User talk:Olivesblack

''Discussion Questions for Wuthering Heights: 1)	Why do you think Emily Bronte chose to unfold the story through the secondary sources of Ellen’s narrative, Mr. Lockwood’s two visits, and Catherine’s diary? How would the story have differed if it had been told chronologically? Do you trust the narrator’s versions of the events that took place? Or are they, from time to time, a bit unreliable?

The reason why Emily Bronte actually chose to unfold the story in such a ways is because with the way the story is presented to us, we go back and forth, back and forth. By that I mean, first the story starts with Lockwood going to live there as a tenant. Lockwood actually describes the atmosphere he is in and tells the reader about the way the house seems and how the characters treat him and how they actually look like from the outside. We then start going back in time and find out how the characters became what they are now by Ellen who has been a part of the family for a very long time. So we come from the outside because of Lockwood and we then start hearing the stories from someone who is actually a part of the family from the inside This creates a sense of curiosity and wonder in a human being. It makes the story even more breathtaking because as we learn about their life story, we try to relate it to the way they are at that moment in which Lockwood sees them and we connect the past with the present which allows a better and thorough analysis of each character. If the story was told in a chronological order, it would not create the same sense of wonder and curiosity and it would be harder to connect the past with the present because the past would be at the beginning of the book while the present would be at the end. However, when it is done in a way that is not chronological, we keep going back and forth and so we connect the events of the past with the present. The reason why the author allows us to take a peak into Catherine’s diary is because it gives us a sense of how she feels also giving an overview of her own character. We in a way understand the way she thinks and feels and this ties us more into the story because we do not only hear it from Ellen but instead hear it from one of the main characters. I trust her narration because what Lockwood sees and what he reads in Catherine’s diary support Ellen’s claims. She has also been a part of the family for very long and she feels connected to them and so in this case she would know more than many others. If it had been Catherine or Heathcliff who would talk about their story I would not have trusted their narration because they would not understand their own faults, Ellen however, describes it more accurately because she almost had nothing significant to do with the story. Even though she is lived within the house with those characters, she was not one of them. It may not however be completely accurate because the events took place many years ago. If the story was told in a chronological order, it would not create the same sense of wonder and curiosity and it would be harder to connect the past with the present because the past would be at the beginning of the book while the present would be at the end. However, when it is done in a way that is not chronological, we keep going back and forth and so we connect the events of the past with the present.

2)	Compare Catherine’s love for Heathcliff with her love for Edgar: What are the defining characteristics of each relationship? Do you think Catherine regrets her choice of husband?

Catherine had many characteristics that were like Heathcliffs. Both enjoyed being naughty and causing trouble. They liked to make people mad and run away and laugh about it together when they were kids. “But it was one of their chief amusements to run away to the moors in the morning and remain there all day, and the after punishment grew a mere thing to laugh at.” They both enjoyed being together. “I’ve no more business to marry Edgar Linton than I have to be in heaven; and if the wicked man in there had not brought Heathcliff so low, I shouldn’t have thought of it. It would degrade me to marry Heathcliff; now, so he shall never know how I love him, and that, not because he’s handsome, Nelly, but because he’s more myself than I am. Whatever are souls are made of, his and mine are the same, and Linton’s is as different as a moonbeam from lightning, or frost from fire.” As noted in Catherine’ words, she loved Heathcliff not because he was handsome or because he offered anything she did not have, but because they had the same soul, they were in a way only one instead of two. The only reason why Catherine does not marry Heathcliff and instead marries Edgar is because marrying Heathcliff would degrade her and because Edgar offered something she did not have. Nelly says, “You love Mr. Edgar because he is handsome, and young, and cheerful, and rich, and loves you.” These really are the reasons why Catherine loves Edgar. He has a lot of great characteristics, but what he does not have is the same soul that Heathcliff and Catherine share together. Catherine’s real love is towards Heathcliff and not Edgar. Edgar just offers a lot and has many great characteristics which causes Catherine believe she loves him for a while. However, when Heathcliff returns, Catherine notices that her real love is for Heathcliff and not Edgar. She notices this mistake before she does. She tells him not to go and leave her. “‘I must go, Cathy,’ said Heathcliff, seeking to extricate himself from his companion’s arms. ‘ But if I live, I’ll see you again before you are asleep. I won’t stay five yards from your window.’ ‘You must not go!’ she answered, holding him as firmly as her strength allowed. ‘You shall not, I tell you.’ ‘For an hour,’ he pleaded earnestly. ‘Not for a minute,’ she replied” She does not care that her husband is going to see her with Heathcliff. She does not want him to go; she wants him to stay with her. This is why I believe Catherine would want to marry Heathcliff instead if she could go back in time because she has noticed her mistake and has known that her true love is for Heathcliff not for Edgar even though he has a lot more to offer materialistically than does Heathcliff.

3)	The characters in the novel have a great capacity for violence and hatred, and revenge is one of Heathcliff’s greatest motivations. Is Heathcliff justified in the revenge he takes on Hindley? Do you think Heathcliff’s childhood experiences at Wuthering Heights contributed to his monstrous behavior as an adult?

Hindley treated Heathcliff terribly. “A few words from her, evincing a dislike to Heathcliff, were enough to rouse in him all his old hatred of the boy. He drove him from their company to the servants, deprived him of the instructions of the curate, and insisted that he should labor out of doors instead, compelling him to do so, as hard as any other lad on the farm.” This of course roused hatred in Heathcliff’s heart towards Hindly. And because Heathcliff was only a child at that time, he must have been psychologically effected in such a deep way that those events must have been carved in his mind. He must have also lived a terrible life in the roads as well before Hindley’s father brought Heathcliff home to stay with them. “‘For shame, Heathcliff!’ said I. ‘It is for God to punish wicked people; we should learn to forgive.’ ‘No, God won’t have the satisfaction that I shall,’ he returned. ‘I only wish I knew the best way! Let me alone, and I’ll plan it out: while I’m thinking of that, I don’t feel plain.’” And it is quite normal for Heathcliff to be saying such a thing because he was still a small child. However, he wishes to take revenge when he grows up as well. “I meditated this plan— just to have one glimpse of your face – a stare of surprise, perhaps, and pretended pleasure; afterwards settle my score with Hindley; and then prevent the law by doing execution on myself.” This is wrong, and I totally agree with Nelly when she says that it is up to God to punish the wicked people. Heathcliff may not forgive Hindley…I may not have either because Hindley has caused Heathcliff a lot of pain. He could have just stayed away if he could not forgive him because of the past memories. He did not have to get in contact with Hindley and allow his hatred that has taken root to control him. Heathcliff could have started a new life for himself when he left instead of dwelling on past events that took place. Heathcliff however chooses to dwell on the past and take revenge from Hindley. It is totally an immature act and is one-hundred percent wrong. Heathcliff makes Hindley’s son love him instead of his father to a degree where Haerton calls his father a devil. He takes revenge in such a way that I really got disgusted. He uses Hindley’s son to take revenge. He makes Haerton think his father is terrible and that Heathcliff is a great person unlike his “Devil father.”

4)	One critic stated that Wuthering Heights is “truly a novel without a hero or heroine.” What do you think of this statement? Is Heathcliff a hero or a villain?

To me, Heathcliff is a terrible person. He IS a villain and at the same time he IS NOT a villain. The only reason as to why I do not believe him to be a villain is because he has great love for Catherine. And the love he feels towards Catherine really is true love. "Why did you betray your own heart, Cathy? I have not one word of comfort - you deserve this. You have killed yourself...They'll blight you - they'll damn you. You loved me - then what right did you to leave me?...I have not broken your heart - you have broken it - and in breaking it, you have broken mine." Here we understand that Heathcliff is mad at Catherine for leaving Heathcliff and going and getting married with Edgar. However we also understand something else. Heathcliff has immense love for Catherine and he is genuinely sad that Catherine did not choose to be with him. The only time that Heathcliff does act like a human being with feelings is when he is with Catherine. Nelly says, “They were silent – their faces hid against each other, and washed by each other’s tears. At least, I suppose the weeping was on both sides; as it seemed Heathcliff could weep on a great occasion like this.” This quote proves the love Heathcliff has for Catherine. He does after all have feelings other than hatred, something villains do not have. Villains do not have any feelings for anyone; all they think of is themselves. The rest of his character, I do not like. “But it was one of their chief amusements to run away to the moors in the morning and remain there all day, and the after punishment grew a mere thing to laugh at.” It is a terrible thing to do a terrible deed and not feel sorry for it. I could never trust such a person in my life. Another terrible thing about Heathcliff is that he always wishes to take revenge. “'I seek no revenge on you,' replied Heathcliff, less vehemently. 'That's not the plan. The tyrant grinds down his slaves and they don't turn against him; they crush those beneath them. You are welcome to torture me to death for your amusement, only allow me to amuse myself a little in the same style, and refrain from insult as much as you are able. Having levelled my palace, don't erect a hovel and complacently admire your own charity in giving me that for a home. If I imagined you really wished me to marry Isabel, I'd cut my throat!'” He actually thinks it would be fun to take revenge from other people, which is extremely scary and freaky. To actually think that revenge is AMUSEMENT!! But because of his love for Catherine, you can not call him a true villain because a villain loves no one while Heathcliff really does love Catherine. However, you can not call him a hero either because he has many terrible characteristics. Yet if I were to decide to call him a villain or a hero, I would call him a villain because he is closest to a villain in character.

5)	Wuthering Heights is considered by many to be one of the greatest romances in literature. Do you agree with this? What is your definition of a romantic novel? Must a great romance have a happy ending?

I have not read many love stories in my life. However, from the books that I have read, I have noticed that Wuthering Heights is very different than other love stories. It is different because it is scary. It freaks me out…I would rather die than have the type of love that Heathcliff and Catherine have for each other. Love stories do not necessarily have to have happy endings. For example, Romeo and Juliet is a love story and both characters die. Romeo and Juliet really is a true love story that makes one smile while reading it. Stories like that make a person actually like the idea of love. They create wonderful images in ones mind. Wuthering Heights on the other hand is SCARY. Its love is so weird that it makes a person HATE love. If I had only read Wuthering Heights, I would never want to fall in love at all. The words that associate with Wuthering Heights are scary, fear, hate…etc. To me, one of the scariest parts of the novel is when Heathcliff talks to Catherine and says, “Kiss me again; and don’t let me see your eyes! I forgive what you have done to me. I love my murderer---but yours! How can I?” He loves her, yet he can not even look at her eyes. What type of love is that?? I really do not understand. Those lines make me shiver and feel weird. Love can mean many different things to people; it can be represented in many ways. And to me, a romantic novel is a type of a novel that arouses a feeling of happiness and glee. It should comfort me and it should be a book that I would read to rest and relax from the troubles of the world. Conversely, Wuthering Heights is not a book that I would read to relax. When I read Wuthering Heights, I get such a weird feeling that I have not felt in any other novel. Once I stop reading, and leave it in a corner, I feel extremely happy when I look around. I think of my life and how happy I am…how I do not live between villains full of hatred and people who want revenge constantly. I feel complacent about myself, my family, my school, my friends, and my relatives. For a moment, every trouble I have feels like nothing compared to what is going on in the book. When I read normal love stories, I feel happy while reading it and not after. After I put those books down, I look around and understand that I am back to reality and out of dreams. It does not give me the happiness that Wuthering Height does when I stop reading them. I love Wuthering Heights when I stop, and I love normal love stories when I start and while I am reading it.

6)	Discuss revenge in Wuthering Heights. In what ways is it connected to love? What is the nature of love in the novel, that it can be so closely connected to vengeance?

Revenge is intertwined with love in Wuthering Heights. There is a really vehement love between Heathcliff and Catherine. Heathcliff says, '' The tyrant grinds down his slaves and they don't turn against him; they crush those beneath them. '' Here we can say that Catherine is a tyrant and that Heathcliff in a way is her slave. Catherine grinds down Heathcliff by not being with him and instead choosing Edgar over Heathciff. Even so, Heathcliff does not do anything to Catherine because of his love; instead, he crushes those beneath him. Anyone that is not Catherine can be considered to be a beneath Heathcliff, because Heathcliff is only the slave of Catherine and no one else. This is why he takes revenge on all the others including Hindley, Edgar, Isabella, etc. To Heathcliff this is the philosophy of LOVE. You do nothing to the one you love, but you take revenge on all others. And because Heathcliff can not be with Catherine because of Edgar he gets worse and wants even more revenge. He gets his revenge out of Isabella, by using her as a device. He also uses Edgar’s daughter later to get his anger out. Heathcliff’s only desire and wanting was to be with Catherine, and when he just could not be with her, because of the vehement love he had for her, he starts to take revenge to soothe himself. If he had not been in love with Catherine, he would not have taken revenge on others other than Hindley of course because they have had a terrible past together. So yes, love is what actually makes Heathcliff take revenge. Without the love he had for Catherine, there would be no revenge. So they are intertwined together to form a complex character in Heathcliff. And the more he stays away from her and is unable to be with her the more that he wants revenge from people to soothe and alleviate his pain. He does not stop dwelling on the fact that Catherine is with Edgar. By thinking of it all the time, he must have exaggerated the happiness he could have had with Catherine if she had chosen him instead of Edgar. If he really had been with Catherine, and they had really gotten married, he most probably would not have this vehemence in his love towards her, and he would also not have this urge to take revenge. He would see reality instead of dreaming of an amazing world with Catherine that may not even be true. The whole course of the novel would have changed with that.

7)	When Heathcliff visits Catherine for the last time before she dies, she says to him, “You have killed me – and thriven on it, I think.” Nearly twenty years later, when Heathcliff is approaching death, he says, “I have to remind myself to breathe – almost to remind my heart to beat!” Did Heathcliff and Catherine believe the only way they could be together was in death? Did they, somehow, will themselves to die?

Catherine says that Heathcliff has killed her and thriven on it. The reason why she says this is because she could not marry Heathcliff because marrying him would degrade her. However, she can not forget him and she keeps dwelling on Heathcliff the entire time. The thought of Heathcliff and the fact that she can not be with him in a way kills her with pain slowly. Unfortunately, marrying Edgar does not help her forget Heathcliff at all. Heathcliff on the other hand says that he always needs to remind himself to breathe and his heart to beat because he really wishes to die and he needs to struggle to live. He already feels dead without Catherine. Live is senseless to Heathcliff without Catherine. Both Catherine and Heathcliff are one soul; when Catherine dies, Heathcliff too feels dead. And Catherine is connected to Heathcliff so it is as if she is not dead either. So, she is unable to rest in peace. Catherine says, "That is how I'm loved! Well, never mind. That is not my Heathcliff. I shall love mine yet; and take him with me: he's in my soul." She also says, "If all else perished, and he remained, I should still continue to be; and if all else remained, and he were annihilated, the universe would turn to a mighty stranger: I should not seem a part of it...Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being." And Heathcliff says, "And I pray one prayer--I repeat it till my tongue stiffens--Catherine Earnshaw, may you not rest as long as I am living! You said I killed you--haunt me, then!...Be with me always--take any form--drive me mad! only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you!" They are both one and one living without the other is painful, this is why Heathcliff does wish to die because he already feels dead without her. He also wants to be buried next to Catherine, and he really does get buried next to her. If both had been alive, they would have still wanted to die to be together because they can not be with each other as long as they live. This is because Catherine believes that marrying him would degrader her and instead she gets married to Edgar. Heathcliff hates Edgar because he is the person that is in their way. However, when they die there will not be the idea of degradation which will allow Catherine and Heathcliff to be together once more without anyone separating them.