine the people looking over the article will point it out as a possible obstacle to FA status. It would be much appreciated if you could, thanks! Qwghlm (talk) 13:25, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Cheers, that's great, thanks! Qwghlm (talk) 00:22, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Manchester City F.C. statistics and records
Hey, saw you were making edits to the above page to bring them into line with some featured lists, and I was wondering if this was being done with the specific intention of promoting the article to featured list candidate. I'm not normally moved to participate in such endeavours myself, usually because I tend to lack the knowledge or ability to actually make an impact on the article quality, but in this case I'd be willing to lend my efforts as best I can. However, I recognise you as the much more able and experienced editor, and so if you had no direct intention of FL-ing this article, I'll reduce my efforts in this regard - largely because I have no idea what would be expected of myself and the article to pass a candidacy, and I tend to become overwhelmed when diving into projects which I then realise are too much for me, and shy away from them. To be honest, I've never been involved with an FA/FL candidacy before, and I'm rather intimidated at the thought of having one riding on my shoulders.

Anywho, just wondering what your plans are for the article. If you don't mind, then I'll follow where you lead. Falastur2 Talk 01:20, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll see what I can add to it, starting Tuesday if I can. I've got a couple of semi-authorative sources, don't suppose you have any which could help us add to the article? Falastur2  Talk 22:42, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow, very nice. I'm limited to online sources, so hopefully the holes in my knowledge won't become too obvious, but I have shown a knack before for unearthing random bits of useful info online that you might otherwise never come across, so we shall see :) Falastur2  Talk 14:16, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Help required
Hi there - I'm a user on the WSC board and wondered if you could login there and PM me (and let me know you've done it!)? I'm NHH on the WSC Board and need to chat to someone who really understands wikis for a project I'm starting at my work (which is football related). Dave —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boyleduk (talk • contribs) 10:47, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Scotland
I hope you dont think I am beating up on this article, it is head and shoulders above all the other national football teams, and very much what much of Ireland national football team (1882–1950) is based on. I think the logo issue needs discussed in a calm sensible way, and FAC is generally one of the calmest most sensible forums there is. Fasach Nua (talk) 19:59, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

History of Bradford City A.F.C.
Thanks for the support at FAC. I was getting a bit bored of waiting for comments!!! Equally as important, is the thanks for the comments at the peer review stage. Much appreciated. Peanut4 (talk) 22:11, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

My RfA
Thank you for your support in my recent RfA, which was successful with 58 support, 4 oppose and 1 neutral. Kind regards. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 21:50, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Oliver Lancashire
Cheers. And Man City will get relegated as well - you don't win anything with kids, you know! HornetMike (talk) 16:31, 14 September 2008 (UTC) PS: A pedant would round 22.54 to 23! Postively ancient...

Joseph Mills
Could you restore this article which was deleted last December - he made his debut in a League Cup match on 26 August - see here. Cheers. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 17:22, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

W-dahl
Thank you for making me feel welcome here on Wikipedia...and if you ever feel the urge to extend the article about Frank Worthington just give me a holler, 'cause I've got some funny anecdotes from his short, but legendary, time in Mjällby AIF. W-dahl (talk) 19:27, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

FAC
Excellent job, oppose stricken Fasach Nua (talk) 14:42, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

DYK 25/9

 * Two DYKs in one day - well done!  --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 21:43, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Bruce
I've had a look through my sources but can't find any specific mention of specific nose-breaking incidents..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 19:39, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

1956 and all that
Do you think that's feasible? I've never taken an article to FAC, so not really sure what's required, but I'd be happy to co-operate if you think it's worth a try. Congratulations on Mr Trautmann, and presumably your statue photo could also be used in this article? Won't be around much this week, but from next week it could have my full attention, such as that is. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:53, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe it would be possible to crop a usable image out of photos of teams receiving the cup, if such exist from 1912 or whenever? Or from team photos in club history books? I'm not well up on the technicalities of image copyright.
 * What do you think of this edit, which appears to be becoming standard usage in cup final articles? Apart from the randomly-allocated players' positions, unkeyed abbreviations, unnecessary small font, use of flags contrary to MoS, team lists positioned in apparently random columns, and loss of the match rules bit that was in the previous olde-fashioned version, I don't like it much. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 12:33, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Between us we seem to be using 3 or 4 different formats for page numbers in the references :-) As Cite news generates page numbers in the format p. 293, I'll go through at some point and make them all that format for consistency. One wonders why cite news generates the p. prefix when Cite book doesn't, all the same. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 13:53, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Done that, there were one or two missing publication dates etc as well, think I've caught them all. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 15:43, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Man City
Hi there, just to let you know I'm off to Man City v. Liverpool on Sunday, and was wondering if there were any photos of anything you'd like taken? Even though I'll be pretty much snapping everything anyway... Cheers, Mattythewhite (talk) 19:55, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Cool, thanks. And I was offered the chance to go, and thought to myself why not? See some of the best players in the world and should be a good day out. Although I am at York v. Cambridge tomorrow, just means a lot of travel... Cheers, Mattythewhite (talk) 10:03, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Oldmanchestercitylogo.gif)
Thanks for uploading Image:Oldmanchestercitylogo.gif. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Di Jones
It's funny, I've also found a couple of sources that give his birth year as 1867, so that could probably be changed, but I've also found a source (Soccer: The International Line-ups & Statistics Series - Wales 1876-1960) that gives his number of caps as 16. – PeeJay 15:00, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, it seems that two of the fixtures that Jones was listed as playing in were "unofficial", so perhaps the figure of 14 caps is correct. – PeeJay 15:08, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Matt Busby
Hi there, I'm currently doing a bit of a mass cleanup and expansion operation on Matt Busby's article as it has been nominated as WP:MUFC's collaboration of the month. I'm quite confident with the amount of material I have about his time managing United, and even some of his playing career with Liverpool, but much of the info about his time with City still eludes me. Since you are a City fan, I wonder if you might be able to provide some extra material for the article. Eventually, I would not be surprised if this article managed to reach FA status, but that will probably not be achieved without proportionate coverage of his time with each of City, Liverpool and United, hence my request. Thanks in advance. – PeeJay 23:32, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I've read the "fruit boiler" story too, but I can't remember where I saw it. Cheers for the info you've added to the article. I now have a copy of Busby's biography (by Eamon Dunphy) so that ought to help a bit. – PeeJay 10:26, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Trip wishes
Thanks Oldelpaso, very much appreciated! I'll be around though, so it's not five months of radio silence! All the best, The Rambling Man (talk) 10:32, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

North Road (stadium) and Bank Street (stadium)
Hey man, I know it probably grates with you to help a Man Utd fan out like this, but I wonder if you might be able to extract any info about North Road and Bank Street from your copy of "Manchester: A Football History". User:Peanut4 commented at North Road's peer review that the article needs more info about what happened between when United moved out and the ground was destroyed, so I hope there's some material in the book about that. As usual, any help you can give me would be gratefully received, and if there's anything you need from me, don't hesitate to ask. – PeeJay 23:32, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Hello
Are you back, or am I still struggling on my own :-) cheers, Struway2 (talk) 16:18, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I spent a couple of hours buried in the B'ham Mail microfilm archives the other day - a special treat given I only visit Bham for matches these days - and hope to have another go on Tuesday. If there's any particular area you think could do with filling out from the Bham angle, let me know. Trouble is, I get distracted into reading the damn paper rather than just skimming through specific football news... cheers, Struway2 (talk) 13:01, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * What we don't mention anywhere is the change of colours. I have a newspaper ref (same one as for the ticket touting bit) which says "To avoid confusion, Manchester had dropped its sky blue and Birmingham its royal blue for the occasion.", but no idea whether they were required to by the FA, or their own idea, or what. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 13:30, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, I've had a fiddle with the teamsheet layout in my sandbox, cut out a lot of white space while trying to leave everything readable, do you think it's any improvement on what we have at the moment? cheers, Struway2 (talk) 15:51, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Your book's come, then :-) Not sure what to do, if anything, about the "back page" newspaper refs. Adding "back page" outside the cite template looks OK where a particular edition is specified as well, but it doesn't look right just tagged on the end on its own. The template would produce  which looks daft. Wondering whether to hand-code those ones so that back page appears where the page number normally would but without the   prefix. Or am I being too fussy? Some of them will shortly be changed to page 1 – the back and front pages of the Mail looked very similar in the 1950s, the only obvious difference being the price was on the front page, and a sloppy researcher in a hurry just assumed football would be on the back :-) cheers, Struway2 (talk) 11:14, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Rollback
Hey, thanks for the rollback option. If I've any questions about it, I'll get in touch. As for adminship, I don't think I'd fancy it, well certainly not at the moment. But again, if anything changes, I'll be straight in touch. Peanut4 (talk) 18:40, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Stringfellow
Cheers for that, I've added it into the article. BTW I've addressed the points you raised at the 1923 FA Cup Final FAC, hopefully to your satisfaction :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:09, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for your support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:56, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Message from WikiProject Punk music
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Goalscoring goalkeepers
Looks like you've done a great job with the list so far. I was quite surprised at the amount of interest generated by what was a pretty random and throwaway thought! I agree that the list may never be complete, so I'm thinking that perhaps the template would be appropriate? --Jameboy (talk) 20:51, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

1956 FAC
See 1923 has its star now... Couple of Peanut4's points still outstanding from PR, namely:
 * I think the lead is a tad on the short side per WP:LEAD. It includes nothing from "Route to the final", "Build-up" and "Post-match" sections. and
 * "Further controversy followed in the semi-final against Tottenham Hotspur, when, with the score at 1–0 to Manchester City, Tottenham were denied a penalty after goalkeeper Bert Trautmann grabbed forward George Robb's leg." Possibly worth saying the game finished 1-0 in the text.

He's right about the lead. I added the para covering Route to the final, but after that it only really covers the match itself. Perhaps the media attention in general, or press speculation about the team, could be mentioned? Shame there's no obvious legacy of this match like there was with 1923.

Does the colour change belong in Build-up, or in the first para of Match? Also, User:Daemonic Kangaroo mentioned a Roy Paul quote from after the 1955 final saying they'd come back and win it the following year (see User talk:Struway2/Archive 2), any use?

I'd say once the lead is expanded a bit, if you think the prose is OK, submit it as soon as you like. Blues have no midweek games for a bit so I've only got normal real-life stuff to get in the way of my Wikipeding... cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:49, 9 November 2008 (UTC)


 * "terrified opponents"??? Pity Warhurst wasn't playing... You should allude to it, it's another illustration of your lot appearing to want it more. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 10:22, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Should we be taking a view on Buc's comment "For a match played over 50 years ago there isn't much about how it's remebered today." at the FAC? Personally, I don't think it is generally remembered today, other than as "the one where the goalie broke his neck", which strikes me as enough, and probably more than most cup finals are remembered other than by fans of the participants. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 20:56, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

RC Strasbourg
Hi! I saw that you were the user who assessed the article on RC Strasbourg back in March 2007. I have been working on this article for the last two weeks and I would really love it should someone wish to re-consider the "start" status. I have already requested an assessment on the football project and asked for peer review but apparently no one is eager to re-assess it, or maybe it is not good enough (if that is the case, I would really like to know what I should improve). Since you have some point of comparison, I thought you might perhaps accept to give a quick look. Thanks! Zitelli67 (talk) 13:16, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Boring request
I seem to remember that normal users can't move things over redirects. Could you help me with this ridiculously named article &mdash;Australian Football (Soccer) Hall of Fame? A quick click on the External link at the bottom clearly proves that no one in their right mind would call their hall of fame a "football (soccer) hall of fame". I believe this is the intended target. Cheers in advance for doing this exciting task! Sillyfolkboy (talk) 21:22, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see, the plot thickens. Seeing as the Soccer Hall of Fame name is deprecated then I suppose that Australian Football Hall of Fame (soccer) appears the most suitable rename. I'll take it to RM as you said. Cheers.

Hearty congratulations........
.........on the FAC for the 56 Final. Definitely deserved! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:24, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * 1969 FA Cup Final? ;-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:12, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

likewise! and thanks for convincing me it'd be possible... cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:10, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * there's always the match where the players got Trevor Francis the sack, though in the general scheme of things it's probably not that notable... But if I ever get round to expanding Roy Warhurst past its current 2-line stub, I'll know where to come for his post-Birmingham career. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:23, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * should've sacked him after the Preston penalties fiasco, preferably on the pitch, couldn't have made it worse. Tony Coton's reasonably distinguished, and Robert Hopkins is something of a Blues cult hero, though his seven games for your lot probably made little impression. Note to self: this is an encyclopedia, not a footy forum... cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:53, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Image:Trautmann.jpg
Is this sculpture your own work? If not, who made it? Haukur (talk) 16:58, 28 November 2008 (UTC)


 * All right, I've added the fop template. Thank you. Haukur (talk) 19:29, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Shaun Goater
Hi there. I put on the two tags, because it looks a little short of references, but probably moreso because it's a GA. I doubt I would have put on the tags for a C or B-class article. I don't think I did it particularly for any particular claims, just to try and improve the references.

However, taking a quick look again, the second paragraph of "Early career" has just one reference right at the start, and most of the Manchester City section looks unreferenced. It may well be that it's covered by the references that are there. Like you say, it may well be that it's because it was a GA a long time ago, and I did it more to try and bring the referencing up to the current expected state of referencing. Peanut4 (talk) 20:28, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

2006 Gator Bowl FAC
Just wanted to say thanks for the comments and critique of the Gator Bowl FAC. I know how tough it is to do a review of an article about a foreign sport, but the reward is definitely worth it, since you're getting a critique of some points that would never have been brought up by someone more familiar with the subject. I did have some follow-up questions, which I've left on the talk page. Thanks again! JKBrooks85 (talk) 02:00, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Sunderland A.F.C. FAC
Hi there, cheers a lot for your review of the Sunderland A.F.C. FAC. I think your comments raised have now been addressed, and if you could have another look over it, that would be great. Thanks. Sunderland06 (talk) 21:24, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi again, in response to your offer to help polish the article up, I'd like to work with you to get it up to the featured mark. Thanks. Sunderland06  (talk) 17:48, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I've responded to your queries on the talk page. Sunderland06  (talk) 19:02, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi, just checking up, do you think it will take much before I can FAC it again. If not, how about another peer review? Tah. Sunderland06 (talk) 23:45, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I've had a go at adjusting it. I think the hooliganism was pretty exagerated, as Sunderland aren't a club particularly famed for it. I've removed the whole part about the Middlesbrough clash. I also gave Archibald Leitch a mentioning. Cheers. Sunderland06  (talk) 22:08, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

The Cliff (training ground)
Hey dude. I was wondering if you could help me flesh out The Cliff (training ground) with any information you can extract from "Manchester: A Football History", assuming it gets a mention in that tome. Even if you just give me a couple of facts, I should be able to shoehorn something into the article. – PeeJay 23:47, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll see if I can find myself a copy of Played in Manchester then. Cheers anyway. – PeeJay 12:13, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Adminship
Crikey, that's something I'll need to give a deal of thought to. Taking stuff like education into account, perhaps it would not be the best thing to go for at the moment and I think I'll need to do some research into the details of what it would specifically involve. Thanks, and I will look into it - but afterall, there isn't any rush. Cheers, Mattythewhite (talk) 14:03, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Frank Swift
Absolutely can do. I've got an exam on Thursday that I'm revising for, but once that's done I'll give it a go. – PeeJay 08:58, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Willie Mac
Cheers OEP, I've got some good stuff out of that and added it into the article -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:23, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds bang on! I'll happily help you integrate any new material you discover into the article if needed..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:55, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

FA Cup Final infobox
Just regarding the FA Cup Final infobox you added to 1956 FA Cup Final... I noticed that 2007 UEFA Champions League Final (also a Featured Article) uses the Template:Infobox football match template, so I was just wondering if you'd considered using that template? I'm not saying I prefer one style or the other, nor that we should definitely standardise on one across all articles, but I was just curious what you thought. I noticed that has been adding the 1956-style infobox to all FA Cup Final articles, and it got me thinking about football match infoboxes generally, hence my question. Cheers. --Jameboy (talk) 20:22, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... He's now changing them all to the Infobox football match template at PeeJay's request (see User talk:Mr Hall of England). I have no strong preference either so I'll let them get on with it. --Jameboy (talk) 12:19, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Removal of fixtures from Leeds Rhinos page
Out of interest, how do Super League fixtures being listed on Wikipedia constitute copyright violation? They were listed for the 2008 season with no issues, and the entire Super League fixtures and results were posted on the Super League XIII page. Julianhall (talk) 22:07, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for the quick response! Julianhall (talk) 22:52, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank You for your review of the page. Would it be in your juristriction to moved the rating of the page to a more suitable level? While the page might require some ajustments to get it to GA status (I intend to get it there, however, I have two other ongoing nominees, Seacroft and Architecture of Leeds, one of which appears to be significantly nearer to reaching this status then the page in question), it does surely justify a better grade then 'Start'. Could you posibly upgrade this. Under Wikipedia guidelines a 'start' page offers little more then a basic outline of the meaning of the subject. The Leeds RL page offers an in depth description of the history and present status of a club with 63 (largely pertinant) citations. I would be very much greatful if you could see to this when you have time. Thank You, Mtaylor848 (talk) 00:27, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

COMS
Regarding the editing of the end of season pitch work, I edited this to the facts, rather than leave in what was widely, and wrongly reported. As a groundsman there, I think I make a good reference! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Leeboy1974 (talk • contribs) 12:51, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

"The couple had a daughter and a son, also named Jessie and William"
Heavens above, how naff is that? :-)

That's some fantastic expansion you've done today, cheers for that. I'm thinking of putting the article back up for PR again and then potentially taking it to FLC now that it's so much more in-depth, what do you reckon....? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 17:03, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, I won't hear a word said against Emlyn Hughes, I used to think he was great on Question of Sport when I was about 12. And I was reading Roy of the Rovers when he played for Melchester. :-)  Anyhow, I've pulled out a few sentences from other sections of ol' Willie Mac's article and combined them into an "Outside football" section, where I think the new stuff you mentioned on my talk page would fit nicely.  By the way, could you add a reference from your book for his kids' names, as currently the sentence is only ref'ed by the OND, which doesn't mention the names....?  All the best, ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:57, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I've adjusted the article to allow for both points-of-view in each case. As it happens, I've got the day off work tomorrow, and the church where he's buried is only about 10 minutes drive from my house, so I might amble up there and see if I can snap a picture of his tombstone to put in the "death" section........ -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:42, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The churchyard turned out to be huge and very overgrown. I had a good look round, but couldn't find his grave, and it started chucking it down with rain so I came home :-P -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:30, 30 January 2009 (UTC)