User talk:Peterjharnik

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 * Hi Peterjharnik! We're so happy you wanted to play to learn, as a friendly and fun way to get into our community and mission.  I think these links might be helpful to you as you get started.
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-- 18:18, Friday, August 3, 2018 (UTC)

How to make references
Hello Peter, Please see User:EdJohnston/Referencing_example for a way to make two references show up in a reference list. Contact me if it is not clear how this works. I tried to help you get your offline material into User:Peterjharnik/Environmental Action (DC) (ideas for a draft) but when we did that, some of the references didn't show up properly. Hope this gets you started. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 20:27, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Your article draft
Hello Peter. I have looked over the material in User:Peterjharnik/Environmental Action (DC) (ideas for a draft) and still have some concerns:


 * The current title isn't in the usual form for a Wikipedia article title. Certainly it shouldn't end end with 'ideas for a draft'.


 * There isn't any obvious reason to replace the existing Environmental Action with something else.


 * The lead is still too promotional, in my opinion.


 * Large numbers of statements of fact in the article still don't have a reference.


 * The article is probably too long. One way to fix this and the preceding issue is to just omit the material that doesn't have a reference.


 * Can you find some references to show that the new Environmental Action took over the name of the original organization by agreement around 2012? That is, a statement in a newspaper, book or magazine which makes clear that that happened, and when it took place?

Thanks for your work, EdJohnston (talk) 21:12, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi, Ed. I've rewritten the lead paragraph. Let me know what you think.Parks&#38;Trails (talk) 11:10, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Ways to improve the draft lead
In your article draft you wrote: ""Environmental Action, one of the new breed of national ecology organizations to grow out of the Earth Day celebration in 1970, combined political activism and grassroots organizing with an experimental egalitarian staff structure. Because of this, it was considered among the most radical of the national ecology groups.[1] [2]""

Reference 1 is to a chapter by R.C.Mitchell et al. in the Dunlap & Mertig book. The wording of the source (page 14) is this: ""When did the conservation movement become the environmental movement? A convenient though necessarily arbitrary demarcation for the transition from one to the other is 1967, the founding year of the Environmental Defense Fund (EDF), the first of the new breed of national environmental organizations. Both EDF, whose origins stem from the battle to ban DDT, and the National Resources Defense Council (NRDC) were assisted by Ford Foundation grants...""

So if you want to describe Environmental Action as one of the 'new breed' defined by R.C.Mitchell you should credit that term to Mitchell as the author and stick with the 1967 date which he used for the 'transition'. You would also not be able to use Mitchell as a source for the claim that the 'new breed' grew out of the Earth Day celebration of 1970 since he uses 1967. Still, you might be able to use other material from Mitchell that could be used to situate Environmental Action within the movement. EdJohnston (talk) 16:33, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Peter, thanks for your recent edits of the draft. I see you got rid of the 'new breed' terminology, but now we have the language ''. The R.C.Mitchell chapter does not appear to support your claim that EA was perceived as more radical because it "combined political activism and grassroots organizing with an experimental egalitarian staff structure." If you want to use Mitchell as a source you should, in my opinion, stick more closely to what Mitchell actually says. There is nothing about an 'experimental egalitarian staff structure', though he does talk about "the 'new left' brand of environmentalism espoused by Environmental Action." Perhaps you could work that in somewhere.


 * Are you also using User:Parks&Trails as an account? You should not have two accounts at once. I recommend sticking with Peterjharnik unless you want to go through the account change process. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 16:30, 22 August 2018 (UTC)


 * How do I get rid of Parks&Trails?Parks&#38;Trails (talk) 03:35, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Welcome to The Wikipedia Adventure!

 * Hi Peterjharnik! We're so happy you wanted to play to learn, as a friendly and fun way to get into our community and mission.  I think these links might be helpful to you as you get started.
 * The Wikipedia Adventure Start Page
 * The Wikipedia Adventure Lounge
 * The Teahouse new editor help space
 * Wikipedia Help pages

-- 03:39, Monday, September 3, 2018 (UTC)

Saw your post
Hello Peter. This is just to confirm that I can see your responses when you post here. If you want, you can write another answer below my words here. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 04:07, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
 * But how can I get rid of parks&trails which I believe is my "other handle" (or alias?)Peterjharnik (talk) 04:46, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Just don't log in to that account again. Keep on using this one. If you find yourself in the wrong account, use the 'Log out' button at the upper right corner of this page and then log back in to the correct one. EdJohnston (talk) 13:00, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

OK, got it. ThanksPeterjharnik (talk) 02:10, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Peter, please see the current version of Environmental Action where your new material has been incorporated. Another editor, User:Zackmann08, did some further edits to be sure everything follows the usual Wikipedia style. If you want to make any further additions, make them directly at Environmental Action and not in the draft. Once again, thanks for your work. EdJohnston (talk) 17:18, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
 * just as an FYI, I actually know this user in real life. We've had some communication offline. I was very careful not to break any policies!! This is a case of a family friend who doesn't have much experience with Wikipedia. They did the bulk of the writing and research. I just helped wikify it. If you feel I've done anything improper here, please let me know but I was careful to follow policy. -- Zack mann  (Talk to me/What I been doing) 17:22, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
 * It's a small world. Peter and I have exchanged mail and even met in person. I'm assuming that a person with as many edits as you must know our article standards! In terms of further improvements, my thinking is that Gaylord Nelson should get some credit, since the founders of Environmental Action apparently got their start as members of his staff. See a web site devoted to this connection, and I believe Adam Rome's book (cited as ref. 13) provides a RS for this. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 17:47, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

No, it is not correct that Environmental Action staffers began in Gaylord Nelson's office. You are mixing up Earth Day (which has its own Wikipedia entry) with Environmental Action, which began immediately after Earth Day. (And even the Earth Day staffers were never in Gaylord Nelson's office). -- Peter Harnik, 10/26/18