User talk:Peregrine Fisher/Archive 9

Requests for arbitration/Episodes and characters
An Arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Episodes and characters/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Episodes and characters/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Picaroon (t) 21:01, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Heaven by Bryan Adams.ogg)
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Jason Ewert: Liar and Cheat = facts.
Are you Jason Ewert's boyfriend? Why did you edit out the facts on the CGC Page, if not?

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:World of Krynn module cover.jpg
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Image:Farscape_season_1_episode_7.jpg
I have tagged Image:Farscape_season_1_episode_7.jpg as orphaned fairuse. In order for the image to be kept at Wikipedia, it must be included in at least one article. If this image is being used as a link target instead of displayed inline, please add article name to the image description page to prevent it being accidentally marked as orphaned again. —  pd_THOR  undefined | 21:24, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

"Manga" article was quick-failed as GA
Not surprised at that. But, are you up for giving me a hand fixing up the sections identified as problematic? These are the "International Influence" sections -- which, if you remember, were always a problem. Take a look at my comments on the manga talk page and see if we can do something about this.

Leave a note here or on the Manga talk page about it if you're up for this.

Timothy Perper (talk) 20:45, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Sounds good. I have tomorrow and the next day off, I'll comment then or tonight when I get off. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 21:29, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Great. I just googled "Manga" + "International Influence" and got LOTS AND LOTS of sites! They're all copies of the Wiki article! But, heh-heh, I do have some references we can use.


 * I also made a Timothy Perper/SandboxInternational page, where I'm going to put some ideas.


 * Timothy Perper (talk) 21:51, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * We have our first quote: "Japanese comics have gripped the global imagination." From http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/magazine/15-11/ff_manga on the first page, 3rd paragraph. Now for some yearly sales figures? Timothy Perper (talk) 22:25, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I put up a first draft, with lots of stuff omitted, on user:Timothy Perper/SandboxInternational. Much of it I have references for, and will add them in the next couple of days. The stuff I don't have refs for are mostly the statistics -- sales figures and so on. If you feel like filling in, it'd be a big help. Timothy Perper (talk) 15:33, 10 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I hope you're still willing to help with this -- I sure need some help digging up refs! I'm adding the refs I have, but more would be useful, and you're an expert at it. Timothy Perper (talk) 14:52, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm going to work a bit on it now. I'll look for some sales figures to start. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 17:48, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks. KyuuA4 posted some websites to the manga talk page. I'm referencing the new section. Timothy Perper (talk) 18:12, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject College football December 2007 Newsletter
The December 2007 issue of the College football WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 02:22, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Back in Black sample
I noticed you uploaded http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Back_in_Black_by_AC_DC.ogg, claiming "No other samples from the same track are used in Wikipedia.", however, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ACDC_-_Back_In_Black-sample.ogg is the same track. Just bringing it to your attention, I don't know what to do about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaldosh (talk • contribs) 10:28, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Whichever is a better sample should be used in both of the pages and the other will be automatically deleted as an orphan. The fair use rational should be copied ferom the unused one to the used one as well, there need to be links for each page it's used on. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 18:59, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

A favor?
Can you try to locate some sources for two pieces of information?

1. How many manga titles are currently in print or are currently available commercially in the US? Ideally, only Japanese titles, not OEL nor Korean. I estimated the number by counting the titles on the Anime Castle website, and got 1680 -- meaning between 1500 and 2000.

2. How many volumes are currently in print or are currently available? That includes multi-volume series for question #1.

Thanks!

Timothy Perper (talk) 05:32, 14 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I think counting is going to be OR. You might be able to say "Anime Castle lists at least XXX."  It depends on the GA and FA reviewers whether they'd accept that.  I'm having trouble finding exact numbers, but I added a couple of refs that may be usefull to the ref section.This may say something good, but I can't get the whole text.  A google snippet of it says "Many manga publishers in the United States have increased the number of titles. and some of them have almost doubled their production in recent years to ..." - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 17:28, 14 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it's the OR thing that I'm concerned about. The Springer reference is from 2004, which is much too early for our purposes; it should be 2007. The actual count was N = 1680 titles on Anime Castle. I can confirm that by going into Anime News Network and adding up individual publishers, but I ain't doing that yet (it's a LOT of work), not until we can't find something else. Timothy Perper (talk) 19:36, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

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Orphaned non-free media (Image:Eureka season 1 episode 11.jpg)
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Orphaned non-free media (Image:Eureka season 1 episode 5.jpg)
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Orphaned non-free media (Image:Eureka season 1 episode 6.jpg)
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Orphaned non-free media (Image:Eureka season 1 episode 7.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Eureka season 1 episode 7.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Orphaned non-free media (Image:Eureka season 1 episode 8.jpg)
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Orphaned non-free media (Image:Eureka season 1 episode 9.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Eureka season 1 episode 9.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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New International Manga Section almost done
I have only one more section to add (about Asian Markets) and then it will be ready to put in. Can you take a look at it and make suggestions/comments? I haven't stinted on the references, if only because we need them, but suggestions there would be welcome also. I know (sigh) that the other folks on the manga discussion page will wring their hands about the length, but I don't see any choice. Most of the length comes from the references, not the text, and we need them. Most of the time I've spent on this has been putting in the references. Timothy Perper (talk) 23:05, 16 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I have time tomorrow afternoon, and I'll look at it thouroughly then. I'll look at it now so you have some quick feedback. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 06:17, 17 December 2007 (UTC)


 * New note on the SandboxInternational page -- it's about ready to go. Timothy Perper (talk) 14:29, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Gekiga revision
I started this a while back, and it's short, so I decided to finish it up. The new text is at User:Timothy Perper/SandboxGekiga and I've indexed it too. Come and look when you get a chance. Timothy Perper (talk) 20:04, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

International Section is Now In
I just pasted it in and it worked. Wow. Sigh -- what a relief. And thanks again! Timothy Perper (talk) 17:10, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:A Christmas Carol (1971 film).jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:A Christmas Carol (1971 film).jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Restored missing references
It only took 4.5 hours, but I restored the merged and lost references, and left a note on the manga talk page asking people not to merge or delete refs without discussion. I checked the restored refs against my back up copy, and they seem OK. Timothy Perper (talk) 18:11, 22 December 2007 (UTC)


 * You could have just reverted. I havent' checked out the edit, maybe you did something more.  Do you know how to go back in the history and get the version that you want? - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 18:15, 22 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Glad you mentioned that. Reverting was the first thing I thought about, but it wouldn't have worked. The reason is that Farix made a significant number of other, quite acceptable changes throughout the article. Those I want to keep, while restoring only some of his changes (that is, the merging of references). If the merges and consequent losses had been concentrated in only one place, I might have been able to "revert" only that section, but in fact the merges were scattered throughout the second half of the article. I also made some other edits as I went along (fixing typos and whatnot). So it took some digging to find the missing op. cit. references and restore them. Yes, I've used the history pages to find prior versions. Anyway, as is well that ends well. I hope. Timothy Perper (talk) 20:13, 22 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm glad it worked out for the betterment of the article. What are op cit refs? - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 00:18, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

OK, first, "op. cit." is Latin for "opus citandum," = "in the work cited." Thus,

Schodt, 1986, op. cit., pp. 71-74

means you find Schodt 1986 in the bibliography and look on pp. 71-74 for whatever it is. It's a standard way in bibliographies to avoid repeating the entire Schodt 1986 reference every time you cite it.

Now, second, I had used a bunch of op. cit.'s in the references in the article as a way to insert the all-important page references. Previously, I had been inserting them into the text itself (which is not good bibliographic practice) but I hadn't realized I could write op. cit. refs. Note that each and every op. cit. ref is different -- each one has a different set of page numbers associated with it.

Next, third, Farix came along and merged all the op. cit. refs into the single Schodt 1986 reference, thereby removing all the page references. This is absolutely verboten in doing a bibliography because the Schodt ref itself does not have the individual pages being cited. It just gives the book name itself. So, by merging the op. cit.'s, Farix took out all the page refs to Schodt 1986.

Then, fourth, I put all the op. cit.'s back into the reference list, thus restoring all the missing pages. That took a long time to do, for reasons explained above.

Finally I posted a note on the manga talk page asking people not to do this merging thing again.

Hope it's clearer.

Timothy Perper (talk) 04:01, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Peer Review Comments of Manga Article
People have been putting comments into the Peer Review section at the top of the manga talk page. One person said pointedly that there's no section on shonen, and it should be there. So I started to work on that again, at User:Timothy Perper/Sandbox5. Come over and take a look; it's just the first draft, with some references, no formatting, and see if you think it's on the right track. Thanks! I also added a number of fixes to the article based on Peer Review cmts. Timothy Perper (talk) 18:06, 23 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Cool, I'll add it to my watchlist. Nice linking to the page. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 20:19, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Competition from Google
FYI. I just saw the current issue of the Wikipedia newsletter Signpost (12/17/07) -- it has an article that Google is starting up a web-based information source very much akin to Wikipedia. It reminded me of a conversation you and I had a while ago about the same subject... one of the commentators isn't worried, the other is. IMO, Wiki can't compete with a well-run true encyclopedia of the kind the Google folks seem to be planning. Timothy Perper (talk) 07:02, 24 December 2007 (UTC)


 * If google or whoever wants to run a free encyclopedia, it's fine. All of the controbutions are now, and will always be, free.  Wikipedia annoys me to no end frequently, so I'm not concerneded with who runs the whole deal.  The important part is that all the text is free in a way that can't be reverted, so whoever wants to host it can, but the text is still free.  The text of WP is copyrighted in such a way that it may end up on an ad supported web site, which doesn't effect its freeness.  It's kind of complicated, but regardless of which site hosts our material, people will always be free to use it however they want (including google or anyone else).
 * It's not as scary as it sounds, though. The thing google is doing is not collaborative, so it isn't really like WP.   - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 07:51, 24 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with *that*. Besides which, the more the merrier. Timothy Perper (talk) 09:15, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

improvement as College Football Editor
I've not been doing very good at article-improving lately, and I truly want to do better. Can you give me some pointers? Tech43 (talk) 18:24, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Tech43 (talk) 15:27, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Photo of Kyoto Museum added to manga page: need your opinion
Someone added a photo of the Kyoto Manga Museum to the manga page. The photo shows some buildings. We need your opinion about the picture on the talk page about it. Happy holidays! Timothy Perper (talk) 01:50, 25 December 2007 (UTC)