User talk:Omrim

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The Citation Barnstar

 * BTW, you can move it to your main page by copy pasting. :D --Cerejota (talk) 03:24, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Articles to start /expand

 * Reuven S. Avi-Yonah
 * Douglas A. Kahn
 * International Tax Arbitrage
 * Battle of Baltim
 * Battle of Latakia
 * Battle of Tel Faher
 * Yom Kippur War - remove the Badri propaganda
 * Battle of Budapest Outpost
 * Battle of The Jetty Outpost
 * Battle of San Simon
 * Operation Pontiac - the Jabel Ataka Yom Kippur war operation
 * Operation Horev
 * Operation Heart Knights - the israeli crossing in Yom Kippur

Replying here
Sorry, Omrim. I've no doubt at all of your good faith. It's indicated by the remark you made, which idiots might hold against you (if they do, report them, and I will back you).

Neither you nor I, nor an American, or Russian etc. can ever state that he or she knows for a fact that his own country's actions, when reported as involving deliberate murder of civilians in conflict, are untrue. The literature by soldiers in Hebrew, from Uri Avnery's 1949 memoir through to recent times, abounds in episodes in which these things have occurred among given units, under given commanders (Sharon, to judge from his biographies, was a natural killer, a rarity, but they exist). Policy is one thing. What happens on the ground, throughout an army's ranks, another. We find this everywhere in the literature, on Vietnam, WW2, Iraq,etc., after the dust has settled. I can't accept this on general principles of humanity. You are telling me that incidents like these don't occur, uniquely, because Israeli soldiers and airmen differ from all other soldiers in the world? In war one can guarantee the probity of one's own and fellow soldiers' actions, but nothing further up the line or in the air. The US army psychologists have long admitted what must be true of all armies (it was of my father and uncle's), i.e., that 5% of the men are natural killers, enjoy it, and enjoy the opportunity war provides them to kill wantonly. One cannot make a blanket defence of an entire complex military machine, anywhere on earth. In every war members of my family have been in, anecdotes of such things have been handed down, in detail, not to speak of what a reasonably wide reading of military history tells one. That said, I do appreciate you're being forthcoming, and the probity of the way you put your reminder above, re Samouni. It's just I dislike the frequency with which, in some editors, Pallywood innuendoes crop up (not in your case) whenever Palestinians report on their casualties. Sorry for soapboxing. I hope we can leave it at that. Regards Nishidani (talk) 22:45, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

missing source link
"A decisive majority of respondents support continuing the army's air campaign against Hamas targets in the Gaza Strip without endangering the lives of Israel Defense Forces soldiers in a ground off"

you forgot to link to the source on this one. thanks. Untwirl (talk) 15:34, 8 January 2009 (UTC) Will do, thanks for noting.--Omrim (talk) 15:57, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough
friend. What I meant to say that is, well, I'm speaking of my own experience of course, and shouldn't use that to give lessons, that as a person I have all sorts of strong ethical convictions and biases, in so far as these ethical principles inform me, but as an editor on wiki, or an historian, I can't let that pronounced way of thinking or acting, tilt my perceptions as to how primary evidence is to be evaluated. Gibbon's dictum that history is a record of the 'crimes... follies of mankind' is 'eventual, as the French love to say, but, at the same time, events occur through the interaction of individual and collective subjects who colour the events they participate with their interpretations that then influence the way those events play out in a complex hermeneutic circle. One does well to look at anything to see the order of events, and facts, first and foremost, then delve into the agents' mode of perceiving and acting within that framework of facts (their moral, amoral, strategic, emotive take on what has happened and what they ought to do according to these criteria). Here there are two parties, and of course I espouse the Palestinian cause and that is my bias. But that espousal must not blind me to the natural cynicism of the historian's eye, which means news of Hamas operatives handing out candy when the bombing began, or a jihadist happy to see, as he has his wounds treated in hospital, how many other people are suffering, are registered in my mind for the second dimension, that dark zone of individual and collective psychology where the formal rules and facts are coloured by emotional and ideological appraisels of events, producing the pathologies we all know about. One of the greatest of historians, murdered by the Nazis just as his career promise had been compromised by some French colleagues, wrote before the Holocaust swept him up,
 * "'Le bon historien, lui, ressemble à l’ogre de la légende. Là où il flaire la chair humaine, il sait que là est son gibier.’(A fine historian'ssomeone who bears comparison to the ogres of legend, he knows, when he catches the scent of human flesh, that there's the game he'll prey on)"

by which Marc Bloch meant, historians while committed to the intense analysis of the cold world of archival documents, find their métier ultimately in sniffing out for the raw human dimension behind the dry facts. But he can only do that if he has mastered the dry facts. To bring the human dimension, or an ethical sense of what is probable or desirable, to one's evaluation of the data, is to wreck things, and stop us ever from seizing on the hidden dimension, the complex manifold of all to human emotions, hatreds, passions and prejudices one aspires to intuit behind the bare facts. As wiki editors we are called to honour NPOV. There is no room for this dimension of ethics, or the miserable motives of actors. This is hard indeed, just as the profession of an historian is hard, because we come to the world full of our individual, class, and collective cultures, and find suspension of these elemental perceptions hard. If we learn to woo the hard material facts, there still remains the fact that our choice of the factual cannot slip through the rudimental nets of our ethical and emotional assumptions. Raul Hilberg, one of the greatest historians of the last century, was told by his mentors to leave out material he had discovered in the archives on the holocaust, about certain rabbinical negotiations with the Nazis that gave the latter the names of lower class Jews, as a bargaining chip to secure safety at least some of the community, the wealthy, the pious. He didn't. He had an immense amount of difficulty in getting published, precisely because his factual integrity refused to elide unbearably painful data as a gesture to career prospects, his community's comfort, or his personal equanimity. In these I/P articles, we are all suspicious of each other, and tend to read, and select material which shows 'our side's best side, while holding to ransom edits that look like undermining the positive image, or improving the other side's image. The Israeli will often think every page embodies a potential threat to his national image, the Palestinian side every page the hegemony of a national image that, until now, has excluded the very existence of their nation as a cultural fact, if not a fact on the ground. A little good will, which means that no one's history is free of Gibbon's crimes, follies, etc., would go a long way to providing a more collaborative atmosphere. Hamas certainly has its maniacal fanatics, its sacrificial fundamentalist ideology, but if one edits this stuff, one does well to keep in mind that on the West Bank, there are numerous rabbis of influence and prestige, like Moshe Levinger, who espouse the idea that Palestinians are descendants of the Amalekites, and piety commands, according to Maimonides' halachic rules, that they be exterminated. The mainstream press is replete with Hamas's pathological trends, and relatively silent on what is taught in Hebron. I do appreciate your civil conscience here. But one must not blind one's evaluation of realities by moral scruples in writing to the text. One must simply, esp. here, be well aware that anything one might like to edit in to show one's own side to advantage, or to cast a shadow on the other's, can be countered, almost automatically, by a mirror action by an editor whose principles disagree with your own. And therefore, rather than play with POVing the text, to make it hard for the text to be troubled by factitious evidence-stacking. This in itself requires the kind of scruple your remark exemplifies. Scruples are best applied to the close assaying of evidence, rather than to a conscience of the wrongness of the parties. On this I think we can find common ground, despite the considerable distance which separates our respective POVs. Best regards Nishidani (talk) 12:26, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Just wanted to say
that your comments on the horribly disfigured 2008-2009 conflict discussion are really good. It's a tough fight against all those biased anti-Israelis out there. Rabend (talk) 08:32, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Add to Op Cast Lead:

 * Refs. calling it "Gaza War" in the lead (after the "Gaza Massacre" sentence).
 * Darshowitz's WSJ article to the legal section.
 * Huge pro-Isreali demos (35K London) to erase the word "smaller". Refs. that most anti-israeli demos were arranged and executed by muslims.
 * Check the claim Israel rejeced truce in mis Dec. Find appearent Ynet articel quoted Diskin.
 * Add ref. it was Palestinians who attacked UNRWA convoy.
 * Section on rocket attack of civilian facilities

"Gaza Massacre"
Hello, I was compiling fromthe archives who was against using the arab word for the conflict in the, I did not see your name in any of the discussion. This may have been simple oversight on my part, but others say you were opposed. As you have been one of the more fair-minded people in any of the discussions (and I dont want to spend another hour going through the ever-growing list of archives again)I just wanted to get your opinion. Do you really think that the name the arab world has given the conflict should not be in the lead? Let me know, thanks Nableezy (talk) 19:38, 11 January 2009 (UTC)


 * i understand that people find it objectionable, and I would be cool with adding Gaza War as name used by Israeli media, but I appreciate you not just pre-judging. You mind if I quote you on the page or would prefer to stay out? I only ask because tundrabuggy claimed you were against. Nableezy (talk) 19:52, 11 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Thats cool, just other a saying that you were clearly against. I wont bring it up there other than to say I do not Omrim involved in the discussion. Nableezy (talk) 19:54, 11 January 2009 (UTC)


 * cool Nableezy (talk) 19:57, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Hey could you find an Israeli media source that calls it the Gaza War and change the part of the Israeli name to something like 'the operation has been codenamed 'Operation Cast Lead' by the IDF and widely referred to in Israeli media as 'The Gaza War'. or whatever wording you think appropriate? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nableezy (talk • contribs) 22:12, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

and obviously I think a Hebrew source translated would be fine :). Nableezy (talk) 22:15, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Could you find a source for the Hebrew usage of Gaza War? I think we are getting somewhere on the lead page but some references for hebrew usage would help. Nableezy (talk) 17:23, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

good work
I just wanted to mention that you have shown a consistent ability to adhere to the sources on both sides, and not letting propaganda from either side be reported as fact, and for that I commend you. Peace and happiness. Nableezy (talk) 02:10, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Talk page
When you revert someone, and realize it, you should explain yourself on the talk page. Seeing that you haven't, I have asked you for an explanation there.VR talk 03:53, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Grossly
"Israeli officers said that the official death toll of 42 was "grossly exaggerated", comparing the incident to one in which three IDF soldiers were killed when a tank fired two rounds, believed to have a larger impact than mortar rounds, into a building occupied by 50 IDF soldiers." - obviously the gist of this statement should be there, but in this case i myself added last night (before you did, otherwise i wouldn't do it) the same quote, and i think that in this case it might indeed be redundant. i wrote: "According to IDF officers, the number of casualties reported by Hamas is grossly exaggerated." i chose not to include the comparison part, coz it made it kinda look a story being told, and it was getting long.

my opinion is that my edit should stay, perhaps changed into: "According to IDF officers, the number of casualties reported by Hamas is grossly exaggerated, noting the type of equipment used."

what do you think? Rabend (talk) 07:00, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

new lead
would appreciate your comments at Talk:2008%E2%80%932009_Israel%E2%80%93Gaza_conflict. Thanks, Nableezy (talk) 00:47, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

link
I just saw your contrib at my special page. Keep 'em coming. I just think we need to improve the MILHIST aspect. Thank you!--Cerejota (talk) 20:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

hello
welcome back Nableezy (talk) 02:33, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Mersa T'Lemet
First things first, as the message suggests, you are invited to join the project, take part in discussions and stuff... :)

The article is nice. I actually have a source about it (Abraham Rabinovich's The Boats of Cherbourg). I was planning on doing some other articles this weekend, but maybe I'll do that also. I'll keep you posted. Cheers, Nudve (talk) 06:08, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

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re: Operation Badr
Hi. Please mind WP:CANVASS. It's considered inappropriate to ask another user to "support" you in a discussion. You should approach users in a neutral manner and ask them to voice their opinion. I have that article on my watchlist, and will rejoin that discussion. -- Nudve (talk) 15:11, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

War over the Water
Kudos on the initiative :)

You seem to have more sources on the subject than I have. BTW, if you are knowledgeable on that subject, there is a discussion currently going on over at talk:Six-Day War regarding the conflict between Israel and Syria being a catalyst to the war. Your contribution would be welcome. BTW, have you seen the recent edit to Marsa Talamat? if so, are you OK with it? it's unsourced and unexplained. Cheers, Nudve (talk) 18:26, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Article
At the end of the article, an Israeli general states the facts. Look at what he said.

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Still around?
Hi, I noticed you haven't been active for a month, and stopped working on an article you started. Are you still here? Cheers, Nudve (talk) 04:54, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Right. I've been far less active myself lately, and hope to "get back on track" soon. Anyway, I'm glad you're still here, at least for article maintenance and stuff. Cheers, Nudve (talk) 09:04, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

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Arrow (missile)
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The Bugle: Issue LXXIV, May 2012
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 15:10, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Military history coordinator election
The Military history WikiProject has started its 2012 project coordinator election process, where we will select a team of coordinators to organize the project over the coming year. If you would like to be considered as a candidate, please submit your nomination by 14 September. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to contact one of the current coordinators on their talk page. This message was delivered here because you are a member of the Military history WikiProject. – Military history coordinators (about the project • what coordinators do) 09:38, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history coordinator election
Greetings from WikiProject Military history! As a member of the project, you are invited to take part in our annual project coordinator election, which will determine our coordinators for the next twelve months. If you wish to cast a vote, please do so on the election page by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September! Kirill [talk] 16:19, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history coordinator election
Greetings from WikiProject Military history! As a member of the project, you are invited to take part in our annual project coordinator election, which will determine our coordinators for the next twelve months. If you wish to cast a vote, please do so on the election page by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September! Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 22:07, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Nominations for the Military history Wikiproject's Historian and Newcomer of the Year Awards are now open!
The Military history Wikiproject has opened nominations for the Military historian of the year and Military history newcomer of the year. Nominations will be accepted until 13 December at 23:59 GMT, with voting to begin at 0:00 GMT 14 December. The voting will conclude on 21 December. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:41, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

This message was accidentally sent using an incorrect mailing list, therefore this message is being resent using the correct list. As a result, some users may get this message twice; if so please discard. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Voting for the Military historian and Military newcomer of the year now open!
Nominations for the military historian of the year and military newcomer of the year have now closed, and voting for the candidates has officially opened. All project members are invited to cast there votes for the Military historian and Military newcomer of the year candidates before the elections close at 23:59 December 21st. For the coordinators,

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:33, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history coordinator election
Greetings from WikiProject Military history! As a member of the project, you are invited to take part in our annual project coordinator election. If you wish to cast a vote, please do so on the election page by 23:59 (UTC) on 29 September. Yours, Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 05:21, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
Hi, You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:00, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
Hi, You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:05, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Nominations for the Military history WikiProject historian and newcomer of the year awards now open!
On behalf of the Military history WikiProject's Coordinators, we would like to extend an invitation to nominate deserving editors for the 2015 Military historian of the year and Military history newcomer of the year awards. The nomination period will run from 7 December to 23:59 13 December, with the election phase running from 14 December to 23:59 21 December. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:06, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator election
Greetings from the Military history WikiProject! Elections for the Military history WikiProject Coordinators are currently underway, and as a member of the WikiProject you are cordially invited to take part by casting your vote(s) for the candidates on the election page. This year's election will conclude at 23:59 UTC 23 September. For the Coordinators, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:01, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Voting for the Military history WikiProject Historian and Newcomer of the Year is ending soon!
Time is running out to voting for the Military Historian and Newcomer of the year! If you have not yet cast a vote, please consider doing so soon. The voting will end on 31 December at 23:59 UTC, with the presentation of the awards to the winners and runners up to occur on 1 January 2017. For the Military history WikiProject Coordinators, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:00, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

This message was sent as a courtesy reminder to all active members of the Military History WikiProject.

March Madness 2017
G'day all, please be advised that throughout March 2017 the Military history Wikiproject is running its March Madness drive. This is a backlog drive that is focused on several key areas:


 * tagging and assessing articles that fall within the project's scope
 * updating the project's currently listed A-class articles to ensure their ongoing compliance with the listed criteria
 * creating articles that are listed as "requested" on the project's various task force pages or other lists of missing articles.

As with past Milhist drives, there are points awarded for working on articles in the targeted areas, with barnstars being awarded at the end for different levels of achievement.

The drive is open to all Wikipedians, not just members of the Military history project, although only work on articles that fall (broadly) within the military history scope will be considered eligible. More information can be found here for those that are interested, and members can sign up as participants at that page also.

The drive starts at 00:01 UTC on 1 March and runs until 23:59 UTC on 31 March 2017, so please sign up now.

For the Milhist co-ordinators. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) & MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:24, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

2017 Military history WikiProject Coordinator election
Greetings from the Military history WikiProject! Elections for the Military history WikiProject Coordinators are currently underway. As a member of the WikiProject you are cordially invited to take part by casting your vote(s) for the candidates on the election page. This year's election will conclude at 23:59 UTC 29 September. Thank you for your time. For the current tranche of Coordinators, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:39, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

2017 Military Historian of the Year and Newcomer of the Year nominations and voting
As we approach the end of the year, the Military History project is looking to recognise editors who have made a real difference. Each year we do this by bestowing two awards: the Military Historian of the Year and the Military History Newcomer of the Year. The co-ordinators invite all project members to get involved by nominating any editor they feel merits recognition for their contributions to the project. Nominations for both awards are open between 00:01 on 2 December 2017 and 23:59 on 15 December 2017. After this, a 14-day voting period will follow commencing at 00:01 on 16 December 2017. Nominations and voting will take place on the main project talkpage: here and here. Thank you for your time. For the co-ordinators, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:35, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

User group for Military Historians
Greetings,

"Military history" is one of the most important subjects when speak of sum of all human knowledge. To support contributors interested in the area over various language Wikipedias, we intend to form a user group. It also provides a platform to share the best practices between military historians, and various military related projects on Wikipedias. An initial discussion was has been done between the coordinators and members of WikiProject Military History on English Wikipedia. Now this discussion has been taken to Meta-Wiki. Contributors intrested in the area of military history are requested to share their feedback and give suggestions at Talk:Discussion to incubate a user group for Wikipedia Military Historians.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:30, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

April 2021 WikiProject Military History Reviewing Drive
Hey y'all, the April 2021 WikiProject Military History Reviewing Drive begins at 00:01 UTC on April 1, 2021 and runs through 23:59 UTC on April 31, 2021. Points can be earned through reviewing articles on the AutoCheck report, reviewing articles listed at WP:MILHIST/ASSESS, reviewing MILHIST-tagged articles at WP:GAN or WP:FAC, and reviewing articles submitted at WP:MILHIST/ACR. Service awards and barnstars are given for set points thresholds, and the top three finishers will receive further awards. To participate, sign up at WikiProject_Military_History/April 2021 Reviewing Drive and create a worklist at WikiProject Military history/April 2021 Reviewing Drive/Worklists (examples are given). Further details can be found at the drive page. Questions can be asked at the drive talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:23, 31 March 2021 (UTC)