User talk:Pencefn/Archive07Q3

The Archive of my Talk Page during July, August and September 2007. Archive Index

Historical Rail Insert
Hey, do we have a definitive way of writing the "Line and station closed" bits etc? I thought we the general concise (I'm sure it was talked about somewhere) was that we were writing them all in italics, with only the 'Line' having a capital letter, and not bothering to put "Line and station open" if that was the case as it seemed unnecessary. Just wondering what you think so we're all working from the same page, cos after it was briefly talked about before I spent literally hours changing dozens of pages to the above format (i.e. the way I had written the Ibrox page as an example). :)

Not really too fussed about what way it done, I'm just so pernickity that I'd like we were both doing the same thing! --Dreamer84 21:24, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The way I have been doing it is as follows:-

!Wiki Text !As displayed !Example
 * Line and Station open
 * Whitecraigs
 * Line open; Station closed
 * Thurso
 * Line closed; Station open
 * Carmyle
 * Line and Station closed
 * Kelvinbridge
 * }
 * Line closed; Station open
 * Carmyle
 * Line and Station closed
 * Kelvinbridge
 * }
 * Line and Station closed
 * Kelvinbridge
 * }


 * Feel free to amend as appropriate. A standard approach is required. The Kilbarchan Loop Line is a classic case of where this approach is not followed. As regards when it should be applied, my preference is that is always applied tothe the Historical Line Inserts. --Stewart 21:38, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I can't really decide whether the 'S' in station should be capitalised, there's no other instances of doing so anywhere else in the articles, I prefer a lower case 's', I think anyway. I'm willing that start using "Line and station open" though. How about a compromise, I'll start using "Line and station open" if you drop to a lower case 's'? So...

!Wiki Text !As displayed !Example
 * Line and station open
 * Whitecraigs
 * Line open; station closed
 * Thurso
 * Line closed; station open
 * Carmyle
 * Line and station closed
 * Kelvinbridge
 * }
 * But italics or no italics?
 * I'm sure of all the things to discuss on Wikipedia this comes in at the bottom somewhere! Not sure I see what's wrong with the Kilbarchan Loop Line stations though, although most still have the old 'yellow' colour. Those pages are in need of infoboxes and better referencing though, will see if I can get that done soon. --Dreamer84 21:51, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Carmyle
 * Line and station closed
 * Kelvinbridge
 * }
 * But italics or no italics?
 * I'm sure of all the things to discuss on Wikipedia this comes in at the bottom somewhere! Not sure I see what's wrong with the Kilbarchan Loop Line stations though, although most still have the old 'yellow' colour. Those pages are in need of infoboxes and better referencing though, will see if I can get that done soon. --Dreamer84 21:51, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * But italics or no italics?
 * I'm sure of all the things to discuss on Wikipedia this comes in at the bottom somewhere! Not sure I see what's wrong with the Kilbarchan Loop Line stations though, although most still have the old 'yellow' colour. Those pages are in need of infoboxes and better referencing though, will see if I can get that done soon. --Dreamer84 21:51, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I am happy with the lower case "S". As regards italics, I have no preference. Let us go with....

!Wiki Text !As displayed !Example
 * Line and station open
 * Whitecraigs
 * Line open; station closed
 * Thurso
 * Line closed; station open
 * Carmyle
 * Line and station closed
 * Kelvinbridge
 * }
 * There a few exceptions, i.e. the L&DR out of Exhibition Centre, and around Bowling where sections of line are still open between stations. These willhave to be considered on a case by case basis. Now how do we spread this? --Stewart 22:03, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Line closed; station open
 * Carmyle
 * Line and station closed
 * Kelvinbridge
 * }
 * There a few exceptions, i.e. the L&DR out of Exhibition Centre, and around Bowling where sections of line are still open between stations. These willhave to be considered on a case by case basis. Now how do we spread this? --Stewart 22:03, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * }
 * There a few exceptions, i.e. the L&DR out of Exhibition Centre, and around Bowling where sections of line are still open between stations. These willhave to be considered on a case by case basis. Now how do we spread this? --Stewart 22:03, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm good to go with that. As for spreading, perhaps somewhere on the WP:TIS for starters? Not sure what the stance is for the rest of the UK, I'm not even sure if the Historical Rail Start/Insert is even widely used in non-Scottish articles? There's not a lot of people who create these boxes at the moment for Scottish stations from what I've seen anyway, so I think we should just keep doing what we're doing as well and hopefully others will follow suit. --Dreamer84 22:14, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Railway templates
I see you have enthusiastically adapted the German railway templates for use in railways in the UK. A fantastic amount of work and a labour of love I am sure. Have you been participating in the debates concerning the future development of these templates? There is a movement afoot to unify and standardise them within English namespace. Considering how much work you have already done, you may be against this. But the new templates would be reverse-compatible. Your pages would continue to function so long as no one in the German namespace changes anything there. That is really the point -- EN WP remains beholden to DE WP and we (EN) want to go out on our own and take it all much further. As an experienced user of the current system of icons, I would appreciate hearing about any problems or frustrations you would hope to see fixed in future development. We are talking in WP:TRAIL on the Talk page, under "RDT: Uber-Template". BeeTea 20:25, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Ardrossan Railway
Hey, like the improvements to the Ardrossan Railway route map, couldn't figure out a good way of portraying the Doura branch but it seems so obvious now! What made you put in the two L&AR Ardrossan stations though? --Dreamer84 23:27, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The reason for the two L&AR Ardrossan stations was to put the stations around the harbour into context. This also follows what I did for the L&AR around Lugton (incidenatally the connection between the L&AR and the Glasgow Central Railway does not look right) and recently for the Arbroath and Forfar Railway andAberdeen Railway where they met around Guthrie. --Stewart 07:10, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * A fair enough point. Ardrossan Railway is still missing the Nobel line, not quite sure why I didn't put it in when I made the map. Problem is how detailed do we get with industrial locations? The Nobel station is obvious, but if we start adding the nearby Ardeer Iron Works, then you have to add the even closer Ardeer Foundry, Auchenharvie Colliery, Brick Works etc. Where should the line be? --Dreamer84 18:04, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Scottish Historical Railways
I have now restarted my work through the Scottish Historical Railways. I will undertaking a review of my previous work, hence the reworking of the Aberdeen Railway and Ardrossan Railway route maps. --Stewart 07:10, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks good, the dotted line to represent a continuation elsewhere is much more satisfactory that what we had before. --Dreamer84 18:04, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

UK nuclear plant location map
Hey, thanks for your hard work! I just want run some style guidelines for the location maps by you that I've been using.

Notably, for multiple plants or different kinds of plants in the same location, I've been trying my absolute hardest to not clutter the map with more names than we need. For instance, if there is a location with 2 plants very near to each other that are "Plant A" and "Plant B", my ultimate plan for the map is to have one name on the map that says "Plant A, B" with Wikilinks on each A and B.

Sure, in some cases this may be impossible. For instance, it's discovered that Ao Ling and Daya Bay are physically separated by half-a-mile, but use different technology and completely independent, then yeah, one will have to go on the right with the other on the left. However, if we ever get more than that, we've reached the limitations of the Location map template (a good reason to keep things compact as possible when expanding). Anyway, I'm sure you'll develop you're own likes and dislikes with them as well. Happy editing. -Theanphibian (talk • contribs) 23:01, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay, you bring up good points, and those do seem to be very separate, I just want to keep all the text on the map from running into each other. Looking at Canada and the United States, I pretty much threw my hands up and declared that it would be impossible to make a location map template for those.  The map is too big, there are too many stations close together, and there is not enough flexibility with placement of names.  Eventually I'm sure we'll develop a solution, but I'm at a loss for now. -Theanphibian (talk • contribs) 23:16, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

That's just the thing, there are a LOT of limitations associated with making the maps this way. If you wanted to give a full and accurate picture of the nuclear plants in a country, you would probably want something that looks like this:. But of course, none of us are probably very good at such map making, and the product would be minimally editable by other users. So the answer we have so far is not much more than a map organized collection of links. But still, this way it's very upgradeable, but doing much would take a lot of work with the component templates as well. To answer your question, if a site has one or more operating reactors, I've just called it an operating plant. -Theanphibian (talk • contribs) 23:35, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Template:Barrhead Branch edit conflict
Was having difficulty getting Barrhead Central in especially with the link to Nitshill. Have now added what I think is the correct arrangement on lines in Barrhead. Thoughts? Also have a look at, and expand the main article. Regards.... --Stewart 17:04, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Definately a complicated one, sorry for butting in during your edits. Well done on a difficult area. The only problem I can see is that according to OS maps the Nitshill link from Barrhead Central joined the main GBKJR before the Paisley and Barrhead District flyover, i.e. it didn't pass under it. Infact the connection was made almost right next to where the Barrhead Branch passed under the GBKJR. I've noticed that RAILScot has the connection passing under the P&B District before joining the main line.
 * No idea how to show that in the diagram though, there isn't enough room! --Dreamer84 17:14, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Edinburgh & Glasgow Railway
Hi Stewart,

I've re-assessed this article as you requested. My re-assessment remains the same, however I concur with your removal of the "unref" flag.

I've added some suggestions for improvement in Talk:Edinburgh and Glasgow Railway/Comments.

I'm happy to help improve it, next week; and it can be reassessed again. My first consideration was to Class it as a Stub, but the inclusion of the Map (which involves a lot of effort) and the junctions to other lines section (which also involved a lot of effort) persuaded me to class it as a Start.Pyrotec 23:09, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Trains in Scotland - maps
Stewart - thanks for referring me to the project. I'm afraid I don't know a lot about the subject matter, relatively speaking, but I'm happy to lend my cartographic skills if you have any maps you would like to see rationalised. AlexTiefling 15:53, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Ardrossan Railway Map
Excellent idea Stewart, very useful (although the Ardrossan Town to Largs Branch connection no longer exists, didn't want to change it incase you were still working on the template).


 * Great job on all the templates you've been doing over the last couple of weeks, especially some of the more 'hairy' ones. --Dreamer84 23:23, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Fixed --Stewart 23:33, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

User:Dreamer84/Sandboxes/Lanarkshire and Ayrshire Railway
Oops - sorry, not quite sure what happened there. I was not paying attention when I revised the references and updated your page. It might be better to redirect my sandbox to yours or vice versa. --Stewart 19:16, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
 * No prob, I messed up the references in the first place anyway. Good idea I'll redirect to yours, saves updating three pages every time. --Dreamer84 21:50, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Fairlie Low
This is an iffy one. I avoided making this page on purpose because I have my doubts this ever actually existed. The only reference is a vague mention on RAILScot to some source that I'm not actually of what it is. I don't really think there's enough information to make an article, and there's nothing to verify the station even existed.

I reckon the mention in whatever book RAILScot is refering to was actually an alternate name for the Pier station. --Dreamer84 21:50, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Another look at Jowett refers to a Goods Station called Fairlie Harbour --Stewart 21:56, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Fairlie Harbour probably = Fairlie Pier. There's a photo in the Stansfield book of the pier station that shows what appears to be a goods yard to the far right. --Dreamer84 22:45, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi Stewart, I've replied in my talkpage - in summary I can only find Fairlie Pier and one other station that changed its name several times. Butt gives the Jowlett map refs, which I've added to my talk page.Pyrotec 16:47, 23 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I had a quick look at Alistair Deayton's Glasgow & South Western and other Steamers. There is a G.E. Langmuir collection in the Mitchell library. They are pictures of boats.Pyrotec 18:24, 23 August 2007 (UTC)


 * See consolidated discussion at Talk:Largs Branch (Stewart 17:07, 24 August 2007 (UTC))

Fairlie Pier
The Fairlie Pier entry has the link to Fairlie marked as "Line and station closed", Fairlie still is open, and the line from the pier is still open to an extent, albeit only as sidings. Douglasnicol 17:55, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Stourbridge Branch
Thanks for leaving your opinions - it's nice to know I'm not a sole voice sometimes :-) – Tivedshambo (talk) 21:28, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Pollokshields railway station
Hi Stewart. The above article currently has wikilinks to Shields Road railway station and Shields railway station, which redirect back to Pollokshields railway station. My first thought was to remove these self-links, or is it the intention to eventually have separate articles for each station? Signalhead 19:36, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

BS Summit Icon
I've created STRSummit, based on a similar icon for public footpaths (fSTRSummit) - see Birmingham to Worcester via Bromsgrove Line for an example. If this is acceptable, I'll create an ex version later. – Tivedshambo (talk) 09:54, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Largs Branch pictures
Great work - at least the weather was kind for you yesterday when you the pictures at Fairlie. Today at Hunterston the weather was diabolical and would not have been conducive to good photos. --Stewart (talk)  19:45, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks, think I got lucky as it seemed like it would rain any moment! Was disappointed when I went to get a photo of the site of Fairlie Pier, all I got was a generic shot of some grass and bushes. Something quite interesting at Fairlie station though was this sign, looking modern, yet showing the old "Fairlie High" name. --Dreamer84 19:54, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Have found some pictures I took at Largs and Fairlie in April 1984 (just after I bought my first SLR. Currently scanning the negatives. The Fairlie High sign goes back to when the Hunterston A&B flasks were shipped from the station. --Stewart (talk)  21:08, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Excellent photos of Fairlie and Largs Stewart, thanks for putting them up. --Dreamer84 17:55, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Arkleston Junction
Hi Stewart,

I partially replied on the relevant talk page with the information I had to hand, which was inconclusive, earlier this afternoon. Since then I've tracked down an accident at Arkleston Junction signal box on 20 May 1958; it has a track diagram. I've pasted the link into the talk page.Pyrotec 14:56, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Paisley and Barrhead District Railway
Thanks for tidying up and sorting out my text. I have re-arranged the references so they match the order in the text. I assume you were going to do that in the future revision you referred to.

all the best

Eric —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eric144 (talk • contribs) 20:00, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi Stewart, you've done a good job sorting it out. I've reassessed it from Stub to Start class, but with some more work it could make a B class. I have sufficient references & material; but not the time at present. I was in the process of swapping over Paisley East and Dyke Bar stations when we clashed - as Paisley East was a dead end it did not seem logical to have it as the start of a branch. I may even have some 1970s pictures of some of the former line up in the loft; I knew the Kelburn well in the mid 1970s.Pyrotec 21:44, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Dundee and Arboath Railway
Hi - I have done some work on Dundee and Arbroath Railway over the past few days and thought that you (I spotted your name associated with this type of work) might be interested in looking and doing some edits on it. --BustOut 14:41, 10 September 2007 (UTC)