User talk:PeeJay/Archive 31

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Last minute goal
In each of my editions, I have clearly demonstrated the clear importance of these events by demonstrating them in the content of the footnotes. The article is full of information about events that did not demonstrate any significance of these incidents, and you removed the events that decided about the Polish championship (an own goal in the most important Krakow derby in history, which took away the championship from Wisła and decided to keep its biggest rival); which caused the fury of Polish fans towards the referee and reactions at the highest government level (Austria-Poland); which are considered one of the most traumatic matches in the modern history of Polish football (Germany-Poland, 2006) and which deprived the Polish national team of its first victory over its biggest rival (Poland-Germany, 2011). Adam Didur (talk) 11:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

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Eduardo Reyes Ortiz
Eduardo Reyes Ortiz was born on 18 September 1894. My source of information is twitter.com/koloskov_serge Sean64172 (talk) 14:38, 10 April 2024 (UTC)


 * That Twitter account doesn't even exist, and even if it did, random Twitter accounts are not a reliable source of information. – PeeJay 15:03, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Jason Jones-Hughes
Aoidh (talk) 00:03, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

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UEFA Champions League Sponsors List
Hello,

Personally I don't understand by your reason to remove the list again, saying "we don't need that". I mean, why this only became a problem after all those years? MArvAlcao17 (talk) 01:55, 31 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Also, that list includes regional sponsors which people might not known. It's a good piece of information. MArvAlcao17 (talk) 02:58, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Sure, people might not know about the minor sponsors, but all they would have to do is click through to UEFA’s website and a big list of sponsors will be available there. Wikipedia is not meant to be an indiscriminate collection of info, we have to show some editorial judgement. – PeeJay 06:40, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Those regional sponsors are not being shown on the website unless they're in the area which that regional sponsors intend to target (Example: Strauss and Expedia for the US market, so they can only see those logos in the UEFA website if they access that in the US, IRL or via VPN).
 * Such info are not indiscriminate. I just don't get it, that was a mainstay in the UCL wiki page for around a decade (with updates) and it wasn't until now it became a problem? MArvAlcao17 (talk) 06:54, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Of course it’s indiscriminate. A full list of sponsors is the sort of thing that would only be of interest to a small number of people reading that article. The vast majority of people neither need to know or care that the UCL has a US-only sponsor called Engelbert Strauss. – PeeJay 06:58, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It's not like those numbers are that small.
 * if some people aren't interested they can just skip those section. No need to remove those unless it has false information, which is not in this case.
 * Also, according to the Wikipedia "an indiscriminate collection of information would be a collection of information gathered "without care or making distinctions" or in a "thoughtless" manner".
 * If you think that lists are made "without care" or "thoughtless", tell me how those who add it being such that way? I mean it's being checked to make sure it's factually accurate, it's been cited with the announcement from the UEFA website. MArvAlcao17 (talk) 07:10, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Something being factually accurate is not the only deciding factor for whether it should be included on Wikipedia. You've not provided any reason to include this information aside from "some people might find it interesting", but those numbers are in fact quite small. – PeeJay 08:17, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm not the one who add the list in the 1st place, just updated that few months ago.
 * It's not about "some people might find it interesting" and "but those numbers are in fact quite small" is not a valid enough reason to justify its removal.
 * And Where were you after all these years? Millions of readers/editors for a decade or so not considered that as a problem even though they might not be interested on that and suddenly you did it. MArvAlcao17 (talk) 08:24, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * So what? The amount of time that something has existed in an article has no bearing on whether it should be included in the article. As @Silent Nemesis2710 pointed out in their original edit summary, the list is a violation of WP:PROMOTION and WP:DIRECTORY. Ignorance of those policies/guidelines is not a valid reason to ignore them. – PeeJay 08:28, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * If that list is considered as an advertising then so does this entire website.
 * "Advertising, marketing, publicity, or public relations. Information about companies and products must be written in an objective and unbiased style, free of puffery."
 * Where's the puffery in that? MArvAlcao17 (talk) 08:34, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * There was discussion on this before, last year, where it was agreed that it was unnecessary. Other sporting events do not have a "sponsorship" section. It is an ad on an encyclopedia page, and violates the two policies I listed. WP:PROMOTION and WP:DIRECTORY already cover this.
 * > if some people aren't interested they can just skip those section.
 * We should go by the policies defined, which explicitly state that wikipedia is not meant to be a catalog of all information (WP:DIRECTORY). Silent Nemesis2710 (talk) 18:15, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * If that mere list is considered as an advertising then this whole site is a place of advertising.
 * Can you please give me the site of the discussion and the detailed explanation of those violation? Thank you. MArvAlcao17 (talk) 07:26, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * "where it was agreed that it was unnecessary."
 * Whether it's unnecessary or not is a subjective conclusion. The matter is the interpretation of those two policies. MArvAlcao17 (talk) 07:39, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

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FLRC
I have nominated List of Minnesota Vikings starting quarterbacks for featured list removal. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 18:24, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

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Why are you such a racist arsehole?
I don't know if you hate religion or just the Bible, but please stop bashing cultures not of yours like a colonizer. AllenBealJones (talk) 15:57, 17 June 2024 (UTC)


 * My friend, please stop interpreting legitimate criticism of your edits as criticism of your religion. As I have pointed out to you, the pronunciation of the biblical figure Asaph's name does not apply to all entries in the Asaph article, and it is misleading to add only one pronunciation to the top of the article as though it applies to all members of that list. You have correctly added it to the biblical figure's article, but do not restore it to the general article again. – PeeJay 16:07, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Furthermore, please refrain from making personal attacks against other editors. If this continues, you won't last much longer here. – PeeJay 16:08, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I keep telling you why you're wrong. I keep telling you that this is the pronunciation of everything under it since it's all related. But you are a racist colonizer that uses threats against other people. You deserve to be called what you are, a racist. AllenBealJones (talk) 16:30, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm also not friends with racist people like you who delete the truth of other cultures because it doesn't fit their narrative, instead of adding to it. AllenBealJones (talk) 16:32, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * And I'm telling you, as someone who is literally from the city of St Asaph, that that place is not pronounced the same way. They are not all pronounced the same, you're just too blinkered to see it. I await your apologies. – PeeJay 16:33, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * So stop being a racist colonizer and deny how other people say it in other parts of the world and add to it with both an American & British pronunciation. You can't say "Ethan" properly either, but that's a common name. Like I told you already, you dense racist. The world doesn't stop at Liverpool. Stop being racist. Stop making threats. Stop hating on other cultures. Stop thinking the world shines from your fart. AllenBealJones (talk) 16:38, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * No one is denying how anyone pronounces that name, but the place to put the pronunciation is on the specific pages for individuals who use that name. As I said to you before, there are different ways to pronounce the name within the broad spheres of American and British English. But obviously you have no interest in that since it doesn't fit your victim narrative. – PeeJay 16:41, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * It fits your threats because you are coward and not a real person who can't cooperate, and can't include other things too. This is your racist, and I hope Jesus helps you see through your dense racism because someone in person will answer your threats with your sickening attitude. AllenBealJones (talk) 16:44, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 17
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited 2005–06 Manchester City F.C. season, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Andy Hall and Mike Dean.

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Spelling of non-English names and your edits relating to rugbyboxes in Super Rugby articles
Hi PeeJay, I've noticed that you have removed the apostrophe from the names of a few players with Samoan names, the brothers Allan Ala'alatoa and Michael Ala'alatoa. Maybe you've done it with more names. On what MoS is this change based? We're not talking about a different script here; it's Latin script that we can all read. Are you absolutely certain that this is the correct spelling?

Another edit is changing collapsible rugbyboxes to uncollapsed rugbyboxes in Super Rugby articles. We've discussed this topic before and it is clear there is no consensus for or against the use of either uncollapsed or collapsible rugbyboxes. This means that you, as an individual editor can't impose your personal preference for uncollapsed rugbyboxes on other editors. We've traditionally always used collapsible rugbyboxes for Super Rugby and a few other competitions and it's not up to you to decide that that should be changed. Collapsible rugbyboxes are allowed. Please, can you revert these changes and don't force other editors to do so? It's extremely time-consuming and, frankly, annoying. Please, refrain from any similar changes to rugbyboxes until consensus about this topic has been reached. Thanks. Ruggalicious (talk) 03:37, 28 June 2024 (UTC)


 * First, many sources spell the Alaalatoas' names without the apostrophe, including the players themselves (see Michael Alaalatoa's Instagram and Allan Alaalatoa's profile with the Brumbies). I'll concede that more sources keep the apostrophe for Michael, but since he doesn't use the apostrophe, I think it's a valid change. As for the collapsible boxes, I'll direct you to MOS:COLLAPSE, which says that "content in an article should never be collapsed by default". It also says, "If information in a list, infobox, or other non-navigational content seems extraneous or trivial enough to inspire pre-collapsing it, consider raising a discussion on the article talk page about whether it should be included at all". Based on this, collapsible boxes should never be used. It is not a personal preference but an attempt to get these articles to comply with Wikipedia's manual of style. – PeeJay 08:51, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Okay, thank you for that explanation. I see that MOS:COLLAPSE was very recently changed and given that people don't seem to get notified of such changes, I wasn't aware of this. The reasons given for not using a collapsible template are now broader and much clearer than previously. The accessibility reason for using the uncollapsed rugbybox is reasonably convincing in this particular case, although I can see all the content on my mobile phone when rugbybox collapsible is used (I just checked), but there may be differences between operating systems and browsers. I'll keep that in mind for articles I'm working on.
 * Can I ask you, for the future, when you make changes like this, to not just write "no reason to use collapsible boxes" or "cleanup" in your edit summary, but to refer directly to the MOS, for example "changed collapsible box to uncollapsed box for accessibility reasons, refer MOS:COLLAPSE", which explains far more clearly why you think a change is justified than something that sounds like a personal preference? And to include this reason in every edit summary where it applies and not just "same again", which is not helpful at all to editors with many articles or their "watch list"? Better edit summaries result in fewer reactions like mine above.
 * I have one more question at this stage. I noticed that in the article List of 2020 Super Rugby matches, you have changed (in the rugbybox) the parameter "Home" and "Away" to "team1" and "team2". Why is this?
 * Finally, I see how much time and effort you've put in all these articles. Although I may not find all the changes that important (because they are minor changes to the code only and not visible to readers), I do admire your dedication! Ruggalicious (talk) 11:49, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your understanding and appreciation. Regarding the home/team1 thing, "team1" is the preferred parameter now, since not all games have home and away teams (like at the World Cup). I wouldn't bother doing an edit just to change all these, but if I'm editing something else, especially something this extensive, I'll incorporate it. – PeeJay 11:55, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Where can I find the decision that "team1" is now the preferred parameter? I'd like to see the discussion about this. It can be easily argued that the "home" team is the team that is named first and "away" team the team that is named second. It's a bit over the top to change a parameter for tournaments played at one or two (neutral) venues when it's perfectly suitable for most occasions (like competitions), as a simple explanation on the page of the rugbybox template would suffice. Parameter changes should be a last resort. I hope that at least the existing "home" and "away" parameter will not be deprecated in the future? Ruggalicious (talk) 12:14, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Sure, the home/team1 and away/team2 parameters are functionally identical. If you want to carry on using and, go right ahead, but  and  apply in all cases, while  and  don't. – PeeJay 12:45, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * and also don't apply to club tournament finals, I'll add. – PeeJay 12:45, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * That's true for some club tournaments, but certainly not all of them! Good to know that the "home" and "away" parameters will not be deprecated. Ruggalicious (talk) 12:51, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah, there's no reason to deprecate the home and away parameters entirely, but as I say, they're functionally identical to the team1 and team2 parameters, so the use of one over the other is pretty moot. Nevertheless, if I'm in the process of a large edit to a page, I'll always change to team1 and team2 (if I remember and can be bothered). – PeeJay 13:21, 28 June 2024 (UTC)