User talk:Pbaumgar

Payton
Please refrain from adding mention from Walter Payton's career rushing record in his lead paragraph. It is mentioned elsewhere in the article, in better detail. -- ShadowJester07 ► Talk 04:05, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

It is not mentioned in detail. Payton breaking the record was the biggest NFL story of the day and has great significance to his career!


 * It was they biggest story, Emmitt Smith broke Payton's record, and it will likely be broken again. Furthermore, it is mentioned in the article. In fact, there's a picture of him breaking it to. So, please stop. There's several reasoning pertaining to WP:MOS pertaining to why you should not add that. -- ShadowJester07 ► Talk 04:25, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Emmitt Smith did break the record. Of course it will be broken again. But, Payton's career is signified by him breaking Jim Brown's record. He was the first person to break the record since 1965.

Payton also broke Jim Brown's record of career 100 yard rushing games on that day with the 59th of his career. I don't see that in the article. Can that be added?

Your mentioning of the Manual of Style has nothing to do with why this should be posted or why it should not be posted.

Thanks, Paul Baumgardner

And furthermore, Emmit Smith's page mentions him breaking Walter Payton's record in the first paragraph. So your conclusion that it it not significant to Walter Payton's career is not sound... or Emmit Smith's page needs to be edited.

Thanks, Paul Baumgardner

Paul if its not in MOS – which it should be (See WP:LEAD), since it touches lead paragraphs, it’s basically a rule of thumb among experienced editors. You can look up any other well-written athletes article, ex Brett Favre, Muhhamad Ali, Tiger Woods, and notice that none of them have comments like that, A lead paragraph simply offers a quick biography of a person – not a report of a single accomplishment. Furthermore, you are erasing “He also set many rushing records during his professional and collegiate career” and removing a statement that Payton had many other records before the 00’s including most career touchdowns, attempts, 100-yd games, and many others.

That, and mentioning “On, October 7….” Is arbitrarily placed. It would be the equivalent of writing, “George Washington (Born…) was an American President. In 1777, he lead the Continental Army to victory at Saratoga.” In the beginning of his article. Hope that example helps. If you want to add that he was once the league’s all-time leading rusher and touchdown scorer in a conside manner, go for it. -- ShadowJester07 ► Talk 04:55, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I looked up all those well know athletes. Looking at Brett Favre, the entry lists accomplishments in the second paragraph. Muhammad Ali (I assume you meant the boxer since you misspelled it as Muhhamad Ali) lists accomplishments in the first paragraph. Same with Tiger Woods.. accomplishments in the first paragraph. So your editorial experience does not make sense for these entries. Also look at Emmit Smith... Accomplishments in the first paragraph.

Your comment above:

"and removing a statement that Payton had many other records before the 00’s including most career touchdowns, attempts, 100-yd games, and many others."

makes no sense. Maybe you miss typed? I did not remove any such comment like that.

I don't quite understand what you mean by this statement either:

"That, and mentioning “On, October 7….” Is arbitrarily placed. It would be the equivalent of writing, “George Washington (Born…) was an American President. In 1777, he lead the Continental Army to victory at Saratoga.” In the beginning of his article. Hope that example helps. If you want to add that he was once the league’s all-time leading rusher and touchdown scorer in a conside manner, go for it."

How is mentioning a fact that was substantial to his career arbitrary? Ok, can we at least mention he was *once* the NFL career rushing record holder in the first paragraph?

Thanks, Paul Baumgardner


 * Yes, that's what I suggested. -- ShadowJester07 ► Talk  —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 05:23, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

I added this:

"Walter Payton set many rushing records during his professional and collegiate career. Most notably, he set the NFL career rushing record on October 7, 1984, rushing for 12,312 yards breaking Jim Brown's NFL rushing record.  This record was later broken by Emmit Smith of the Dallas Cowboys on October 27, 2002."

What do you think?


 * I trimmed it down to mention he held/holds the league records for carries, yards, TDs, and many other things. Remember all of the articles I told you to read reference the fact that they broke the record, but use the other body sections to explain them in detail. -- ShadowJester07 ► Talk 05:43, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok good edit. Much better first paragraph.

Thanks for your time.

Paul Baumgarnder


 * No Problem at all. Have a nice day -- ShadowJester07 ► Talk 06:31, 29 September 2007 (UTC)