User talk:Pentawing/achive2

U of M
I've looked at the opening. Please see my invisible comments in the edit box—claims need to be strengthened with harder evidence, although you might get away with presenting most of this evidence in a subsequent section. Can you avoid repetition of 'Ann Arbor' in the first sentence? Is there a neater abbreviation, such as UAA? Would be nice to use after first occurrence. I'll look at the rest when I get time. Tony 02:14, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * This article looks good, and you have fully addressed my comments on the peer review. The new photos are especially good, except for Image:UMHillResidenceHalls.jpg, which seems to actually be a picture of a field, with the halls almost impossible to make out in the thumb nail. I know little about the school, so I can't say much about accuracy, but it seems comprehensive. The article has a somewhat positive tone, which is almost unavoidable in school articles. One suggestion is to reduce the use of the word over. Rather than saying "over 24,800 undergraduates" say "about 24,800 undergraduates," it is more neutral, and also more accurate as "over 24,800" is an extremely imprecise statement. Maybe think of one or two negative things to say in the intro. - SimonP 03:41, 2 October 2005 (UTC)


 * A negative? Hmm... Maybe Michigan is too liberal? =p About Michigan as one of the top Us in the world, check this out. Another list is The Times Higher Education Supplement. Both lists have Michigan of Ppl Republic of A2 at Top 50. __earth 04:04, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm sure Univ Michigan is actually our UM. First, the word Univ Michigan there hyperlinks to UM A2. Secondly, it states Univ Michigan - Ann Arbor. There's only one U in Ann Arbor proper. About UM being too leftwing, maybe student life or student government. In 2004/05, it seems to me that the almost all of the Michigan Student Assembly were either democrat sympathizers or more left than that. __earth 04:48, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

I've no problem with 'over 24,800 undergraduates'—the numbers must fluctuate from semester to semester anyway. But don't write 'over'; write 'more than'.

In the opening sentence, I suppose you can't write 'The University of Michigan, Ann Arbor is a public coeducational university in Michigan, United States', can you? The name of the town could be linked on its next occurrence. It's quite clear that AA refers to its location, I'd have thought. Tony 07:07, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Alright, I gave it a once-over. Cheers. Tlogmer 06:36, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

About the image, I donno. I thought I placed it under CC-by-2.0. In any case, I've changed it to CC attribution. __earth 04:13, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Really pressed for time at the moment (editing jobs). Will try to fine time on the weekend. Tony 16:14, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

I've done the lead and the history section; I'll do the rest later. A few points:
 * The University's own websites seem to use 'U-M' with 'the'.
 * There's slight confusion in my mind between 'the University of Michigan', the 'University of Michigan, Ann Arbor', and 'U-M'. Having introduced the abbreviation right at the top, it should be used wherever possible subsequently.
 * 'faculty'—that may not be understood outside the US, so I've substituted 'members of staff'. Would 'academics' be better?
 * You announce 'coeducational' at the opening, but then becomes clear that only men were allowed to enrol in the early stages. Can you make that clear? When were women first admitted? Perhaps at the top: 'and, since ?1879, has been coed...'.
 * 'school' vs 'university' might confuse non-US readers.

See my inline comments.

Click here to leave me a message.

Tony 09:03, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Calling a university a 'school' is prevalent in North America and uncommon elsewhere. School is sometimes used to refer to a collection of departments in a field, e.g., School of Chemistry at the University of ..., comprising Departments of Inorganic, Organic, Theoretical Chemistry, etc. Tony 02:08, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I should have clarified it: I replaced the word with 'university'. Tony 02:19, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Pentawing, I've changed the ambiguous title 'Academics' to 'Teaching and learning'. The next title is no good, IMV: University activities include teaching and learning/academics. I think 'Research' deserves its own category (not subcategory) immediately after Teaching and learning, since research is prominent in the lead, and is a university's primary claim to high status. Then 'Libraries and museums' as a title. Kill off the 'University activities' title? Tony 03:23, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

The number refers to all members of the faculty, including non-tenured members. How should I word this?—Just say 'members of faculty', without 'regular' or 'tenured' as a qualifier.

The problem with 'Academics' as a title is that in the rest of the English-speaking world this term is widely used as the plural of the noun 'academic' (= university teacher/researcher); but you're referring to everything that the staff do (minus admin and research) and surely what the students do too. I guess 'Academic profile', if you really don't like 'Teaching and learning'. ('Academic activities' sounds bad).

It would be better not to nominate it until I've finished. Tony 05:08, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Structure much better (see above). I've finished; it's pretty good. One last matter: I'd LOVE you to delink all those low-value chronological item—see Make_only_links_relevant_to_the_context. Then your readers will be more likely to hit the ones that DO count. Tony 06:57, 18 October 2005 (UTC) Click here to leave me a message.

I just want to say the UM article looks great, you've improved it a lot. I saw the message you left for me in September but I have been too busy with school to do anything with the article. Maybe next term I'll have more spare time. commonbrick 00:44, 29 October 2005 (UTC)


 * It looks good to me, much improved from when I first reviewed it. - SimonP 21:12, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Not much more I can contribute -- my knowledge of U-M is limited to being a townie. Tlogmer 23:18, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

I'll look over the article this weekend and see if there are any things that could be expanded or added. commonbrick 04:58, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

The UM article looks finished to me. When I finish that hazing part (not anytime soon) I'll add it but the article is a great and ready to become a FA as it is now. commonbrick 04:41, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Congratulations on the FA. I however would like to apologize for not being too forthcoming whenever you asked for help. =(. Anyway, ready for The Game?__earth 12:59, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

City infoboxes
Creating a standard template would probably be a good idea. It seems to me like the majority of city wiki pages want to include the city skyline image at the top of the page, and if the image is separate from the infobox, this can cause some pages to render rather weird, such as putting text from the first paragraph between the image and the infobox (depending on the width of someone's individual browser). So if the image is within the infobox, that would alleviate the problem.

One other thing about the Template:Infobox City that I'm not too satisfied with, is the text used. The size of the text is a bit smaller, compared with the other infoboxes used on some cities (see Louisville, Kentucky's infobox as an example of text size). I think increasing the text size a bit would also help the display as well. Dr. Cash 18:13, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Great Blue Heron
Hey, a non-WP question.

Hey, are you still in A2? If you are, do you usually passby School of Music? If you do, have you ever noticed a huge bird by the SoM's pond? If you have, is that bird is actually Great Blue Heron?

Just curious. Was browsing WP and I thought, I've seen this bird before at SoM's little pond.

Boston
Well the article content is ok, but there are some issues that need to be fixed. I would strongly recommend you to cut down on the text, the size of the city does not make a difference. I do not blindly apply the 30kb limit, but actually review it on a case to case basis, and in this case I will ask you to cut it down to under 30 kb before I review by summarising sections. I assure you the size will be more than 30 by the time you finish. If you don't cut it down now, it will shoot to 50kb plus. I'll review tommorow. Yeah, I'm mostly inactive, though I check my watchlist daily. I am more or less free on weekends though. =Nichalp  «Talk»=  19:35, 11 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I hope you don't mind me using your user page for the review. You can move it to PR if you like.

If you can fix these, I don't see any problem in getting past FAC. =Nichalp  «Talk»=  11:30, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
 * "Commonwealth of Massachusetts" this is something new to me and it initially didn't make sense. Is it possible to rephrase it to capital of the state, or more appropriately the commonwealth...?
 * region known as New England --> add location: NE U.S.
 *  Encompassing parts of New Hampshire, parts of the states…
 * have a variety of origins --> odd sentence try "Boston has a variety of nicknames" instead
 * Same problem with AA on people's designations. John Winthrop's etc. Who were they? William Tudor might have been the king of England ;)
 * Don't start a para with a left-aligned image
 * you can move the BW history image a bit lower.
 * "Boston is named after Boston, England, a town in Lincolnshire." modifiy to: "Boston in Linconshire county in England".
 * 'Revolution (such as, text in parenthesis diverges from the topic. Embed in text instead
 * rum, fish, salt and tobacco. unwikify
 * Greater Boston, unbold, italicise instead
 * Cambridge, and Charlestown are wikified multiple times in ==Geography==
 * Under ==Demographics== again, do not begin with a left image. keep the image on the right, and move the table a little lower,
 * The image on the Beacon Hill houses are in the wrong place, move it lower, after List of Mayors of Boston, Massachusetts
 * A one line description on plurality voting?
 * Sister Cities International, Inc. (SCI), avoid linking using this style. wikify instead.
 * place the state-house image just after =State and federal agencies= right align.
 * are footnotes 4,5,6 all necessary?
 * See also: Major companies in Greater Boston, this should come at the end of the section. In general, {{main| comes after the title, and {{see also| comes at the end of a section.
 * Boston Latin School (the oldest... bracket issue again
 * number of rotaries, which have confused many drivers. bit silly having this statement, I feel.
 * Many consider Boston a highly cultured city, perhaps as a result of its intellectual reputation This is a peacock or weasel phrase.
 * That sports table looks unprofessional for a page like this, please merge with the text.
 * ==Transportation= should have two paragraphs. Merge.
 * Amtrak's Northeast Corridor and Chicago make it clear that the paragraph deals with rail transport.
 * one of those surplus images in the demographics or government sections can be added to ==economy==
 * I see a few footnotes. Recently, I've begun to object to the abuse of footnotes in favour of inotes. In this scenario, I feel that 2, 3, (4 or 5 or 6 – choose two), 7, 10 and 11 should be converted to {{tl|inote}}. Those links in the ==notes== should be added to ==references==. Use {tl|explain-inote}} under the ==Reference== section.
 * There's a category All-America city. Perhaps you could mention that award under culture.
 * I've checked the content page size, its reduced and I don't have a problem with it. (31 kb raw content.). If there is a need to cut down text, look at the ==demographics== section. Some unnecessary figures can be pushed into a main article.
 * There are nine red links, consider filling them up.


 * Convention centers, excellent addition to Boston. The national political convention in Boston (for the Democrats?) in 2004? Worth mentioning, for sure. Fg2 07:07, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I meant "blue" in the literal sense --- lots of blue links. Fg2 02:06, 16 October 2005 (UTC)


 * You're right that MIT is no longer located in Boston. But the fact that it was founded there and was origianlly called the "BOSTON Society of Natural History" leads me to believe that it deserves at least a brief mention in that paragraph. --18.95.1.21 04:40, 16 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Significant laboratories of Massachusetts Institute of Technology MIT are in Boston proper, for example at the Massachusetts Eye and Ear Infirmary and at the Longwood Medical Center institutions. dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu 09:17, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I've fixed some issues: Three things need to be addressed:
 * 1) Convert those gif images to png
 * 2) See alsos have to be at the end of the section, not the beginning. Use main in the beginning of a section. Please fix.
 * 3) That sports table makes the page look ugly, It should be converted to prose.  =Nichalp   «Talk»=  07:57, 16 October 2005 (UTC)


 * The addition is fine, but to compensate for this, the second paragraph of ==demographics== needs to be clipped. Consider having a Demographics of.... Well, a featured article should have prose, this is an encyclopedia, and the such kinds of tables are not used in any of the best articles of WP. FYI, I'd objected to Seattle during its FAC nom. AA was the only city I'd ever supported. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  19:59, 17 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I'll do what I can, though I'm pretty busy. Anything that you'd specifically like me to work on?--AaronS 02:13, 17 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I've fixed a lot of grammar on the Boston page, and added a lot of information. 'Tis good. I appreciate your work on the page, and I agree that the 'History' should be a summary. In this case, the summary gave one no feel for the town. It was just a hodge-podge of facts. Now there is a narrative. The grammar has been improved. It is well on it's way becoming a featured article. Please, do everyone a favor, and do not not revert it. LuMas 04:21, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Very well-done, Pentawing. LuMas 18:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Yeah, give it a shot at FAC. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  11:33, 25 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Penta -- just noticed something on the Boston FAC nomination that caught my eye. I wouldn't worry too much about the length of the article, and frankly I think it's ridiculous that perfectly good articles are ruled insufficient for FAC because they don't meet an arbitrary size guideline.  But that's just me. :)  I think, personally, that the stuff in the History section is fine given that there's already a History of Boston, Massachusetts article that fills in the blanks, but I wouldn't be too concerned about the size if you have to add something to it to satisfy an objection.  Good job on this; between Boston and Ann Arbor, you're pretty much WP's official Featured City Article Factory. :)  Take care --  Pack n Canes  |   say something!   22:11, 29 October 2005 (UTC)


 * This is an issue that's going to come up again and again. Remember the argument that Nichalp and I got into over the size of the Cleveland article?  My opinion: if he doesn't like the size of something, then he can take the time to cut the size down.  I hate to come across as incendiary, but this is getting out of hand.  Pretty soon, no city larger than Cleveland will ever be able to make it on FAC without someone objecting to the length.  I'd help if I could, but I worry about starting a flamewar and I don't want to do that.  Any ideas, though, are welcome.  Pack n Canes  |   say something!   23:09, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

I'll try to help out, but I'm pretty busy.--AaronS 01:18, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Congratulations on getting Boston featured! Fg2 07:39, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Congrats on getting it up to FA status. Well the page has ballooned, and the history is longer than necessary. I still believe it can be summarised further. =Nichalp  «Talk»=  08:34, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Cleveland FAC concerns
Thanks for all your help so far. I'll fix that one external link as soon as I finish this note. Two things, though: (1) Do you think the neighborhoods section would be OK without a heading? and (2) When you refer to a "cityscape", though, I'm not sure I follow what you're thinking about. Do you mean a blanket profile of the city, or something else? Thanks -- PacknCanes 03:27, 14 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Actually, as long as it doesn't substantially make the article longer (which I don't think it will), the cityscape section you describe is something that I was looking to include but couldn't find a good place for it. I'll edit it in, and remove the neighborhood heading to make the TOC look a little better.  Thanks again -- PacknCanes 03:38, 14 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the kind words. And I greatly appreciate your thoughts on making things run smoother in the article -- maybe now I can get back on a regular sleep cycle.  I won't be making Raleigh a FAC anytime soon (it's a long way from even being peer reviewed), but I'll start laying the groundwork for it and the Cities project will certainly help.  Again, I thank you for all your help on getting Cleveland to featured status.  Take care --  Pack n Canes  |   say something!   12:37, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Boston, Mass.-Map request
Boston was on my list of to-do's, but I didnt know if the regulars would be territorial about it. One favor I'd like to ask, though- Please take a look at Minneapolis, Minnesota and St. Paul, Minnesota and add your two cents to the improvements page. I'd like to get them featured at some time. How did Ann Arbor fare? SoundGod3 14:53, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I know it's Suffolk county. I did a map of Newark, NJ recently, which is in Essex county, and the name stuck in my head. Sorry. SoundGod3 16:02, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

moon
OK; it just looked a little forced—shouldn't need to brag about it to gain authority—but no big deal. Tony 04:34, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

How is it now? Tony 04:42, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Can I get your vote?
I have been nominated for an adminship and I was wondering if I could get your vote. If you feel inclined, please go to Requests for adminship/Alabamaboy and cast your "yes" or "not in a million years." Many thanks.--Alabamaboy 02:28, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'm aware of the internal politics that are at work here at Wikipedia. Heck, that stuff happens everywhere. As I've become more involved in Wiki, the more I've wanted to be involved in the inner going ons here and I must admit that when someone approached me about being an admin this seemed like a good time for this to happen. Basically, I love Wikipedia and want to make sure that it has a secure future. Still, I don't think I'll get carried away with the politics here (that's not in my nature). However, I won't shrink from it either. Best,--Alabamaboy 19:28, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Pan Am
Hey, just wanted to let you know that I nominated Pan am for the frontpage. I hope you're ok with it. Being an airline enthusiast, and PanAm being my favorite Airline, I thought it'd be great on the frontpage. PRueda29 07:21, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Hi Pentawing, please see the reply I sent you under the "discussion" area for the main Pan Am article. See if you agree with my thoughts on it. Do you wish to rewrite the paragraph yourself or would you like me to do it using a footnote or two from the book I referenced? Thanks.

User:DennisJOBrien@yahoo.com on June 8, 2006

Hi again Pentawing, I have added the citations as requested and put the paragraph back in, with a few changes. I also added some other things from the Conrad book, in other areas, that I hope you will like and find pertinent to the subject. I agree this is a special article and would not wish to harm it in any way.

User:DennisJOBrien@yahoo.com on June 9, 2006

RfA
Hi Penta

I thought I'd alert you to the fact that User Redwolf nominated me for adminship last week, which I accepted. Regrettably, this has coincided with a stouch with several huge egos whose FAC I helped on and then critiqued after my they'd trashed my entire contribution. I normally shun conflict, but here, I'm emersed in it, and I feel utterly destroyed. One of the protagonists appears to be drumming up support for his cause on other people's talk pages.

If the nomination fails, which appears likely now since the voting balance is borderline, I'll be trashing my personal page and not returning: it's just too embarrassing and unpleasant to go on.

So, if you have the inclination, the war zone is at:

Thanks

Drumming up support
Hello, Pentawing. I'm not here to take issue in any way with Tony's message above, but I couldn't help noticing your response, where you refer to "The fact that one of your antagonists is going about convincing others of their case against you". When you make that assumption, I do feel I have to appeal to you: please take a moment to click on my contributions, Gianos contributions, and Tony1's contributions, and a glance will show you which of those three people is actually going about drumming up support on talk pages. I'm not trying to drag you into this conflict, please don't be uneasy, don't even feel you have to reply. Bishonen | talk 03:01, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Response to you
Hi Pentawing,

I see that Bishonen has interceded. She's regrettably one of the chief protagonists, flying over me like a vulture. I don't quite know why she bears such a strong grudge, but geez it's some kind of sport for her, I think. The vote is not looking good, so I'm already arranging to kill off my user page after Monday, in the probable event of rejection. Funny thing is, admin duties are really inconsequential in the larger scheme; now, the issue is that WP is going to lose a valuable and hard-working contributor (he boasts) - I couldn't possibly stay after the public pillorying I've received: it's all too embarrassing and unpleasant. What was fun has turned into utter distress.

So, vote if you please, or not; maybe it won't make a difference.

Thanks, nice to communicate with you.

Tony 03:56, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm glad that debacle is over, and I'm outa here. But thanks for your vote all the same. Tony 21:46, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Colubmine Edit
Oops, I didn't copy and paste the whole thing when I reverted, thanks for the fix. PRueda29 05:13, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

I've decided to compromise with the IP address concerning the Cassie Bernall stuff, I did some additions and changes the article trying to remove the POV and include the possibility of the exchange occuring due to remarks some eyewitnesses that no matter what the investigation says they will always believe the exchanged occur. Can you please check these for me to make sure they sounds ok, and that they fit in well with the article. They're both in the "library massacre" section next to the Bernall and Schnurr encouters. Thanks. PRueda29 07:05, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! PRueda29 07:59, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for supporting my RfA
I know I've been slow in saying this, but thanks for supporting my request for adminship. It was an honor to be both nominated and approved as an admin. If there is ever any adminish (is that a word :-) things you need help with, please let me know. --Alabamaboy 16:39, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Providence
Hi Pentawing,

I was in Providence for some time in the 1970s but have been away for a long, long time. I'll be glad to add anything that comes to mind but am afraid there's not much of a concrete nature that I have to contribute. Still, you've got me thinking... and I'll continue thinking.

Thanks for all your work on it (and Boston)!

Fg2 07:01, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Hi - I saw your reply to my comment on the Providence hurricane barrier - unfortunately, I don't know much about it. When I've got a chance, I'll see what I can dig up about it, but I'm no longer in RI, so my access to hard documents is limited... And I'm in Med school, so my time is limited. But I have added it to my to do list, so what I've got, is yours. Nice work on the Providence page, by the way. Badger151 04:25, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Nice Work
Good job on those Detroit edits...--Isotope23 14:38, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Weird page (Errors?)
Hey, I wanted to ask and see if you're also getting weird pages errors on some articles. Every time I go onto an article, randomly the tabs at the top of the page are small, and half the article or userpage is in really small fonts. Your talkpage was actually like this just now. I wanted to see if it was a Wikipedia Error, or some sort of browser error on my side. Also, how did your day with PanAm on the frontpage go? I hope there wasn't too much trouble. -- PRueda29 Ptalk29 02:58, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

I asked because ever since Wilma, the internet here's been weird, and I wanted to know if I should call Comcast to complain or not, LOL; I mean, most of the font in my talk page is green! I did read the comments by that guy who knew some of those who died on PA103, that had to have been sad to lose so many friends. I remember when the Columbine article was up, some guy posted a picture of an erect penis 100 times onto the page, and people kept using the replace featured to replace the word Columbine and other common words with nonsense and profanity. As for adminship, I was actually waiting for someone to nominate me, LOL. I didn't want to do a self-nomination. Actually, it's better not to be an admin if you're focusing mostly on making articles featured. My regular edits have been cut in half since I became one (I've mostly been doing a lot of deletion off the speedy deletes page). I really don't have a project to obsess over right now. I was helping JAranda to get the Miami article up to FA, but he's had a lot of problem with vandalism to his userpage and has had like 50 impostors, so I don't want to make many edits without him around (it is his candidate and all). I'm sure I'll come across another topic to obsess over soon enough, and then you can help me copyedit that one, too! LOL.-- PRueda29 Ptalk29 03:17, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

HELP!
Can you fix up the WAGM page box of facts so it looks like the rest of the station pages. Also, can you get a picture of WAGM for the box- -tbs_funnyben

19 November 2005

I am new to Wikipedia, how to get an image in that "Broadcast box"? I found the image, I just don't know if I should get an embedded image, or go

Thanks, tbsfunnyben

Michigan State Capitol
Pentawing -- Will you PLEASE let me work on the Lansing Page! I am trying to add stuff and copyedit and you ae screwing me up. Please note my first message in the History on the page. Thank you. Jtmichcock 01:32, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I should be all finished by Sunday night. Most of the text is there and I just need to fine tune and copyedit. Jtmichcock 02:58, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Okay, have at it! Jtmichcock 21:28, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

The rooms that are the most difficult to photograph are the house and senate chambers due to security restrictions. Likewise, the interior of the governor's offices are buzzer controlled and access is limited. I'm not aware of any central clearinghouse where I could request dontions. Have you heard of this? Jtmichcock 22:17, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I have inserted a request. I do have to be in Lansing in February, but this won't be timely enough for the Superbowl. If you hear of anything, let me know. Jtmichcock 22:29, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I do have one other reference that I will be adding. I think what he said about lacking "context" is more lacking gravitas, which is an entirely different topic. I will be working on this and, if necessary, getting ready for a second nomination later. Thanks, Jtmichcock 21:50, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Neptune
Bottom line is that I don't have a clue as to what the Appearance section is trying to tell me. I don't understand the headings on the table (how is it possible that Neptune's diameter is 2.31 inches? Through what size telescope? What is "conjunction to sun"? "Opposition"? I understand the principles of retrograde and prograde, but what does that have to do with the dates?). What do all the dates mean? Are they just the dates when Neptune does the things in the headings that I don't understand? On what date is the distance to earth accurate? On what date is the diameter accurate?

I'm no astronomer (obviously), but I don't consider myself inept when it comes to the subject. I know what eccentricity means, I once calculated and still remember how many light seconds earth is from the sun, and I know from memory what earth's axial tilt is. If I were in elementrary school and using this article to do a science project, I wouldn't expect to be able to understand everything, but as a science and technology minded college student, I feel like I should at least be able to figure out, through the article or through subarticles, what everything actually means. If you don't agree, that's fine, I won't object further, but that's my perspective.

As for practical suggestions, perhaps combining the visibility and appearance sections (both mention brightness, for example) and using that to describe some of the table headings would be helpful. If the Appearance section is related to how Neptune appears from the earth (which I assume it is, since the brightness numbers in the two sections correspond), why not combine the two? Also, to clarify, I'm not looking for an explanation of prograde/retrograde on this page, just enough information to help me figure out what the stuff on the table means if I have already read the prograde/retrograde article. I'd expect the same thing out of any table&mdash;for example, a list of members of the Baseball Hall of Fame should have links so that a reader can find out what 3B means, even though I've personally known since I was four years old.

Sorry if I sound brusque; I'm just hoping all this ranting helps. Any questions, let me know. --Spangineeres (háblame)  03:33, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

I had a play around, removed some things to stop it sounding contradictory (ie one sentence talks about it being a disc, then later it talks about being star-like). Also added some clarification to the table that the diameter numbers of angular diameter and are measured in arc seconds. Other than that, all the links seemed fine. Hope that helps.Evil Monkey - Hello 04:34, 2 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I just noticed something interesting. If Neptune's rate of approach to the earth continues, for, say, the next 6,000 years, in the year 8252 it's going to experience opposition just as we experience getting smashed into by a planet 58 times as massive as ours.  I don't think we'll win.  All those scientists worried about getting hit by an asteriod in the next 5 million years need to start thinking about this much closer threat :).  Ah, the great things one can "learn" on Wikipedia. --Spangineeres  (háblame)  23:04, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

TV Market
Hi, I have noticed that in the past you have edited or created a template for a television DMA (market) in North America, or have edited an articles about television stations. Currently their are several different styles of the template being used. Because of this i have set up a workshop to obtain input on setting up a common configuration for these templates. Feel free to assist at WikiProject Television Stations/markets. Also while you are their, feel free to leave you name as a participant on the WikiProject Television Stations as well as any comments you might have, to help wikipedia improve articles on television stations. If you know some one else who has helped contribute to these templates or you think would like to help, please pass this mesage on to them. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 06:42, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Boston naming convention
Sorry about this, but I'm not sure how to contact you otherwise. I understand your argument about Boston being a potential conflict with other Bostons, but according to Wiki conventions if one particular usage is definitely the most common, that should be the name of the page. That certainly applies to Boston, as is shown by the fact that Boston is a redirect to the page of the famous city, and that page has a redirect link at the top to the Boston (disambiguation) page. That's all according to Wiki standards, except that the main city article is not named with the common name. I'm not sure how much consideration you've given this issue, but I hope you can find time to give it a bit more. If you are thinking about it, answer this question: city where movies are made... Now look it up, and tell me if you have ever seen or heard it referred to like that. What a cluster. Take care. --Serge 08:44, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

KTVX
You have received this message because you have edited a Salt Lake City media article in the past. We have recently had an edit war regarding the wording and inclusion of a paragraph on the KTVX article. In hopes of resolving this I have put together an informal survey. If you are interested, please stop by Talk:KTVX and add a vote. Thanks, A 09:15, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

FAF
At WP:FAF, you started a review of Montréal-Mirabel International Airport, which is fine, but I've changed back to the original date and oldid, since that's supposed to reflect the last passed review, and that article has not had a review pass yet. At least that's the way I've been doing it, and it seems more logical to make the date that of the last review's close and not its start, since it will hopefully improve over the course of the review. Tuf-Kat 16:41, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Coordinates of cities
Hi Pentawing,

I have a question about coordinates of cities, and thought you might know the answer, since you edit them (e.g. Providence, today). The question is this: why does Wikipedia display the coordinates of a city to the nearest second of arc? I think a second of arc (in latitude) corresponds to about 30 meters, and five seconds of arc, about 150 m (both of Providence's coordinates have multiples of five in the seconds entries, so perhaps Wikipedia rounds that way?). This level of precision seems appropriate for large public buildings, train stations, plazas, stadiums etc. but for a city it appears to be false precision.

Possibly, this level of precision is necessary for use of a map server. If that's the case, I wonder if we can hide the spurious digits so that they do not appear on the screen? I would think that for a city with an area of 50 to 100 km², we could take 7 to 10 km as a size that represents the city (those numbers being conveniently close to the square roots of 50 and 100). Since 10,000 m corresponds to about 5 or 6 minutes of arc, it appears that rounding to the nearest 5 minutes (rather than seconds) of arc would be about the right level of precision to display for a city. A link to a map server could still convey the additional information to retrieve a map with a convenient size and center.

Knowing Wikipedia, I wouldn't be surprised to find that this issue has been discussed and decided. If you can point me to a discussion, I'd be grateful.

Fg2 01:08, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Christianity
The page is in an almost constant state of flux, with different Christian persuasions often wanting their own stamp or particular perspective represented. That makes it difficult to get any stability. It's also a major vandalism target. I'd suggest posting your suggestions on the talk page. KHM03 02:01, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Zingerman's
Hi Pentawing. I'm curious why you deleted the passage on Zingerman's from the Ann Arbor article. They are a nationally-known operation, I think. Can you clarify? rodii 21:31, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Oops, missed your comments on the talk page. I'll take it there. rodii

I didn't mean to make it seem like there was a "problem." I just wanted to talk some stuff out before I charged in with an edit. No offense. rodii

Columbine Protection
I have seen that feature implemented recently, but I didn't know you coluld use it this way. I think it'd be a great idea if we could do that to the Columbine article since it seems like all the vandalism is done by anons and a lot of what new users do is experimentations, so there's nothing new or useful added to the article unless its by established users. My question would be that, if we protect it now, would it block all new users indefinately, or would new users eventually be able to edit after some time? I'm asking because if a new user wants to contribute postively, how would they be able to do so?

I can't believe I forgot to sign, oh well. What reason should I put for protecting it? Should I put a note on the talk page as well? PRueda29 / Ptalk29 / Pcontribs29 06:53, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I've done it. Thanks for suggesting it. PRueda29 / Ptalk29 / Pcontribs29 07:20, 2 January 2006 (UTC)