User talk:Peterturnley

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If you have a close connection to some of the people, places or things you have written about, you may have a conflict of interest. In keeping with Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy, edits where there is a conflict of interest, or where such a conflict might reasonably be inferred from the tone of the edit and the proximity of the editor to the subject, are strongly discouraged. If you have a conflict of interest, you should avoid or exercise great caution when:
 * 1) editing or creating articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with;
 * 2) participating in deletion discussions about articles related to your organization or its competitors; and
 * 3) linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see Spam).

Please familiarize yourself with relevant policies and guidelines, especially those pertaining to neutral point of view, verifiability of information, and autobiographies.

For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have conflict of interest, please see our frequently asked questions for organizations. For more details about what, exactly, constitutes a conflict of interest, please see our conflict of interest guidelines. TheMindsEye (talk) 01:22, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Hello again
Hello again: I suppose you lost the piece of paper on which you scribbled the password for "Pturnley". Your edits are good, and they suggest to me that you've read, digested and at least to some extent agree with what I wrote here. But if by chance you didn't see that, please take a look.

One point: there are a lot of names of eminent photographers in the article. The more there are, the less necessary any of them seems, unless qualified with some additional detail. In a review of one of his early exhibitions, John Berger pointed out affinities with Izis and Ronis,[source] whereas Turnley himself reveres Boubat and Doisneau among the photographers of Paris.[source] In the preface to his book XYZ, he praises the patience and degree of involvement of Koudelka and Luskačová; and among American photographers he reveres Riis and Hine.[source] (I'd rush to agree that all this sourcery is a real pain in the rear for the exhausted writer, but it's needed all the same.) -- Hoary (talk) 02:15, 4 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Is it possible at this point to remove the paragraph above the article that says-This article or section is an autobiography, or has been extensively edited by the subject or an institution related to the subject, and may not conform to Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy. Please see the relevant discussion on the talk page.? I would be grateful for that.Peterturnley (talk) 02:29, 4 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, the tag can go when editors, other than yourself, are satisfied that the point of view and conflicts of interest problems in the article have been rectified. In the meanwhile, since you have chosen a user name that is identical to the subject of the article, please tell us what your affiliation is with the subject and, if you are not the subject, why we should not assume a COI is present.  TheMindsEye (talk) 03:39, 4 September 2009 (UTC)


 * What Eye says is true. But in addition to that: The article is improving. If it continues to improve at this rate, then in a few days the warning template can go. And when it does go, don't worry, it won't be replaced by another saying that the article previously was an autobiography; it will go completely. So forget about the template, and instead please work on making the article better; the template will then take care of itself.


 * Oh, and the WP article Robert Doisneau is (like most articles on photographers) inadequate and a mess. (The fact that the lists within it are in reverse chronological order is just one problem.) If you ever have energy to spare on that article, your input there would be welcome. -- Hoary (talk) 07:06, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your continuing good work. But look, anyone can add the "" and "" around names and so forth: it helps, but it's a minor issue. What's much more troublesome is this kind of thing:


 * Turnley worked with Newsweek until 2001, and his photographs have appeared on the cover of Newsweek Magazine 43 times. Starting in 2003, Peter Turnley began to collaborate with Harper’s Magazine producing eight page photo essays. He has produced ten essays for Harper’s to date.

Although changing "Newsweek Magazine" to "Newsweek" (etc) is trivial, for more worrisome is that these three sentences make assertions that aren't backed up here with evidence. We need a source independent of PT for each.

And that's just one, fairly humdrum passage within the article.

"But look, this is absurd! I'm Turnley and I know that it's correct! Are you calling me a liar?"

No, but TheMindsEye and I are calling the result an autobiography. Let's fix this, even if it means temporarily removing material that's factually correct but for which independent sources can't immediately be found. (If/when the sources can be found, it can be readded.)

The syntax for sourcing is:


 *  Here's an assertion. 

Yes, I know it's a pain. . ..

In the meantime, I've done some work on the article on Doisneau (which is still a mess, but sports an excellent photo of him). -- Hoary (talk) 00:26, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Removal of article tags
Welcome to Wikipedia. It might not have been your intention, but your recent edit removed maintenance templates from. When removing maintenance templates, please be sure to either resolve the problem that the template refers to, or give a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry, as your removal of this template has been reverted. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia, and if you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. TheMindsEye (talk) 03:35, 4 September 2009 (UTC)