User talk:PeeJay/Archive 21

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Requesting your opinion
I'd love to see your opinion at Talk:UAE Arabian Gulf League, thank you.--Bijanii (talk) 02:52, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

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Orphaned non-free image File:Natwest 6 Nations logo.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Natwest 6 Nations logo.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Results by matchday on 2017–18 Crystal Palace F.C. season
I see you've deleted this a couple of times, saying it is frowned upon by WP:FOOTY. I checked the other Premier League teams and 16 of the other 19 teams have such a table. Some of them do actually have a link that will show position as of a date (so requires a bit of work to get to the data on the table). Is this sufficient, or are you opposed to these tables on principle? Spike &#39;em (talk) 16:42, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Flags in League Cups
Hi PeeJay2K3, i have no problems to remove the flags from the countries, i just added it for consistency from older seasons (like 2008). So if we don't want flags, we should also remove it from older seasons? Cheers Duc1983 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Duc1983 (talk • contribs) 14:36, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

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Red link in Paul Scholes edit
Woops, I incorrectly linked the discussion on Career statistics formatting as my justification for reverting your edit on Paul Scholes, here's where it should have linked to: WikiProject Football/Players. Formulaonewiki (talk) 18:35, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

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Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. The thread is Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring. Thank you. Neil N  talk to me 23:07, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Scott McTominay
Dear PJK, I thought, that it: http://www.manutd.com/en/Players-And-Staff/First-Team.aspx?pageNo=2 prevails, but if you prefer this variant, maybe it's ok. --Noel baran (talk) 19:35, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

Requesting a little advice re: articles for football matches
Hi PeeJay. Been a while since we've talked, I hope you're doing well. Sorry I went on a bit in this message, but to my mind it was all pertinent to my subject.

Anyway, getting straight down to business, I wanted to ask your opinion re: the creation of articles for individual matches. Specifically, I'd like to make a handful of articles for City matches (I'm not talking dozens, there are three I'd like to do but would be satisfied even with getting even just one out there in the short term) but these are all matches which people have tried to add to Wikipedia before and have always been AfD'ed for not being notable enough. The thing is, I can't see how any of them are any less notable that, say, this game or that one, and arguably are more notable these days and yet a decade or more on United have a series of one-off articles which no-one has ever deleted and yet every one anyone tries to make for City gets shot down in flames. As a Wikipedian who I respect immensely for being able to put their support for their team aside to assess things neutrally, I was hoping you might be able to give some comment about whether the games in question are genuinely less notable and should be written off in this sense, or if there is something that can be done to make prospective articles less likely to be hit with an AfD.

The articles I'd like to make are these:


 * Spurs 3-4 City - the FA Cup match from 2004, specifically the one where City were 3-0 down at half time, Joey Barton got himself sent off after the half-time whistle had been blown and City came back to win away from home against the odds. Even to this day this match is regularly cited by English pundits (not just the City-affiliated ones) as possibly the greatest cup comeback in English history, and can be found on most lists if you google words to the effect of "greatest cup comebacks". It suffers from not being a more notable match at the time, I will admit, but it still gets enough attention that I feel it really does deserve an article. You can see my previous attempt to make an article for this here, where it's been copied from the mainspace shortly before it was deleted. You can see my (and others') efforts to prove its notability in the ridiculous number of citations we added at the end of the lead section, yet this was still not enough to satisfy other users last time. I will also add that if I could only add one article of the three I am highlighting here, I think it would be this one.


 * City 3-2 QPR - I won't elaborate on why I think this one should be added, because I think it's obvious. This match has been brought up on almost a weekly basis ever since it finished more than 5 years ago now, and in all likelihood it will continue to be raised on a regular basis because of the impact it had - if it had been any other game than the last one of the season it would doubtless not be notable. It's this constant citing - and the way that it's habitually, and almost unchallenged, named the most exciting end to a season - that makes me think this has a claim to being made an article.


 * The Ballet on Ice - I will straight-up say that this one has the least chance of being accepted. It's one that few people outside of dedicated City fans and football historians know much about, but crucially it is still known by football pundits and so I do still hear/read it being talked about by major football pundits on an occasional basis - and City themselves posted an article about it on their website as recently as last month. If you aren't aware of the Ballet on Ice (and as a discerning fellow I have a sneaking suspicion that you might), it was a match played almost exactly 50 years ago - December 1967 - between Spurs and City in which the pitch was covered in snow and the ground was frozen, so Joe Mercer and Malcolm Allison instructed their players (somewhat, ahem, questionably legally) to remove their studs and just leave the nails which normally fixed said studs to their boots. As a consequence, City absolutely ran rings around Spurs for the entire game while the Spurs players could barely stay upright. Just to add to its notability, it was a key match in City's second ever title-winning season and also it was just about the only match played that day due to the horrible conditions, so it was one of the earliest matches broadcasted in full to national audiences on Match of the Day. After the match, Spurs' manager essentially said it was one of the most remarkable performances he'd ever seen by another team. Again, I will admit that it's perhaps not the most well-known of matches, but just for reference, here are a few recent citations to add to its credentials: 12345 - note that this one describes it as "the most famous City v Spurs match of history", which would place it ahead of the one above678. I could go on. Note that this is the one I would push least, because I will freely admit it's the least notable. You can see my previous attempt at making this article here. If I thought it stood a chance of actually surviving in the mainspace, I would definitely expand it considerably.

You will, I hope, appreciate that I am not pressing for the 6-1 Manchester derby to be added. I've never believed that to be a notable match by Wikipedia standards; it's clearly something with relevance to City fans only. I know you removed an article on that match (which I had no part in, I will point out) recently.

Anyway, any comments you might be able to make on whether there are any roadblocks to getting these published that I can take steps to overcome, would be greatly appreciated. Falastur2 Talk 11:09, 4 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the response. One quick follow-up - if I were to make the said articles, and then I were to get another AfD on them, could I possibly ask you to back me up on defending them? The other times I've done this it's basically only been me championing keeping them, and I essentially just get talked over... Falastur2  Talk 12:21, 4 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Don't suppose you want to give this one a quick peer review? If I can get it good enough, I'd like to maybe try to put it through DYK? Tottenham Hotspur F.C. 3–4 Manchester City F.C. (2004) Falastur2  Talk 16:15, 4 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the tweaking. Worth entering for a DYK, do you think? Falastur2 Talk 18:03, 10 January 2018 (UTC)


 * DYK: The 2004 FA Cup match between Tottenham Hotspur and Manchester City is regarded by many as one of the greatest comebacks in English footballing history.


 * Or words to that effect... Falastur2 Talk 19:37, 10 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Nah. GA would be far too much effort for something I don't believe has enough meat to it to really achieve it, and FA is definitely far beyond my capacity for this topic. Thanks again for the help. Falastur2 Talk 20:00, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject Football/Spain task force/Spanish club names
Hello PeeJay2K3,

I would like you to take a look at a draft of this page - it appears that I am confused about the way certain Spanish teams should be displayed as what I have noticed on the latest difference. The red text is the bit I am not sure on and the question marks and ('Spanish equilavent of KARSRUHER') should be replaced with the appropriate word. Iggy (Swan) 22:54, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

January 2018
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war&#32; according to the reverts you have made on List of Minnesota Vikings seasons. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement. Please be particularly aware that Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states: If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. Nihlus  16:37, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
 * 1) Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made.
 * 2) Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.
 * You were told about this eight years ago. I suggest you drop it and move on before getting blocked. Nihlus  16:41, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. The thread is Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring. Thank you. -- 🐇 ChocolateRabbit</b></b> 15:45, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

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FA Cup and League Cup runner up medals are allowed.
Umm, FA Cup and League Cup runner up medals are allowed. There was never a consensus against them. It was against runner up in leagues. Govvy (talk) 11:26, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

To point out, competitive runner honours must have citation, Friendly tournaments, summer tournaments are not allowed. Govvy (talk) 11:31, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

I really don't know why people are making up rules when no direct concensus was ever given against it, I will give you a good few hours to restore that before I decide to start complaining again on the Footy project, and btw, I've seen a few admins on the footy project add competitive runner up medals. Govvy (talk) 11:40, 24 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Because it's Bale's only competitive medal at Spurs and to say it was only a token I found rather offensive! These runner up medals, it's still an honour to take part in a competitive cup final, there is a reward for reach the FA Cup or league cup final for a player, wikipedia should not disregard this, if wikipedia does disregard this is, it becomes a political act and wikipedia is not a political platform so in essense it kinda breaks policy not to include it. Govvy (talk) 12:38, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

M. Miracle discussion
I don't owe you anything. I'm done editing it, now move on.GalaxyFighter55 (talk) 00:17, 31 January 2018 (UTC)


 * While I'm at it, I expect an apology for reverting my own talk page. I have the editing rights there, not you.--GalaxyFighter55 (talk) 00:19, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I mean, you could at least acknowledge the fact that you were uncivil, not to mention totally wrong. You don't even have to say you're sorry, just admit you were wrong. – PeeJay 00:33, 31 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Just unknowingly letting my personal feelings slip through my edits, my bad. I will admit undoing the edit on the page just for that message stabber was a little immature on my part, but that's it. Toodles.--GalaxyFighter55 (talk) 00:36, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, didn't think you'd actually say it. Fair play to you. Off you toddle now. – PeeJay 00:44, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

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Versus
I was always taught (I guess by my parents but I seemed to recall it being a fairly universal thing) that v was British and vs was American. I just googled it, though, and found that apparently that's not the case - although apparently putting a full stop after vs is an Americanism, so I guess I was accidentally half-right. Either way, fairly small thing, and cheers for the help all the same. <b style="color:#000000;background:#AAD0FF;">Falastur2</b> Talk 20:09, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Requesting advice
Hey PeeJay. Just looking for a little friendly advice. You will recall that I mentioned about adding a couple of City match articles, one of which I have obviously already done as you've made tweaks to it yourself, which again I thank you for. I put it through the DYK process, as I think you also may have been aware of, and it was supposed to be put in for today, to correspond with the FA Cup weekend, natch. However, (and I had to do a bit of following the breadcrumbs here as this was not something I was told about) it was pulled at literally the eleventh hour on the grounds that, a full day after being approved and put through the DYK queues, another user came along and - again, without informing me - placed a tone warning on one section. Once that was identified, though, you will notice on that link to where it was pulled from the DYK process that it was further excluded on the basis that it was previously deleted a full 9 years ago (you may recall I mentioned we had a lot of trouble persuading Wikipedia that this article was worthy of existing before).

Honestly I'm not sure exactly how I can argue now that it should be allowed back into the DYK process. Obviously I will have to deal with the tone tag - that's something I'll sort out right after messaging you - but I have a gut feeling that now people have identified that this article was formerly deleted it's going to be instantly shot down every time I try to put it back in. With your far greater experience of peer reviews and working with other users (there's a reason I often keep to myself and avoid peer reviews, and this kind of thing is exactly it...) do you know anything I can cite in my defence, or might you perhaps have a good argument up your sleeve in case I encounter resistance pushing this back through? <b style="color:#000000;background:#AAD0FF;">Falastur2</b> Talk 13:15, 17 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks again for your comments on this topic. I've now made a comment on WP:FOOTBALL's talk page which I hope which initiate a debate which resolves the notability issue. Just keeping you in the loop. <b style="color:#000000;background:#AAD0FF;">Falastur2</b> Talk 20:31, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

William Thompson/Thomson
Hello! I've discovered an interesting problem. There are two articles about Scottish players: William Thompson (footballer) and William Thomson (Dumbarton footballer). But in fact it is the one person! English sources give his surname as Thompson (,, books - Shury, Alan & Landamore, Brian. The Definitive Newton Heath F.C., Iain McCartney. The official Manchester United Players A-Z and so on), while in Scottish sources he is Thomson. How did I found that these two are the same person? See this source: http://www.sonsarchive.com/player.php?id=5136, quote: Also Played For: Aston Villa, Clyde, Newton Heath. In statistics section for Dumbarton the whole season 1893-94 is missing (at that moment he was playing in England for Aston Villa and Newton Heath!). Also there is no such player with Thompson surname in Dumbarton history except Bruce Thompson (you can search). So I suggest to merge the two articles, but the problem is how to prove the points I made above. Thanks. --Corwin of Amber (talk) 15:36, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

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Just ignore him
Then maybe he will go away, he just sounds like a pubescent kid to me. I don't see any editor that can help wikipedia there. Govvy (talk) 12:27, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

2018 NFL Draft
Hoping you have some insight on the 2018 NFL Draft trades refs and why Rounds 5 & 7 are in two columns. I suspect it has something to do with the refn use but don't see anything different from previous years or other rounds. Thanks in advance. Dabullzrule (talk) 03:28, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Spurs 3 - 4 City
Just wanted to say thanks for your help with the article, now that the AfD has been closed. Knowing I had another person fighting my corner gave me a lot more energy to keep pushing back. <b style="color:#000000;background:#AAD0FF;">Falastur2</b> Talk 18:06, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
 * :/ It was still a no-consensus, that's not really a win for you. Would of been better to put that information in the Spurs season page in my opinion. Govvy (talk) 20:40, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
 * It's better than a delete, which is what has happened for every other match article I've ever created. Anyway, my purpose here was only to thank PeeJay for being true to his word and giving me the assistance he offered a few weeks back, when I honestly didn't think an AfD was a likelihood. <b style="color:#000000;background:#AAD0FF;">Falastur2</b> Talk 23:02, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I honestly think we're slightly too restrictive when it comes to recording notable games, but I dunno. When so many are played every single year, there's bound to be at least one that produces an unlikely result. I was convinced, though, by the evidence that says this game keeps coming up when the all-time great FA Cup comebacks are mentioned. But maybe that's too narrow a definition of what counts as a notable game. I think a "no consensus" was the right decision, but I wouldn't necessarily hold out much hope of it surviving if it's ever nominated for deletion again. Hopefully by then Wikipedia's notability criteria will have slackened a bit, but it's a hard one to call. – PeeJay 23:11, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, I thought it was a hard one to call, I was just running on GNG guidelines, I was quite disappointed with some of the delete arguments know, to me there seemed to be a failure to establish what guidelines single games come under, it might need addressing on the project. Govvy (talk) 23:16, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Absolutely, no one’s saying you made your choice in bad faith. Some of the arguments seemed to go into the discussion with a preconceived idea that the match simply wasn’t notable without actually looking at the sources. But yes, perhaps this needs to be discussed more generally at WT:FOOTY. – PeeJay 06:49, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

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Request to help in Discussion
Please help us in this Discussion. Shahin (talk) 11:51, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Michael Carrick
I did without knowing that the reverted reversion can be easier to read, as said by User:Struway2. Iggy (Swan) 18:23, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Re: 1994 World Cup Change
I'd argue that while your change is accurate it doesn't belong. The paragraph references international competition not the professionals league. To me it seems unnecessarily condescending (even though accurate). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Atorts1106 (talk • contribs) 19:11, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Precious four years!
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:30, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

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Ray Wilkins
Hi PeeJay2K3. I noticed this. Could you please remember that we cannot use tabloid sources on BLPs, which includes people who have recently died? Thanks a lot. --John (talk) 14:16, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Discussion at Template:Did you know nominations/Triangular corner flags in English football
You are invited to join the discussion at Template:Did you know nominations/Triangular corner flags in English football. In particular, you may wish to reply to The C of E's comment there. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 09:13, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Discussion at Articles for deletion/Triangular corner flags in English football
You are invited to join the discussion at Articles for deletion/Triangular corner flags in English football. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 09:42, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Ballon d'Or infoboxes
Your argument is invalid. infoboxes exists on all pages before 1999, and are a necessity for award ceremonies pages. Boxes at the top serve as an easier navigation tool, rather than bottom. What about X is invalid, as the contemporary pages all have the same infoboxes. -- AlfonsoTheEditor (talk) 15:38, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Formation
Hey, I want to create lineup formation similar to the one you have done for 1999 UEFA Champions League Final. Can you share how you did that? Coderzombie (talk) 10:04, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Can you help out with this? Coderzombie (talk) 15:56, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Take your issue to the Inter Milan article, not some side article
Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:47, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

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Scott McTominay
Hi, PeeJay2K3! I saw you removed the Manager's Player of the Year award from Scott McTominay's article, describing it as "irrelevant". How so? R96Skinner (talk) 22:34, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I do see your point, I even wondered that when adding it so I was conflicted. I don't really mind if it's included or not honestly, but it seemed to be treated like any other award on the night and in the club's press releases so I thought it was worth noting. We'll see if any other editors come by and add it, if so we'll open a discussion - if not, no issues. Thanks for responding! R96Skinner (talk) 22:45, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Fletcher Moss Rangers
Hey PeeJay2K3! I see that you are fellow MUFC fan, so is it okay if you help out a Red Devil and improve an article that i created for the Manchester-based club, Fletcher Moss Rangers F.C. Thanks. The Optimistic One (talk) 15:26, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

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Man U article,
I know the general rule that you shouldn't have a comma after an And! But of late, every time I review and read parts of the edits on it, some of the English has gotten that little poorer in my opinion! :( Govvy (talk) 22:17, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
 * heh, I know, so much to keep tabs on, it's just I feel Manchester United article is one of the top articles for the football project and we should make sure it's one of the best ones. Govvy (talk) 22:23, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

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Sir Alex Ferguson trophies
'Major' includes all trophies bar the Community Shield. Hence 28, not 38. BRACK66 (talk) 17:27, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Not the guy whose page it is but as it concerns an article thats recently gone through a lot of debate and since it concerns general wiki policy: there is no such thing as 'major' trophies, its literally a made up term parts of the English press use. No basis to be used in an encyclopedia, the Community Shield is an official honour that counts like the rest on an official basis. Davefelmer (talk) 02:12, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I don’t have a problem with the term being made up by the press (after all, who else would make it up?), I just have a problem with people using different definitions of “major” and “minor” to suit different agendas. Why is the Community Shield minor but the UEFA Super Cup isn’t? Or the FIFA Club World Cup? And what is it that sets those super cups apart from the likes of the Emirates Cup or the Premier League Asia Trophy? – PeeJay 08:07, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Fair enough point. I actually agree, and consider all 'one game' trophies to be minor. Sir Alex actually won 25 trophies in tournaments that required a series of games over a period of time. Maybe the page should say 25 major and 13 minor? BRACK66 (talk) 11:18, 30 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Thats the point, there is no difference between the Community Shield, UEFA Super Cup, CWC or the League Cup. They are all official honours. The term 'major' trophy doesnt exist outside of sections of the English press, it has no clear meaning or definition and often arbitrarily takes out random trophies from the count to artificially make one club look better or worse than it is in reality. There is no clear consistency for the use of the term so there is no real ground to include it in an encyclopedia. We can't use your idea either BRACK66 because it is just your opinion rather than conclusive fact, conclusive fact is that they are all official trophies. The difference between stuff like the CS and CWC and stuff like the Emirates Cup is that the former are official, competitive matches, and the EC is an example of an unofficial friendly. If you score 1 goal in the Community Shield you have scored 1 goal that season, if you score in the Emirates Cup it doesnt count because its not a competitive game. Davefelmer (talk) 17:24, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Charlie Scott (footballer)
Not sure why you're repeatededly trying to "clean up" this article by re-formatting the infobox against the template documentation??? GiantSnowman 09:25, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Neater? Not a reason. I've fixed the infobox and kept your referencing changes. GiantSnowman 09:35, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
 * You should have exlained your changes, particularly after you were reverted the first time...but we got there in the end! GiantSnowman 09:41, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I initially saw no benefits to any of your changes, simple as. GiantSnowman 09:44, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
 * No, I did... GiantSnowman 09:46, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Err that's kinda the point of edit summaries... GiantSnowman 09:52, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I've already said I did... GiantSnowman 16:42, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't care what you believe - and pot, kettle, black? GiantSnowman 18:19, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Swansea rfc badge.png
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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 18:05, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

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RM: Inter Milan
Is there the possibility of another RM? I agree with you: the club doesn't typically refer to itself as "Inter Milan", so we should follow WP:NCI and go with a name that they do use, i.e. "F.C. Internazionale Milano". I'm not able to sustain a RM because I've got a basic knowledge of English.--Dipralb (talk) 21:16, 27 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Do you think that WP:NCI isn't a good reason to start a new RM? And what about this reason? Anyway, I hope you start a new RM. Perhaps, this time the decision would be different.--Dipralb (talk) 17:09, 28 June 2018 (UTC)


 * IMHO we should try. Naming conventions (sports teams) shoul be a good reason. I will support you obviously.--Dipralb (talk) 17:21, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

The World Cup talk page isn't a forum
and isn't the place for people to post silly comments, those should be removed. Govvy (talk) 18:24, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Bristol meetup
You have previously attended or expressed an interest in attending a meetup in Cardiff, so you might be also be interested in one I am organising not too far away in Bristol this summer - provisionally Saturday 1 September 2018. For details see Meetup/Bristol/3 to join the discussion, including expressing preferences about dates and venues, see the talk page at m:Talk:Meetup/Bristol/3. Thryduulf (talk) 19:39, 30 June 2018 (UTC)