User talk:Peter Kremer

Hi Peter,

Welcome to Wikipedia. 203.110.246.230 12:59, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Synagogue in Timbuktu???
I learn from your text that Mardochai entered Timbuktu on his status as dhimmi. According to Muslim law a person under this status must not establish a place of worship within a Muslim community. This would mean expulsion or even execution on the basis of the Muslim legal tradition. If Mardochai received his status from a Fulani prince (whose title was not Askia - you don't know much about West African history, I'm afraid) it was the caliph of Massina, and Ahmadu Ahmadu, the ruler of 1857, was a Muslim fundamentalist, who for example demanded the delivery or execution of the German traveler Heinrich Barth only three years previously. Ahmadu Ahmadu would never have permitted or tolerated the erection of a Jewish or Christian place of worship in a place with a long religious tradition such as Timbuktu. The picture of the alleged synagogue cannot date from the years before 1900 as Timbuktu was occupied by the French in 1894, and the building displays architectural features of the early 20th century. But even if the picture shows a house owned by Jewish traders, it is highly improbable that it was openly used as a place of worship, as this would aroused the opposition among Muslims, and the French authorities tried to avoid any provocation of the Muslim notables because they did not want to run the risk of provoking armed resistance against the colonial rule. I mean perhaps I am totally mistaken as far as my suspicions are concerned. Perhaps some reliable documents can be quoted in support of the present passage of this site. Peter Kremer 16:21, 7 June 2007 (UTC)


 * In terms of the Askia title placed for the Emir, that more than likely was an edit mistake. The whole point of Wikipedia is that anyone who has information can also edit. The article just like any article can be edited so you could have easily edited it. Besides I don't make any claim of being a master of West African history, but I do know Jewish history and Sephardic history.


 * The building shown was both Rabbi Serour's location of trade and a synagogue. Rabby Mordechai and his family were from Morocco. Many synagogues in Morocco were moved from one person's house to another every year. If you look in the book A Treasury of Sephardic Laws and Customs: The Ritual Practices of Syrian, Moroccan, Judeo-Spanish and Spanish and Portuguese Jews of North America by Herbert C. Dobrinsky, it describes how some Moroccan Jews, when they lived in Morocco, would host the synagogue in one of the rooms in their homes. All that was needed for a synagogue was 10 men and a Torah scroll. Back then most Middle Eastern and Moroccan Jews did not have to have Siddurim since they had the prayers memorized.


 * Not all synagogues were built into structures like they are now to look like places of worship. For example, in Yemen synagogues were often built below ground in order to not draw attention from Muslims. Some synagogues in Yemen were simply rooms with a hole in the wall where the Torah Scroll was kept. If you look at the Yemenite Jews page at Yemenite_Jews there two pictures of Yemenite synagogues which were only small rooms.


 * Ismail Haidara, who is a Timbuktu Islamic scholar and descendant of some of the formerly Jewish Kati family, who wrote a book about the Jewish history Timbuktu has shown a number of people who have visited Timbuktu the location of the synagogue that used to exist there. It was not built to be a synagogue, it was a building that was used for more than one purpose. Also, the picture is some years after it ceased to be used by Rabbi Serour who left in the late in 1870's. If you like I can put "former" in the wording. Besides the Pact of Umar does not outlaw buying a building and using part of it as a synagogue, it is on new structures and some Islamic scholars such as Maulana Muhammad Ali argue that the pact of Umar had more than one version and could be challenged based on previous Koranic sources.


 * The synagogue in the picture was a place where a the Jews could do business, live, and have a minyan. By the way during that time, just as now, many synagogues were not public or open places. Synagogues for Jews from the outskirts, not in cities, were often places that did not look like religious structures. There were a number of hidden synagogues in North Africa that were underground in locations where Jews were hiding in mountain areas. Their purpose was simply to provide a place to pray. Even in Israel, there are people who have minyan's in apartments instead of official structures. In New York there are Sephardic synagogues that don't have titles on them and they look like brownstones as to not draw attention.


 * In terms of reliable sources, I have provided sources for the information about the minyan and the building. God's Will The Travels of Rabbi Mordochai Abi Serour, by Dr. Sanford H. Bederman, GSU Department of Geography Research Series, 1980 and Les Juifs à Tombouctou, or Jews of Timbuktu, Recueil de sources écrites relatives au commerce juif à Tombouctou au XIXe siècle, Editions Donniya, Bamako, 1999 by Professor Ismael Diadie Haidara. Both of these books are considered extremely reliable sources on the topic and both are cited in the article. You can read Prof. Ismael Diadie Haidara's book Les Juifs à Tombouctou on page 31 even makes mention of the  synagogue. Also, he stated the same in 3rd of 4th page of this article by the International Herald Tribune . Sheik Abdel Haidara stated the same in a recent speach at NYU concerning Timbuktu texts.


 * John Hunwicks's book Jews of a Saharan Oasis Elimination of the Tamantit Community (page 67) also accounts that when Mungo Park explored West Africa he was informed by an Arab of there being Jews in Timbuktu whose prayers sounded similar to the Moors (more than likely the Arab was describing Awlad al-Kuhin who were there during that time). This book also explains how some Jews got around the Dhimmi rules about building synagogues. All accounts of Rabbi Serour attest to the fact that he was extremely knowledgeable about Sharia and that is how he survived and often was able to get his way. Besides, his community only lasted less than a decade because some of his family members passed away.


 * Also, the article is not meant to be a history of West Africa. It is about the Jewish element that once existed in the area, as the sources attest. I have provided the sources for the information.--EhavEliyahu 23:25, 10 June 2007 (UTC)