User talk:Peter1292

Milton Keynes

 * Yes, I did read it. The legal position is that there are two counties for administrative purposes, there is one county for ceremonial purposes (the Liutenancy), and the geographic county still exists. Modern administrative boundaries come and go. Let me pose a theoretical question: suppose High Wycombe and south Bucks became a UA, so that Bucks had three administrations. Would Bucks cease to exist just because BCC had ceased? Where you have somewhere like Greater Manchester, attachment to the (heavily overlapped) original county boundaries is a bit sentimental but I don't think it applies here. But at the end of the day if you are not persuaded, we need to take it to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 14:05, 25 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Only if it was stated a whole new county was to be formed. 1996 the county of MK was formed, created a separate geographic county. A county and a UA are different. The county then became a UA, but continues to remain as a separate county which has a UA government. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Peter1292 (talk • contribs)
 * Yes, my speculative UA for South Bucks would be the same status as MK, so three legal counties, none called "Buckinghamshire". --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 14:29, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

A UA is NOT a county by default. If south bucks because a UA, it would remain in Bucks. The same as the 3 UAs of Beds are still in Bedfordshire. MK was a county and then a UA, hence different county. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Peter1292 (talk • contribs)
 * As I said, the same status as MK, otherwise the hypothetical model doesn't work. (I wonder if MK is exceptional, seeing as it became a legal county before UAs in general were introduced, but it is not a big metro area like Greater Manchester where a new county makes a lot more sense. Your ref to Beds would make it seem credible). --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 00:08, 26 August 2019 (UTC)


 * It's also worth reading Borough of Milton Keynes. I've reverted your addition of "ceremonially in Bucks" because although Buckinghamshire is indeed a ceremonial county, it is not usual language to say that a place is "ceremonially in" a county. The Mirror Cracked (talk) 14:50, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

So what county do you all claim that the "County of Milton Keynes" was in during 1996?

"8.—(1) Milton Keynes shall cease to form part of Buckinghamshire.

(2) A new county shall be constituted comprising the area of Milton Keynes and shall be named the county of Milton Keynes.

(3) Section 2(1) of the 1972 Act (which provides that every county shall have a council) shall not apply in relation to the county of Milton Keynes. "

As stated in https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1995/1769/article/8/made, Milton Keynes ceased being in Bucks in 1996. But it is clear you do not like this correct information. Lets ensure only the correct factual information is included, with supporting references (like the one I have provided) and not historic information that is preferred. After all, the cited reason was "Geographic Counties", which https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceremonial_counties_of_England demonstrates is an informal name for "ceremonial" counties only. --‎ user:Peter1292‎ 10:51, 26 August 2019

 --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 11:56, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Isn't this hypocritical? I provided cited information showing the county separation, but you removed it because you didn't agree with it. -- Peter1292
 * I am unaware of having removed any cited information.
 * I don't think that we are getting towards any agreement on this, so I am referring the case to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography to let uninvolved editors adjudicate. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 09:10, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
 * See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 09:19, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
 * In the meantime I have inserted "(ceremonial)" in front of Buckinghamshire. It is ugly but we are both at the point of being blocked for wp:edit warring so we need a holding compromise. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 09:32, 26 August 2019 (UTC)


 * The Borough of Milton Keynes is a unitary authority area, and therefore, like all unitary authority areas, is a non-metropolitan county, with a county council (which also serves as a district council). The Borough of Milton Keynes is not, as far as I am aware, a ceremonial county a.k.a. lieutenancy area. Unless someone can provide evidence to the contrary, the lord-lieutenant with responsibility for Milton Keynes is the Lord-Lieutenant of Buckinghamshire. It is established practice on Wikipedia to locate places in England via ceremonial counties as a higher priority than non-metropolitan counties (except in the context of local government). --  Dr Greg  talk 10:43, 26 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Slightly different for this instance, as MK was a county before it was a UA. MK is not and never has been (nor are there plans to change this) a ceremonial county. While I agree it makes sense to state the ceremonial (or geographic if we're being informal) county, this should also be made clear of the type of county it is. Seeing as there are now so many different types of counties in the UK, which are often disputed, it makes sense to clarify the categorisation for all users, rather than muddle it.