User talk:Pbsouthwood/Archive 30

Feedback request: Engineering and technology Good Article nomination
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Administrators' newsletter – May 2024
News and updates for administrators from the past month (April 2024).

Administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-view-refresh.svg Nyttend
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg JohnOwens · Killiondude · MelanieN · Nihonjoe

Bureaucrat changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Nihonjoe



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 * Gnome-colors-view-refresh.svg Joe Roe

Oversight changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg GeneralNotability

Guideline and policy news
 * Phase I of the 2024 requests for adminship review has concluded. Several proposals have passed outright and will proceed to implementation, including creating a discussion-only period (3b) and administrator elections (13) on a trial basis. Other successful proposals, such as creating a reminder of civility norms (2), will undergo further refinement in Phase II. Proposals passed on a trial basis will be discussed in Phase II, after their trials conclude. Further details on specific proposals can be found in the full report.

Technical news
 * Partial action blocks are now in effect on the English Wikipedia. This means that administrators have the ability to restrict users from certain actions, including uploading files, moving pages and files, creating new pages, and sending thanks. T280531

Arbitration
 * The arbitration case Conflict of interest management has been closed.

Miscellaneous
 * This may be a good time to reach out to potential nominees to ask if they would consider an RfA.
 * A New Pages Patrol backlog drive is happening in May 2024 to reduce the number of unreviewed articles in the new pages feed. Currently, there is a backlog of over 15,000 articles awaiting review. Sign up here to participate!
 * Voting for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) election is open until 9 May 2024. Read the voting page on Meta-Wiki and cast your vote here!

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:24, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Reminder to vote now to select members of the first U4C

 * You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki. 

Dear Wikimedian,

You are receiving this message because you previously participated in the UCoC process.

This is a reminder that the voting period for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) ends on May 9, 2024. Read the information on the voting page on Meta-wiki to learn more about voting and voter eligibility.

The Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) is a global group dedicated to providing an equitable and consistent implementation of the UCoC. Community members were invited to submit their applications for the U4C. For more information and the responsibilities of the U4C, please review the U4C Charter.

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Feedback request: Natural sciences Good Article nomination
Your feedback is requested &#32;at Talk:Ove Almborn&#32; on a "Natural sciences" Good Article nomination. Thank you for helping out! You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of Feedback Request Service subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by removing your name. Message delivered to you with love by Yapperbot :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact my bot operator. &#124; Sent at 02:30, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Question from Tavakoli mahdi (06:27, 3 May 2024)
من میخواهم نام کاربری من و page title ام تغییر کنه به Tavakoli Mahdi یا Mahdi Tavakoli ممنون --Tavakoli mahdi (talk) 06:27, 3 May 2024 (UTC)


 * , this is English Wikipedia, I cannot read your question and therefore cannot answer it. Cheers, &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 14:14, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: Natural sciences Good Article nomination
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Feedback request: Engineering and technology Good Article nomination
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Feedback request: Geography and places Good Article nomination
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Feedback request: Natural sciences Good Article nomination
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Feedback request: Natural sciences Good Article nomination
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Question from Tavakoli mahdi on User:Tavakoli mahdi (19:20, 3 May 2024)
I want to change my username and page title to Tavakoli Mahdi or Mahdi Tavakoli --Tavakoli mahdi (talk) 19:20, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi, just create a new account with the new user name and abandon the old one. Do not use the old one again. If you let me know when you have the new account I can block the old one for you. Cheers, &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 06:24, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: Engineering and technology Good Article nomination
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Feedback request: Engineering and technology Good Article nomination
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Precious anniversary
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:39, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: Engineering and technology Good Article nomination
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Question from Asif Naimur Rashid (16:04, 10 May 2024)
How do I make my profile look less like an advertisement? --Asif Naimur Rashid (talk) 16:04, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: Geography and places Good Article nomination
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Feedback request: Wikipedia proposals request for comment
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Feedback request: Geography and places Good Article nomination
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Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment
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Feedback request: Geography and places Good Article nomination
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NAVAREA
Hi Pbsouthwood, as mentioned in my edit summary the source in the article (which uses "Naval areas") cites an IMO document from 2008. That doc doesn't actually define it, but this 1998 document supports your claim of "Navigational area". Best, CMD (talk) 06:18, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Nice work, CMD,Thanks, &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 06:53, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Question from Darkeous on Hijra (South Asia) (11:57, 22 May 2024)
okay so I've personally grown up and known the term mentioned in slang to be used as slander how to I source it? like is it fine for me to note this in this manner, I would like people to know not to use the term causally as it does have some other layers to it and could cause cultural offense. --Darkeous (talk) 11:57, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi Darkeous, that is a matter for discussion on the article's talk page, as it is a matter of content. I have no personal familiarity with the term, so cannot advise on its usage. I suggest you try to find some reliable source to back up you claim, bu if you ask on the talk page it is possible that someone who watches the article will know of a source. Cheers, &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 12:59, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Question from FITT BODY (10:35, 27 May 2024)
வணக்கம் --FITT BODY (talk) 10:35, 27 May 2024 (UTC)


 * What is your question? &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 12:04, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Question from Manishchittodiya (10:04, 28 May 2024)
hello how can i create a profile on Wikipedia? --Manishchittodiya (talk) 10:04, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Manishchittodiya, If you are referring to a personal profile of information about yourself, this is not a social media site. If you are sufficiently WP:Notable by Wikipedia standards, someone else will write an encyclopedic article about you. You are allowed to share a small amount of relevant information about yourself on your WP:User page. but this should be information relevant to your work on Wikipedia, and will normally only be read by Wikipedians. Cheers, &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 16:25, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment
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C. annaskala
Hi Pbsouthwood

I've been sent from the german wiki. We've had quite the discussion (see: Frage zur Taxobox) on your images of Cyanea annaskala as the images don't match the description of the species. How were you sure the species was C. annaskala? Was it a very young jellyfish? Of course the location matches and the images are breathtaking. I fear it could be confusing for a reader to see the image next to the description without clarification (in case it was a young jelly). (sorry if I sound rude, I'm autistic /genuine) All the best:) Phantomjelly (talk) 09:17, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi Phantomjelly, Those photos were taken on a Reef Life Survey expedition, and probably would have been identified by Graham Edgar of Hobart, Tasmania, as I am not familiar with the area or the species, so I have no strong opinion of the identification. I have no idea of the age of the individual, and would not want to try to even guess its size. Sorry I can't be more helpful. (you do not sound rude and no offence taken, it is a completely reasonable and legitimate question and concern) Regards, &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 12:47, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much! That's actually really helpfull:) Have a nice day Phantomjelly (talk) 12:04, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Question from RumeOdibo on User:RumeOdibo (01:40, 30 May 2024)
How do I create my wiki page --RumeOdibo (talk) 01:40, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment
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Feedback request: Engineering and technology Good Article nomination
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Feedback request: Natural sciences Good Article nomination
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Feedback request: Engineering and technology Good Article nomination
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Feedback request: Natural sciences Good Article nomination
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Feedback request: Geography and places Good Article nomination
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Feedback request: Natural sciences Good Article nomination
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Feedback request: Natural sciences Good Article nomination
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Administrators' newsletter – June 2024
News and updates for administrators from the past month (May 2024).

Administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-view-refresh.svg Graham Beards
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Deskana · Mets501 · Staxringold

Bureaucrat changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Deskana · Warofdreams



Oversight changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Dreamy Jazz

Guideline and policy news
 * Phase II of the 2024 RfA review has commenced to improve and refine the proposals passed in Phase I.

Technical news
 * The Nuke feature, which enables administrators to mass delete pages, will now correctly delete pages which were moved to another title. T43351

Arbitration
 * The arbitration case Venezuelan politics has been closed.
 * The Committee is seeking volunteers for various roles, including access to the conflict of interest VRT queue.

Miscellaneous
 * WikiProject Reliability's unsourced statements drive is happening in June 2024 to replace citation needed tags with references! Sign up here to participate!

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:44, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Short descriptions
Per guidelines on short descriptions, they are asked to be very brief and usually categorical. The primary purpose is to disambiguate in searches from similarly-titled articles. Short descriptions get cut off around 50 characters long and the average for articles is 30 characters. Cheers. Wizmut (talk) 15:39, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi, I am quite familiar with the constraints and functions of short descriptions, as I was closely involved with drafting them, and the whole process under which we were forced to use them by WMF. What you appear not to have noticed, is that short descriptions are also used as annotations on a large number of list sections (like See also sections) and list, Index, and Outline articles, and in those cases it helps for them to actually work as annotations. 30 characters can work for some short descriptions, but for others it is not sufficient and the basic rule is that they must be useful and fit for purpose. The agreed cut-off is 100 characters, as noted on the page Short description One of the reasons short descriptions are so useful as annotations is that large lists can be annotated without having to provide a reference for every annotation, which would technically be the case if the annotations were not transcluded, and which would require enormous and painfully tedious reference sections on long list class articles. As the short description must be valid for the host article, it must be validated there in the same way as the lead, by being referenced somewhere in the original article. This validity carries through whenever it is used as a transcluded annotation, which can be dozens or hundreds, potentialy thousands of times, making it much more efficient than writing an annotation in each list which must be referenced there for verifiability. In case you are not aware, the MoS recommends annotations for lists of links in these article types, and very few have them, and most of those that do exist are probably by use of annotated links, so the use of short descriptions as link annotations is a significant improvement to the functionality and usefulness of the encyclopedia. We have accepted mediocre quality mass produced short descriptions to get Wikidata descriptions which are out of our control, and generally unreferenced, out of Wikipedia, but there is a lot of room for improvement, particularly on those short descriptions which do not actually perform a useful purpose because they are so short that they provide little or no useful information. Disambiguation is a small part of their actual use, though it may have been the reason WMF originally forced them upon us. There is lot of history behind this if you want to find out more. Cheers, &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 16:53, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Wasn't aware of all that, apologies. Where are short descriptions seen other than in the search bar or on special location on mobile? Are they seen alongside the title? Wizmut (talk) 16:58, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * , there are settings which make the short description show on every page, up near the top, and they display as annotations to any link that uses the Annotated link. The one that springs to mind as an example is Index of underwater diving, but take a look at the number of times Annotated link has been used so far. I forget what the settings are, I have had them for so long. Probably a script in one of my user subpages, js or css. You are welcome to have a look if you can read that stuff. If I remember correctly the information is also on the short descriptions project page somewhere. Cheers,&middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 17:17, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment
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Move request
Please move List of opera topics to Outline of opera (over the redirect, per WP:G6). Disclosure follows...

Back in 2006, I (User:Nexus Seven at the time) created this page as "List of basic opera topics", part of an entire set of predecessors to outlines named in the form "List of basic x topics".

The whole department of basic topics lists ran into a funny problem: the naming convention wasn't compatible with the nature of wikis. There was no way to confine the lists to basic topics, as we were up against the uncontrollable urge of wiki editors to edit. Continuously monitoring the lists and whittling them back down to basic was impossible. Wikipedians just kept adding more and more, and the lists started to become comprehensive. There were some other lists named "List of x topics", but the basic lists grew larger than most of those, because the basic lists had a WikiProject devoted to them, which attracted more editors.

"Basic" no longer applied. It was embarrassing.

So, a new name had to be found for these structured lists. Attempts to agree on one failed at the village pump. It wasn't as simple as removing the word "basic", because of the existence of alphabetical lists already having a large portion of the resultant titles. And so eventually, I just renamed the whole set to the form "Topical outline of x".

Hardly anybody noticed, but the name didn't go over well with the opera folks, who interpreted "topical" as "applied to one's skin". I explained the problem with the word "basic", and the editors of the page at that time settled on "List of opera topics".

Not long after that, I changed the entire "Topical outline of x" set, which numbered around 200 or so pages, to "Outline of x", leaving opera alone, and it stuck.

The primary objectors to the word "Topical" back then are no longer around, and...

The phrase "Outline of" has since become the standard naming convention for outlines, has been the standard for over a decade and a half, and is no longer controversial. It is now used on over 800 pages.

I doubt anyone will object to the move to "Outline of", because it is the current standard. But, if someone does, the page can easily be moved back. Thank you. &mdash; The Transhumanist  09:32, 13 April 2024 (UTC) P.S.: Lists of x topics don't have their own wikiproject, because the structured ones fall under the scope of WikiProject Outlines, while the alphabetical ones fall under the scope of WikiProject Indexes. &mdash;TT.


 * Hi, I have looked at the archived talk page discussions, and I think there could well be objections to an undiscussed move. I agree that Outline of opera would be a good alternative, but the current title is not unreasonable. I also see that there were previous disputes about annotations and the necessity for referencing them, which could be avoided by using annotated link where the short descriptions are suitable, bit that would require quite a major reformatting of the article. Suitable annotations would be a definite improvement. I suggest a talk page proposal is the correct route in this case. I would support the rename in the absence of persuasive reasoning to the contrary. Cheers, &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 07:23, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the analysis; I'll have a closer look at the annotations. I've posted a rename proposal per your suggestion. My request still stands, so please, refrain from participating in the proposal discussion, so that you can do the close/move after the requisite waiting period without conflict of interest.  It would also avoid the appearance of canvassing for your support in the discussion.  Thank you.    &mdash; The Transhumanist   23:35, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

It's been over a month, and no objections to the move proposal
The move tag has been sitting at the top of the page since April, linked to the move proposal at Talk:List of opera topics.

If someone complains after the move is made, it can be moved back.

I can't do the move, because the redirect needs to be removed to make way for the move.

Please do the honors.

Cheers,  &mdash; The Transhumanist   12:13, 8 June 2024 (UTC)


 * it is done. Please check links etc are cleaned up. Cheers, &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 13:14, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Will do.  &mdash; The Transhumanist   00:53, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 11
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Scuba diving tourism, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Side mount.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 18:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: Geography and places Good Article nomination
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