User talk:Pedrojpinto

December 2014
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Your submission at Articles for creation: Cabo Ruivo Seaplane Airport (July 24)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Sulfurboy was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Cabo Ruivo Seaplane Airport and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
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Sulfurboy (talk) 19:26, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:Cabo Ruivo Seaplane Base has a new comment
 I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Cabo Ruivo Seaplane Base. Thanks! Worldbruce (talk) 17:17, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Status update on Draft:Cabo Ruivo Seaplane Base ‎
Is your submission a translation of Flughafen Lissabon-Cabo Ruivo? If so, we need to credit the original authors.

It's a good translation, but of a poor article. No sources are cited for significant portions of it. One source that is cited is a blog, which is not a reliable source. There are substantial inaccuracies in the draft's content. There were two Cabo Ruivo seaplane bases. The dates given are for the first, which was built by a Portuguese subsidiary of Pan Am in 1938. The cited drawings are for the second, located about 2 miles north along the river from the original. It was built by the government at Doca dos Olivais as a replacement for the first, and was completed after 1944. Pan Am's first commercial flight across the North Atlantic was in May 1939, not June. (Commercial includes mail-only, no paying passengers flights, of which there were five before passenger service was allowed to begin. There were also survey flights before that.) The first paying passenger flight was indeed on 29 June, but was flown by the Dixie Clipper not the Yankee Clipper.

It's an interesting topic that has promise. I don't want to decline it outright, even though the cited sources mention Cabo Ruivo too briefly to prove notability. Nor should it be approved it as it stands. If one did so, it would have to be loaded up with a very large number of cleanup tags. So I've been doing research to improve it, which is why the review is taking a while. I've identified about 30 additional sources, and am working out how best to use them. Worldbruce (talk) 15:07, 30 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, this is mostly adapted from the German page, but not exclusively. I wanted to credit the german page but simply don't know how to do that. Also, I pasted into the article a "stub" marker sometime during the editing that somehow did not make it to the final version. I think it is a relevant topic and it needs a page in english. I am not experienced at creating new pages but I feel having this at least as a stub will potentially attract enough attention that new sources can be added and the article improved upon. I just felt it was really weird this airport did not have a wikipedia page and wished to correct it. As for the idea that there was a first and a second seaplane airport, can you provide me the source? Could it be a confusing translation from portuguese of some phrase refering to how the sea and land airports were built at the same time and connected by a new 3Km-long avenue? Seaplanes had previously docked at Belém and at a pier located further south (more precisely, here: https://www.google.pt/maps/place/Lisbon/@38.7502956,-9.0957976,716m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0xd19331a61e4f33b:0x400ebbde49036d0!6m1!1e1) but the first proper airport was built around the Doca dos Olivais. Other blueprints here: http://restosdecoleccao.blogspot.pt/search/label/Aeroporto%20Mar%C3%ADtimo%20de%20Lisboa
 * Thanks a lot for your time and hopefully this can still be salvaged.
 * Pedrojpinto (talk) 16:07, 30 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Some editors at AfC have a different philosophy than I do, so the draft has been approved in its current state. I've credited the German Wikipedia page for you in the page history and sidebar links. I think the article can be improved ("salvaged", as you put it) to the point that, if nominated, it would likely survive AfD. Keep in mind, however, that on the Portuguese Wikipedia it's only covered as one paragraph in Aeroporto da Portela, and that in the English Wikipedia, Foynes Seaplane Base, which is of similar historical importance, is only covered by one paragraph in the article about the village. So other editors may not agree with us that Cabo Ruivo is notable enough to justify a page of its own.


 * With respect to the question of two airports, what I'm calling the first is, I think, the pier you refer to. A photo reproduced in various US newspapers around 20-21 March 1939 shows part of the pier and what the caption describes as an "ancient monastery at Cabo Ruivo" being converted to serve as Pan American Airways' base. They are the same structures as shown in the blog you mentioned and as shown in this YouTube movie footage of a Clipper mooring in the Tagus and passengers being taken off and transported by boat to a floating dock at the end of the pier. At 5:18 and 5:20 the footage shows the signage on the building. The aforementioned blog contains exactly the information we need about the first site: "O cais flutuante, de trinta metros, prolongamento natural duma ponte de 161 metros, proporcionava a acostagem dos hidro-avioes em tres sentidos, consoante a direccao do vento. Em pleno rio, em frente ao cais flutuante, existam tres bolas de amarracao ligadas entre si e ao cais por fortes cabos de aco, de forma que essa manobra pudesse fazer-se com os recursos de bordo dos aparelhos. Mas, apesar disso, a base tinha um gasolina a dois motores, com radio, telefone e servico de extincao de incendio, que podia colaborar na manobra de amarracao. Para o caso de uma amaragem de noite, o gasolina possuia potentes holofotes e as bolas eram iluminadas. Destinados ao reabastecimento dos aparelhos existam dois depositos subterraneos com 15,000 litros cada. O pleno executa-se com extrema facilidade, for intermedio dum tubo que la dos depositos ate ao cais flutuante e, por conseguinte, ao aparelho."
 * But sadly the blog is exactly the wrong kind of source to cite in Wikipedia. Do you know of a reliable source for this content? I suspected that the historical pier was the one you provided the Google maps link to, but how do you know that it is?
 * It's fine to cover both the pier and what you call the "proper airport" in the same article, but the history section needs to make it clear that there were two sites and what years those sites operated. The blog refers to construction of what I'm calling the second base (the one at Doca dos Olivais) being approved in October 1942, which agrees with sources I've found, such as this Flight magazine. According to another Flight magazine, as of January 1944, the new base was yet to be built. Worldbruce (talk) 17:12, 31 July 2015 (UTC)


 * From the pictures and the name, it becomes pretty obvious that the pier is that one on the googlemaps link I posted above, but it might be tricky to find a contemporary map that indicates it as a seaplane port as I have a feeling they were never clearly distinguished from regular piers along the port until the Seaplane airport was created... I agree that there should be more information on the other locations in Lisbon used for mooring seaplanes before the seaplane airport itself was created. The 1944 source does seem very credible. Apparently the seaplanes kept using the provisional structure for a years even after the pan am flights were initiated. I am a bit swamped with work but will try to dedicate some time to improve the page and its sources in a fortnight. Please feel free to edit it in anyway you see fit in the meantime! And, again, thanks for all the help.Pedrojpinto (talk) 20:17, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Cabo Ruivo Seaplane Base has been accepted
 Cabo Ruivo Seaplane Base, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created. The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article. You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. . Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia!  Aerospeed  (Talk) 13:30, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
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