User talk:Pawnkingthree/Archive 3

2008 hatsu banzuke updates
Thanks for the updates! I have been back home visiting family; so you and I are in the same country for once (though I have never been anywhere near Jersey -- maybe someday). The last 5 days I met up with my brother in LA and we did a five day 2000 mile loop around Arizona, Nevada and California. Awe-inspiring trip, but it has left me tired. I leave on a plane back to Japan in a few hours. I will be there for basho results updates. FourTildes (talk) 15:32, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I stayed pretty busy for a few days doing pic uploads, and transferring over tourney tables to and from (mostly to) Japanse wiki. I have been posting pics on Japanese wiki for some time because I figured my pictures might as well be used. Don't feel you have to make an article for wrestlers when they reach 3 makuuchi basho, do it when it suits you. I myself for some reason have little taste for starting wrestler articles, though I enjoy sprucing them up (much as with other articles really - even "list of past wrestlers" was really an big upgrade of the reference list we had at WP:Sumo.) I did go see sumo last Saturday with a friend. She was a friend I hadn't seen in a while and it wasn't a very eventful day, so we mostly talked thru the bouts. I wanted to stand out front and get a chance to get pics of a few wrestlers I don't have, but I figured it wouldn't be much fun more my friend. About upcoming bouts: I think I am just as exited about whether Haruma (Haruma...) can manage to pull out his kachikoshi as I am about anything else. Sumo has made me superstitious and I was worried the name change might jinx him. If anyone can get over a jinx (one in his head or not) it's him. Someone with no user name has been helpful edits to a few articles recently - I thought of inviting him/her to WP:Sumo but I don't want to scare him/her off too early. Take care FourTildes (talk) 07:28, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

I though you might like the Onokuni pic; I have talked to him a few times, he seems to be always at the table where radios for listening to the sumo broadcast are given out. I was more motivated (which isn't as good as some of the wrestlers pics) to put the pic up b\c I though you would be glad. FourTildes (talk) 03:44, 26 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I went to finish the updates I had started, and I saw you had finished them all, thanks for that.  Yeah, it was good to see Haruma pull it off, it is a testament to his strength that he could come back after posting what is the worst Ozeki debut in modern history.  I put up a question about playoffs and how to record them on the tables at the WP:Sumo discussion page.  Check it  out when you have time. FourTildes (talk) 23:44, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

tourney playoffs
I do hope I am not annoying you by going ahead with a system for playoffs. I value your opinion the most as you have put in the most work over the last few years. I figured a "consensus" wasn't much with only a few interested parties right now, and the system I eventually worked out looks pretty integrated. And the third reason, which you may have guessed, is because these kind of little tweaks are right up my alley (as we say where I come from anyway). I would of course welcome a better idea, and would help to implement it. FourTildes (talk) 21:08, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

hi. I went to start on the unfinished rikishi's playoffs from Asashio and saw you had jumped in. Thanks! Don't feel obligated to do any though, I brought it on myself. Not that I don't appreciate the help of course; do as many or as few as you like. I wasn't sure what to do about multiple playoff bouts by one rikishi in a tournament, but I started recording them as PP for two playoff bouts etc. (you may have noticed this, I wasn't sure). I figured we could follow this system for now, or refine or discard it as we see fit. I was thinking I would finish up until 1958 (not sure if there was even a different playoff system before that) and then see how I feel after that. It wasn't until I started doing this that I realized there were some wild playoff situations not too long after I came to Japan in 1996 which I could have seen live if the sumo bug had bitten me early. Too bad! FourTildes (talk) 23:42, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Nothing wrong with just jumping in, especially b/c you are so thorough (I try to be thorough but carelessness slips in now and then, though I think I have been pretty careful this time around). Yeah that 5 way playoff was not long after I came to Japan and I missed it. I've heard of it since, but at the time I wasn't much into sumo and didn't have enough Japanese to pick up from the people around me that this big playoff was about to happen. Bummer. Oh by the way, for multiple Ps I have only been recording how many bouts an actual wrestler partcipated in, which, for example is "only" 3 Ps for Musashimaru. FourTildes (talk) 20:16, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I stopped Playoff updates somewhere in the middle of the 50s because I wasn't sure what a "hold" was. Do you know what that is? A hold and a playoff? Or are they the same thing? If you aren't sure, no sweat. About Wakakirin: I feel sorry for the guy. I wish he hadn't resigned first, because I wanted to see what the Kyokai was going to do about it first if he didn't resign. It seems to back up Wakanoho's claim that pot use is rampant, and it is not simply a "foreigner problem". FourTildes (talk) 22:04, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I saw your wakakirin clarifying edit, which made me think of him again. In the closed world of sumo, I can see why pot had some allure for some wrestlers. It must get pretty boring sometimes. It is a waste though. If he had a chance to wise up, he should have done it. They are very strict here about drugs as you probably know. You can abuse alcohol horribly and nobody blinks, but....  Thanks for the hold clarification, too. FourTildes (talk) 22:48, 31 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I noticed some (but not all) of that weirdness with the playoff wins and losses too (especially Musashimaru). I think sumo takes a special kind of concentration because it is over in seconds, and some people have that ability for intense focus on that moment and some don't. Anyway, I look forward to seeing any addition you might have about this in the yusho article if you choose to use it. FourTildes (talk) 21:01, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


 * That was a great little factoid about Wakanoyama, considering what a successful heya Musashigawa has been over the years. I remember Wakanoyama (from Wakayama if you've noticed) He probably also is the sumo wrestler with the hairiest back ever (of the ones I've seen). FourTildes (talk) 02:06, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


 * hi. You have or would have noticed on your own, but I decided to try editing the post-1958 template and adding playoffs into it. It was surprisingly easy to figure out.  It looks all right where it is I think.  So, I went thru then and took out all the extraneous playoff "notes".  And you may have noticed I updated the Yusho article and moved the Playoffs paragraph to a separate section so that the Playoff link in the template could go directly to this section. If there are any areas where we (the more technically challenged) think the template can be improved (simple improvements of course), we can probably do it ourselves. --as a caveat though I should mention I don't have a PhD in anything, so take my edits with a grain of salt ;)

Native Country (Birthplace)
Hi! You have written "Seeing Botvinnik with a Finnish flag against him" at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chess. What does it mean? I hope, you know that Botvinnik was born in Finland. In my opinion, facts are interesting even occasionally sensational. Unlike you, personally I think we should display flags, both from information and estetic point of view. --Best regards, Mibelz (talk) 20:02, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Dear Pawnkingthree! It is a pity that you do not understand term "Native Country" which is a synonym of Birthplace, Country of Birth, Country of Origin, etc. (geography) but not ethnic identity. Of course, Mikhail Botvinnik was ethnic Russian who was born in Kuokkala, Finland (then Russian Empire and in Russia after World War II).

I have assigned a "Native country" of New York to Reuben Fine, which - in your opinion - is nonsense. I use "Native Country" in several variations, among others as a state (country, province) within a state (country), e.g. Bavaria, Saxony, Brandenburg in Germany, or England, Scotland, Ireland in the United Kingdom, and Holland, Zealand, Friesland in the Netherlands. So, Ohio, Massachusetts, New York (State not City), Virginia, etc. are states (countries) within the United States. It is a different level of the category. I am sure, as a scientist, PhD, it is not nonsense. --Mibelz (talk) 11:11, 13 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I have just changed term "Native Country" into "Country of Birth" in crosstables of early chess tournaments, held in the period from 1867 to 1914. --Mibelz (talk) 17:37, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Peer review/Billie Jean/archive1
This might interest you. I'm not overtly involved with it, I did a little clean up before GA. Would be nice to see such an iconic song reach FA. — R  2  14:24, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

year in sumo
The "year in sumo" article seems like a keen idea. Is there a precedent for this in other sports on wikipedia? The only reason I ask is that it would be better down the road if such a type of article weren't targeted for deletion from the get go because of this. FourTildes (talk) 23:54, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

heya
Of course I have to thank you for giving the heya article a good degree of dimension. I always planned on doing more with it and never did. Now people who click thru to it will actually have something to see besides a skimpy list. Have you considered a column for past wrestlers in a heya? Past heya could also have info similar to the active column, though another "past sumo beya" might be overkill. I had no idea that there were columns that could be sorted in wikipedia. Is that new at all? I can think of a non sumo list articles I used to edit that could use this function. Could the active sumo wrestlers' list be used with such a sorting function, made to look a little more like a banzuke listing? Just an idea, not at all thought through. If you do make a "year in sumo" article(s) please do let me know, so I can check it out. FourTildes (talk) 22:06, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

thanks
Hey, I completely forgot the Juryo wrestlers etc still need Infobox updates. I was actually looking forward to doing updates and was hoping you hadn't done them all before I got home. I was probably so excited because I went to see Osaka sumo for the first time. It was a late decision so I couldn't get tickets for the last day; but in the end the 14th day was the decider for the yusho, so it was perfect! My friend in Osaka is a big fan of sumo, but had never been to see the real thing! Osaka people are so friendly. I couldn't believe the difference from Tokyo. I will definitely go again some time. I enjoyed it so much I will probably try to go to Nagoya sumo as well. Fukuoka is a lot further away, so I'll have to give it some thought, but... What do you think of the sortable table for past wrestlers? Is it all right? I wasn't and am still not sure if it was the best way to go or not. FourTildes (talk) 03:22, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

thanks for the fix of erroneous and redundant info earlier in the article. I saw that there was something written there that seemed to contradict the info I had. I intended to get back to it later, but forgot about it. Kudos kudos. Thought that interesting info about sansho sweeps was too interesting not to put here. Don't know if it is worth a separate section or the name I gave the section, but... If you feel there is a better way to represent it, feel free to edit it. FourTildes (talk) 08:15, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I've added a couple of lines and also linked to our "sumo records" article and the Sumo Reference complete list of winners. I think it's fine to have a separate section on the clean sweeps; I love that kind of trivia.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 21:56, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for taking a look. I of course considered putting that list in with records, but it just seemed more at home in sansho. FourTildes (talk) 22:13, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

active wrestlers
Can you tell I'm on vacation? Having had so much fun getting things to sort just so on the past wrestlers article, I was wondering if we couldn't do the same thing with the active wrestler article. I couldn't stop myself from starting a sandbox to see what it might look like. User:FourTildes/sandbox_2 I took about 20-30 minutes throwing it together. I would never go live without showing it to you to see what you think, as you have been the major contributor to that article since it took it's current form. If it just doesn't work for you, I can live with it. Looking at my sandbox, the highest rank thing looks like overkill - I was thinking we could change it to "current" in the highest rank column if it is the same rank. Career and other notes might be unnecessary as well. It would only be a little more work to update than the way we do it now, and in some ways it would probably be even easier. It looks more banzuke-ish this way (especially as the default sort is by rank), but I do think it offers a lot of flexibility even compared to sumodb.com but also (maybe?) avoids overkills. Again, I know you are a nice guy, but you can be straight with me; I can of course live with the way the list is now. FourTildes (talk) 05:46, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

I am glad you like it. I tried to wait, but I couldn't stop myself, and I made a "secret" sandbox ;) and continued working on it. I will put it up soon. FourTildes (talk) 00:56, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I've got to stop myself and put this up before I go to far with one way of thinking: User:FourTildes/sandbox 2. Let's see.

First and foremost I went back to the first column/default sort being wrestler's names. I had a few reasons for this: It will make it a lot easier to update, you would simply have to change a wrestlers rank for it to re-sort itself, but there would be a lot more cutting and pasting and possible confusion to update things with the ranking being listed first. Also, it could give a little exposure to wrestlers that people might not normally even see further down the list. I think if we put in a line in the lead that says "to get a list in order of banzuke, etc. rank, simply click the sort button". This list does not have to be a banzuke, but at the same time it can easily be sorted to become more banzuke-ish. Personally I know I like updating the "active" list because it makes me more aware of individual wrestlers' progress, but a lot of cutting and pasting wrestler info would probably greatly dilute this experience. I did consider keeping out guys/blokes who have dropped down to lower divisions and giving them a separate table, but it is also kind of cool to be able to see how much their ranks have fallen by re-sorting, and again, they get a little more exposure. I put in all the Juryo wrestlers and few Makushita-ers to give a sense of what it will look like. Again, I defer to your opinion.

Also, I ended up keeping in Highest Rank, but changing any wrestler who is at his highest rank to current (though with hidden sorting it "current" will still sort correctly). Easy one to get rid of if it's overkill.

Couldn't wait, went live with it on the active wrestlers' page, as I am sure you have noticed. I figured since you were okay with the basic layout it'd be all right. We can still take off or add to it. The "highest rank" can still go, easy to take out. I thought heya would be a good addition as well, b/c someone can re-sort and see how the heya are represented. There is a good date sorting function we could have used for "debut", but it will not work with just a year and month, hence the slightly unwieldy date format I had to settle for.FourTildes (talk) 12:47, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Sorry about the old talks getting snuffed in the "active" discussion. I was in a hurry to go to bed, and thought I would put the sorting comment first. Should have been more careful. Again, please tool around a little more and if "highest rank" makes things too busy or confusing we can take it out, no tears. I am not sure about that column myself, but it was fun dinking with it. The heya addition is interesting, no? Good way to compare wrestlers. I just remembered a big point is changing the default sort to alphabetical for now. Reservations? Yeah, if you can help with career notes at some point that would be great. I'll fill some in as well.FourTildes (talk) 21:46, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

I was still fond enough of the highest ranking column to keep it I thought; and what put me over was sometimes I was at a loss for anything to put in the career column for a wrestler, and I realized if I took the highest ranking column out I could at least put that info into a wrestlers' career info. I often used a wrestler's home country or prefecture in the career column as well, so there would be some redundant info if we put in the column you suggested. Having said that though, a "place of birth" column would be less confusing than a highest rank column. I would have no objection. FourTildes (talk) 21:57, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I thought heya would be an interesting and useful addition to the "past" article. I also decided to take it slow and just do a number of them a day. FourTildes (talk) 21:05, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

The place of birth column looks good. I didn't even see that you were updating it until it was finished. A number of wrestlers have place of origin in their bios (I didn't notice if you edited any career notes or not b/c of this), but it might not be extraneous because I usually only mentioned place of origin if it was a rarity, which isn't necessarily apparent just looking at that column. I noticed when checking some heya links for the "past" article that some heya, such as Oitekaze stable for example, list only the modern equivalent of a stable as if it is the only one, even though the wrestler with that heya clearly lived long before this time. Probably something we should work on, at least giving the old heya a mention if nothing else. FourTildes (talk) 07:37, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

I was going to mention that even though I knew there were a heck of a lot of Aomori prefecture rikishi, I thought it was interesting to see that the ones who have articles here actually outnumber the Mongolians (8 to 7 I think); even if the highest Aomorian is only M5. Seems to say to me that it's not that there aren't enough Japanese in sumo (an issue some talk about over here), it's just that the Japanese wrestlers need to up their level of play. Anyway, one easy thing to see with the handy dandy pob column (FourTildes (talk) 08:56, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

I went to check on a few heya, one namely, was Sadogatake. I checked Japanese online sources and after about 15 minutes or so had found nothing about dates etc. or virtually anything about the original heya. There does not seem to be much interest at all in the old ones incarnations. FourTildes (talk) 18:46, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

year in sumo
I like the article a lot; wondered if you were working on one yet or not. You could mention that in the Sep basho, making wrestlers redo the tachai caused an unprecedented number of mata, or not, if it is more info than is really necessary; I couldn't decide. Erm, you left out November - Kyushu basho for some reason? I assume you just missed it? Anyway, great article, great refresher for the year. It was good to catch up on the details of the tournaments we so soon forget (or at least I do). Yeah, definitely a round of the usual see also's is appropriate I think, the mentioned wrestlers articles could be good as well, or maybe linking their names in the article itself is enough. FourTildes (talk) 20:29, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Good stuff. The images really give the article a good feel as well. Can't think of anything for June. You could mention that was when the incriminating Wakanoho wallet was found, but that's not really enough I guess. This article deserves some exposure; I am trying to think of places to link it. If we had more than one year it might be great to link the years at the left of the table on yusho winners. Or even better, it could replace the year links on the basho results template maybe! An idea anyway. FourTildes (talk) 22:53, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

I wasn't sure if you were planning any more "year" articles. You don't have to, you can always start from 2008, though I would love it if you did make more. FourTildes (talk) 23:38, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

If you are interested in doing more "year in" articles, I can make a few years, though I would have trouble consolidating info as well as you have in the 2008 article. It would be cool if we could link them to the basho results template, though it might be harder than it would at first seem; would love to try though. One more thing: I got that factoid about Kitazakura's "highest debut" from another wrestler's article that said that this particular wrestler was second only to Kitazakura in highest makuuchi debut; which is where I got that info about Kitazakura. For the life of me, I can now not find which wrestler's article it was. It's bugging me to no end; do you know? FourTildes (talk) 20:46, 17 April 2009 (UTC) Though I looked for it for twenty minutes, just after I posted here, I found it, in Kakuryu's article, and I see where I went wrong. Sorry! FourTildes (talk) 20:50, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Hey, I've changed what I wrote to you here the first time, b/c a lot of it has changed: I figured out how to make every year column link (and read) XXXX year in sumo in the tourney template. So far, I have left it this way, but it of course leaves mostly red links in this column. I haven't decided if I'll change it back or not yet. I was thinking we could make dummy articles for all the as yet uncovered years that redirect either to a master list of "year ins" or maybe to the list of sumo championships. We could of course change it back until we have more years, but it might be an incentive for others to get involved and write up a few year articles themselves. What do you think? FourTildes (talk) 22:59, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

It is not as simple as it should be to not show "2008 in sumo" etc. in the column. The simple method doesn't work for some reason. I thought it might not be so bad to show the "in sumo" part because most people probably assume that the links are just generic year links anyway, and may not click on them. I do agree that it would look better without them; too repetitious. I was afraid you wouldn't like me throwing together "year in" articles, because yours are much more polished. But I wanted to at least close some of the red links. Glad you approve. FourTildes (talk) 01:26, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

hi, I saw we were both working on finishing up the wrestlers at the same time, so I started at the end of the "active" list until we met in the middle. While I was doing it I noticed you had updated the template to read only the year in the year column. I had planned to look into that, but I secretly liked the way it was b/c it drew attention to it (but don't worry, I secretly liked it in the way that I liked seeing some of my old pre-template tourney tables floating around - even though I knew they should be updated). Just now, to offset that column looking like it just links to generic years, I edited the "sumo record box start" template to put "year in sumo" at the head of the year column. It fits in pretty well. FourTildes (talk) 19:59, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

well, I went even further, and thought it might be cool to link that heading of the year column to a master List of years in sumo article. I then proceeded to make the lists article (which has precedent in other fields) I edited the template to see if the link would work, and it does. But then I reverted it back because for now, of course, the list of years in sumo is shorter than the tourney tables for most wrestlers, so the link would definitely be overkill. If we ever got a good collection of "year ins" I think it would be worth linking the column heading, but not right now. Either way, there is now an existing "list of years in sumo" article - quite stubby. There seems to be no rule of thumb on the name of such an article; I found several variations in different fields. We can always change it later. I considered linking the list article in the existing "year in" articles, but I thought I would write here first to see what you think. This has all got* me pretty excited about the upcoming basho; too long to wait.

(*do they say "gotten" for "got" in NJ? I used to say "gotten" after "have" or "has" when I lived in the US, but it has been bred out of me in recent years) FourTildes (talk) 20:32, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Oh yeah, thanks for putting in the effort to add more to the wrestler's actual articles. It makes a big difference. I rarely take time to do this except to fix typos. It is funny how I love punching in info, but neglect other things - I might have said before: if I ever lose my first job, I think I have a real future in data entry (FourTildes (talk) 20:46, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

The year in list can always evolve, just as the other lists have eventually, after we struck on an idea, etc. I noticed one "list of years" that gave a few highlights from each year, in addition to a link to the main article. This could be a start maybe. I may have mentioned, but I have a lot more British (and other English speaking nation) friends over here than I ever did back home (of course), and it has had an effect on me. I find myself using dodgy, manky and a host of other ones that I try to (and fail) to remember to extricate from my speech when I visit home. FourTildes (talk) 02:01, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Homasho is mine. All mine. ;) And a few other guys have slipped in and become pretty regular since I last stood out there to take pictures.  I think I might just snap everyone I see and sort it out later.  Saw your work sprucing up the year in articles.  Good deal.  FourTildes (talk) 21:54, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Work in progress
Hello, … I found an old, unpublished paper that I wrote about Necessity and Sufficiency in Computer Chess Algorithms while at Xerox in 1980 … I recently scanned it with OCR software, and have been cleaning it up … I'd appreciate some feedback from Some Other Editor while I try to bring it up-to-date to submit for publication. :-)

Happy Editing! &mdash;  18:37, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Your apology is accepted, and I thank you for correcting the spelling of my name on other pages, too, that I haven't looked at, as of yet. 59.166.125.25 (talk) 14:59, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Re: Heya article
You're welcome. In case you and FourTildes are still looking for older heya information, the site I used is this one and specifically the heya section which has a timeline listing all stables in existence since the 1927 Tokyo/Osaka merger and their respective founders, plus some other stuff. Japanese-only, unfortunately. There's more information on other sites, e.g. some pre-1927 inferences about existing stables can be made from the rikishi profiles at Takayama's site but that's all not very coherent and would probably run afoul of WP:OR anyway. Zeyes (talk) 03:35, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

new pics to use
I noticed you and ACSE have been adding in the recent dohyo pics further down in the articles. They really look spiffy and professional now, eh? Watching sumo at home, I also recognized 3 more wrestlers (juryo) that I had pics of from before and I uploaded them to the commons and to their respective Japanese articles. I was waiting for your records update too, to see for sure how well Kaio made out on his slow move upward. I would love to see him take most of those number ones on the lists he is on (though a few are probably out of reach). FourTildes (talk) 00:03, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

full tables
Hey, if any of the latest dohyo pics looks better or clearer than one I took, feel free to replace them. The balance right now looks good though, a close up at the top and more of an "action" photo juxtaposed further down a wrestler's article.

Anyway, back to the reason for the title of my entry on your talk page. Some busy little bees (largely one user actually) on ja.wiki have very recently started fleshing out tourney tables to also show wrestlers' pre-makuuchi tournaments. I thought it was just currently active wrestlers, but someone has gone back and done Chiyonofuji as well quite some time ago. Some one even did Kaio 魁皇博之 from banzuke-gai (though they stuck an "abbreviated" row in to keep his table from getting too long). I don't know if I want to open this sticky wicket, but we could - maybe - consider doing the same thing here - maybe - if it's not overkill - which I am in no way yet convinced it isn't. If we did want to do it, ever, the easiest way would be to just copy the template markup the Japanese users have already put up. The only thing we would have to be careful about was keeping an eye out for the different way ja.wiki templates handle Playoffs, which in my humblest opinion looks better the way we do it on en.wiki. ( Anyway, there it is. Of course, you might have already noticed some were doing this on ja.wiki, you always seem more on the ball about such stuff than I.  FourTildes (talk) 22:08, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

I am inclined to agree with you. So I guess we'll just have to agree to agree, eh? ( FourTildes (talk) 02:30, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

current rank
Hey, long time, no sumo exchange. I have been toying with this idea for a while, so I thought I'd ask. For wrestlers currently in makuuchi, how about changing the current rank/rank entry in the infobox to read simply "see below", referring to the Top Division table that repeats this information further down in the article? There could/should also be an wikilink on the word "below" that links to the Top Division tournament results section on the same page. This could lead people who never bother to scroll down to see tournament results directly to that section, and also eliminate the need to enter the current rank twice when we update them. It seems a little redudant to enter it twice, once in the infobox and once in the tourney table, but more than that it is just an extra hassle for the updater. Of course, for guys in lower divisions, their ranks could continue to be listed as they are now in the infobox, because the lower division ranks are not listed in the tourney tables. It's an idea anyway. I have no trouble doing this myself if you think it's a good idea, and can live with it if you don't think it's a good idea. FourTildes (talk) 01:37, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

OK, I'll give it some thought as to how to go about it. I may not get (a)round to a decision for a while as I have a lot of real work I should be doing first... ;) FourTildes (talk) 21:27, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

updates
I took a few minutes to check wikipedia, I see you are updating, thanks for that. My mother died 3 days ago, so I have been packing and making arrangements to go home. We knew it was coming for some time but... The one consolation is because it's summer I can go home longer than other times. Anyway, I did manage to watch last few bouts of the last day of sumo and was glad Kotooshu at least made it exciting before Hakuho won it. Take care of you and yours. FourTildes (talk) 21:42, 26 July 2009 (UTC)