User talk:Phil Bridger/July 2013 – September 2013

Edward Peel
I suspect we may have both been working behind the scenes on the Sir Edward Peel article and are waiting to be allowed to edit it. I have a draft here, hidden at present to avoid linkbacks. Will it be OK if I put it in place as soon as the DRV closes? BTW, I think the present title may be OK to disambiguate from Edward Peel but I'm not fussed. Naming conventions (people). Or Edward Peel (big-game fisherman)? Thincat (talk) 10:57, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Any work that I have done behind the scenes pales into insignificance in comparison to your draft. Go for it. I'm not bothered about the title, but I know that there is resistance from many editors to the use of honorific titles rather than parenthetical descriptors as disambiguatorsPhil Bridger (talk) 16:59, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, parenthetical would be wiser, I can understand people not liking titles. Peel seems in many ways an unsatisfactory person but I've found so little about him. What happened in the war, who was his wife, did they have children (there on none on a family tree I found but he was incidental to the tree anyway), did he have the yacht specially built (I see it was built in 1927), why did he get a KBE? If it gets userified to you I'll just copy and paste as a whole my draft (I have done all the edits and scarcely a phrase was in the original) so attribution should be OK. I found a photo of a steam yacht called St George but it sadly turned out to be the wrong one! We'll see what happens... Thincat (talk) 18:12, 30 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I had to get up early and I found Spartaz had noticed it had been snowing overnight! I have put my text in place. Thincat (talk) 06:37, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Koridor coal mine
Hi Phil, You have removed the deletion tag in Koridor coal mine. I may have mistaken when I chose G1. But I am not sure which tag should I use. The problem is that the article refers to a nonexistent mine and the so-called reference is not about a Koridor coal mine. Maybe you can be kind enough to suggest a more appropriate tag. Thanks Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 13:40, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The source does mention Koridor (just search for it in the text) and confirms the amount of reserves of lignite. It is unclear whether it is referring to a coal mine or a coal field but that is simply a reason to ask for clarification, not to call for speedy deletion. Phil Bridger (talk) 13:49, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Well please see Talk:Koridor coal mine and User talk:Bine Mai. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 11:57, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * It's great that you have started discussing this. That is the way to sort out such issues rather that to look for a speedy deletion criterion to use. Phil Bridger (talk) 12:30, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Maurice Bidermann
You reverted my BLPROD on the article because you said it has a reference. If you check the reference (Google Translate works pretty well), you'll see it does not cover any of the personal information of the individual in question. Just his conviction, and sparse info at that. -- Kimon talk 22:13, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
 * That's enough to make it ineligible for WP:BLPPROD: "To place a BLPPROD tag, the process requires that the article contain no sources in any form (as references, external links, etc.), which support any statements made about the person in the biography." Phil Bridger (talk) 06:13, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

2004-05 Taça de Portugal
Hello,

I can see that you previously removed a deletion template from the page 2004-05 Taça de Portugal. Added the template again with reasons why the article should be deleted: no references, incomplete, some wrong information, the name of the article is misspelled. I have created a replacement page entitled 2004–05 Taça de Portugal, which is referenced and complete.

User talk:Alexgreene87, 10 July 2013, 13:37 (UTC)

Las Madrinas Ball
Thanks for removing the prod. The article was nominated for AfD as being the same as any other ball in any American city. That is complete nonsense. SL93 (talk) 04:29, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

AFD Atargatis (band)
The discussion is not absolute, the band's notability is weak as noted by the discussion. The discussion itself can hardly be considered significant with the 4 users who commented? The WP:BAND Notability guideline does not mandate that an article be kept if it meets a bullet point, it indicates that the subject MAY be notable. The band is inactive, achieved no standard of notability other than being signed. The General guideline states that significant independent coverage is required. it doesn't exist in this case. WP:NTEMP could also be interpreted to apply to the subject. Even if the band became notable when it signed with a label, it has not remained so. "While notability itself is not temporary, from time to time, a reassessment of the evidence of notability or suitability of existing articles may be requested by any user via a deletion discussion,". Thoughts? Sephiroth storm (talk) 01:01, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * All that is completely beside the point, which is that if you want to raise the issue of deletion again you need to start another discussion at WP:AFD, because, as I explained perfectly clearly and you could confirm by following the link that I provided to policy, the WP:PROD procedure for deletion without discussion can't be used for an article that has been kept at a previous discussion. Phil Bridger (talk) 07:12, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * You are correct, I had forgotten about AFD, had thought that the prod would list the article for deletion discussion. Thanks! Sephiroth storm (talk) 00:37, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

speedy
The key reason I became an admin, as I said back at my RfA, was to check speedy deleted articles. Any you think need checking, ask me, on wiki or by email. Do you want me to go thru your deleted contribution history and check all those you questioned? (btw, why just question, when you can remove the speedy tag yourself?)  DGG ( talk ) 05:10, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the offer. I do remove speedy tags when I contest them, but still sometimes find that the article gets deleted anyway. I don't think that there's much point in raking over old coals but I'll bear your offer in mind if this situation happens again. Phil Bridger (talk) 12:54, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Arya (tribe)
Regarding your removing the db-ar10 notice, please note that this article was created to bolster a POV that the people who entered Assam were Aryans, which is discussed here: Talk:Aryan_migration_to_Assam. Is this article about a single tribe, or multiple tribes not in List of Rigvedic tribes? Chaipau (talk) 17:14, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * What you say here may be true, but this is in no way a duplicate of List of Rigvedic tribes as that doesn't even mention Arya, so can't be speedily deleted as a duplicate article. If you think that there is a good reason to delete Arya (tribe) then start a discussion at WP:AFD. Phil Bridger (talk) 17:25, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Please do search for a tribe called "Arya", and do check for yourself. I shall either ask for a merge or a delete.  Chaipau (talk) 18:01, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I won't be searching because I know that there are plenty of editors (probably including yourself) who are better able to evaluate this. My only involvement is to point out that this is obviously not a duplicate article, so doesn't qualify for speedy deletion as a duplicate article. Phil Bridger (talk) 18:05, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * How is it obvious? Did you visit the references cited?  Chaipau (talk) 18:17, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * There's no need to look at the references to see that one article is not a duplicate of another. How can Arya (tribe) possibly be a duplicate of List of Rigvedic tribes when the list article doesn't even mention Arya? You are probably correct that Arya (tribe) should be deleted, but it doesn't come anywhere close to qualifying for speedy deletion under this criterion. As I said in my first reply above you need to start a discussion at WP:AFD if you think it should be deleted rather than try to get it speedily deleted under an inapplicable criterion. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:01, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Bharatiya Sangeet Vadya
Hi, as to Bharatiya Sangeet Vadya, the book still does not fulfill notability guidelines for books, in the sense that it has not been shown to be "the subject of multiple, non-trivial published works". Consequently, your removal of PROD tags was incorrect. Additionally, this is not an English-language book not has it been translated into English as far as I know - little chances are there that an English speaker would ever look up an encyclopaedia for this title. Hence, I insist that the book non-notable on English Wikipedia (it might warrant an entry on Hindi wiki, though). Regards,  kashmiri TALK  17:16, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The notability guidelines require that sources should exist, not that they are currently cited in the article, and more reliable sources can be found here and I'm sure that there are loads more in Hindi. No removal of a WP:PROD tag is ever incorrect, because such a tag can be removed by anyone who contests deletion for any reason. And this is an encyclopedia of the whole world that happens to be written in English, not of only the English-speaking world, so the language of this book and the lack of an English translation are utterly irrelevant to the question of deletion. Phil Bridger (talk) 17:33, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The Google Books link shows all the 37 English-language books where the title was mentioned; none of these has BSV as subject as required by the guideline. Again, there is no evidence the book has much place in English literature, and as such should not merit inclusion on en-wiki (WP:IINFO). Language does matter, and what fulfils notability guidelines on hi-wiki does not necessarily have to be notable on other wikis. Hence, regional Wikipedias are not translations of each other.
 * The only option I see the book could be argued notable is saying it is an academic book, thus a different set of criteria will be applied per WP:BK. We can argue that its publisher can be called an academic publisher (even though this can easily be disputed since their books don't necessarily go through peer review).
 * I suggest the discussion is continued on the book's Talk page.  kashmiri TALK  18:34, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but you are simply wrong in your statements about language. Yes, different language wikis have different inclusion criteria, and I have no knowledge of how the Hindi Wikipedia handles such things, but here on English Wikipedia there is nothing whatsoever in any of our notability guideline that discriminates on the basis of the language of an article subject, or says that a book has to have any place in English literature. If you can't grasp that simple concept then I have no interest in discussing this any further. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:07, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * As you are unable to back up your claims of notability (and resort to personal attacks instead), I will be nominating the article for deletion.  kashmiri TALK  19:19, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I have made no personal attack. If you nominate this for deletion on the basis that the book is not in English then you will get plenty of other editors telling you that you are wrong, which will also not be a personal attack. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:26, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Nomination was on the basis of notability. The language issue is an additional one. The third issue, which initially escaped my attention, is the likely conflict of interest between the article creator and principal editor and the subject. All of this together warrants a discussion IMHO.  kashmiri TALK  21:51, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

PROD tag
Hi. On these two edits (1 & 2), I thought that giving the reason is optional. Can I PROD them again, this time with reason?Farhikht (talk) 09:16, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 * If you don't give a reason then how is anyone supposed to decide whether they agree with you? Please start discussions at WP:AFD if you think these should be deleted, as the articles contain references that would appear to indicate that notability is likely, so deletion would not be uncontroversial as required for the WP:PROD procedure. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:13, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok and thank you for your help.Farhikht (talk) 10:26, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Just a note....
When you responded to User:Tertulius and wrote "The sources that have been added to the article are this one apparently published by the director of this film..." you made it appear that you believe Portugese author José de Matos-Cruz and filmmaker Ricardo Costa are the same person. How did you arrive at this conclusion?  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 05:39, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The source claims to have been written by José de Matos-Cruz, but was published at http://rcfilms.dotster.com/, whose home page identifies as Ricardo Costa's web site. And, of course, there's the minor point that that source doesn't even mention Drifts. Phil Bridger (talk) 05:43, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I know dotster.com is a web hosting site. My own "official site" was hosted with forunecity.com before that host was bought out by dostster and I stayed with them before getting tired of hosting problems and moved it to Avahost.com And I do not see any issue with any reliable source page being archived at such a site, and just wished to clarify that the registered owner of the website hsting the archived PDF and the author of the archived page are not the same person.  Tertulius could have used the wayback machine or some other method to show us the original sources for that PDF. The PDF speaks toward a planned trilogy and mentions a planned trilogy called Longes (Distant) with part one named Brumas (Mists), but yes... it does NOT speak of something Derivas (or Drifts) as part two.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 07:50, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Web of Knowledge
Per your AfD comment, that is a resource of which I was not aware. Do you know if there is a list of citation resources for certain areas anywhere on WP, and if not, is there any value in creating one? I can see how it would make the AfD process more efficient, either by allowing for very specific statements regarding a lack of meeting notability criteria per X, Y, and Z, or being a way to establish notability before said article even gets to AfD (and avoiding WP:HEY). MSJapan (talk) 04:16, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't know of any such list, and the only citation index of which I am aware that is available without subscription is Google Scholar, which doesn't have clearly defined inclusion criteria so is less reliable than Web of Knowledge and Scopus, which are only available through academic libraries. Phil Bridger (talk) 06:37, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Focus Ireland
Thank you for at least partially alleviating my concern. Now, I'd like your opinion; one of the founders is Rachel Collier. Given the existence of Rachel K Collier; is this Rachel Collier notable for something else (she currently falls foul of WP:1EVENT) or should I simply carve a disambiguation page out of it?-- Laun  chba  ller  13:45, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The book that I cited, and Focus Ireland's web site, attribute the founding to Stanislaus Kennedy alone, so I'll just remove Collier's name from the article and your problem will be solved. Phil Bridger (talk) 13:54, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I'll just redirect Rachel Collier to Rachel K Collier then.-- Laun  chba  ller  14:05, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Taxi to L.A.


The article Taxi to L.A. has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * not much on the page, and WP:MOVIE

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. ModelUN (talk) 02:18, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Banded speed cosmology
killed the PROD you endorsed at Banded speed cosmology. I've opened an AFD for it that you may want to comment on. Jackmcbarn (talk) 15:47, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Evixion
Hello,

You contested my PROD on Evixion. Why would you say that the film passes WP:MOVIE?

ModelUN (talk) 01:29, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * By virtue of significant coverage in independent reliable sources. Notability is marginal, and I wouldn't have any objection to a discussion at WP:AFD if you still consider this not to be notable. Phil Bridger (talk) 15:27, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of Evixion for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Evixion is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Evixion until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. ModelUN (talk) 21:03, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Explanation
Hi, I thank you for the precisions you came with in this article though I reverted them so as to provide more references claiming that he is the youngest journalist of the country. I had a talk with other wiki admins and they seem to accept it and approve it as a secondary source. --Wikifan115 (talk) 23:19, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Do external links count as references?
I saw you removed a Prod blp from Hubert Gatignon, saying it has a reference. I see one external link and no references. Do external links count as references for purposes of that? Jackmcbarn (talk) 16:37, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes. It's even in bold type. Phil Bridger (talk) 16:39, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Wow, I can't believe I didn't see that. Sorry to bother you. Jackmcbarn (talk) 17:12, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Паркын танилцуулгаАялалаа төлөвлөеАрга хэмжээБилет болон захиалга
Hello Phil. Yesterday you removed a prod tag from this non-English article saying that there was no reason to depart from our practice of allowing two weeks for translation. You might have missed though that this article has been sitting at WP:PNT since 5 July, so time's really up now. Please restore the prod or we would have to go through an unnecessarily bureaucratic AFD. De728631 (talk) 14:01, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Done, and sorry for the trouble. I don't know how I managed to miss that. Phil Bridger (talk) 14:38, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Cyril Blausten
You forgot to indicate what the copyvio was from, but it was easy enough to find, so I specified where and deleted it.  DGG ( talk ) 18:47, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * OK. I'm always happy when someone corrects my mistakes! Phil Bridger (talk) 18:51, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/RfC Reviewer permission
You are invited to join the discussion at WikiProject Articles for creation/RfC Reviewer permission. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:28, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Special invitation to join WikiProject India
You are specially invitation to join WikiProject India. This is the template we generally copy paste:

Now, Please let me if you have any question or comment. I am watching this page. I'll hope you'll consider joining our WikiProjects. -- Tito ☸ Dutta 21:32, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the invitation, but I'll turn it down. I prefer to take a generalist approach whereby I work on any article that draws my attention rather than concentrate on any specific topic area. Even your offer below, which certainly got my taste buds twitching, isn't enough to persuade me! Phil Bridger (talk) 22:00, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

How are they notable?
I noticed you removed the PRODs on Suprobhat Bangladesh and Ekobingsho. I don't see anything in the articles themselves that indicates their notability. Are you seeing something in them I'm not, or do you recognize them as notable from outside what their article says? Jackmcbarn (talk) 23:33, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * You gave the deletion rationale "doesn't appear notable", so I responded in kind. The appearance is that Suprobhat Bangladesh is a regional daily newspaper and Ekobingsho is a literary magazine established and edited by a major writer and academic. Such topics in the United Kingdom and the United States are usually accepted as notable without question, so the equivalents in Bangladesh certainly do appear notable. Whether the topics actually are notable, beyong just appearing so, is something that should be decided by discussion rather than by summary deletion using WP:PROD. Phil Bridger (talk) 13:24, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * See also, Talk:Anjan_Dutt_discography here we are looking for second opinion (Jackmcbarn, someone has removed your request from 3O page), and they merged an article without any discussion or edit summary. -- Tito ☸ Dutta 20:12, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 4
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Golly
Thanks for your input. I don't often look at my talk page, hence the long delay in hearing from me.

As I understand it, there are several published articles that reference Golly. Is that your suggestion? How should such references be handled?

Dean Street Studios
Regarding this - I described it as in the Unite States as the (only) category was. GiantSnowman 08:06, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I prefer to go by the sources. Phil Bridger (talk) 09:14, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

talk:stalking
There were several comments made on the Talk:Stalking section that amounted to personal attacks on both of us by editor Damenthesis (apparently by his registered account and an unregistered URL) back in April that I think would be appropriate to remove before the section is eventually archived- and probably the part of our responses that dignify them. Let me know what you think, it's not high on my priority list but I think it should be done.Batvette (talk) 03:31, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I really don't care one way or the other. Do whatever you think fit. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:59, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the lession
Thank you for the helpful edit summary here. Would you consider this article (or any equivalent) eligible for A7 if the league was left out of the into: Jane Doe is a footballer who plays as a midfielder for "club"? Or would the same indication of importance apply, if that was the same club that played in the same league? Cheers Mentoz86 (talk) 11:47, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Department of Regional Australia, Local Government, Arts and Sport
Phil, I have left a note for you on the DoRALGAS talk page, would appreciate your thoughts. Cheers, Clare.

Clare. (talk) 12:29, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Accismus
If there has already been discussion on deleting the Accismus article, why does it not appear on its Talk page? And where is the discussion? Mzilikazi1939 (talk) 17:35, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I didn't say that there had been a deletion discussion, but that deletion had previously been contested. That means that the WP:PROD procedure, which calls for deletion without discussion, can't be used again. The procedure for starting deletion discussions is explained at WP:AFD. I would add that I can't make head nor tail of "since the article was written, comment has been misapplied and unreferenced" as a reason for deletion, or as an English sentence at all. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:54, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Thx. Staszek Lem seems to have taken the article in hand so I'll hold off for a while to see if the article develops into something less dictionary-like. My incoherence arose from sitting at a cramped table in a noisy Cretan hotel lobby. While it's an ideal place to contemplate figures of Greek rhetoric, it's not good for concentration! Mzilikazi1939 (talk) 07:05, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

MS Mode
Phil, I placed a delete banner on MS Mode for one primary reason, namely that it is almost completely composed of unverified and unverifiable assertions. I don't believe it can be improved by simply editing it. In order to comply with WP:NOR and WP:NPOV, you would have to gut it completely.

The secondary reason is the bad grammer, but I wouldn't want to correct it for fear that I might be seen to be supporting or accepting any of the prose.

Hope this helps, I realise it's not exactly NPOV on my part, but none the less, the article is an ugly pollution in Wikipedia.. Dutchdavey (talk) 19:38, 25 September 2013 (UTC)