User talk:Ortonww

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Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive, until the dispute is resolved through consensus. Continuing to edit disruptively could result in loss of editing privileges. Thank you. Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive, until the dispute is resolved through consensus. Continuing to edit disruptively could result in loss of editing privileges. Thank you. Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive, until the dispute is resolved through consensus. Continuing to edit disruptively could result in loss of editing privileges. Thank you.--Z oupan 23:48, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Information orange.svg Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at Naim Frashëri. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been reverted or removed.
 * If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor then please discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant notice boards.
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 * Information orange.svg Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at Abdyl Frashëri. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been reverted or removed.
 * If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor then please discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant notice boards.
 * If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, please seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.
 * Information orange.svg Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at Sami Frashëri. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been reverted or removed.
 * If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor then please discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant notice boards.
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Frasheri




Stop removing sources. The Frasheri brothers being Aromanian does not mean that they are any less of Albanians. If you find a source explicitly refuting the claim that the Frasheri brothers were of Aromanian origin, you could add it here.--Z oupan 00:00, 9 December 2014 (UTC)


 * The source that cites that they were Aromanian doesn't prove that they actually were but "is claimed", so nothing is certain. This claim is not backed up by any reference by the writter of the book, the only one being that the village has an aromanian minority. But this doesn't definetly prove that the Frasheri brothers were indeed of vlach origin. The vlachs in Albania are actually not only known as Frasheriote, but as "vlleh", as they live in a wider geographical area as just Frasher. Most importantly the Frasheri brothers were of bektashi islam faith, which means that they probably were not aromanian as the aromananians in that village have historically been of orthodox faith. One can find a book written by an author that claims that a historical figure actually has a different origin that what was thought to be, but that doesn't mean that the theory is actually true and should be inserted on a article of wikipedia. The author has to provide reliable sources for his claims. Basically this source is also WP:OR. A better source is needed for such an important affirmation regarding the origins of a figure.
 * -In relation to the references you have provided in my page, Z oupan : Arshi Pipa (1989) "Frasher, the native village of the three Frasheri brothers, luminaries of Albanian nationalism and culture, seems to derive its name from the Vlah tribe of the ...". This does not mean anything and it does not tell us anything about the ethnicity of the population, let alone the ethnicity of the three brothers. The etymology of a place does not prove anything about the ethnicity of that specific territory. You are missunderstanding the etymology with the ethnic affiliation of the population of that place. Another WP:OR, and an unreliable reference.
 * -The other one : Basilēs G. Nitsiakos; Vassilis Nitsiakos (2010) "I have known about Frasheri since I was a small child. Our own Vlachs call Arvanite-Vlachs "Fershirots"; the term has been rendered into Greek as Farser(i]otes..." This is clearly a non reliable quote as it does not prove any connection with the Frasheri brothers. It is only narrating the story of an orthodox aromanian (also the faith of the other vlachs in village) named Gjergj and is talking about his village, Frasher. The term "arvanite-vlachs" actually means albanian-vlachs in Greek. This source is also an attempt to relate the origin of three specific personalities (Frasheri brothers) through a tertiary source which does not mention directly that these personalities were aromanians. You are clearly getting to conclusions here. Moreover I have to add that Naim Frashëri became famous because of his work "Bageti e bujqesi" and this is a small impression "You, Albania, give me honor, give me the name Albanian!" He clearly knew his own roots.
 * To conclude i suggest that the text in the articles of Naim Frashëri,Sami Frashëri and Abdyl Frashëri should be returned to their stable version. No realiable source has been provided to prove their aromanian origins. I am waiting for a reply.–Ortonww (talk) 00:09, 10 December 2014 (UTC)


 * I suppose you don't have anything against my suggestions.−Ortonww (talk) 20:56, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Fair enough then.–Ortonww (talk) 23:14, 11 December 2014 (UTC)