User talk:PerfectSoundWhatever/Archives/2022/September

The Signpost: 31 August 2022
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Invitation
Hi ,

You have been invited, along with the other participants in Wikiproject Vital Articles, to start editing the Technology page and add references. Our goal is, by September 3rd, to have the article at least to B-class, but what would be generally preferable is to improve this article to the extent that it gets to GA-status. I may post a notice to the community bulletin board, but it is not definite. I hope to see the Technology article improved! 𝙷𝚎𝚕𝚕𝚘𝚑𝚎𝚊𝚛𝚝  ⋅𝚃𝚊𝚕𝚔⋅ 02:43, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Invitation

To request my attention, find my talk page and I will respond within 24 hours. 𝙷𝚎𝚕𝚕𝚘𝚑𝚎𝚊𝚛𝚝  ⋅𝚃𝚊𝚕𝚔⋅ 02:43, 2 September 2022 (UTC)


 * What happened to Coffee and Land through the WikiProject Vital Articles/Vital GA Drive? This seems undiscussed. 3 days is quite ambitious for B, as well. — PerfectSoundWhatever  (t; c) 02:47, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I think we can do both of them. Technology is almost a B-class article (according to Wikiproject Technology.) All we need id references. (Also it might be too late to turn back because I've already messaged half of the participants in Wikiproject vital articles.) Though it might be a good idea to put the Vital GA Drive also on the community bulletin board. I might do that. 𝙷𝚎𝚕𝚕𝚘𝚑𝚎𝚊𝚛𝚝  ⋅𝚃𝚊𝚕𝚔⋅ 02:51, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't think you should announce things without at least starting a discussion on the talk first. Writing a Vital GA that will actually pass is much more than adding just a bit of references (a common belief I've seen is that articles get exponentially higher to promote the higher Vital level; Technology is a V1). Not saying it can't be done, but I would rather work on Coffee and Land in the long term. Baby steps. — PerfectSoundWhatever  (t; c) 02:56, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay, how about this. I won't send any more invitations (just to be on the safe side) and maybe add a follow-up invitation to work on Coffee and Land? What would you say would work? 𝙷𝚎𝚕𝚕𝚘𝚑𝚎𝚊𝚛𝚝  ⋅𝚃𝚊𝚕𝚔⋅ 03:04, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Vital GA Drive
The first ever Vital GA Drive by the WikiProject Vital Articles has begun. The drive aims to improve Coffee and Land to good article status within 45 days, from 1 September to 15 October 2022. The Vital GA Drive is WikiProject Vital Articles's first step at achieving its ambitious goal: all Vital articles achieving good article status by 2032.

You've received this message because your name is on WikiProject Vital Articles and WikiProject Vital Articles/30 kB drive. If your name only appear at the 30 kB drive page, you won't receive any more future messages from the WikiProject. If you don't want to receive such messages anymore, you can remove the template at the project's member list. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:30, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Track listing styling
Per WP:ALBUMSTYLE, there are many ways to style a track listing and if there's an established one on a page, it shouldn't be changed without a compelling reason (i.e. consensus). Let me know if you have any questions or need any help. ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:59, 10 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Why did I receive this message? I'm aware of that section in WP:ALBUMSTYLE, and haven't changed a tracklisting between template and list formats recently, as far as I remember. I also partially disagree; yes, in cases where other editors disagree, consensus is essential, but we shouldn't wait to make every decision, (WP:BRD rocks) especially on pages infrequently edited. For example, the version of Don't Wake Me Up (album) before my edits is a barely-sourced stub and taking the article to GA was essentially writing a new article. I didn't change the track listing style since this wasn't necessary, but if I did, I shouldn't have to seek affirmation from other editors for a barely-edited stub. —  PerfectSoundWhatever  (t; c) 20:06, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh, I just got pinged at User talk:QuietHere, I now see why you notified me (edits at Untitled (Rise)). I agree I shouldn't have changed that, but that was almost 2 years ago, when I didn't really have an idea what I was doing. — PerfectSoundWhatever  (t; c) 20:08, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
 * You did on Untitled (Rise). ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:10, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry, the goal is to be more communicative and collaborative, but the process breaks down when I'm wrong on my facts. Thanks. ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:13, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Collab?
One of my long-term projects has been trying to get Ludwig Ahgren to for an eventual WP:DYK nomination. Would you be interested in potentially helping out? &#8211; MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 02:51, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

I can definitely take care of the lead and media if you want to take care of the copy/editing. If we get it to GA, then we'll be able to do a DYK which will be amazing. &#8211; MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 17:51, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi! I'd be willing to help out, thanks for asking, although I've only ever written GAs on albums, never a BLP. Do you have a particular to-do list: things to fix or to expand? Thanks. — PerfectSoundWhatever  (t; c) 00:27, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
 * [Thank you for the ping] Actually, it was pointed out to me that it might be easier to get Ludwig subathon to GA (which you have substantially written) than Ludwig Ahgren. Do you think that's more doable? &#8211; MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 04:14, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
 * It's definitely more doable. But the Wikipedia will benefit more with Ludwig Ahgren to a GA, since it gets many more pageviews and is in a worse shape. Why don't we try to promote both? — PerfectSoundWhatever  (t; c) 15:27, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I mean... it'd be much harder. If you think we can to do it, then I'll help however I can. It's just hard to find the right sources for it. &#8211; MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 04:30, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * (also let me know if you subscribed to this thread and need me to stop pinging) Let's do the subathon if you're apprehensive about Ahgren's page. I used basically every RS source I could find, and wrote stuff with a level of detail I thought wouldn't be considered WP:FANCRUFT. So, I actually think the article is quite close to GA, since there isn't much else to say about the stream that would make it fall criteria 3 (Broad in its coverage). Right now, I think the lead needs to be written out, the prose tightened up, add more media if possible. After that, a nomination will likely pass. — PerfectSoundWhatever  (t; c) 13:05, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * It's a shame the AfD happened a day after I made the page. I didn't bother nomming it for DYK since it could be deleted, but since it was nc kept, it would have made for some cool hooks. — PerfectSoundWhatever  (t; c) 13:07, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * You know, I always forget I can subscribe to threads now. Thank you! I'm subbed to this now.
 * I nominated the article for GAN after spending a few hours resolving the above issues and writing some prose. Please feel free to copyedit the article or see if I missed any issues. Sorry if you wanted to contribute to the GAN— I just thought no point in having 2 editors fix the issues when it was close anyways. Do you still want to bring Ludwig Ahgren to GA? Also, any ideas for DYK hooks (assuming the GAN passes)? (P.S. I now have more GANs [3] than I do passed GAs [2]. Feels wierd!) — PerfectSoundWhatever  (t; c) 17:58, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
 * So it's a bit awkward for me to explain this at this stage in the game, but my interest in seeing this get a DYK nomination is because I have a YouTube channel. I plan on releasing a video about the DYK/GAN process using the article an example and framing device ("How I got Ludwig on the front page of Wikipedia"). If you don't mind, I would really like to be involved with the GAN to better accomplish this purpose. Also, if you had 2 other GANs already pending, then you may have wanted to ask me to nominate since I have more reviews than GANs and don't have any other GAN pending lol &#8211; MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 03:28, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

No. That's not how GANs work. Why would you nominate it after doing no work on it? To publish a YouTube video entitled "How I got Ludwig on the front page of Wikipedia" if Ludwig's subathon reaches GA/DYK would be extremely disingenuous, since I am the sole author of the article, and I (would be) the reason it went to GA. It's not like I am preventing you from making that video, I've repeatedly said I can help you try to get Ludwig Ahgren to GA, but you seem to be motivated by the wrong things and want the path of least resistance.

Sorry if this comes off as harsh, but I dislike your motivations. The whole point we do GAs is to motivate editors to write well-written articles. This is why I initially suggested we should bring both the subathon and the biography to GA— this is the most beneficial to the 'pedia. But you seem to be trying to take credit for other authors contributions to get internet brownie points. No thank you. — PerfectSoundWhatever  (t; c) 17:33, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

I should not have to explain why it would be a massive hurdle to get Ludwig Ahgren to GA. I've been making edits to that article since February. Even if the sources were there for it to meet comprehensive coverage, it still could fail to meet GAC due to stability concerns. &#8211; MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 03:55, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I really don't think you understand what I meant. I don't take credit for the work of other people. Wikipedia is a collaborative project, and I personally despise it when people propagate the myth that it is anything but. Can I please rewrite the lead as I suggested I should do?
 * Sorry if I didn't assume good faith, but it's hard to interpret what you said in a positive manner. Of course I agree Wikipedia is a collaborative project. But the fundamental part of a collaborative project is the collaborating part. You haven't added any substantial content to Ludwig's subathon, which is why it doesn't make sense for you to be a co-nom for the GAN (which you appear to want solely for the video; seems to be using a "collaborative project" for a little bit of personal gain).
 * I do not own the subathon article, so of course, do whatever you'd like to that article. Personally, I do not perceive a Ludwig GAN "as a massive hurdle". I doubt it would fail the stability criteria. Short GAs for subjects with not a lot of sourcing pass all the time, (I recently passed one) so I think it can totally pass comprehensive coverage. Technoblade is a good reference YouTuber GA. Currently, I'm more interested in Album GAs than trying to pass YouTuber ones, so I will not pursue a Ludwig GA on my own at this time. — PerfectSoundWhatever  (t; c) 20:01, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

My video is about the GAN/DYK process. If you want me to send you the script, I can do that. Also, I understand I don't need your permission to edit the article, but I'm trying to be polite about this. You just nominated for GAN, so that implies you don't think any contribution would be useful at this time. &#8211; MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 23:21, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

I have a lot of ideas for the DYK, though. I'm planning on posting to WT:DYK to make sure the video can come out around when the DYK goes live (which would be really amazing!). &#8211; MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 03:52, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry if I was stating the obvious, and thank you for being polite. I was just trying not to be unwelcoming and appearing like I think I own the article. . I was under the impression your video was about documenting the GA/DYK process from your point of view ("How I got Ludwig on the front page of Wikipedia"). But if the video is about observing the GA process, then I've misunderstood, and I'm happy to do whatever you need for the video. As long as you don't claim you brought the article to GA if you weren't a major contributor. Hope you can understand where I'm coming from with all of this, and thanks for being patient. — PerfectSoundWhatever  (t; c) 00:51, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I would never claim that I did something I didn't do (a title is just meant to increase engagement). I just want to use this opportunity to its fullest potential by helping make people more aware of how Wikipedia actually works (and how they could do something similar).
 * Alright, sorry for the misunderstanding. Let me know if you need any help for the video. — PerfectSoundWhatever  (t; c) 22:57, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Coin Coin Chapter Three: River Run Thee
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Coin Coin Chapter Three: River Run Thee you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Shaidar cuebiyar -- Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 22:21, 19 September 2022 (UTC)