User talk:Phaedrus86/Archive 01

Wikipedia needs you
Hi,. You have helped with a number of articles in the past, but you haven't edited any articles in a while. Could you make some new contributions soon to help make Wikipedia better? I hope you decide to become a more active contributor again. Feel free to drop me a line on my talk page. -- ForteTuba 05:17, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Check out your watchlist or your prior contributions to help you find articles that need work.


 * Re your talk note on my page, good luck getting unbusy. I've been there myself. :) -- ForteTuba 14:10, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Maatsuykyer
Hey good to see you are working on that. My copy of white was my main ref while all my stuff is in storage! I used to live on the west coast a very long time ago - good to see some southern stuff being worked on! SatuSuro 13:58, 9 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Was back in Tassie two weeks ago, got my copy of Brothers, I would like to list the lat long for all named items - what do you think, as a separate list, as a list at bottom of page/art?
 * Would appreciate your ideas. SatuSuro 03:09, 9 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi SatuSuro, nice to see your additions. With the lat/long, that sounds a good idea, why not. What do you think of killing a few birds with one large stone: rename the existing clumsy Location and Composition to Geography (I have already done this), then reorganise the names a bit so we have a section describing how White and Brothers describe several of the islets/rocks, then have a section with a table listing all the known objects with their latitude and longitude. The way I see it, Named Islands would be an overview, and the Positions would be the full combined list, so there is only one list, not two or several. It would then look like this:


 * Geography
 * Main group
 * Maatsuyker Island is.....
 * Named Islands
 * White [1] and Brothers [2] named several islands in the group, including ...
 * Positions
 * Table of islands and latitude/longitude. Use a table so it gets laid out neatly


 * What do you think? Phaedrus86 04:37, 9 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Looks Good - sorry if I'm a bit delayed in responding SatuSuro 13:20, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * No problem - I saw you were a bit busy fighting vandals off Tasmania :-). I'll go ahead with that change sometime soon. Phaedrus86 13:58, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Not really, I try to enlist my admin friends, I think they can see more :)  Goood to see your refs in, that means we should try for, da da - check out the top of talk page!SatuSuro 14:14, 11 July 2006 (UTC)


 * ?? Bit mystified by the reasoning of the latest suggestion, am I missing something? SatuSuro 00:36, 13 July 2006 (UTC)


 * See my expanded explanation in Talk:Maatsuyker_Islands by way of reply. Phaedrus86 02:39, 13 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I am afraid I dont understand these long conversations with what appears to be yourself. As encyc entries, the south west cape entry needs to be an encyc entry, and I have edited as such.

I would like to give a poetic flair or stylistic variation to some of my west coast tas entries but usually get jumped upon, and edited. if you dont know something - rather than putting in probably - just dont put it in! I would suggest less thinking aloud on the talk pages, as the general substance of your arts is good - refs and what encyc arts are meant to be. SatuSuro 02:39, 17 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your thoughts, SatuSuro. I don't fully agree with you, but then it is not necessary to agree :-) My long conversations are an attempt to show the thinking going into significant changes, and I think such thoughts can be useful. They don't have to be read, and the cost of the storage for it is very low. Regarding use of probably, I also disagree. Most things in encyclopedias fall short of accuracy and truth, and contain several sorts of subtle bias. The more the reader can be given a transparent indication of the probability attached to content, the better equipped the reader is to judge for themselves what weight to put on it.


 * I don't care if I get jumped on. I do it for the therapeutic value, not the popularity. I am too verbose, I know, but I'm too old to change much :-) Phaedrus86 04:11, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Hey healthy well intentioned disagreement can in fact be very useful :) As for veracity and truth, ah a very long talk page could be brought up about my problems with some editors who are problems unto themslves :)   Lets just hope they stay clear of the arts that we work on :-   Now that you've indicated yr age (anyone who alludes to zen and pirsig, I read it first in Sydney in 1973, and I am between the fifth and sixth decades) I retract all my above criticisms outright. That you have the courage to do what you do, I remain in respect of anyone who can survive those who were probably born more recently than 1987... the less said the better. Please keep it up, if I truncate some articles or have differences, well lets enjoy it! :) SatuSuro 04:24, 17 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Absolutely, truncate away. I don't regard any of my contributions as perfect, each is just one step in a long trail of ant footprints... Phaedrus86


 * If you linked your email address (in your prefs), I would have further to say offline! SatuSuro 04:40, 17 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The email address was there, but not confirmed. I have confirmed it now, so it should be accessible. Phaedrus86 05:57, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Port Davey
Excellent to see this in the todo - please note that the west coast entry for Hells Gates identifies one at Macquarie Harbour, and one at Port Davey - it'll be a challenge for the disambigs when you get to it. the cover of one of the books in the hells gates i think has the port davey one as an image... when you get to it let me know and I'll check it! SatuSuro 03:35, 21 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for pointing that out, it's useful. It'll be a while before I get there. I appear to be travelling at about kayak speed around the coast. Phaedrus86 05:08, 21 July 2006 (UTC)


 * BTW looking at the Maat article, I am wondering whether the coords should be closer to the names? Oh I also think if you/we could find a copryight hassle free photo of one of them - you really do have an art that could be reviewed for a GA, FA or even a DYK listing, if you were interested - I could get one of my admin friends to give it a once over if you were interested in that sort of fame? I hope you understand my acronym usage SatuSuro 12:21, 21 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Satusoro. I moved the table rows a bit closer together. If I was energetic I would use the fancy Wikimedia table code, but it looks a bit fiddly. Photo is a good idea, I hadn't thought of it. There are a number of photos on the web published by kayakers. I have asked for permission to use one, we'll see. Shouldn't be too hard to track down a good image and permission to use it.


 * I worked out what a GA and an FA is. Don't know what a DYK is. Regarding having the article rated - feel free, but it's not my article, I just did some work polishing it, so I don't think it is really up to me to have an opinion on that one way or another. I'm not much interested in "that sort of fame". Phaedrus86 13:21, 21 July 2006 (UTC)


 * DYK is 'do you know' grab for the Main Page each day - if there was something unusual/unique that is in the art it can be put up on the nomination, then its something a friendly admin can either support or help nominate... As for fame on wikipedia, like adminship, it is an acquired taste, and no wonder some have a userbox with 'I am not and admin and never intend to be one' or words similar...  the aggravation in contentious areas is sufficient to make some bitter and twisted and worse  :(    SatuSuro 13:54, 21 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I know, I have been embroiled in similar things before and it is just a pain in the neck, so now I just keep my head below the parapet and work on what I want to work on. Phaedrus86 23:51, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Category:Headlands of Australia
I think you might need to know of this category if you havent seen it yet, just found it while working on wrecks on Cape Leeuwin ! SatuSuro 05:50, 22 July 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, thanks. I just added it to South East Cape and South West Cape, Tasmania. --Phaedrus86 06:01, 22 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Very impressed by beutified tables as well!SatuSuro 06:05, 22 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh and I forgot to say today is the 106th anniversary of a wrecking of at least three ships and grounding of more as well at Hamelin Bay, hows that! SatuSuro 06:06, 22 July 2006 (UTC)


 * BTW - do you have access to wreck info for islands and thingies? I would have thought there'd be some real humdingers in the south coast region? SatuSuro 06:51, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The National Shipwreck Database seems to be a good place to start. It has an impressive set of search facilities. I haven't had a look through it yet, but I will sometime soon.
 * --Phaedrus86 08:01, 24 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much for that - should keep me distracted! Hey I got my Cape Sorell Waverider Buoy article deleted ths morning by some non australian editors, it led me on the track to see how important it is - so much for trying to keep the head down - one DYK one week, one art AFd the next !  :)  Keep well, oh we got our rain today (ie Perth WA) at last! SatuSuro 08:05, 24 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Being led along the odd and fictitious Bass Straight Triangle nonsense came across the following with 'hipwreck' in part of one of the page headings, having been in the garden too long yesterday I can relate to that misprint! http://www.oceans.com.au/oewreck-australia.html :) SatuSuro 10:04, 24 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Well said on wellington! I couldnt agree more, the positioning of many antennae/aerials/mobile phone towers here in wa depend on exactly that point regardless of the other issues SatuSuro 13:00, 25 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Not often I come across such obvious logical fallacies! --Phaedrus86 13:21, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Freak waves and waverider buoys

 * BTW I have had an increasing interest in both freak waves and waverider bouys (as in afd)- if you ever come across anything in your travels (apart from the wiki entry on freak waves) I'd appreciate a clue - I suspect that the loss of so many people from rocks along the south coast of wa is probably due to them occurring there SatuSuro 13:40, 25 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Not only WA - fishermen and tourists get washed off rocks lots of places. It's an interesting topic - seems to me a lot of deaths occur because of lack of understanding of what constitutes normal wave patterns. --Phaedrus86 21:42, 25 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Short of meticulous and scientifically trained coroners and or filmed witness records I imagine it would be like the whole freak wave mythology issue prior to the science as on the wiki art

SatuSuro 00:41, 26 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Did a quick investigation of waves:
 * link from the middle of Freak wave: Freak waves, rogue waves, extreme waves and ocean wave climate. And that page has some interesting looking links to other pages. Two in particular caught my eye: Rogue Wave Conferences 2000 and 2004, both of which have a bunch of links to detailed scientific papers on many esoteric aspects of rogue waves.
 * might be a letdown after the previous item, but still this is a chapter on waves, and the site is a whole book on oceanography. Oceanography: waves
 * Queensland government Parks and Wildlife Service page on Waverider buoys as used in Queensland. Looks like it's got lots of information on them, and there are lots of links to other pages on related topics.


 * That lot should keep you reading until Christmas :-)


 * I had a couple of thoughts after a quick read of this stuff: firstly, I had a read of the Afd log for the Cape Sorell Waverider Buoy, and cruel though the voters seemed, I tend to buy their argument for deletion. Thing is, it was an article on just one buoy, whereas it would be a lot more informative to provide an article on Waverider Buoys generally, describing what they are, how they are used and where they are deployed around the world and why. Maybe a related article on ocean wave research, although the existing articles Freak wave and Ocean surface wave are quite good. Against all this, an article on just one buoy kind of misses the target.


 * Secondly, my quick read also seems to confirm what I read in the past, that wave patterns can combine to form very occasional much larger waves. I regard this as "normal wave patterns". Random events can easily mean that once in a blue moon a 15 metre wave will break over rocks. Too often people used to the area judge normal on what they have seen and not on what is possible. Happens lots of places. I recall a whole family lost at Kiama a decade or so ago, although that might have been the blowhole and crass stupidity. I tend to think big signs must be put out near all rocks to warn people, then treat it like the Vendee Globe ocean race - if they get in trouble, they chose it, so let them get themselves out of it.....but I'm being too right wing, I know, plenty of times I've been rescued from situations I should have avoided. --Phaedrus86 11:36, 26 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your time! Werll considered responses are so rare on wiki, it is appreciated.

Yes I agree the queensland bouy web page is the best state page so far - and there is the BOM page as well

As far as I can tell, there are now about or up to approximately 30 wavereider bouys in australia, and some were being utilised in limited roles in 1992 or slightly earlier - but the cape sorell one is and was unique as it was the first dedicated BOM waverider bouy in australia (although the one in the water might be physically the second as after the 'break'in the big water I havent found as to whetther it was recovered or replaced) and possibly the first dedicated bouy in australia (havent checked carefully enough yet) so for notoriety (bit like all the private school wiki pages with the lists "notable alumni" : I think it deserves one point if I can verify both of those. SatuSuro 00:41, 28 July 2006 (UTC) more later! thanks again!

Extreme points of Australia
I think this one needs some links to be fixed up by your esteemed self! SatuSuro 13:31, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmm, thank you (I think!). Bit busy at the moment, but I'll see what I can do in a few days. --Phaedrus86 13:37, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey, take your time - just a bit of BTW or FYI, or something for the lowest level TODO :)  My TODO i think has exploded before it has hit the keyboard :) SatuSuro 14:06, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Hadnt seen you on for a while - trust all is well with you! Best wishes from rainy Darling Scarp !! SatuSuro 14:11, 14 August 2006 (UTC)


 * So that's where all the darn rain has gone - send it back here, we need it for the spring!! I've been around, working slowly on Belledonne, a planned expansion of Christopher Koch, and revisiting an article Sigismund von Herberstein I did 4 years ago that got mentioned. Phaedrus86 21:50, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Germaine Greer
Hi Phaedrus, no offense intended! I appreciate your edits and all your hard work :-) - Ta bu shi da yu 12:34, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Cultural Cringe
Thankyou for your recent rewriting of many of the examples on this page. However, just as some constructive criticism, let me suggest that Wikipedia is not a place for personal opinion. Please do not just delete sections of the article in bulk that have solid research and citations and simply dismiss it in the editor notes "nonsense", then go and add whole sections which are thorougly unresearched, uncited and contain your POV. This is bordering on vandalism and as a result I have had to revert some of your edits until you present a valid case in the discussion section of the article for rewriting based on your personal point of view. --Biatch 00:27, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

thankyou
Thankyou for fixing Template:Collab-australian - I honestly thought that was the first thing I changed. Perhaps I managed to follow the link from the preview pane or something :-( It was late at night when I remembered to do it at all. Anyway, thankyou, and for the content you're putting in Bringing Them Home, too. --Scott Davis Talk 00:29, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Whew!
I reverted my turkey message when I saw it - and dont go back to any swamp - the place thingy is eating up everywhere - local govts or streets - it seems the flavpur of the weekend big ructions everywhere with templates and titles and all. SatuSuro 06:59, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't mind if the kiddies have their fun, and if they weren't preaching peace and love they'd be out mugging people. Re "the place thingy" (I know, it's a technical term...!) I guess there's sense in ordering things, but it seems a bit silly when it gets to things like saying a town is in a council, when I know perfectly well its in a municipal area - all a bit Catch 22. I'm not really complaining, and Chuq was quite obliging about changing New Norfolk. Phaedrus86 11:58, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Well when I started working on the west coast - I relegated the West Coast Council to its own article, and the proceeded to do my own introduction to the west coast in a separate article - no-one has pulled me up on that one in over a year - although I was never allowed (when I starrted) to have the Macquarie Harbour Penal Station title subserviant to the Sarah Island title - so you lose some and wonder about others :) Cheers SatuSuro 14:32, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Phosphorus and phosphorous
I assure you it is not a US spelling thing. Phosphorus is the right spelling of the element everywhere. Phosphorous has a specific chemical meaning, it usually relates to phosphorous acid. Hope that makes it clearer. --Guinnog 04:11, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I did notice that the name was spelled wrongly in the reference as well, you are right. --Guinnog 04:36, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
 * No worries. I really appreciate that others besides me care enough about spelling to query my changes. Best wishes, --Guinnog 17:17, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

HappyChristmas
Hope I havent polluted your talk page too much this year -! - all the best wishes for christmas and the new year !SatuSuro 14:23, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * You are very kind - Im in last minute christmas ever preparations - I will get to it - thanks you again. Have a very safe christmasSatuSuro 10:13, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Re cultural cringe i think i might have frightened away the massive red link editor, I hope he stays around... SatuSuro 12:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh well, a SatuSuro in full flight can be a scary thing to those who are not used to it! Hopefully he won't be scared too far away. I think he has made a great improvement to what was a truly awful article at Cultural cringe (makes me cringe to read it, especially the earlier versions), so I think I will post a little encouragement on his talk page, lest he think we are all ogres! Phaedrus86 12:11, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Please do - I like the description, I probably am like that to my 16 year old when I try to warn him of world of warcraft addiciton! SatuSuro 12:18, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It only gets worse - my 18 and 20 year olds are now driving on the roads the rest of us have to use!
 * I added my comments to Dr C's page. It is quite possible his lack of response is simply because he just doesn't want to chat to people. As long as he does good work, I'm happy to leave him to his solitude and anonymity. Phaedrus86 12:25, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 * anon ? - he's number one on goggoll against his own name - anyways he simply needs to know that hes very welcome but with wikipedia conditions so to speak! SatuSuro 12:31, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Oops - forgot to put the other bit of info - one of my indonesian project compatriots put a speedy delete on an article he was linking with others - it sort of was a grenade in the car seat so to speak - I was trying to hint at sandbox use - rather than the page long red link edit summaries - I would say the speedy delete (if it happened) could be reversed in a sandbox with refs and links SatuSuro 12:44, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Tried talking with him today even emailed - ignored so far SatuSuro 11:36, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I am beginning to wonder - refusal to respond to talk items might suggest either shyness (which is not evident from having red link full name blistering up and down the contributions list), ignorance of the protocols of being in wikipedia, or lack of understanding of the use of the talk page - none of it rubs. Also there seems to be what might be a nuisance isp link editor following some of his edits - or is it my distorted west australian perception again?  SatuSuro 07:14, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * He responded to my latest comments very rapidly. When I said I would remove the material on "Cultural alienation" if citations weren't provided, citations started appearing by the bucketful.
 * You can't make someone talk to you if they don't want to, so I suggest just leave it unless you have specific changes you want made. If you want specific changes, the method I used seems to work - state the intention to remove it if it is not cleaned up.
 * The only problem I have with his work is a slight tendancy to self promote. I have his book ordered from the local library. When it arrives I'll go through his contributions and remove citations he has added for it where it is not a decent reference for the article. Phaedrus86 07:36, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Slight? the user name alone... If I was one of the more aggro usa admins that I know - he'd be required to change user name at gunpoint on the issue of conflict of interest alone in relation to his edits.... Anyways back to tagging.. cheers SatuSuro 08:03, 18 January 2007 (UTC) But I trust you get on well with him - after my blast here and on his talk page - I'll leave it that - there seems a point of not bothering if hes not prepared to interact - to his detriment in the long term no doubt SatuSuro 09:42, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Greer image
Phaedrus, about the Greer image, I'm not sure Greer's agents are in a position to release it. The image seems to be owned by Corbis, and is for sale on their website. That's why I had to take the previous one down. I wrote to her agents and couldn't get a straight answer out of them. SlimVirgin (talk) 01:19, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, I just found an e-mail from September 2006 from Delena McConnell of Gillon Aitken Associates saying they don't own the copyright, so unless they've purchased it since then, they can't release it. SlimVirgin (talk) 01:23, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I replaced the image with a link to her page on her agent's site. Phaedrus86 02:22, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry. I don't mean to be a party pooper. Weird that the same person would tell me they didn't own it, then a couple of months later try to give permission. Maybe they genuinely have acquired the rights in the meantime. SlimVirgin (talk) 02:47, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Not to worry, I know you are just trying to do the right thing. In hindsight I shouldn't have tried it, becuase a commercial organisation is very rarely going to put something completely in the public domain, so we just have to skip having that class of image on Wikipedia. Thanks for your patience. Phaedrus86 03:11, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe they genuinely have acquired the rights in the meantime. She said: Here is a photograph of Professor Germaine Greer that you may use, in response to a request I sent spelling out Wikipedia's draconian rules. I followed up with an email to her telling her what exact licence I had put on it on her behalf, and she didn't reply. I think it unlikely that the agents acquired the copyright in the image, because I think agents don't care about that, they only care if they can use it freely. They are in the business of selling literary works, not photographs. My guess is she doesn't care about Wikipedia's rules. That works unless anyone picks up on the fine print, which they have, so it falls in a heap. I don't think it is worth trying to pursue it, because the agents work for money, and taking up their time with copyright queries is in my view an unfair imposition on them. Easier to just link to their site. If that gets removed then I will just leave it to readers to do their own Google search, because it is not worth the effort. Phaedrus86 03:28, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

You didn't sign
Thought I'd let you know that you didn't sign your report at WP:AIV John Reaves 06:24, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure, glad to help. John Reaves 08:13, 11 January 2007 (UTC)