User talk:PalaceGuard008/Archive 5

Talk:2008 Tibetan unrest
Hi, since you have contributed to that article in the past, maybe you could help to sort out what is relevant to the article and what is not? Seems we now have an editor bent on exposing all those Dalai Lama lapdogs on wp. Regards, Yaan (talk) 17:07, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

responses to my queries

 * "A/a" is used in government circles in Australia, but not widely elsewhere in my experience, even here in A/a. Grateful to know any parallels elsewhere eg Canada..?? Feroshki (talk) 08:25, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Communist Party of China vs Chinese Communist Party
If you're interested, there's a dispute here over the naming of the party .--PCPP (talk) 04:24, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Zhonghua minzu
There appears to be a feud over "WP:PROMOTION" on Zhonghua minzu, as propagated by an IP editor. You may wish to take a look, as I won't be present for much of the time. Cheers, --  李博杰   | —Talk contribs email 08:47, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

RfC/User on PCPP
Hello. Please be aware that I have opened an RfC about the conduct of .--Asdfg12345 01:15, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Translation of Yue Fei novel title
You seemed to disagree with the translation of 《大宋中興岳王傳》 posted by an anon editor on the language board. You thought 中興 modified 岳王 instead of 岳王. So what would be the best translation then? Possibly: The Restoration of King Yue of the Great Song Dynasty? I think this would make sense as Yue Fei became popular again during the Ming. The novel was one of the first Ming era novels written about him, so the author may have wanted to "restore" his fame. I know "story / biography" needs a place in there, but I think it is implied. Then again, I am only a 2nd year Chinese student. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 17:53, 13 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the reply. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 18:01, 15 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I read a section in a book on Qing-era fiction the other day that translated the title as The Restoration of the Great Song Dynasty: The Biography of King Yue. I guess any reading is possible depending on how you look at it. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 03:19, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Upcoming RfC on Senkaku Island naming
Hi PalaceGuard008,

I am a new editor involved in Senkaku Islands and Senkaku Islands dispute page. I notice you had been a very active editor in the Senkaku Islands page in the past and provided good reasoning on your arguments. Although you may have been embittered by your experience in that page, I would like to invite you to get involved again as we are about to submit an RfC about the naming issue and again debate on changing the name of the article to something much more neutral.

While you may dismiss this as yet another futile attempt, some of us would like to give this a try and avoid making the same mistakes our predecessors did in the past (namely getting entangled with flame-wars, letting arguments derail, and not presenting ideas in an organized manner). Since you are an experienced editor and have great familiarity with the issue, your assistance on this matter would greatly help us to move this page another major step towards the right direction.

For reference, early drafts of the RfC can be found at User:Qwyrxian/Senkaku_name_RfC_draft and User:Bobthefish2. They are still far from complete. If you have any comments, feel free to write on Qwyrxian or my talk pages. Bobthefish2 (talk) 06:08, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

RfC Senkaku Islands
The RfC provides an opportunity for additional comment by other interested editors. Can you frame a constructive response to Bobthefish2 pivotal question: Even if the policy does not recommend the use of Senkaku/Diaoyu-style dual names, is our situation exceptional enough to make it a good solution? In this RfC context, please consider an overview here? --Tenmei (talk) 06:49, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Re: Chinese-English chapter translation
Thank you for translating the paragraph concerning Garuda. It looks like the proceeding paragraph mentions the Buddha saying something. Is there anyway you could translate this as well? I've compared my English copy with your translation and it seems as if the author just left that paragraph out, apart from a few other sentences in the opening.

I'm not sure if you saw my past query on the humanities desk, but I asked a related question regarding the origins of the motif of Garuda sitting at the apex of the Buddha's throne. No one could answer it, so I did a little research in to it. Per your comments on the language desk, you seem to have some interest in the motif, so I figure you might like to hear my initial findings. From what I can tell, the motif is exclusive to Tibetan Buddhism (such a strong claim is always subject to change). Tibetan Buddhism considers him to be one of the four cardinal animal guardians, which are, according to one source I read, a borrowing from Chinese culture. Garuda rules the north and the element of air, therefore, it seems only natural he would be above the Buddha's throne. Also, some sutras mention other protector deities manifesting above the Buddha's head in order to protect him and or the dharma. According to the Ambattha Suttanta, the Vajrapani Bodhisattva, the ever-present protector of those on the path to enlightenment, once appeared above the living Buddha's head to scare a snobbish Brahmin into recanting on an inflammatory statement.

I mentioned in my question on the reference desk that the motif's portrayal in Journey to the West borrows lightly from the Avatamsaka Sutra. This sutra talks about the nagas taking refuge with the Buddha because Garuda was eating them to extinction. The Buddha used his powers to halt Garuda and explained he would instruct his followers to offer him food if he promised to become a vegetarian. The author of Journey to the West was known to have disliked religion, so he put a dark twist on the sutra. In the novel, the "Roc [Peng] of ten thousand miles of clouds" is a terrible man-eating beast. Sun Wukong cannot overcome his great power, so the Buddha intervenes. He traps the bird by casting the illusion that his halo is a raw piece of meat. When it latches onto the halo, the Buddha destroys its wings. But even this cannot stop its blood lust. The Buddha says he will instruct those of his followers wishing to make an offering to the enlightened one to sacrifice themselves to the bird so it will have fresh meat. That is a quick turnaround from a vegetarian to a meat eater.

I haven't been able to find the motif repeated in other Chinese fictions, so I'm leaning towards the idea that the theme in The Story of Yue Fei might have been borrowed from Journey to the West. There is only 100 years difference between the publishing of both. One source claims The Story of Yue Fei is one in a line of rewrites of an earlier, more mainstream historical novel. Each proceeding rewrite exaggerated Yue Fei's life until the advent of the latest, which assigned him a heavenly origin. This means the author was trying to distinguish his rewrite from all others by adding supernatural elements. Most importantly, The Story of Yue Fei includes minor characters and their non-canonical descendants from the Water Margin. Considering the author was trying to popularize Yue's story and has shown himself capable of borrowing from other novels with celestial-born-human characters, it is at least plausible that he appropriated the motif's portrayal in Journey to the West.

This is nothing that I will be adding to a page given that it is original research. It is just something that caught my fascination while researching the possible influences on some of my favorite pre-modern Chinese fiction.

Regards, --Ghostexorcist (talk) 07:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I do find this topic quite interesting. I did some searching around of my own, and the only manifestations of this motif I could find are the two sources you discuss above. It is interesting that the presence of the bird above the Buddha has become so ingrained in the popular imagination now that a lot of modern Chinese Buddhist art feature it.
 * This topic reminds me of some of the short comparative literature studies of Qian Zhongshu, who applyied scholarly rigour to an element of classical vulgar/popular culture, tracing it across cultures, with fascinating results.
 * I've added a little more to the translation, including the following paragraphs which tie together the two strands of the origin back-story. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 13:26, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok, based on your newest effort, the author of my translation left out a lot more stuff. The first chapter in my English edition mentions some of the historical stuff at the beginning and then jumps to Yue's birth. Chen Tuan is cast as a sagely person, but not a cloud-riding immortal. (But now that I look back, I remember looking up info on Chen Tuan when I first got this translation years ago and he died almost 115 years before Yue's birth. It makes sense now.) I hate to ask again, is there anyway you could translate the rest? The author doesn't even focus on Yue's birth, he just picks up where Yue He is being congratulated by his friends for finally fathering a child. I need to find out how Garuda enters into Lady Yue.


 * I think I know why the motif caught the Chinese imagination. The Zhuangzi has an entire chapter devoted to the Great Peng bird. It mentions it being able to fly thousands of miles with each flap of its wings, pushing clouds apart along the way (hence the reason for the beast's moniker in Journey to the West.) He flies up on high to view the world. This sounds a lot like Garuda perching on the Buddha's throne.


 * It turns out that I am not the first person to notice the connection between Journey to the West and The Story of Yue Fei. There is a style of Emei qigong called "Dapeng Qigong." I read about this style years ago, but just now made the connection. Practitioners of the style claim it was passed down by Yue and they recall the Peng was a great beast that even the Monkey King could not defeat. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 18:24, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Fascinating. I am aware of the connection with the peng bird in the Zhuangzi, although in many ways that is a more metaphorical concept. That the great peng bird has an unimaginably large wing span also correlates with the Buddha being envisaged as a sort of heavenly giant in popular mythology and art. I do find it interesting that Garuda is depicted as very eagle-like in modern Buddhist art.
 * I will add to the translation when I can - though it will unfortunately be a piecemeal effort as I am busy in real life. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 21:44, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I understand. Take your time. I would do it myself, but I am only a second year Chinese student. My ultimate goal is to be able to do primary research without relying on the works of others. That will have to wait until my skills progress to that point.


 * What I find most interesting is that various cultures have their own version of a giant bird. The Native Americans have the Thunderbird; the Arabs, the Roc; the Chinese, the Peng; and the Indians, Garuda. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 01:05, 9 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I feel obligated to compensate you in some way for your great effort. Do you have a paypal account? I can send you some money for your troubles. You won't be able to retire on this of course, but it will be better than nothing at all. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 14:58, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the thought Ghost, but reading your excellent contributions on Wikipedia is reward enough! --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 15:20, 10 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I greatly appreciate what you have done for me. If you ever need anything, please don't hesitate to ask. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 19:19, 12 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I have a quick update for you. I located a Chinese Buddhist textile dating sometime between 1300 - 1399 which shows Garuda above what looks to be the head of Vajaprani. You can see it here. I'm still looking, but this is the earliest reference to the motif in China that I have been able to find thus far. There is sure to be earlier examples. Anyway, I figure I have bothered you enough about this. Happy editing! --Ghostexorcist (talk) 03:19, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
 * (out-dent) Hi Ghost, that looks interesting. The style of the embroidery looks like a Tibetan thangka more than a Han Chinese work to me.
 * (after some googling) - for example, see this Thangka auctioned at Christie's: http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=4568942. The notes actually refer to (what I think is) the image you discuss. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 14:00, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


 * There is a chance the work was influenced by Tibetan Buddhist art. The piece is from the Rubin Museum in in NYC. I imagine the people there know the pedigree of the textile. I am not an expert in the field, so I am in the process of contacting various museums to see if they can give me some leads.


 * I found three pictures (here, here, and here) the other day of the motif in Ladakh, India. The person who photographed these tells me the first one was taken in the famous "Lion Shrine" of an old monastery. It looks old, but there is no guarantee it is hundreds of years old.


 * I find it strange that Tibetan Buddhist artists like to portray him with ox horns. These horns tend to be prominent in demonic beings that were converted to the dharma. I guess horns represent demons in a lot of cultures. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 15:58, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
 * My guess is actually that himalayanart.org abbreviated the label to only the country - in my experience many large art galleries label pieces from Tibet as "Tibet, China" or "Tibetan Autonomous Region, China". There is also a chance that it comes from one of the ethnically Tibetan areas outside of the Tibetan Autonomous Region - you might find origin labels like "Qinghai province, China" or "Sichuan province, China" for something which is definitely culturally Tibetan and not Han. The latter is especially ambiguous since modern Sichuan encompasses both one of the heartlands of Han culture (the Sichuan basin) and one of the heartlands of Tibetan culture. I couldn't find a detailed note on the webpage. The style seems distinctly Tibetan, and if it is as old as it says it is, then it is unlikely to be from, say, the Lamaist workshops of the Manchu court in Beijing. It would be great to find out the details if you do manage to get in touch with the museum.
 * The Ladakh photos are interesting - thanks for the links. I think they help to illustrate the strongly Tibetan culture of Ladakh.
 * I haven't noticed the demon horns you mention. But what you say does make sense. The common understanding I think is that Tibetan Buddhism, in its rise, incorporated a range of demonic creatures from the pre-Buddhist religions and gave them conversion stories that turned them into guardians of the Dharma. Curiously, that is also a recurring motif in stories like the Journey to the West, where all four disciples (including the dragon-horse) were demons subdued and converted to Buddhism. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 19:26, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


 * You are probably right about the abbreviation. That is why I am contacting experts. I'm currently at my university's art / architecture library looking up various books on Tibet Buddhist art. I will try to contact the authors through the Museums who funded their books. I'll let you what the Rubin Museum has to say about the particular textile.


 * I belong to an online Chinese history forum which publishes a digital journal twice a year. I'm thinking about writing up a paper that details Garuda's origins in Hindu mythology, his absorption into Buddhism, his portrayal in later Buddhist art (paintings, statues, textiles, etc.), and how it influenced popular Chinese fiction and martial arts legends. It will be sometime before I feel confident enough in my understanding of the subject, my theories, and my evidence to write such a paper, though. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 20:52, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

I just found a picture of the motif on part of the Great Wall called the Juyongguan, which was built in 1345 during the Yuan Dynasty. Other Tibetan Buddhist symbols cover the gate. I imagine the Mongols played a large part in bringing the motif to China because of their adherence to Tibetan Buddhism. It also apparently appears in the Temple of Azure Clouds, which was built in 1331. I haven't been able to locate any pictures of this, though.

Wu Chengen was a minor official in Beijing. It is plausible that he saw these depictions of Garuda left over from the preceding dynasty and used them for the basis of the motif in Journey to the West. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 11:53, 18 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Here is a more detailed photo of it: http://www.flickr.com/photos/snuffy/2079084000/sizes/l/in/photostream/ --Ghostexorcist (talk) 00:14, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

--

Hello. It has been sometime since we last chatted. I have been doing some on-again-off-again research concerning the Garuda motif. I have been able to trace it to ancient Indian stone architecture. See this page here to read a picture essay that I wrote. The essay itself is short, but I have added subsequent research on the other pages. I haven't added any of my most recent findings, though. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 15:11, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Hiya, thanks for sharing your article! Apologies for the late reply, it has been a pretty busy time at work! Congratulations on tracing back on the origins of the garuda motif. It's a fascinating read, and I love that you have gone into so much depth on an interesting topic which gets little attention - almost fudged over - in Chinese language discourse - for whatever reason. Keep up the good work! --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 22:46, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Re: Wang Jian
Thanks for answering my question at the Helpdesk the other day! --Quadalpha (talk) 21:37, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
 * You are welcome! --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 00:57, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Big Four
Thank you for your comments; I’ve replied there. Moonraker12 (talk) 11:35, 24 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Hello
 * Just to let you know, I've re-wrtten the China section here as text; I trust you are OK with that. It makes it look less like a list page and more like an article on the term. 10:17, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Chinese throne
Do you get your ideas about imperial succession from Royal Ark? If so, I think you are misinterpreting. They give Pujie (P'u-chieh) as "Head of the Imperial Ch'ing Dynasty" for 1967-1994. No pretender is given for the period after Pujie's death, nor does the site distinguish between Chinese and Manchukou lines of succession. Kauffner (talk) 05:09, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * No, I don't know what Royal Ark is and a cursory glance at the website doesn't tell me how authoritative it is - or at least, it doesn't seem very authoritative.
 * I think it should be self evident from the article Manchukuo that Manchukuo never claimed and was never recognised as a successor state to Qing China, and any changes to the Manchulkuo succession adopted by Puyi only affects that of Manchukuo.
 * If Royal Ark doesn't even know the difference between Manchukuo and Qing China, then I think its editors need some significant brushing up on Chinese history and geography. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 10:21, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Royal Ark has an explanation for that here. If this site isn't up to your standards as a source, show me a better one. You added a series of claims, but no sources to support them. To argue that Puyi's claim as ruler of China devolved to one person, but his claim as ruler of Manchukuo devolved to a different person, strikes me as a non-obvious argument that would require a clear source. Kauffner (talk) 11:31, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * My claims follow from the well known facts which the link you put here also supports in terms of its description of the succession rules of Manchukuo and Qing China respectively, except in one crucial way: the website claims "After the restoration of the dynasty in the ancestral provinces of Manchuria..."
 * Presumably this "restoration" refers to the establishment of Manchukuo. The claim that Manchukuo is somehow a continuation of Qing China is non-obvious and contradicts what we say in the articles on Manchukuo and other articles. It is not clear where the website gets this information from, but the claim faces a number of (in my opinion insurmountable) difficulties when compared with historical facts - for example the fact that Manchukuo was established as a nominal republic, with Puyi acting as "consul", and later converted to a monarchy; that Manchukuo was not widely recognised internationally as a state, and was not at all recognised as a government of China whether as a successor to Qing China or the Republic of China; that the Republic of China was the successor state to Qing China pursuant to the terms of Puyi's abdication and had continued to exist and be recognised throughout World War II. In fact, neither Japan nor Manchukuo itself ever claimed that it was a revival of Qing China.
 * That the titles of a single family pass to different people where the rules of scucession differ is not a new concept. For example, in 1837 the throne of Hanover passed to Ernest Augustus while the throne of the United Kingdom passed to Victoria, because of differences in the succession rules of the two thrones.
 * I cannot object to you deleting my edits to the articles in question, but in the interest of accuracy in our articles I ask that the claims on the Royal Ark website which follow from its equation of Manchukuo with Qing China be treated with care, because that equation is at best dubious and, as I said, contradicts the more common understanding reflected in our other articles such as that on Manchukuo.
 * Perhaps, if you feel the statements on the identities of the ultimate successors are controversial, you can tag them with a "fact" tag or even delete them, but a confusion of Manchukuo with Qing China is, in my view, not justified on the sources. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 14:52, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Italian and Spanish on the (Humanities) Ref Desk
I noticed you made quite an interesting claim here, about the relative numbers studying Italian and Spanish. I asked if you had a reference, but you haven't been back. I know it can be easy to lose track of Ref Desk threads, so I thought I'd ask here, both for my own edification, and for the benefit of future readers browsing or searching the archives. BrainyBabe (talk) 13:50, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Chinese stuff
Palaceguard, I would like to find the box office figures of a Chinese film. How would I do that? Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 04:47, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Interesting question. Not sure if there is a single official source for the statistic. My understanding is that national box office figures are collated by certain newspapers based on statistics from five cities including Beijing and Shanghai.
 * http://www.chinafilm.com/ is the website of the China Film Corporation, and on this page, on the right, it has the current box office charts for mainland China, Hong Kong and North America.
 * The best way I can think of of searching for box office figures for a particular film would just be to google it - if it helps, Chinese for "box office" is "票房". --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 10:36, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, scratch that. According to various official websites, official statistics are released by the China Film Distribution and Screening Society (my translation), website: http://www.chinafilm.org.cn/, which releases weekly statistics, e.g.: http://www.chinafilm.org.cn/association/shujufabu/201201/10-3937.html
 * This is its "statistics" page: http://www.chinafilm.org.cn/association/shujufabu/, however some figures are visible only to members.
 * I still think that the best way to find overall statistics on a particular film is to google it. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 10:42, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

South Tibet/ Arunachal Pradesh / Arunachal Pradesh dispute / South Tibet dispute
As a participant to previous discussions at the South Tibet/ Arunachal Pradesh / Arunachal Pradesh dispute / South Tibet dispute talk page, you might be interested to participate to the following poll. Thanks, --Pseudois (talk) 04:34, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

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Barefoot lawyers
This edit represents a good compromise, I think. I'm not sure it's appropriate to redirect barefoot lawyer -> barefoot doctor, however. I think I might create a page for barefoot lawyers. Please feel free to contribute. Homunculus (duihua) 16:33, 30 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Not sure if you were watching my talk page, but I started the article Barefoot lawyer a couple days ago.  Your contributions are most welcome. Homunculus (duihua) 00:59, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Silk (disambiguation)
I have three aims with the QC entry: 1. concise 2. lawyer rather than barrister (simpler, more international?) 3. base on article wording. Your version goes against those. "appointed" is from the article, what's wrong with it? Widefox (talk) 21:30, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

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King Gong of Zhou
Would you mind adding what you translated into the article on King Gong of Zhou? Thanks.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 15:41, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Also there are many one sentence additional info on the Chinese version on each article of the Zhou kings, especially the later Eastern Zhou kings that can be translated and added onto the English wikipedia, which would vastly improve them.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 16:36, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

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Chiang Kai-shek Memorial Hall
The article Chiang Kai-shek Memorial Hall, i restore it, because there is some unicode control characters, so just See the comment and stop your Stop your nonsense destruction. Quickbest5t6 (talk) 06:16, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
 * You are deleting content wholesale with your edits. I don't know what unicode control characters are, but if you are making a good faith edit, please go into the article and do it properly instead of blanking out half the article. If you have problems with the content, raise it on the talk page, do not delete it by stealth --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 09:36, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Copyangry7fcvc
I think user:Copyangry7fcvc may be a sock puppet of user:Quickbest5t6. I left a message on user:SchmuckyTheCat's talk page. He used to be a real go-getter for sock puppets but I don't know how often he checks in these days. Readin (talk) 06:39, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with your assessments - that user is editing some of the same articles and making the same edits. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 16:35, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Warning ,STOP YOUR Vandalism
THIS IS WARMING FOR YOU, STOP YOUR Vandalism ,NOW YOU HAVE Violation the NPOV IN The article OF Chiang Kai-shek Memorial Hall. STOP YOUR Vandalism. OR YOU WILL BE block. If you have problems with the content, raise it on the talk page, do not delete it by stealth .Quickbest5t6 (talk) 10:40, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh boy, I'd like a bit of warming, especially in this cold weather. Can I have some too? --  李博杰  &#124; —Talk contribs email 12:35, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * LOL.
 * I love hearing my words played back at me, would have been nice if they weren't garbled.--PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 23:18, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

In response to your comment on Quickbest5t6's talk page, all the letters, punctuation, Chinese characters, digits, Japanese kana, Korean characters, etc. that you see in text have to be represented in the computer as a series of 1s and 0s. In the old days this was most commonly done for English using ASCII. In general each letter/punctuation mark/number was represented by 8 bits (a bit being 1 or 0). This limited the number of characters to 256, which isn't enough to represent all the Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Cyrillic, Arabic, and Greek characters (and whatever other characters in different languages). To make computers and the internet more friendly to the rest of the world, a new standard was invented called Unicode. When you see benlisquare's Chinese signature, I assume he's using Unicode. I frankly don't understand why Quickbest5t6 would complain about the use of Unicode in the article (other than that he was simply being disruptive, or perhaps he has a really old operating system). Readin (talk) 23:36, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks Readin for the explanation, that was helpful. I think Quickbest5t6 took the reference to "unicode control characters" from the previous edit by Yobot on the same page that came after one of Quickbest5t6's, in which Yobot seems to have substituted some pinyin characters for other pinyin characters (I couldn't tell the difference), which I had (in my haste) initially reverted along with Quickbest5t6's edit. I guess Quickbest5t6 was using restoring Yobot's edit as a front for restoring his or her own mass blanking edit. I am not sure Quickbest5t6 knew what "unicode control characters" are him/herself! --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 23:59, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure his edit had nothing to do with Unicode control characters. That is, unless it's secret talk for deleting giant paragraphs. --  李博杰  &#124; —Talk contribs email 11:05, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Yikes
A few years ago could you have imagined that we would be on the same side of a bunch of arguments about the Taiwan article? Readin (talk) 15:43, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Haha, too true. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 16:02, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

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 * names of the two roads made up "Zhonghua Minguo", or "Republic of China" in Chinese . (The northern half was renamed "Renmin Road" ("People's Road") in 1950 by the new [[Communist

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Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 09:51, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
 * ] or Manila. Many of those who remained were imprisoned by Communist authorities.  These in  alclude Cardinal Ignatius Kung (Gong Pinmei), who spent decades in prison, and Father Chang-min "

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Bund Tunnel
Hey, thanks for your recent contributions to Bund Tunnel. I agree with everything you put, but you added major paragraphs of content without any references/citations, including some that would especially need citations, such as the tunnelling method used, as well as the criticism of the Wusong Road Bridge being an eyesore. Thanks.  Heights (Want to talk?) 23:01, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, an addition. Could you find a reference that indicates the Wusong Road Bridge was demolished after the Bund Tunnel opened. If memory serves me correctly, the Wusong Road Bridge was closed and demolished in late 2009, while the Bund Tunnel opened in early 2010. There was a period of time where none were in operation and buses were rerouted to use Tiantong Road and Zhapu Road bridge southbound and the Garden Bridge northbound, a period of incredibly horrendous traffic conditions in that area at that time.  Heights (Want to talk?) 23:06, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

List of Whips
I have created a list of Liberal whips with an eye toward creating lists for each party. Please comment on the best way to incorporate it into the article space at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Australian politics. -Rrius (talk) 04:01, 4 August 2013 (UTC)