User talk:Osiris333

Cydonia Mensae
Hi there Osiris333. Just to say that I reverted the edit that you made last night to Cydonia Mensae. The long-form of the Soffen quotation is unnecessary, since it doesn't add anything to NASA's dismissal of the "Face". I've also restored both the full citation to Hoagland's work that you removed and the web version that I'd added, and re-fixed the paragraph's final sentence (it was poorly worded - by me! - before). Best regards, --Plumbago (talk) 07:54, 30 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I object to your restoration. For one thing, the quote you attribute is not correct. Soffen never said it was simply a "trick of light and shadow." The quote as I added it is the correct one, and it also includes Soffen's somewhat notorious claim that NASA took another image of Face a few hours later. I see no reason why this information should be censored from readers.


 * I have no problem with the format of the references, however.
 * Osiris333 (talk) 16:25, 6 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi again Osiris333. Sorry I missed your response until now.  Regarding the quote that I edited, according to the web source that I dug up (I don't have access to Hoagland's book), the full quotation is:


 * "Isn't it peculiar what tricks of light and shadow can do. When we took a picture a few hours later it all went away. It was just a trick, just the way the light fell on it."


 * My edit was just to crop it down to what I judged was most relevant (and I adjusted the grammar to fit; hence the square brackets). As it happens, the text immediately following the quote already points out that the Face's appearance persisted between photographs and viewing angles.  And, given that readers can immediately read an online source that expands on what Soffen says, I'm not sure that I've really censored things.


 * All that said, I agree with you that the portion following it is interesting, but I'd be reluctant to use it since: (a) it sounds like an off-the-cuff remark rather than a strong statement of the NASA position; and (b) given that we now have a number of high quality photographs of the Face, it's largely irrelevant to an encyclopedia article what was said when the Face was first spotted. Furthermore, I'd be much happier if the quotation, which is presumably someone's recollection of what Soffen said rather than something written down, could be tracked to sources that are less POV (both current citations are pseudoscience publications; did NASA keep a log of the meeting?).


 * Anyway, if you still think it's important to include it, we could try something like:


 * When the images were originally acquired in 1976, Viking chief scientist Gerry Soffen erroneously dismissed the "face" in image 35A72 saying, "Isn't it peculiar what tricks of light and shadow can do? When we took another picture a few hours later, it all went away". However, image 70A13 was acquired 35 Viking orbits later and at a different "sun-angle" than the 35A72 image but also showed the "face".


 * That still trims the quotation down a bit, but it more explicitly conveys Soffen's erroneous rush to dismiss the "face". While it's not essential, I'd be happy with this if we could source something more reliable than Hoagland, however.  Cheers, --Plumbago (talk) 17:01, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * P.S. I notice that you've recently added a tag to Hoagland's article.  That's fine, but make sure that you add some explanation for this in future (in your edit summary, for instance).  Otherwise it's not at all obvious why there's a problem or what it is.  Cheers, --Plumbago (talk) 17:09, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Hoagland
Your addition of the NPOV tag is unwarranted. The neutrality question has already been debated AT GREAT LENGTH on the discussion page, and many compromises have already been implemented. Please read the discussion page and study the article's edit history, then remove your tag. Thanks. --El Ingles (talk) 17:37, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

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