User talk:Pethan

Vincent van Gogh
Hi, Nice to see you are tidying up the categories. I was tempted to make the same change myself a couple of days ago. However for our man Vincent, there is a problem because he is already in Category:Vincent van Gogh which is a subcategory of Category:Dutch painters. As such he should probably not be duplicated in either Category:Dutch painters or Category:Painters, but that doesn't quite look right. I don't have an answer, categories can be tricky, but I thought I would mention it. -- Solipsist 21:24, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the comment :)  You are right about Vincent, I will remove the Category Pethan 16:15, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)]


 * I have been going over this again. There is no such category as "Painters by nationality". Still I would like to make it possible for visitors of the Category:Dutch people to see all kinds of people, also painters. Under the Category:Painters it would be silly to see Picasso and not see Rembrandt. The best solution at the moment could be to use the Category:Dutch painters with all of them and the Category:Painters with the internationally famous (although this seems arbitrary) What do you think? Pethan 19:53, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)]


 * There is some general guidance on Categorization, that suggests that an article should go into the most specific category available and not be duplicated in any of the parent Categories. I guess part of the thinking here is that the views of items in Categories is likely to change and improve in the future. So that at the moment, although don't see any of the Category:Dutch painters in Category:Painters view, that might become a configurable option. -- Solipsist 17:32, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * In the meantime I have taken this one step further: I removed all Dutch painters from Category:Painters in the hope that the same will happen to the other nationalities.


 * Also I may have persuaded User:Spinster to put some the Dutch painters into Category:Flemish painters. Ultimately, I imagine we should subcategorise the Category:Italian painters and possibly some of the other nationalities if there are enough of them. -- Solipsist 17:52, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * Giuseppe Grisoni that was a tricky one.... -- Solipsist 19:39, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * You are really fast :) What to do with Belgian painters, like Ensor? Pethan 20:12, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * My guess is there are not enough of them at the moment, so probably best to lump the Belgians in with the French, Germans and British in Category:Painters unless you feel this would imply POV. -- Solipsist 21:59, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Picking up further discussion on categories at Category talk:Art -- Solipsist 20:48, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

sorting
I don't think there's an absolute rule to follow. It should be sorted under what English considers to be the last name, based on actual usage.

In this case, physics refers to "Van der Waals force", which is a strong indication that in English, the last name is considered to be "Van der Waals". In this case, the entire last name is sorted "as is".

In the case of "Antony van Leeuwenhoek", people talk about Leeuwenhoek microscopes or Leeuwenhoek's disease. But for Van der Waals, he is never referred to (in English) as just "Waals".

To take an analogy with German, there are many surnames with "von" but in many cases these are omitted when naming something after the person. For instance, "Joseph von Fraunhofer", but "Fraunhofer refractor" or "Fraunhofer diffraction". Thus, this is sorted undef "F". On the other hand, "John Von Neumann" is always "Von Neumann" and never just "Neumann", and therefore sorted under "V" ("Von Neumann architecture", not "Neumann architecture").

Similarly, in French, there are some names with "de" where the "de" is optional and can be dropped, such as "Pierre de Fermat" (sorted under "F"), and others where it cannot, such as "Charles de Gaulle" (sorted under "D").

It's on a case by case basis, based on actual usage, especially things named after the person ("Fermat's theorem" vs. "De Gaulle airport").

To take a completely different example, in Arabic "al Qaeda" and "al Jazeera" would undoubtedly be sorted under Q and J, but an English-speaking person would look for them under "A".

It's not reasonable to expect a user of an encyclopedia to be aware of the rules of each foreign language and sort names the way that that language would do so. It has to be based on actual usage in English, for an English-language encyclopedia, however illogical or inconsistent it might be.

-- Curps 16:46, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Winston Churchill
Good call on the categories for Winston Churchill. Don't be surprised if User:Pigsonthewing reverts your edit though. I've been having the same problem on Bill Oddie, as you can see on the talk pages. You might like to add to the discussion there. --

Daudelin and Ferron
I was curious why you chose to put Charles Daudelin and Marcelle Ferron into the category Canadian painters. Daudelin was far more famous for his sculpture than his painting, and Ferron for her stained glass. - Montr&eacute;alais 05:35, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * The reason I didn't complete the categorisation of these artists is that my aim in the last week has been to complete the national subcategories of the Category:Painters. My silent hope is that Users from these countries will then go through 'their painters' and complete the categorisation (other artistic genres and artistic period) as I will certainly do for the Dutch painters Pethan 06:44, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The Lowry family of engravers
I am glad to see you have been able to categorise Joseph Wilson Lowry. I have been trying to do the same for his father, Wilson Lowry, but cannot get the coding to work. Can you have a go, please and I will see how you did it!! Many thanks Apwoolrich 13:30, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * Good articles! Are there images to be found to accompany them? The categorising went well. Pethan 17:52, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Image copyrights
Hi Pethan, Nice job on adding images. But take care, I'm not sure that Image:Memling Shrine.jpg passes the photograph which just reproduces a painting test. So the copyright on the photograph could stand.

Some of the other images also contain the frame which would be risk.

I can't find Wikipedias policy on this point, but there is some better phrased information here -- Solipsist 19:32, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * Thank you Solipsist, for the compliment and the warnings. It would be such a pity if Image:Memling Shrine.jpg wouldn't be possible, because it's so beautiful. Should I remove it or just wait for the verdict? I will take care for those frames too. Pethan 19:44, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * I'll ask for further clarification on Wikipedia_talk:Image_use_policy/copyright -- Solipsist 20:17, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * Just found where I saw the original discussion on this -Copyright_issues and Copyright_issues - which you may want to check. -- Solipsist 07:13, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Art Categorisation (again)
Discussion moved to User talk:Solipsist -- Solipsist 10:44, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

American Sculptors
Hi, Pethan: i noticed that you hooked Rene PaulChambellan up with a United States Sculptors link. or something like that. if you are interested in doing more, my user page has a list of others, mostly sculptors, that I've written up. I don't think of these people as "Americans" as such, but if this is a way of catigorizing that makes sense to you, go for it. Carptrash 16:23, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Hi Carptrash: principally what I have done is categorising Sculptors in the same way as Painters and Architects, because it was a very long list (more than 130). Categorising by nation seems a logical step. What I would like to do most is find images, because with the arts a picture does say more than 1,000 words. The copyright problem stands in the way, I am afraid. I will surely take a look at your list Pethan 17:07, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Dutch municipalities
Hi Pethan, actually there was no need to tell me about those templates: I have the majority of the Dutch municipalities on my watch list, and your edits were really conspicuous. Good work!

About my project idea: it's not an official proposal as yet, so there's no reason you should have known about it, or followed the format. I'll probably move it out of my private userspace in a couple of days. Before I started that page, I looked around on the Dutch wikipedia, but couldn't find anything; now I've found nl:Wikipedia:Gemeente sjabloon, which looks good, and I'll certainly use some ideas from that page. If you have some ideas yourself about this project, don't hesitate to let me know; either on my talk page or on the project proposal at User:Eugene van der Pijll/WikiProject Dutch municipalities. Eugene van der Pijll 20:24, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * The redirection of villages to their municipalities wasn't actually my idea. I picked it up from User:Patrick. But it's a good idea anyway :-) Eugene van der Pijll 20:35, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Breda
Pethan, I've made a few changes to Breda which should clear up a few things. Henry V refers to Henry V, Holy Roman Emperor. Apart from being H.R.E., he also was the lord of Breda. Eugene van der Pijll 21:11, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * Good work! A few things keep bugging me. Henry: I think now that Henry of Brunesheim (1080-1125) was meant, that gives the reader more information than Henry V. Alix: shouldn't we use the more usual Adelheid? Philip: what is the informational value of her father? To make a somewhat radical departure from the original text I propose the following, but won't implement it until I have had comment from you:


 * "In the 11th century Breda was a direct fief of the Holy Roman Emperor, its earliest known lord being Henry of Brunesheim (1080 - 1125). In 1327 Breda was sold by Adelheid of Gaveren and her husband Gerhard of Rasseghem to John III, Duke of Brabant." And maybe Gerhard of Rasseghem can be dispensed with too? Pethan 07:52, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * You're right, Henry means Henry of Brunesheim. I made a mistake interpreting the article, and assumed that the link to Henry V was correct. The date of death of Henry V is also 1125, which confused both the original author and me, I presume. Alix (or Alice) is the English version of the German/Dutch name Adelheid. I don't know how common this translation is nowadays, and I can live with both versions. Your new text is OK with me. Eugene van der Pijll 09:11, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Terneuzen
I liked Houten, and I changed Terneuzen in the same way. I've added 1 thing to the infobox: land surface area. That is useful in cases like Medemblik. Also population density is now calculated on basis of land area. If we're both happy with this format, it might be time for me to rewrite the project page and to make it "official". Eugene van der Pijll 18:11, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Hi Pethan, take a look at (the source code of) Maarssen. I defined a template for the infobox (see Template:Infobox Dutch municipality). I think it is easier to create the infoboxes this way; it's prettier in the edit window; and it's certainly easier if we want to change the format a bit. Eugene van der Pijll 23:05, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * The Stede Broec problem has been solved. The template now looks for an image called "LocatieStede_Broec.png", with an underscore. This means you have to rename the map before you upload it to the English wikipedia. I couldn't find any other way to get it working, unfortunately.
 * It is not possible to calculate the density automatically, I'm afraid. Eugene van der Pijll 17:04, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * The file name in the template is based on the name of the page, not on the name of the municipality. This is for technical reasons. So the image for Soest, Netherlands has to be named LocatieSoest,_Netherlands.png, and the image for Wijk bij Duurstede should be at LocatieWijk_bij_Duurstede.png . I've uploaded these images in the right places. Eugene van der Pijll 16:43, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Dutch categories
In response to your comment


 * Hi Aecis
 * and I have noticed that you have been categorising Dutch cities. I applaud the effort,
 * but IMO this category should be under Category:Geography of the Netherlands.
 * It happens there already was the Category:Cities in the Netherlands there.
 * How should we solve this? Pethan 17:16, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I think the best option would be to move the articles in Cities of the Netherlands to Dutch cities, since Dutch cities contains more articles than Cities of the Netherlands, which would make moving the articles easier. Cities of the Netherlands could then be deleted. I think Dutch topography is different from Dutch geography, and therefore deserving of a category of its own. Aecis 17:21, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Part 2

You said:
 * I agree with moving the cities to your new category, but I really think that cities should be under the same
 * subcategory of Category:Netherlands where provinces, municipalities, rivers etc. are to be found.
 * So I would like to suggest to moving Category:Dutch cities to Category:Geography of the Netherlands.
 * Could you agree? Pethan 17:59, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)

My answer is short but simple: yes, I can agree with it :) Aecis 19:11, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Categories
Hi Pethan,

I just noticed that you have removed you to-do lists on Category:Engravers and Category:Painters &mdash; does this mean that you have got many of the arts categories sorted out? -- Solipsist 20:14, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Hi Solipsist, Nice you noticed :) I have been very busy with Dutch municipalities lately. About Art Categories: no, there is a lot of cleaning up to be done. But yes, I know what basic schema Í would use (you can see a beginning in Category:Architecture). But I am afraid to go through with it. Categories are a heated subject, as I just noted also on the Dutch Wikipedia. I would like to spend many happy hours here without antagonisms Pethan 20:32, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Wikiproject Dutch municipalities
Hi Pethan, I just wanted to tell you the Wikiproject has gone official. Eugene van der Pijll 23:31, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Feel free to edit the project page yourself, if you have any good ideas! You don't need my permission to change it, we're all equal here. I've changed the wording of the suggested introduction a bit. I don't know about linking to town, city, etc. but if you want to, that's fine. Eugene van der Pijll 19:48, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Alfred van Cock
Alfred van Cock: can you verify? Mikkalai 17:28, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Italian Architects
I have just added two more to the above page Scamozzi and Longhena, however they have gone in alphabetically under their christian names, do you know how to fix it? - Sorry Giano 15:47, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Category:Vincent van Gogh
I just saw that you had blanked this a couple months ago, without comment, and without replacing it with any structure to group together the main Vincent van Gogh article, the articles on his paintings, and his eponymous museum in Amsterdam. I can't say that the category was absolutely the best solution, but I still can't think of anything better. What was your reasoning? Postdlf 03:44, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * What I remeber of it: it was a category with just two articles and not much hope of receiving more. And van Gogh was the only painter handled this way. Pethan 12:01, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * That's reason to expand the treatment to other painters, not to blank this one. And you didn't think that there would be more articles on van Gogh paintings?  Postdlf 15:22, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I think Pethan's decision was a good one at the time. Many of the artistic categories were a complete hodge-podge in July/Aug. I remember thinking the van Gogh category looked out of place of over zealous. Since then Pethan and others have done a lot of work rationalising the artistic categories and spliting them into country based sub cats. It may be that there is a case for reinstating a van Gogh category now, along with similar cats for some other major artists, but even then I'm not sure the category should be Category:Vincent van Gogh but rather Category:Work of Vincent van Gogh or some other sort of parallel category. Either way I would recommend opening it up for more general discussion. -- Solipsist 16:41, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Article Licensing
Hi, I've started a drive to get users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) v1.0 and v2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Wikipedia's license, the GFDL, but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles. Since you are among the top 1000 Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information:
 * Multi-Licensing FAQ - Lots of questions answered
 * Multi-Licensing Guide
 * Free the Rambot Articles Project

To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the " " template into their user page, but there are other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:


 * Option 1
 * I agree to multi-license all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:

OR
 * Option 2
 * I agree to multi-license all my contributions to any U.S. state, county, or city article as described below:

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace " " with "  ". If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know what you think at my talk page. It's important to know either way so no one keeps asking. – Ram-Man (comment) (talk)  14:44, Dec 9, 2004 (UTC)

Unverified images
Hi! Thanks for uploading the following images:

I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know its copyright status? (You can use if you release it under the GNU Free Documentation License,  if you claim fair use, etc.) If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know at my talk page where you got the images and I'll tag them for you. Thanks so much. [[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk, automation script)]] 22:20, Dec 10, 2004 (UTC)
 * Image:Isaac_van_Ostade_Winter_Scene.jpg
 * Image:Isenbrant_Egypt.jpg
 * Image:Duccio Maestà.jpg

P.S. You can help tag other images at User:Yann/Untagged_Images. Thanks again.

Also, don't forget Image:Accama Anna van Hannover.jpg --Ricky81682 (talk) 08:31, Dec 18, 2004 (UTC)


 * I really don't understand this. I have mentioned the source and the pictures are hundreds of years old. What more do you want?Pethan 10:30, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * First of all, I apologize. If you look at the image copyright tags page, you'll see that art is based on the number of years that have passed since the artist's death.  It is completely my fault, as I should have noted the author's name and (following the link on the page itself) realized that he died in 1756 and tagged it appropriately.  Fortunately for me, Evil Monkey has already done so.  Sorry again. --Ricky81682 (talk) 07:45, Dec 27, 2004 (UTC)

lots of edits, not an admin
Hi - I made a list of users who've been around long enough to have made lots of edits but aren't admins. If you're at all interested in becoming an admin, can you please add an '*' immediately before your name in this list? I've suggested folks nominating someone might want to puruse this list, although there is certainly no guarantee anyone will ever look at it. Thanks. -- Rick Block (talk) 14:36, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

William-Adolphe Bouguereau gallery
You have in the past edited William-Adolphe Bouguereau. A related article, the William-Adolphe Bouguereau gallery has been nominated for deletion for violating WP:NOT (AfD here). A proposal to modify WP:NOT is here. Please join either or both conversations and comment as you see fit. Dsmdgold 16:56, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Please check your WP:NA entry
Greetings, editor! Your name appears on List of non-admins with high edit counts. If you have not done so lately, please take a look at that page and check your listing to be sure that following the particulars are correct: Thank you, and have a wiki wiki day! BD2412 T 03:27, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) If you are an admin, please remove your name from the list.
 * 2) If you are currently interested in being considered for adminship, please be sure your name is in bold; if you are opposed to being considered for adminship, please cross out your name (but do not delete it, as it will automatically be re-added in the next page update).
 * 3) Please check to see if you are in the right category for classification by number of edits.

Image copyright problem with Image:Primaticcio_Holy_Family.jpg
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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. If you have questions about copyright tagging of images, post on Wikipedia talk:Image copyright tags or User talk:Carnildo/images. 06:30, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Uitspraak Gemeentenamen
Dag Pethan, ik zag dat je bezig houdt met het WikiProject Dutch municipalities. Vandaar dacht ik dat dit je misschien wel zou interesseren: nl:Gebruiker:Quichot heeft onlangs alle Nederlandse gemeentenamen ingesproken. Ik ben nu samen met hem bezig om ze op nl.wikipedia in de gemeenteartikelen te zetten, misschien is dat ook wat voor jullie project? De bestanden zijn te vinden via Commons op commons:Pronunciation of Dutch municipality names. Groet, NielsF Talk to me.. 01:05, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Image:Memling Shrine.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Memling Shrine.jpg. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:


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 * 2) On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

Alternatively, you can also choose to replace the fair use image by finding a freely licensed image of its subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or a similar) image under a free license, or by taking a picture of it yourself.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our fair use criteria. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on [ this link]. Note that any fair use images which are replaceable by free-licensed alternatives will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. —Angr 18:32, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Wroclaw University Press - Sorghum durra - copyright enquiry
Wroclaw University Press is going to publish a book by doctor Gosciwit Malinowski from the Institute of Classical Philology and Ancient Culture of the Wroclaw University entitled Agatarchides z Knidos (Agatharchides of Cnidus). In the book we would like to reproduce your image of Sorghum durra (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/Sorghum_durra01.jpg/200px-Sorghum_durra01.jpg).

We would like to ask you to grant us a one-time reproduction premission to use the image in our book as a small illustration. I decided to contact you personally to make sure that we can use the photo without problems.

Please let me know if you need any additional information.

Thank you in advance.

Best regards,

Maria Gasieniec

Wydawnictwo Uniwersytetu Wroclawskiego Sp. z o.o. pl. Uniwersytecki 15 50-137 Wroclaw/ Poland tel.: 0048 71 375 24 74 fax: 0048 71 375 27 35 e-mail: licencje@wuwr.com.pl —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 156.17.87.250 (talk) 08:49, 9 January 2007 (UTC).

Orphaned non-free image (Image:LocatieWijkBijDuurstede.png)
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NowCommons: Image:Adrian van de Velde Scheveningen.jpg
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NowCommons: Image:LocatieLoon op Zand.png
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 * Image:LocatieHummelo en Keppel.png is now available as Commons:Image:LocatieHummeloEnKeppel.png. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 23:21, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Image:LocatieHengelo, Gelderland.png is now available as Commons:Image:LocatieHengeloGl.png. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 23:21, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Image tagging for File:LocatieGaasterlân-Sleat 1.png
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Victorian Architecture--Kudpung (talk) 01:22, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Hi ! An article you have been concerned with has many  issues and urgently needs improving. If you can help with these issues please see Talk:Victorian architecture, address the different points if you  can, and leave any  comments there.--Kudpung (talk) 01:22, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Notification: changes to "Mark my edits as minor by default" preference
Hello there. This is an automated message to tell you about the gradual phasing out of the preference entitled "Mark all edits minor by default", which you currently have (or very recently had) enabled.

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WikiProject
I noticed you are listed as a member in WikiProject_Dutch_municipalities. This project is listed as inactive now, I might perform some of the steps adviced in INACTIVEWP, including tagging it as semi-active. I will not have a lot of time to spend on this, so please join me on the project talk page if you have any interest in reactivating the project. CRwikiCA (talk) 21:30, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
Hi, You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:14, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Category:Flemish painters has been nominated for renaming
Category:Flemish painters has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:23, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:Pisanello princess.jpg


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Proposed deletion of File:Jan vanScorel Baptism.jpg


The file File:Jan vanScorel Baptism.jpg has been proposed for deletion&#32;because of the following concern: "Unused, low-quality, superseded by File:Jan van Scorel - The Baptism of Christ - WGA21079.jpg."

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. --Minorax &laquo;&brvbar;talk&brvbar;&raquo; 09:43, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Category:Dutch stadtholders has been nominated for renaming
Category:Dutch stadtholders has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 10:39, 8 August 2023 (UTC)