User talk:Orderinchaos/Archive 2009 02

Domain Parking article
Thank you for the fantastic reply from the note that Sarah forwarded to you.

OK, I can get a screenshot of a representative Parked Domain for which an example was given at the sedo.com website.

It is an example that they use to show what one looks like: http://www.sedo.com/services/tour_parking.php?tracked=&partnerid=&language=us

The text at the bottom says:

"To view an example of a domain parked with Sedo please visit www.freefonetones.com"

As to the link for the Fang site that allows you to use an add-on for Firefox to filter domains, I had an admin block me for getting into an editing war with him three times where I insisted the link you thought was permissible should remain. You seem to say that it should be OK.

BUT, it may just be how I was putting it in was wrong. I put it in as an external site. I want to put edits in that are bulletproof so that nearly all the admins agree that they fit within the guidelines.

However, I'm still concerned that the one particular admin I've had friction with has unpractically harsh criteria and would continue to delete my edits no matter how much you and Sarah might think they are OK.

Thanks a lot for your help. I feel a lot more encouraged. Ssybesma (talk) 06:28, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

I read your 're-reply'. I hope you'll back me on the edits I make and help me straighten out any tangles to make the edits work within the 'rules'. I'm doubly committed to not giving the appearance of advertising. I have no dog in any race and I'm very neutral. I only care about the users interest in getting information and I look at everything from that point of view. Thanks again OiC. Ssybesma (talk) 16:55, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

David Ferguson (impresario)
The WP:BLP, David Ferguson (impresario), has been tagged with a lot of templates by two editors who have a long history of negative edits on this article. Could you be kind enough to take a look at the text, citations, and templates and share your views? There is also a posting on the Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard about these templates. I'm writing to you because you've expressed interest in this article before and I think help is needed about a NPOV. Thank you. --deb (talk) 19:52, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Brand
Sorry, in the edit conflict I didn't see your purpose. Go back and fix if you wish. I was just after the citations really. Cheers Bjenks (talk) 15:09, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Harold Pinter
Hi. I have been working on the Harold Pinter article (you previously commented on the proposed ban of NYScholar from that article). If you are interested in the article or willing to help out, your input would be most welcome. Best regards! -- Ssilvers (talk) 00:55, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Home and Away character list
Matthewedwards : Chat  01:32, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

db-a7
db-a7 applies only to real characters. Please restore the many character articles you have  deleted. I'm asking nicely. You know perfectly well it's unjustified. I'm surprised you did not realize people would be watching. DGG (talk) 23:39, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I realised perfectly well what I was doing, and that it would be scrutinised by the militant inclusionists. That's why I only deleted the ones that met certain narrow, defined criteria. I could have actually used G6, but that is neither here nor there. I'd also advise you that your own extreme behaviour is under scrutiny at present (particularly your email and canvassing offences) and you'd be well advised to show caution. Orderinchaos 23:45, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm a mergist, not an inclusionist, with respect to character articles. Just wanted to keep that straight. DGG (talk) 05:32, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm rather varied depending on the topic. On some (geographic places and public transport in particular) I tend to be fairly inclusionist, on others (esp BLPs and CORPs) I tend to be quite deletionist, but will vote to keep something that I can identify as notable. Orderinchaos 05:38, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed, it varies with me also. Not the same way, for I'm relatively inclusionist on Corporations, but not small nonprofits, and not   local institutions. Most of these work out in a sort of erratic compromise.DGG (talk) 06:54, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

major newspaper
saw your comments in a certain newspaper, have to totally agree with you. whilst the majority of editors are civil and resolve disputes quickly, there are a certain number that are totally unnecessarily aggressive, and refuse to back down despite consensus. oh well. this is Wikipedia. LibStar (talk) 00:07, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks :) Apparently some were amused by my graphic description, which in re-reading my whole comment to him, did kind of stand out visually. Orderinchaos 00:30, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

You could say that again SatuSuro 00:08, 10 July 2009 (UTC) And that as well SatuSuro 04:52, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Launnie
I'll fix the ref issues when I'm feeling better. Really all that happened was the Launceston City Council changed certain web adresses.  Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 08:24, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, annoying how the council has done this a few times now.  Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 11:00, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh man that would have been fun :) The Mercury newspaper is very annoying as every so often it deletes older articles sometimes less than a year old.  Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 11:10, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Tonja Dawn
You know it would have been kind of you to notify someone before removing the article. It is very inappropriate to do so without warning someone...--Robert (talk) 19:40, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * This one was brought to my attention by another user, and to be honest was a textbook application of WP:BLP1E - why should we impugn her for a minor driving offence 45 years ago, when the only reason she's even here is because she once dated a footballer and was in a car with him? I strongly suggest reading this policy with regard to people who are otherwise not notable. Orderinchaos 23:06, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Email
Hi. I just saw your email. I've replied via email, too. It's midnight Friday/Saturday right now in my neck of the woods, so If you reply I won't read it until about 8 hours from now. Regards, Matthewedwards : Chat  06:58, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh - I didn't realise AFDs had been opened on a handful of individual articles. :/ Matthewedwards : Chat  07:13, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi
Thanks for your edits to the Open Letter. Sorry not more of the material you and Liam contributed went into it (sequel next week?)...consider yourself welcome to add your name to the signatories on this week's. Things went down to the wire. All the best, Durova  277 00:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey that's cool :) It was more important to get the basic message out this week while it was topical - the main thrust of my view that we should collaborate with the GLAM sector rather than fight is pretty much intact. Orderinchaos 01:15, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

BellyLaff
Thank you so much for........"I have never been able to vote "Switzerland" before. :) Orderinchaos 18:53, 24 June 2009 (UTC)" --Buster7 (talk) 08:11, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Lar
Thanks for making me reflect on my own intemperance. Slrubenstein  |  Talk 11:06, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Re: Perth
No problem. It's an article I watch closely as I've got an interest in WA as well as Perth. Bidgee (talk) 04:01, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

A bold proposal
Can you help me make this work: Areas for Reform Slrubenstein  |  Talk 14:03, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I shall look once I return from my break. Orderinchaos 01:16, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Tony Abbott
Can you please turn temp protection on thanks. Timeshift (talk) 15:16, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Semi protected for 1 week. It's just an IP editor being a pain, and he's on Telstra so an IP block wouldn't fix it. Orderinchaos 01:14, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Deletion of Paul Coats
Orderinchaos, you provided no tag for a nomination for speedy deletion or contributed any discussion to the recently deleted Paul Coats page. Marxwasright (talk) 06:08, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
 * He did, see Paul Coats. He speedy deleted it under Speedy Deletion criterion A7 "Biographical article that does not assert significance". An administrator can delete an article under this criterion on sight, without having to place a csd tag on it first. This applies especially when the article is a biography of a living person. Your best bet if you want it resored is to take your case to deletion review. Regards, Mattinbgn\talk 06:21, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

2007 Federal election page
Hi,

I am 18 years of age and am very keen on writing up information on elections both here and the US. However iv only started recently and I think my lack of experience played a part in my information beind deleted and also being temporarily banned by you. On the 2007 federal election page, I wrote details about preferences and their impact in the senate. I didnt add a single citation, which I now realise is the reason for the deletion of my information. I had been basing all of what I wrote from the ABC website, which showed a full distribution of preferences. I have rewritten everything that got deleted however have added a single citation for each state. The citations being each state's ABC page showing preferences. I hope these citations will clear the way for my information to remain in the article. I try to take as much care as possible when i write on Wikipedia, not to mention enjoying writing information on elections. But if theres any problems with what iv rewritten, please contact me, cheers. Supun47 (talk) 02:15, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Next week
Hey there OIC - just so you know I am looking forward to next week. It will be very GLAMorous. Noticed your comment elsewhere - stay patient my friend we need lots of the patient to stay on the project. -- VirtualSteve need admin support? 22:20, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Tony Abbott
Can you protect this too? Timeshift (talk) 23:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

And Malcolm Turnbull... seems they've turned their sights to him with Abbott protected. Timeshift (talk) 13:29, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

News Limited
groan!  Aaroncrick  ( talk ) 10:05, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Pretty much they are preparing themselves for extinction then - funny bit is a fair number of their hits for historical stories come from us and those will probably shift to SMH/Age and ABC should News go with it. It's amusing too as I've been at a conference explicitly examining the idea of making content freely or publicly available online from galleries, archives, libraries and museums around Australia, hoping we can lead the way worldwide on this sort of collaboration (although Germany and the Netherlands have already made significant progress and got institutions to cooperate). Strange to think News Ltd actually want to go the other way. Orderinchaos 20:45, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Not really, It's been part of Murdoch's plan for sometime but it just didn't get the backing he wanted however for him to say that "quality journalism is not cheap" is rubbish (It's really more about profit rather then "quality journalism"). Just look at media watch on the ABC and even that shows some major sites with majorly poor journalism. Though I'll have to say that GLAM-WIKI conference has been very interesting. Bidgee (talk) 21:22, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Seems like all the newspapers down here will need an internet subscription. ABC will have to be it. 21:57, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

BKWSU article
Hi Orderinchaos,

I had to take a long break for personal reasons shortly after you arrived to help out on the BKWSU article. It looks like a number of event took place since then. Although I found some of your approaches and points of view challenging, I really appreciated that you were prepared to invest some energy into it.

I'm curious as to what you made of the whole scene. What were your impressions after your involvement?

From my point of view. I can see the article has issues which I have just tagged. Recent events on Wikipedia relating to NRMs (e.g. arbcom cases & Jossi) lead me to believe that any COI is a lot less tolerated than it was. For this reason I have abstained from editing and I am trying as much as possible to get more outside editors involved with the article so that it can't be criticised as being the work of either "devoted followers" or anti-cult campaigners. It's taking longer and more work than I thought! I can't edit it and I can't get anyone else to edit it :-(

Would you be prepared to at least add the article to your watch list, as you were doing, and/or any other suggestions you may have to get more input into improving the article?

Thanks & regards Bksimonb (talk) 11:51, 20 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I just saw the notice on the top of your talk page. I apologise if I posted at a bad time and offer my best wishes and condolences. Bksimonb (talk) 15:18, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Hope all is more well than it appears
Per your note above on your talk page. Your friends in the east are watching to see if you are okay - condolences from us in the meantime?-- VirtualSteve need admin support? 11:35, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. The last few days have been hard but will be fine in the end ... I'll tell you more offline at some point. Orderinchaos 12:36, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Barnstar
I'm sure I wasn't the only one who noticed the addition of the coord-missing tag on all those electorates but didn't have the time or the patience to revert them all. Thank you for all the work you put into Wikipedia and especially WP:AUSPOL. Frickeg (talk) 02:48, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Hello
I can see you are also a friend of Yellow Monkey so you must be a good editor...

I certainly do not think you are all unreasonable, I understand that you are all more accustomed to that template than I had thought. All I'd like to do is to be able to simply add a nice locator map to it!! It is a little frustrating not being able to edit it simply and trying to figure out how to add a map! That's why I nominated it, sorry for the conflict, genuinely. I didn't realise how many people felt so strongly about it.... If somebody could add a pushpin_map=Australia option and normal coordinates into the template to display a map I have no major problems. I think this can be discussed now at the Aussie noticeboard or whatever without hostility. I do mean good faith as difficult as it might seem to be to you but it would have been best in this circumstance to disucss it at the noticeboard first. I've also posted to Matt to show that I am not against you all as it seems, I would just simply like to be able to add a location map and simple coordinates without having to work out x and y pins. Neither am I trying to enforace a North American anglo-centric value on everywhere, in fact most of my work on wikipedia is geared towards trying to do something about the bias towards US articles on here!! Himalayan   13:12, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

OK. In good faith, can you please adapt your Aussie template to include a decent quality svvg pin locator map, either national or regional. A map included in a geo template I believe is a basic requirement whether or not the Aussie tmeplate is better suited to its purpose than a standard template. I am not trying to bully anyway, I do a lot of work referencing and adding coordintes/maps to places around the world and what promoted me was the inability to add a locator map to some of the Australian place articles. If you could include the map displayed here into your Aussie template I'd be much happier with the condition. Of late when you click the globe often because of the server it greys out or takes a while to load. All I ask is for you to add a pushpin_map=Australia (or if somebody would kindly make some quality regional svg maps like Template:Location map Australia Queensland for instance) that they by included within your infoboxes and you be able to simply add coordinates. Perhaps taking it straight to TFD was not the solution but ironically it was I who thought I would be bullied away from the Australian noticeboard not vice versa... I genuinely thought I was doing to right thing, I just didn't really anticipate that so many people felt so strongly about them. Can be move this to a rather lesser heated discussion? Himalayan   13:09, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

What I require is the following. The option to add the map and then simply add the basic GMS coordinates. No worry about x and y values just to add the following. I believe you have to add a location map option into it like the Template:Infobox French commune which also has the option to add x and y pins and just the location map controlled by simple coordinates digits. e.g


 * pushpin_map           = Australia
 * latd =23 |latm  =42 |lats  =0 | latNS  = S
 * longd =133 |longm =52 |longs =12 | longEW = E

Himalayan  13:18, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

I did read the notes. This is what confused me. "To determine the values of loc-x and loc-y, which are pixel and not geographic coordinates, right-click on the state (or the Australia one for other areas) and click 'Save As...' or equivalent. Then use an image editor (even Microsoft Paint will do) to determine the pixel co-ordinates of the desired location. Can we just simply avoid having to add pixels and keep it simple with plain coordinates? Himalayan   13:31, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

BTW I have removed my comments from the TFD and will withdraw the nomination if you can kindly discuss this with me and ensure this is installed. I just believe it was a clash of customs, you are accustomed to editing this template, I'm not, and basically I just wanted to contribute to the Aussie articles by adding a decent locator map for towns and remove the old dot maps. My intentions are right even if you disgreed with the way I addressed it initially. Himalayan   13:36, 7 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry for slow reply - it seems to me a reasonable request. Reason it didn't get fixed before was it was only there for backward compatibility - anything we use on a regular basis tends to get fixed. Lat/long is far more intuitive than x/y in my view. I'm going to be at TAFE all day tomorrow but I will look at any working implementations and find a way to get ours working. Any idea how to find uses of a variable in an infobox so I can modify any existing ones to use the new code once it's put in? Orderinchaos 13:56, 7 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh and some of the points you have raised seem reasonable too - if you could explain better what you meant about the ordering of display fields, I'll look into that also. Orderinchaos 14:05, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

I've closed the TFD as the response was rather overwhelming. In this circumstance given the sheer number who are familiar with the template then modification rather than deletion would be a better solution, I'm sorry I didn't show more respect initially and addressed at the noticeboard first... I know that if somebody was trying to delete something I had worked a lot on and was accustomed to with what was to me an alien template or system I'd probably feel the same. Anyway I hope that we can replace to x and y with a normal pin locator. Eventually I would like us to have decent regional svg Aussie locators like the recently created Template:Location map Canada Quebec for instance. That would address the concerns about a national map, particularly for suburbs being too generic. I would just like to see similar good quality svgs appearing in your Aussie infobox, so I hope it is something we can accomplish in due course. I can request that you be given assistance to add a simple pushpin map option if you require it. Anyway, take care and I am always open for that nice cold beer.... Himalayan   14:06, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

As for the parameters, maybe just a few tweaks like placing postcode and timezone towards the bottom and keeping the population and area together at the top... An idea.. Himalayan   14:08, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 * No worries, I'll look into them in about 15-17 hours from now and get that happening. Orderinchaos 14:31, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Extremely disappointed with Hesperian's response over this, I did the decent thing and withdrew my nomination and withdraw my comments to avoid conflict and then I find Hesperian overided what I had done and reported me at ANI for trying to end the conflict and work with you. I think it demonstrated clear bad faith and lack of understanding and was completely unnecessary given that I had withdrawn my nomination and cited the reasons why. I believe "no consensus to delete" was the correct way of saying keep. I'd have been completely happy to change to strong keep. Obviously I wasn't trying to be flattering, I genuinely wanted to end the conflict but Hesperian's response and shown clear lack of good faith and understanding and has inflamed ill feeling further when it had been settled yesterday. Himalayan  08:35, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't see that discussion until now and, upon looking, it appears a genuinely neutral party (Protonk) has reworked it to the satisfaction of most. I don't envy you - early in 2007 when I'd just become an admin I made a mass nomination on AfD that turned into a complete mess - the end result was so confusing and complicated that after 16 days open, I had to spend 2 days on and off working with Keep and Delete voters alike to close my own nomination in an appropriate and good faith manner which respected the consensus which had been reached (given it was a mass nom, the result was that almost every individual item had a different close!). I was amazed nobody complained. Orderinchaos 09:04, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

The reason why it is essential that I withdraw and it wasn't closed by somebody else is that I wanted people to assume good faith and that I respected your response and was intent on trying to appease the situation as quickly as possible. It is evident the result was a strong keep, I genuinely thought "no consenus to delete" was the formal way they do it. Really really not trying to flatter the situation as you have also experienced, I was just very glad to try to end the conflict that I'd started myself and think I should have a right to do so. I believe the response spoke for itself and needed no further trouble. I also tried to remove my own comments in the discussion, many of which were not particularly constructive towards what I'd actually intended. I even sent the Aussie noticeboard a nice cold beer yesterday to apologisde for trying to nuke the template and that I was keen on working with you to modify the existing one so all parties are happy. I feel a little upset at what happened since to be honest. Anyway, let me know what there are further developments. I'd rather we left that conflict in the past and moved on to what we really mean and want to see. I just want you and any other Aussie wikipedia to realise that I fully accepted your response and was not trying to twist anything. The result was a resounding strong keep, plain and simple and I respect that actually a lot more people are content with the template that I'd anticipated. So I would rather not have ongoing conflict and bad feeling. We've retained the template veryy quickly, now I'd like to work together with you all, not against. Best regards. Himalayan   09:39, 8 September 2009 (UTC) Well simply "no census to delete" was simply misinterpreted as "no census". If I'd known that speedy keep was an acceptable summary I'd have added it. Shame I was catching zzzzs when this happened as another conflicting situation would have been quickly averted. Anyway, hope you feel more up to adding the option tomorrow. Himalayan   13:53, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
 * That's cool. I accept that you were acting in good faith - to me the wording is six one half a dozen the other, but I think the concern may have related to how it may have been used/interpreted by *others* and that has been resolved now. Anyway I have almost an hour to look at this now, so I will do so. Orderinchaos 22:26, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

GANGgajang
Have noticed that an editor, User:Nouse4aname, has recently moved GANGgajang to Ganggajang, when I attempted to revert the move the user cited 'Correct capitalisation as per WP:MOSTM and WP:NC'. I've checked WP:NC and it would appear that based on the overarching objectives, using the most easily recognized name; using the mane most prevalent in reliable sources; and using the name most readers are likely to search by that the article should be GANGgajang not Ganggajang. I've also had a look at WP:NC (common names) which would seem to support my view - anyhow I was hoping that some people who are older and wiser than me might be able to give some clear directions on the correct name for this article. Dan arndt (talk) 08:04, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
 * There's been a bit of this MOS silliness in recent months - k.d. lang I believe was renamed K.D. Lang for the same reason. GANGgajang is verifiably the proper name (I have one of their singles) but I am at TAFE so can't easily check sources atm. iiNet is a good example of one that is still at an unusual yet correct capitalisation. If the common sense argument fails to convince others, George (band) may be the way to go on this one (see the lead of that article). Orderinchaos 08:24, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Category:Australian places with old location maps
I just thought I'd point out that the category should include Melbourne, which uses loc-x and loc-y, but doesn't for some reason. --AussieLegend (talk) 03:10, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I just looked at Port Stephens Council, which also uses the map, and there is a link to the category in the categories list at the bottom of the article but it doesn't show up on the category page. Melbourne doesn't have the link or show up on the category page. --AussieLegend (talk) 03:16, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * It takes about 24-36 hours for the Wiki servers to figure it all out. The only other way is to go through each known instance and click "save" without making any edit, which is the only way to force a refresh. Orderinchaos 07:39, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Looks good. Surat, Queensland looks fine now I think. If we can get hold of some svgs in due course this will be even better. Himalayan   12:17, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Would it be possible (If we can get some LGA maps made) do have say an LGA map of say Canberra so you can push pin the suburbs? Other wise it's not going to work with the state/territories maps. Just a thought though. Bidgee (talk) 12:30, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean like Greater London maps e.g Bermondsey? That would be a very good idea but naturally we'd need city/LGA local maps of suburbs.

Ahhh. One thing. Can you add the option to the templates to feature the pin label on left right above or below. This is especially for towns on the east coast of Queensland like Brisbane which because the label is on the right by default it goes off the page. Could you add the left option so you can place the label on the left?

like this:
 * pushpin_label_position =left

Himalayan  12:34, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Something like this. Himalayan   13:22, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I've updated the template documentation to include instructions for the pushpin map but any changes to the template should really be discussed at the template talk page, not on user talk pages. For this reason I've opened Template talk:Infobox Australian place. --AussieLegend (talk) 14:25, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I saw this one as a particular exception to the normal process as
 * it had been discussed quite significantly already (the stuff here falls into "implementation details")
 * essentially the changes replicate old functionality but improve it. i.e. now keying in lat/long instead of x/y.
 * Orderinchaos 00:12, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

What are you going to do about pushpin_label_position =left for east Australian towns like Brisbane?  Himalayan   10:45, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Intend to fix but it's something I'd much rather fix when I'm more well and less likely to screw it up. Orderinchaos 11:05, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism / content blanking of List of micronations and Micronations
Thought you might like to be aware that Ckatz is currently repeatedly vandalising both of the above articles. --203.214.132.100 (talk) 05:32, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Please note the supposed "vandalism" consisted of removing a single link repeatedly spammed by rolling IPs that are likely connected to the site. The site's owner is also a (former) Wikipedia editor, and the site has never been deemed worthy for use as a reference source. It was removed from Micronations in June May 2009 by TheRedPenOfDoom with discussion, which the IP participated in as an opposing party. --Ckatz chat spy  05:36, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Please note that despite Ckatz's false assertion above, there was and is no consensus to remove the external link he is now engaging in edit-warring in order to blank; in fact the current consensus supports the retention of the link, as it is fully compliant with WP:EL. --203.214.132.100 (talk) 05:49, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Please clarify the supposedly "false" accusation, given the June May 2009 discussion at Talk:Micronation. --Ckatz chat spy  05:53, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is completely unrelated to the subject at hand. Please do not make deliberately misleading posts of this nature. --203.214.132.100 (talk) 05:57, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * how about you spend your time contributing to the discussion instead of posting on talkpages, hm? :) Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 06:00, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Not sure why this exchange is occurring at my talk page. Re ID of IP - I know who it is (as does everyone else involved) and I don't see any problem with them contributing pseudononymously. I am presently sick, so it's not a good time for me. Orderinchaos 07:50, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Poll concerning external link at List of micronations and Micronations
In an attempt to help determine consensus on this matter, I have established a poll, which you may wish to review.--203.214.132.100 (talk) 07:00, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * In attempting to resolve the above matter I have established a straw poll, per POLLS. Seb az86556 is now repeatedly vandalising the poll - deleting the word "poll" and replacing it with "discussion" - while simultaneously asserting that there are "no polls on WP". When pointed to POLLS via his talk page he deleted my comment as "trolling". Please set him straight. --203.214.132.100 (talk) 07:19, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * A "straw poll" is a quick nasty way of determining feeling on an issue. It isn't a good basis on which to act but if acting on the results is not the intention then I don't see any problem with it. Orderinchaos 07:52, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Seb az86556 is continuing to behave in an exceedingly uncivil manner, by referring to my attempt to correct his overt misinterpretation of policy as "vandalism": . He clearly requires guidance from an admin. I hope you're feeling better soon. --203.214.132.100 (talk) 10:03, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Heads-up
Hi there. I'm shortly going to propose that this site be added as an WP:EL to both List of micronations and Micronations.

As the site includes the most extensive, up-to-date listing of micronations currently available from any source, I believe that it is directly relevant to the subject of those articles, and that its inclusion within them would significantly complement the existing content, and enhance their usefulness and the level of informativeness they communicate to the general reader.

However, before I iniate that discussion I firstly wanted to disclose that I'm the owner and primary author of www.listofmicronations.com. Secondly, in order to avoid any suggestion of WP:COI I intend to refrain from adding the link myself, should the eventual consensus support my proposal. --Gene_poole (talk) 02:57, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Duped?
Did you realize that this template creates a compass table ala Geographic Location? It has nothing to do with infobox settlement. It appears no one actually looked to see what the template did. I am now wondering how many people are letting voting with knee jerk reactions rather than actually inspecting the template being debated. Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 05:35, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Lillian Roxon

 * 14:20, 7 March 2008 Orderinchaos protected Lillian Roxon ‎ (persistent POV pushing by socks [edit=autoconfirmed:move=autoconfirmed])

This was over 18 months ago so I'm reviewing to see whether semiprotection is still necessary. See talk:Lillian Roxon. --TS 11:20, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Party switching in the United States
The Kiwis also have Waka-jumping. This got me thinking about Party switching in Australia. I can think of a few: Kernot being the big name amongst them, and Catania at state level recently, but don't know enough to be able to kick it off. Waddya reckon? –Moondyne 14:08, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * It's more of a tradition in Canada than just about anywhere else - usually happens to several politicians per term of government!
 * More writing notes than anything else so ask me to elaborate if something needs more clarification. In WA, Edward Oldfield was state member for Maylands who started as a Liberal, became an Independent who held the balance of power, then joined the Labor Party at a critical time. (Check the "Members of the Western Australian Legislative Assembly" series for details on dates). Our first Labor premier, Henry Daglish, did much the same in reverse. In 1917, a whole bunch of people switched from Labor to National Labor -> Nationalist both at State and Federal level around Australia (Notables were premiers or former premiers WA Holman (NSW), John Scaddan (WA) and John Earle (TAS)). In 1931-1933 a similar thing happeend over Lang in NSW and SA although those ones generally stayed on the same side of *politics* at least but just changed party affiliation to Lang Labor, and in 1950s in especially QLD and VIC over the "Movement"/DLP split. In SA more recently, Kris Hanna started as Labor, switched to the Greens then went Independent. In QLD Ronan Lee (Indooroopilly) quit Labor and joined the Greens while the serving member. Not sure if you could count this but Julian McGauran's much attacked move from National to Liberal a couple of years ago as well. A few in QLD did the opposite just after the 1983 election there. (The relevant Members list for 1983-1986 should have the details) I don't have a comprehensive list anywhere, those ones are just from memory. Orderinchaos 14:17, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Made Category:Party switching‎ anyway. –Moondyne 14:36, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Garrett switched from NDA to Labor. –Moondyne 14:38, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Although not in office - though I'm not sure if this matters? Orderinchaos 14:39, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

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