User talk:Omnigraph

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Proposed deletion of Southern Illinois Wine Trail


The article Southern Illinois Wine Trail has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Non-notable tourist trail with no reliable sources beyond WP:ADVERT, self-published sources and trivial mentions in entertainment sections of local papers

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. AgneCheese/Wine 03:36, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Please reinstate this page. While this wine trail isn't as developed as its neighbor, the Shawnee Hills Wine Trail, it's how the Illinois Bureau of Tourism markets its wineries. Also, this wine trail was specifically mentioned in legislation that passed last year to allow for the creation of Illinois' first STAR Bonds district in Marion, Illinois.Omnigraph (talk) 02:55, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Nomination of Shawnee Hills Wine Trail for deletion
The article Shawnee Hills Wine Trail is being discussed concerning whether it is suitable for inclusion as an article according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Shawnee Hills Wine Trail until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. AgneCheese/Wine 23:20, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I've added additional details to the page including citations as well as info about its economic importance.Omnigraph (talk) 02:53, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Clifford, Illinois
Can you provide any more info for Clifford? Acabashi (talk) 01:44, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

It's in my plans. I'm just trying to get something on the site for these unincorporated communities, ghost towns and precincts in Williamson County.Omnigraph (talk) 01:46, 22 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Interesting idea, and a great one if it became a Wiki project for the whole state or even the country - I guess there's not much background info though, judging by Google - do you have access to any archives that are not on the web? I would add categories to the communities and add stub templates. Acabashi (talk) 01:53, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The problem with just getting something up is that it could fall foul of Wiki creation log immediate deletes - I know, I patrol the new pages log. Best to make sure that you have at least one cited reference, add a stub template, and put the article in categories before upload. Acabashi (talk) 01:53, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

What's a stub template and how to you put an article in categories?Omnigraph (talk) 02:12, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Some friendly advice
Hey Omnigraph! While we certainly appreciate your enthusiasm for wanting to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Illinois topic, you will find your editing much more productive if you take a look at some of the links that Mailer Diablo posted for you in his welcome message above. A lot of the issues (at least from the wine article's perspective) is that you seem to be creating separate pages on topics that, by themselves, have questionable notability but if you integrated the information into the main articles (such as Illinois wine and Shawnee Hills AVA--with verifiable references, of course) they would be just fine and not likely to be deleted. But articles on tourist wine trails tend to veer too much into WP:ADVERT and WP:DIRECTORY territory. It is important to remember that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and Wikipedia is not a wine guide nor are we a travel brochure for wine trails. A perfect case in point is the Economic impact section that you added to the wine trail article. According to the sources, this information is about the economic impact of the wineries, from jobs to wine sales and taxes, to the wine region (the Shawnee Hills AVA) and is not exclusive to the existence of a tourist trail. Hence, why that material should be in the wine region article since the wineries exist and operate, creating their economic impact, irregardless of the existence of a driving trail. I hope that sheds some light and I, again, encourage you to read up on some of the relevant Wikipedia policies and guidelines. You will find that it will make your time here work more smoothly and be more enjoyable with everyone benefiting from your efforts. :) AgneCheese/Wine 03:20, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, the citations for the Economic Impact of the Shawnee Hills Wine Trail is for the wineries specifically on the trail, not the AVA. The two are not interchangeable. The Shawnee Hills AVA does not even cover all of the region (which was one of the major points in opposition to the trail). The development of the wine trails, particularly the Shawnee Hills one, has been one of the biggest developments of Southern Illinois tourism over the last decade. The success of the Shawnee Hills Wine Trail caused the Illinois Bureau of Tourism to have its regional tourism development offices to work with the wineries in their areas to develop new trails. Yes, it's for marketing, but it's not like some golf trail, or antique trail, etc., that's a brochure, a map and a list of spots along with the way. Those are here today and gone the next as soon as the original print run runs out. The wine trails in Illinois, have their own boards, and on occasion (depending on the state assistance at the time) their own staffs. They are entities in their own right. They are Illinois equivalent of the Robert Trent Jones Golf Trail in Alabama. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Omnigraph (talk • contribs)
 * Again, material that would best suited for an article like Illinois wine (which is sorely in need of some love and attention). That article would be a terrific medium for focusing on the encyclopedic aspect (like the economic impact) without being distracted by the WP:ADVERT marketing material and coming across as a WP:DIRECTORY listing from a WP:WINEGUIDE. I know you have worthwhile content to contribute but you must remember that Wikipedia doesn't exist to be a google hit for people searching for a winery or a wine trail. (There are official winery and wine tourism board websites for that) Wikipedia exist for readers looking encyclopedic material on topics such as the wine industry and economic impact in a particular area. While we can't catch everything, Wikipedia tends to frown upon largely commercial and advert articles which tend to be deleted. But articles on wine regions are very notable and can be easier to write in a non-advert WP:NPOV tone which is why my advice is to consider adding your material to those types of articles. AgneCheese/Wine 04:02, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

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