User talk:Peridon/Archives/2010/June

Joe Miller, Candidate for U.S. Senate
Not sure why you're wanting to delete Joe Miller's site. One of two candidates for the United States Senate isn't important enough for you? He's been endorsed by former and current legislators and the former Governor of Alaska.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Miller_(political_candidate) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pa1985 (talk • contribs) 03:43, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

...and curiouser
I have opened a sockpuppet investigation, Sockpuppet investigations/Basketnews, though there must be a backlog over at SPI as it has sat there all day w/o a clerk even listing it. Yworo (talk) 23:36, 3 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I figured I'd add any socks w/o recent activity as they popped up. If it has to go to checkuser, they'd be too stale to confirm unless they start editing. Yworo (talk) 00:03, 4 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Care to place any bets as to whether two new users, and, somehow wander over to !vote in the AfD if they escape being blocked for the mess they are making over at ? Yworo (talk) 04:37, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Joe Miller (political candidate)
Hi, I've removed the speedy template as the article does credibly assert the notability of the subject. Also, an AFD would probably be the more appropriate avenue seeing that the PROD template was removed. - Reconsider !  06:42, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Mubarak (problems with my page)
Hi, I have a problem with a page i created as its says that it doesnt meet the requirements for wikipedia and something about speedy deletion. If you can please help me because I am new on wikipeida editing and I cant find a way to resolve it. thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mubarak19 (talk • contribs) 08:52, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

BREN POWERS (problems with my page)
Hi, you have sent me a message saying that this page is up for speedy deletion. Bren Powers is a strength athlete who has many competitions under his belt, he is very well respected in the sport with a large following and this will be competing in the UK's strongest man competition. Please can you confirm why you want to delete this page when his competitors Mark Felix, Glenn Ross, Jimmy marku etc all have pages and these people compete in the same competitions. The content does however require "tidying up" and I would like to add a box on the right similar to that of his competitors including competition history etc etc, if you can help with that then it would be great. I await your reply, Many Thanks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bren_powers —Preceding unsigned comment added by Peter "Panda" Jones (talk • contribs) 09:01, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Wanna be a reviewer?
Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Pending_changes  --Yopienso (talk) 23:49, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

User:Prettyreyna
I somehow feel that they're not getting OUR message.... Peridon (talk) 20:23, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Seems like it; Blocked all three of them with talk page disabled to prevent more social networking. No content edits whatsoever, so not a great loss I'd say. Excirial ( Contact me, Contribs ) 20:32, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Greetings
Greetings Peridon - just came across yer great "non-profit prophet"! Can I use it or is it copyright? Cheers! --Technopat (talk) 21:39, 20 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't find it very funny :( especially since the topic is serious, but if you liked it, maybe you'll like "non-prophet profit", "Prophet margin" , "Tax on Oil Company Prophets" ...okay, I'd better stop - its too easy to get carried away. Glad to see you guys are having fun :)

Sincerely ChildrenOfLight (talk) 23:38, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

RfA
Thank you very much for your contribution to my Rfa. I have made a comment about it at User talk:JamesBWatson which you are, of course, very welcome to read if you wish to. JamesBWatson (talk) 14:30, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Ian McCormack
Peridon, I have responded to your request for deletion on the AFD page. I would appreciate some feedback. I may be new here but it seems a little impolite to propose someone's page be deleted and then not respond to changes they make in the article or points they make. If you could please be specific - "seems kind of promotional" doesn't do anyone any good - if there are examples you can provide of "promotional" verbage, etc, I would like to know so that I can address them. As far as I'm aware CBN and Sight Magazine are reliable independant sources (they're not affiliated with Ian in any way, nor are the other magazines or TV interviews). Thanks again

Sincerely ChildrenOfLight (talk) 18:47, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Peridon, first, thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. 3rd party independant sources do not have to be mainstream. Jerald F. Dirks (what, are people deleting these things now?) andRobert J. Fox as a few examples. As I understand 3rd party and Independent, the Christian Broadcasting Network is both to the subject of this article - they were not involved in his experience (3rd party) and they are in no way associated with his organization or church (independent) other than the fact that they are both share a common faith. How is this an issue in this case? Let's get to the bottom of what needs verifying here. As far as I can tell the only thing that needs to be varified in a situation such as this is that the person is really who he says he is (Ian McCormack) and that he is somebody of note with exposure. CBN, Sight Magazine, Revelation TV interview, etc verify that he isn't my next door neighbor or a ficticious person; The TV interviews, published book, Google search results on his name, YouTube presence, etc show that he is noteworthy by Wikipedia standards - probably not by Britanica :)). What else needs to be verified? The supernatural aspects of his story? No where does it say in the article that his story is true - it is simply his story that has made him popular. What needs to be varified? Again, that he isn't my nextdoor neighbor, someone I know, some fictitious person that I put up on Wikipedia. Ian's story is not on trial here. That he is who he says he is and who I've said he is, of course, is on trial and that is perfectly illustrated through my citations. All we need to know is that he isn't some fraud who has no popularity or coverage that I'm putting on Wikipedia and who you can't find if you Googled him - who's story you couldn't find if you Googled it. Religious articles on wikipedia that do not stray into politics don't deserve the kind of scrutiny that Pat Robertson has. He has said some very politically charged things that 3rd party, independant, secular, mainstream media has covered - is that the only way a notable Muslim, Buhdist, or Christian speaker can be accepted on Wikipedia by your standards? To say some nasty things about people so that CNN will tune in and then we all get a mainstream secular source for the article? I certainly hope not because it isn't very Wikipedian. Thanks again for the reply,

ChildrenOfLight (talk) 23:00, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Okay everybody, I deleted all references to medical certification of death and time period for death and doctors doing anything. I think it is now entirely in Ian's mind without reference to others. His story as it is doesn't need any sources other than himself (unless I've missed something) per Smith Wigglesworth "believed that God had cured him of hemorrhoids". All the other sources establish his notability and the fact that I'm not putting up my buddy or youth pastor or whatever and that this article isn't a prank. Let me know how you feel - I totally see Hekerui's point and maybe this is what you all have been saying all along. I think it reads a lot better and makes more "encyclopedic" sense. Thanks
 * Comment

ChildrenOfLight (talk) 01:19, 22 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Alright, Peridon, what is notable in your opinion? Explain to me why Ian McCormack isn't notable with all the references and links by Wikipedia standards.  What articles do you think ARE notable?  He certainly is more notable than Judith A. Ramaley.  I'm writing as I read, not as I think (ie I'm judging notability by what I like to see on Wikipedia - articles about movies, YouTube people with a strong presence, characters I come across on the web with a strong presence there, obscure Jedi warrior facts :),  Lord of the Rings character Bios, etc).  I wouldn't use Wikipedia to write an article about the Queen of England - its not safe for that - would you?  (It would be a good starting place to write an article on the Queen of England if the references and links are good).
 * I'm comvinced now, that what is happening here is entirely subjective at this point. People who would never even glance at anything remotely resembling a 'Near Death Experience' or never feel that arthritic spiritual/religious bone in their body are the ones arguing it isn't a notable article.  How many people need to see something or know about it before it becomes "notable"?  Hundreds of thousands (at least) of people in the US think CBN is noteworthy, but you obviously aren't one of them :).  You know there are thousands if not hundreds of thousands of examples on Wikipedia of Expanded Universe fame, whether they are comic book characters, comic book writers, illustraters, etc.  How many people know about them?  Are they notable to you?  Maybe to you and everyone you know, but certainly not to other people.  I'm okay with that - that is what makes Wikipedia different.  Are you against what Wikipedia IS?

Thanks for the comment (although it was kind of vague, and frustrating, and sabertooth, and...:)). Please be specific. ChildrenOfLight (talk) 15:47, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * There's a lot of articles that aren't currently referenced properly, or about notable subjects. They get found eventually - mostly... (There's about 13 million articles.....) Ramaley is the president of a university - so far as I can see, she meets WP:PROF. There isn't a Queen of England at present to write about - Liz II is Queen of the United Kingdom of England, Scotland and Northern Ireland. There already is an article about her - Elizabeth II. This is an encyclopaedia - things here should be verifiable in reliable sources. I prefer sources that don't have a religious or political bias - or suspicion of - and definitely ones that combine the two. I also don't like trade sites that base their 'reviews' on press releases. Am I against what Wikipedia is? Would I have made 8,400 edits if I was against it? I don't like rap, but I worked to save an threatened article on a particular rapper because I could see notability there (unlike in many other rappers). I don't see it here. Peridon (talk) 17:30, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Are you saying then that you are only interested in seeing articles with secular sources? Are you saying that someone who is notable within a religion or movement but hasn't done anything stupid or outlandish or a stunt to get secular publicity isn't notable?  Sounds to me like you're gearing up to remove all the religious articles that don't have secular sources.  That is very dangerous and is, in other words "censorship".  I am not promoting anything here, I am sharing an article on someone who has notability on Google, TV channels, YouTube, and within the Christian faith.
 * I don't agree with your belief that sites that have religious bias can't be sourced as reliable in this situation - we are not dealing with anything political in this post, nor are we "verifying" Ian's belief and proving it - it can't be proved - its his personal belief. Why do we need a secular source?  I am not writing an article on Pat Robertson who said some very hurtful things and earned some of your precious secular sources by hurting people and gaining notoriety.  As I've said so many times it now comes easily to my tongue, Ian's story is not on trial here (it was until I removed "certified dead by doctors"), the trial is whether he is a fraud who no one knows and has no web presence, figment of my imagination, someone I personally know, or sombody that has no Web presence.  Just because you've been an editor for some time doesn't mean you're objective.  Please provide me with the link to your rapper - I'd like to know what you find notable and how you subjectively determined it.  I'm glad to hear you don't suggest every article for deletion - I was worried there for a while :).  Remember, Ian's views are not on trial - what needs varifying at this point is simply that he exists and that he is notable by Wikipedia standards.  Thanks for your post and I appreciate your reply.  Thanks again ChildrenOfLight (talk) 20:00, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, you don't agree about the sources. Let's leave it to the consensus. As to the rapper, that was probably a couple of thousand edits ago and I can't remember his name. Can you remember what you had for tea on 27th May 2008? I just remember it being unusual for me to get involved with it, and that I seem to remember digging out some sources (and probably doing a copy-ed as well - I just itch when I see bad text).  I don't doubt Ian exists. What I'm trying to do is establish if there is notability. I am always prepared to change my mind - but by seeing evidence not by being hectored. Peridon (talk) 20:14, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually I can remember, it was Earl Grey tea (the only kind I drink in spring). Remember, you gave the example, so don't get ruffled about it.  I genuinly want to know how people who took the time to request my page be deleted are judging that it should be deleted and since I can't get at the bottom of it, I thought maybe if I look at stuff you've done, I can figure it out.  You took the time to suggest my article be deleted - it isn't very polite to then call my requests for more details as "hectoring".  I want to know what standards you use for "notability" since you have based your position on a vague concept that really comes down to subjectivity.  And the "consensus" is inately biased against anyone new here, so that isn't a very constructive way of going about it either.  I hope you're not upset that someone is trying to defend their article from deletion and is asking for rock solid reasons, wouldn't you?  Thanks for your reply and I hope you don't consider this "hectoring" - makes me wonder who Hector was to get it named after him :) ChildrenOfLight (talk) 20:42, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I actually meant the meal 'tea' but no worries. Peridon (talk) 20:49, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I'm compromising again :). I don't feel we need any more "secular" sources than the blurb I posted from a local "secular" paper, but just for those who want to see more...I've some "secular" blurbs about Ian - basically just telling the local community who he is and where he'll be speaking.
 * Comment

http://www.hawkesbaytoday.co.nz/local/news/man-who-died-to-give-talk/3656811/

http://www.gethampshire.co.uk/news/s/36122_what_happened_when_i_died_talk

http://www.westerntelegraph.co.uk/news/4212622.Death_survivor_to_give_talk_in_Manorbier/

It's just more verification that he exists. Should I add any of them? As far as further notability goes, I could add a ton of links to churches that have advertised his talks (but I feel that it is all secondary to what I have already posted). Thanks, ChildrenOfLight (talk) 22:44, 22 June 2010 (UTC)