User talk:Pawnkingthree/Archive 1

Invitation
Hi Pawnkingthree,

Here's an invitation to visit WikiProject Japan. There, you can meet other Wikipedians working on articles related to Japan. You'll find lists of new articles, projects, and links to resources such as


 * Manual of Style (Japan-related articles), with decisions the community has made about how to format articles
 * Template:Newest Japan-related articles, where you can list the articles you create so the community can see them
 * Portal:Japan, a collection of resources on Japan
 * Japan-related topics notice board, for notifying the community of topics of interest

Regarding your addition of articles on sumo wrestlers, Wikipedia welcomes content on sumo. We hope you are taking special precautions, however, to avoid copyright violations. Recently Wikipedia was found to have some hundreds of articles that duplicated the contents of somebody's Web site. It's good to use external sources, but it's very important to avoid copying from them. We trust you're respecting the copyrights of authors and avoiding copying, and we encourage you to continue writing original articles, and verifying the content by looking in authoritative sources.

Thanks again for contributing to Wikipedia!

Best regards, Fg2 05:03, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Akebono Tarō
Hi. Several editors have been reverting your edits to Akebono Tarō due to its lack of references. All you have to do is find a good source for the information, like a reliable newspaper, magazine, or even a good website. Let me know what you decide to do or if you need help. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 05:10, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your hard work and help in sourcing Akebono Taro. XinJeisan 20:51, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Sumo
Please come to WikiProject Council/Proposals and go to 1.116 and sign up for the Sumo Wikiproject! XinJeisan 16:55, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Adding, Improving, Updating Wrestler articles
Also, I have been working with Csernica, on improving his snazzier version of the tourney table. I think they could be an improved addition to the articles. My only condition was I don't want to reenter data for any tables I have already finished. Anyway, here is what our dialog has produced so far: User:Csernica/Sandbox/Sumo. Feel free to chime in if you have time.Malnova 23:44, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for adding in all those infoboxes Pawnking, I don't know why my motivation with sumo articles stops at info boxes. I did do one wrestler's infobox last week I think....but I have already forgotten whom. Malnova 10:52, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I often use Japanese sites for tournament records (even when I credit English sites). Japanese wiki does not have Mitoizumi's record. I remember finding Konishiki's record somewhere in Japanese. If you want English records, you might have to look around a bit.Malnova

Don't mean to beat a dead horse, but little changes like changing "sat out" to demoted to Juryo means you are checking things closely and taking them seriously, and it is highly appreciated! Malnova 09:40, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I noticed you have made an article for most (every?) remaining May banzuke Makuuchi wrestler. I have been adding tourney tables to them. Did you by chance, make Hochiyama's? I can't seem to find him if you did. Thanks. Malnova 06:57, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for making Kaiho's article. I have been meaning to get around to it, because he was (for me anyway) the most glaring active rikishi w/o an article left. A totally non-wikipedia question, but I am curious about Azumazeki beya. I was reading your ref article for Ushiomaru and saw he is the choice to take over for Takamiyama. I can't help but wonder why it's not Takamisakari. Sakari is older and (so far) more successful in sumo. Strange. I can't help but wonder if it's not b/c he's kind of goofy. I know there could be a lot more issues. Heck, maybe Sakari doesn't even want it. But I am still curious. Malnova 22:08, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I just realized you are doing work with the on the historical yokozuna as well. Kudos. Anyway, Tanikaze Kajinosuke who was active in the 1700s according to the article, lost his only bout 1982. I assume this a typo; 1782 maybe? Either that or he lost his only bout very posthumously! Hee. Malnova 20:10, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

No problem, I wasn't even sure if you added that particular info or not. You have probably seen it, but I went in and reffed your two tourney tables for Kitanoumi and Taiho. I used ja.wikipedia. If you don't like this ref, you can change it. K and T definitely needed tourney tables. I am trying to keep a list of all of the tourney tables, thinking it might be helpful in the future. Would you mind letting me know if/when you add one in the future? I usually notice, but I might miss one now and then. I have seen and duly recorded all of the other tables you have added I think. While I am here, I might as well go up higher in this section and update that list of tables I put up there a few weeks back. Malnova 21:00, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I just found (and reffed) Kaiho's tourney table. Thanks for that. Kaiho is easily one of my favorites. Malnova 21:06, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Heya - I take it back, maybe it's more fun finding your tourney table (and other!) updates on my own, and getting a nice surprise. Just found Takamiyama and Terao (among others) If you can tell me where you found Takamiyama's tourney record, I'll ref it for you (or you can do it yourself if that's faster). He has no record on ja.wikipedia. His entry on ja.wikipedia is suprisingly short! Malnova 21:25, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

No problem about Hakuho's pic. I think part of the problem was that yokozuna had been italicized in the jpg's title, so wiki couldn't find it. The over-zealousness in italicizing may have been my fault from a previous edit.

Thanks for Jumonji's tourney box (and article). He's got a special placed in mine and my son's heart because we visited his heya (because it's right next to the Kokugikan) on a whim before a tournament, and he started talking to my son and was really friendly towards him. Malnova 00:04, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Hey thanks for the infobox on Akinoshiima. Were you making a tourney table? I was in the middle of making one, but I don't want to duplicate our efforts. I'll wait on finishing it before I hear from you. Oh, and BTW, if you ever do make it to Japan, let me know, and we can see a basho together. Malnova 22:13, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the refs PK3. After you did this, I went in and found a new link for a dead one the administrator on our article posted about. Now I have contacted him and asked for another assessment, so hopefully we can lose that last tag. Watched the first day of the tournament today. For the first time maybe ever, I actually felt kind of sorry Asashoryu. I think his unshakeable confindence he has had for so long has been, um, shaken. Malnova 19:54, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

I was afraid I might be giving something away when I wrote that. A lot of people don't want to hear results before they see it for themselves. Hope I didn't ruin anything for you. Asashoryu hasn't been the underdog since forever. It will be quite interesting to see if he can get his confidence level back. Malnova 20:09, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Hey, one more thing. Though it is great to find another table has been put up here and there (I found one more a few days ago), I am afraid I am going to miss some. When you add a table (or even just an infobox) could you remember to update the "active wrestler update" list? I think it will help us a lot in the future keeping articles up to date. Hopefully this task won't be left to just the two of us as these article increase! Also, if there are any active wrestlers with tourney tables or infoboxes that are not on the list that you know of, would you mind adding them? Malnova 20:19, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Seeing all your latest additions and errata corrections, the "award" at the top of this section was long overdue for an update. Anyway, I deleted the list of active rikishi with tables that I had pasted here because now it only reproduces info on the project page. However, I am also trying to keep track of retired rikishi who have tables/infoboxes. So I decided to make a sub-page of the project page which lists "completed" retired rikishi articles. You can find the link for it under "retired rikishi that need attention" on the sumo project page. If you know of any others that you have added, could you add them to the list? I originally was going to put the list up right here on your page, but then I realized the info should be shared and that hopefully it might inspire others besides us to make some additions. Malnova 18:50, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

There's just no stopping you eh? I haven't done much the last several days besides move some info around. I am thinking my next project might be trying to merge the sanyaku titles into one article and see how it looks., so someone who looks up that "yokozuna" word they heard might incidentally find out something about the other ranks  and gain a deeper knowledge, yada yada. Anyway, I hope people stay involved besides just us.

I hadn't noticed someone else making heya articles, that's encouraging. Actually, more than sanyaku as I said, I was thinking of making a combined article titled something like "sumo ranks" or "top division sumo ranks" so I could include all the ranks down to maegashira "safely". If I used the simple title "sumo ranks" or something similar, it could be mentioned that Juryo on down uses a simple numbering system for "ranks". Anyway, still a simmering idea. I wasn't sure about combining the division articles into one, but am happy with the results. The strange thing about that article is that "makushita" is by far the largest section, when you would think it would be makuuchi. But I guess makuuchi gets lots of explication in other places. Malnova 15:34, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Yep, this has got me thinking (again) that we need more common use pics for the articles. I do live in Japan, and I go to see a basho once or twice or year, but I have never been much of a photography buff and the pictures I take are not good enough for an article appearance. There must be some place/site/person out there willing to put up pictures for free use... I saw your Futabayama additions. Looking good.Malnova 23:11, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

I hadn't taken a look at the "active wrestlers" list in a while and saw you have kept it up to date. I think it might be worth putting this list in a "related articles" section at the bottom of individual wrestler's article and maybe even in other places to give a chance for people to find this list and maybe link on other wrestlers' articles. I was also wondering if it might not be easier to list the wrestlers by highest rank achieved instead of current status, so as to make for less editing for whoever is maintaining the list (currently you). But that is a minor point.

Ha, interesting that you should ask! I was at work, so I haven't seen the bouts yet and know NO results. I will watch sumo digest tonight at 11:30 and see everything. Your question makes me want to speculate that Kotomitsuki won, but I'll just have to wait and see. I'll let you know after I see the bout how it went. Thank you for asking in the way you did, or you might have told me the result. Malnova 12:34, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Just saw today's bouts. The excitement level from the audience was palpable (they tend to get more excited down south than in Tokyo anyway). I was suprised how psyched up and confident Kotomitsuki looked before the bout (always something to watch for). Hakuho generally takes his tachi-ai and sumo in general slowly and gradually takes control. I think Kotomitsuki was counting on this and was having nothing of it. He moved in right away and spun Hakuho around to give himself a chance to get his hand on Hakuho's belt right away. It was careless of Hakuho to let him get in there so easily, really. He kept Hakuho off balance and waited for a lapse in his concentration and pulled one of his patented uwatedashinage tricks. It was beautiful; just looked like he was walking Hakuho one handed to show him the door. It quite a short match, maybe 10 seconds, and Kotomitsuki was always in control. I think Hakuho underestimated Kotomitsuki. Kotomitsuki wants to go for the whole shebang, not just Ozeki. He was so happy in his interview he couldn't wipe the smile off his face, though he kept trying to look stoic. Malnova 15:25, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Gah, I missed it too! Go figure this was the one night where I couldn't get home in time. If you have an info-sumo.net account you can see all the makuuchi bouts there, but it's not the same as seeing it live. The only minor difficulty with that site is if you don't know French, but it's worth it for the video. TCC (talk) (contribs) 00:22, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry about it. It may have reduced my surprise a bit, but it heightened my speculation going up to and during the bout, so things evened out. Great bout. Mitsu is really stealing Haku's thunder. He usually chokes around this point when he is doing well in a basho, but beating Hakuho is a turning point (hopefully). Malnova 22:11, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

You asked a question somewhere about oyakata and toshiyori. My understanding is that toshiyori is automatic on achieving either sekiwake or komusubi. This means you are guaranteed holdings in the Sumo Kyokai (whatever that means exactly). Oyakata is not automatic. That is a paid position that your heya can give you as a coach for junior wrestlers. I suppose if you are successful, it is pretty automatic, unless there are already a lot of oyakata in your heya. I know some toshiyori choose administrative positions within the assocation instead of becoming an oyakata. I think when you are made a toshiyori even if you don't work for the Association in any capacity you are still a nominal member (with some financial incentive) even if you don't have a career with them. Malnova 06:19, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Hey long time, no edit. I have been back in Japan about two weeks. However, an emergency is sending me to the US for a week in a few days, and I won't be able to help update wrestlers (at least not for another week or so after that.) Take care, Malnova 11:51, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Hey PK3, thanks for the edits to the Wakakirin article I just added. Wakakirin, young giraffe, some name, huh? Anyway, thanks for all your work recently. ACSE has been hard at work as well. I haven't made much more than adjustments recently, but I will be on hand to help you update after the November tournament. Take care. Malnova 18:38, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Sure, let me know and I'll cover the ones you give me. The least I can do. FourTildes (talk) 21:11, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

OK FourTildes (talk) 10:42, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I forgot about banzuke updates again didn't I? You think I would have been clued in. If there are still some left to do, tell me who/where they are, and I can do them, no problem. FourTildes (talk) 21:34, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Updating and new wrestler articles
When I was updating, I was wondering: How useful is the current rank field in the infobox? It is one more thing to update, and it is information that one can get from the Basho box as well. If we did indeed keep it, I think it should read Current Rank to make it more clear, as rank changes quite frequently (at least below Ozeki).

Also, it's a lot of work keeping up with guys coming up into Juryo, no? I am wondering if we should concentrate on Makuuchi as they come in (as with Wakakirin). I suppose you have been doing that ad hoc anyway. I say this partly because I know I am not much help with these articles, as I enjoy compiling and organizing articles more than I enjoy making individual small articles. FourTildes (talk) 05:46, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Ken Yuasa
Thanks for the sprucing up edits to my Ken Yuasa article. What is "default sort" anyway? I have seen it around, but don't know what it is or does. Thanks. Malnova 01:35, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Nathan Strange
Thanks for your comments. I've been wanting to write an article about him for years, but only found a decent reference a couple of days ago. I think he must be the only rikishi to have an article in the English wikipedia but not in the Japanese! Interested to see what more information you can add about him. --Auximines 16:25, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Trophy
I'm going to set up my enforced wikibreak to end on senshuraku in september....thanks for the kind words.XinJeisan 09:37, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Asahikuni Masuo
Hi. You are off to such a great start on the article Asahikuni Masuo that it may qualify to appear on Wikipedia's Main Page under the Did you know... section. The Main Page gets about 4,000,000 hits per day and appearing on the Main Page may help bring publicity and assistance to the article. However, there is a five day from article creation window for Did you know... nominations. Before five days pass from the date the article was created and if you haven't already done so, please consider nominating the article to appear on the Main Page by posting a nomination at Did you know suggestions. If you do nominate the article for DYK, please cross out the article name on the "Good" articles proposed by bot list. Also, don't forget to keep checking back at Did you know suggestions for comments regarding your nomination. Again, great job on the article. -- JayHenry 20:05, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Sumo infobox
Nope, it was a typo that I somehow didn't notice. I added a parameter for a retirement date, but left an angle bracket off a tag accidentally. It should have shown up everywhere I looked, but I didn't notice it. I really shouldn't try to code when I'm that sleepy, even something simple like this. TCC (talk) (contribs) 22:36, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Sumo beya
Hiya. To try to direct more attention to all the work you are doing with sumo beya, I thought it would be good to take your list from WP:Sumo and turn it into a List of sumo beya article. I have already redirected a number of possible alternative names there, and put the list in a number of articles under See also. The list could use some sprucing up. I think one thing would be to maybe make the list into a table with the group/ichimon it belongs to (while also keeping the stables in alphabetical order to make them easy to find.) We could also make a third column with other tidbits of info maybe. I'll still put a little more work into it, but take a look. Hopefully people will find it, and be enlightened and maybe even add some info of their own. Malnova (talk) 01:01, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Forgot to add that another idea I had was redirecting a the heya to the list and including the heya info there, as the heya info is pretty skimpy anyway. I also intend to help with updating the basho results as of tomorrow (my time). I am not sure if it's worth asking for help. How about I do juryo and you do makuuchi? We can hack out former juryo/makuuchi active wreslters as we get to them. Malnova (talk) 01:03, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Lots of stuff from me in one day, eh? I just remembered a User name I created about a year ago that I never got around to using. After spending close to a half an hour trying to remember the password (amazing what we do with our time no?) I managed to get it and I plan to start using it (even though my Malnova user name has been around longer). I'll be User:FourTildes from this post onward. Let me know about the splitting Juryo and Makuuchi idea. Malnova (talk) 08:36, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I'll take juryo. If you have any alternate ideas about how to handle the heya let me know. I have noticed we tend to be the same mind about sumo issues anyway, and I am open to ideas. The list could just as easily be under the heya article. Speaking of content itself: We could alternatively list the heya by their ichimon, but I thought it might be easier to follow an alphabetical list (there might even be some way we could list both ways). There is also the issue of whether to use heya (beya) or stable. The trend has been to use the word stable in the heya articles, and it seems like a nuisance to switch them all over unless someone starts making a fuss about it. I am fine with calling them stables for now as article titles. FourTildes (talk) 09:42, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi. Yeah, good stuff with the heya. I think we will be seeing increasing heya mergers as well, as they struggle to stay solvent. A table for the heya might also be something to consider in the future. FourTildes (talk) 20:45, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Updating
Hey PK3, when I offered to do Juryo, I completely forgot that we don't even record wins/losses for Juryo (even though it was me/myself who set this precendent when I first started making tourney boxes!). All I have to do is put the Juryo code in for all the Juryo guys. It wasn't my intention to give you the bulk of the work. If you need any help with Makuuchi, let me know. I see some "good samaritan" has already done Hakuho for you... FourTildes (talk) 10:23, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I completely forgot about updating until now, where is a good place I could start? BTW, I went to see a day of the tournament, last Tuesday I believe. It was the first time I have ever went that something big happened (which was Hakuho losing to make the race to the yusho much more exciting for everyone). I also decided to stand outside and try to get a few pics of wrestlers as they walked by, so we could put them up on Wikipedia, but I am having a little trouble with the pics. FourTildes (talk) 06:31, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi again, yeah I can do all the maegashira, no problem. And we'll see about those photos eventually. FourTildes (talk) 09:35, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

New list
Hey, saw your user page on the way here. Pretty humble. You have started and/or improved a lot more articles than that. Kudos. Anyway, I was thinking of more ways to get sumo articles exposure, and I just put up a List of past sumo wrestlers which is for now simply a compilation of the lists on the project page. It could probably use some sprucing up and definitely needs some categories. I can get to them later, I have to run for now. Let me know what you think or if you indeed think it is a worthwhile article. This article could easily be put into all sumo wrestlers' articles under "See also" I think. Take care. FourTildes (talk) 06:43, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking by era was a good way to go as well. We think uncannily alike on these issues. I think it would make the layout more interesting as well as informative. I'll give it some thought and maybe take a crack at it. FourTildes (talk) 09:42, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

I have started grouping the "past" wrestlers by era. Just thought I'd let you know on the off chance that we might be repeating each other's work. FourTildes (talk) 21:10, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I have sorted the past wrestlers by "era". What do you think of the setup? I am not sure if it's optimal, but there it is. I noticed that a lot of former yokozuna (especially those from antiquity) are not listed. Should we list them? Most of them have somewhat sparse bios, but I still think we could list them. FourTildes 02:16, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree about listing any former rikishi with an article. Let's see, I see what you mean about the era they were most active. But of course, simply listing them by when they started is less ambiguous. We could list them as is but with an extra addition next to their name in brackets that shows the years they were active. I am also thinking that a table might look better and allow more info to be entered about each wrestler. Having said all this, my job will be getting busier starting this week and I am going to the US to visit family for Christmas after that, so things may go on the back burner, as they say. FourTildes 23:41, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Hey there. Actually I am watching right now. Asashoryu just came out with other upper wrestlers for the welcome speech by the head of the Sumo Kyokai. I miss him more than I expected I would. You know, I always forget that the updates after the banzuke comes out also need to be done. I can help you with that next time around as well. Take care and enjoy the sumo! FourTildes (talk) 06:36, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I Saw Her Standing There
Thanks for catching the vandalism in the song article. MMetro (talk) 05:58, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

The Beatles' Quiz
You might like to answer or add a question to this page. --Answer that One (talk) 13:02, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Chess
Welcome to the WikiProject Chess ChessCreator (talk) 11:27, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

My 60 Memorable Games
Great job on My 60 Memorable Games. I've long thought wikipedia should have an article on this book. I could have had a go at it myself, but I'm glad you did it because your article is better than one I could have written. (Yeah, I know that wikipedia is a collaboration and other editors would have improved what I wrote, but your article is still a better foundation, and hardly needs improvement.) I will try to track down one funny story about Fischer trying to withdraw the book before it was published: Fischer was told that it was too late, as the plates used to print the book had already been made. Fischer offered to store them in his apartment, but when told that they weighed several tons relented and said that it didn't matter since the world would end soon anyway. Quale (talk) 21:11, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Article criteria
I was thinking of starting a Sakaizawa article, but then I started looking around. As I am sure you well know, there are wrestlers such as Towanoyama who made one dismal Makuuchi appearance and dropped back down for who knows how long; and yet he (and others) still have to be updated every month. I was thinking maybe we should have some more realistic criteria for up and coming wrestlers to get articles. Maybe something like: 3 consecutive Makuuchi appearances before we bother with an article. How's that sound? I suspect you are already doing your own wait and see approach with new makuuchi guys anyway. I am continually amazed at your thoroughness. Yep, I missed Kotoshogiku's update (even though he is one of the more exciting guys to be watching right now.) Thanks. FourTildes (talk) 21:05, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

No worries, I'll do what I can do. I am off work from tomorrrow, so I have the time. FourTildes (talk) 18:05, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for chatting me up about the new banzuke. I hadn't noticed they had brought it out yet. I'll take a a few minutes perusing it with my morning coffee I think. I looked up Kotokasuga. His name is Kotokasuga Keigo with no "u" on the end. See you on the flip side of the basho no doubt. FourTildes (talk) 19:57, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Desprez Opening
Thanks for the interesting addition to Desprez Opening, including a reference. Quale (talk) 15:38, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Jan Timman
Thanks for working on Jan Timman. Of the recent important top players, his article may have been in the roughest shape. Quale (talk) 14:40, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The page was really kind of embarrassing, although I certainly could have done something to make it better. There should be many sources, so eventually with work it should be a pretty good bio.  The observation about his opening repertoire is interesting, so I hope we can source it and include it. Quale (talk) 15:08, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Daughts
Hih ! You told me to discuss first ! For including daughts, chess , go , and backgammon in sports ! I would like to do this ! I want to discuss about this " sports " !

Blanking
Thanks for signing your post; I've seen you around a lot and know you're one of the good guys here. I am aware of the blanking thing, yes. The issue was his edit warring, and I felt he was trying to hide an ongoing discussion of his behavior, thus the revert. He'd also left a couple nasty comments with his reverts directed at me, then what I took as a threat designed to bully me into letting him do as he pleased, thus the discussion you found your way into. If he wants to vanish, more power to him, but that was never stated or clear that was his intention. I appeared to me he was just playing a classic playground bully game of prodding someone, then playing the victim when they respond, thus a couple of his comments. Eh, it's past tense now. Moving on... --Drmargi (talk) 13:38, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Expanding
I had thought about expanding the tournament winners for a while, just had to sit down and do it. Though other sources go back much further, the sumo kyokai's list of winners only goes back to 1927, so that seemed a good place to stop. You were quick to help, I saw a few tweaks from you before I was even done, which was a nice surprise. I have see your efforts on the articles all across my watchlist. Kudos. In large part due to your efforts and others, the sumo presence on wikipedia is vastly improved over what it was a few years ago. FourTildes (talk) 20:29, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Futabayama pre-1958 basho
Hiya, I decided to give a crack at representing pre-1958 tourney tables accurately. I had a go with Futabayama. I rather like the way it turned out. The original table is inaccurate due to it's constraints (as Csernica et al complained of). I don't like the simple "one line" basho recording system I have seen other places, too drab. So I went back to the wiki table. It is not as time consuming as you would think. I use a Mac application called Text Expander which allows you to write short "codes" which you "program" like "em2" which will type out "East Maegashira #2" for you, etc. Anyway, tell me what you think. I am not adverse to going back to the other table if you don't think it works; it didn't take me that long to make (especially with so few basho a year back then!) FourTildes (talk) 00:01, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Glad you like it. I will definitely take a good look at the wrestlers you mentioned and do them if it looks feasible. I am not sure if the all the prizes (kanto-sho etc.) existed at all in the form they do now, and I might need to take out the description of them below the table. I'll need to read up on them first. FourTildes (talk) 12:27, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

A number of things: I have done, additionally Haguroyama,Hitachiyama, and Umegatani Tōtarō I. I took out sansho references and took out kinboshi for those wrestlers that were active before the term was "coined" (1939). I have just finished wikilinking etc. the tables. For Umegatani, I came up with the 1st,2nd,3rd tournament scheme to try to handle the hodgepodge of basho. I think the table results is readable and gels enough with the post-1958 table format to give it some continuity. One more thing, Umegatani was promoted to Yokozuna near the end of his career right? But this is not reflected in his tournament record for whatever reason (not being officially recognized etc?). I think it needs some explication in his bio, if you have any sources for it. FourTildes (talk) 00:42, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Go Koto go go
I haven't been watching sumo as closely as I should which is a loss because look at Kotooshu go! I have said a number of times that he reminds of me of Kaio. He is low key, has great ability and strength (the perfect yokozuna qualities) but lacks the self-confidence to clinch the deal - at least until this time around. I saw it on the news, but seeing him beat Asashoryu so decisively was the most exciting sports moment for me in some time. His match against Hakuho tonite will be something to see. FourTildes (talk) 19:53, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I did see Hakuho's win over Wakanoho. I had to go to youtube and watch Kotooshu win a few more times as well. The one I watched was just some Japanese family filming their telly screen, but that made it all the better to hear their elation as well. I am getting way ahead of myself, but Kotooshu, beyond the fact that he is foreign, and looks it (I can't tell you how weird it was when "hakujin" (caucasians) started making it into makuuchi, it was just such a contrast at first), is the perfect candidate for yokozuna. He has all the traits they say they look for (beyond two consecutive yusho/near yusho which I realize he doesn't even have yet)  He's got that modesty and bearing and he is pretty dashing.FourTildes (talk) 23:33, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, thanks for keeping it quiet, I just watched him Hakuho match about 15 minutes ago. I really thought he had potential early on, but had mostly forgotten about him. But you can't do any better than beat the two Yokozuna, themselves not doing badly at all, in as many days. He has his groove now, and I think he'll go a long way. Funny that I say this, b/c even as I watched right before the Hakuho match, deep inside I thought he was going to choke; but he didn't and now I can believe in him. FourTildes (talk) 11:58, 22 May 2008 (UTC)=

Hey PK3. Maybe you saw on the sumo project page: I couldn't help myself, I had to post about going to see the basho. I was hoping I could see Kotooshu's first (of many!?) yusho. He did not disappoint, thank God. He finally didn't choke when it came down to it. I think with this step he can go far. I already said so on the WP page, but I am ready to help with the updates. Let's see if we get anyone else to help us. FourTildes (talk) 11:08, 24 May 2008 (UTC)