User talk:Philg88/Archive 23

Can you copyedit
Hello Philg88, I know you are an expert copyeditor so I was wondering if you can do some copyediting here. Actually the things you have to do is, you have to copyedit and change the bullets into paragraphs. See there are sections with bullet points change atleast three sections into paragraphs. Please help me here. Thank you.  J i m Carter  ( talk ) 02:22, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi, thanks for the message. I took a look at your draft and without being critical, what you are asking for isn't a copyedit, it's the creation of an article from a list of facts, which is a very different thing. While I could probably make a half decent job of it, I don't want to take it on at this stage because I know too little about the topic and don't feel I could do your research justice. I suggest that you have a go at creating the requisite prose from the bulleted lists and I will then polish it for you. Best, ► Philg88 ◄ ♦talk 04:58, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I have changed this section from bullets to prose now can you have a look and make some essential changes if needed. Thank you again.  J i m Carter  ( talk ) 01:49, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅ There you go. I have left one inline note in the text. Best, ► Philg88 ◄ ♦talk 08:04, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Great, thank you so much. Actually you are correct it is caste system and abolition of Sati. I will soon work on other sections. Really, you are a true copyeditor. Thank you again.   J i m Carter  ( talk ) 08:53, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * You're welcome :) ► Philg88 ◄ ♦talk 08:55, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Hello Philg88, I have completed my work on this draft. Now it needs your polishing. I have changed most of the bullet sections into prose. Now the draft is almost complete just your excellent copyediting is needed. So I was wondering if you can help me? Thank you.  J i m Carter  ( talk ) 07:29, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Hey, sure. I'll do it section by section over the next couple of days and let you know when it's finished. Please don't change it while I'm on the case to avoid edit conflicts. Cheers, ► Philg88 ◄ ♦talk 07:36, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay, Thank you so so so much. You are the Best.  J i m Carter  ( talk ) 08:13, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Is it complete now? Can I move it to mainspace now? Can I take it for DYK or a peer review?  J i m Carter  ( talk ) 06:12, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Hey please slow down! Wikipedia is a marathon rather than a sprint and no, it isn't finished. As I said previously, I will let you know when it is. The copyedit on your article is not a two minute job and requires a lot of thought so please be patient. As for the DYK, the clock only starts once the article enters the main space so there is no rush. Best, ► Philg88 ◄ ♦talk 06:22, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh sorry, please take your time there is no hurry. I'm sorry.  J i m Carter  ( talk ) 07:01, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

The copyedit of your article is now complete; here are a few comments to bear in mind: Cheers, ► Philg88 ◄ ♦talk 07:28, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * There are still three bulleted lists in the article - good articles use prose
 * You should decide what you are calling this group - sometimes you refer to them as Moderates, sometimes as Early Nationalists. It's your call which one you use but be consistent.
 * Don't forget to convert Category:History of India and Category:Indian politicians at the end of the article text into categories.
 * And anything else. I mean WP:OVERLINK as you mentioned in the edit summary? And since you have many articles featured on DYK so what you think should I take this for DYK? will it pass?  J i m Carter  ( talk ) 07:44, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * You don't want much do you?
 * I've fixed the over/duplicate links but you need to address these two further issues as well as those listed above:
 * There are too many links in the lead - read WP:LEAD and follow the advice, I recommend that you move all the references in the lead to the appropriate places in the main body.
 * There are three citations missing
 * As for the DYK, nothing explosively interesting or world-changing jumps out of the article as it stands. Consider these questions: were the Early Nationalists the first to do something? Did they do something that altered the course of world history? What made them unique? If you can identify something that fits one of these criteria —with references to back it up— then you can certainly submit it for DYK. There is no "pass" or "fail" for DYK if it meets the criteria explained here. So, provided you follow the rules, there is no reason why it won't be accepted. ► Philg88 ◄ ♦talk 08:24, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for your help. I have done what you said. But I can't change the bullets into prose because I know little bit about them. And I can't find much about them after some research. Now can you take a quick look. I will move it tomorrow. And yes it has made a change in our Indian history because they are the starting point of organished nationalistic movement in India. I have also added a reference to it. So that it can be taken for DYK. Thanks again.  J i m Carter  ( talk ) 14:54, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Hey, I've made a few changes to the lede to improve readability. Good to go now. Cheers, ► Philg88 ◄ ♦talk 05:18, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I will not move it now since it is not complete. I will add two more sections. Thanks again.  J i m Carter  ( talk ) 06:05, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Hello Philg88, I have added another section but it need your copyediting see here please. Please let me know if you can copyedit. Thank you.    J i m Carter  ( talk ) 11:28, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅ ► Philg88 ◄ ♦talk 12:44, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Great work! Awesome speed! Thank you. Any further comments??    J i m Carter  ( talk ) 14:01, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Not really, there's nothing that I can do to improve it further as it stands. Best, ► Philg88 ◄ ♦talk 15:44, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Okay. Can I use this hook [....] that the Early Nationalists were the formal beginning of the organised national movement in India?. This hook is mentioned on the lead section.  J i m Carter  ( talk ) 09:13, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * The hook is OK for length and there is a reference to it, however, the reference is "offline". Some reviewers will accept that AGF, others may request an online source. I would find and add another reference if I were you to beef it up a bit. You also need to fix the ISBN of the existing reference - it is flagged as an error. I happen to know off the top of my head that the correct isbn is 978-0195-7773-45 :) Cheers, Philg88 ♦talk 09:26, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * p.s. If you want to reply please start a new section - this is getting too long.

Nomination for merging of Template:Palestine (historic region) topics
Template:Palestine (historic region) topics has been nominated for merging with Template:Palestine topics. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you.GreyShark (dibra) 15:24, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅ Philg88 ♦talk 16:53, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Taipei climate
That's enough. It's high time I made usage of my machine, here. " My master, Annatar the Great, bids thee welcome! " 16:47, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg You've lost me :) Philg88 ♦talk 16:52, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * All pages in my userspace with the prefix "User:Lieutenant of Melkor/Climate" have been granted indefinite semi-protection per requests in userspace. And I intend to make use of that to halt almost all possible disruption to this data. " My master, Annatar the Great, bids thee welcome! " 16:55, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Good job, but how does that solve the "rain = green" problem? Philg88 ♦talk 17:02, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Fujian Dali Group
Thank you for the comments! I'll discuss these edits.

In regards on whether to use template:zh or template:Chinese I heard that when it's only Mandarin Pinyin and there are traditional and simplified characters (meaning three fields) then it is an either or on whether to use template:zh or Template:Chinese. But if you bring in other dialects, then one should definitely use template:Chinese. I am fine with the switch to Template:Chinese.

In regards to "In 2004 the company annually sold 7 billion yuan worth of product," which had "annually" deleted: The source sentence states: "The company currently has annual sales of CNY 7 billion (€700m)." so I had forgotten to write "As of 2004" instead of "In 2004". The source sentence meant the company habitually had sales of 7 billion yuan so I'll reword it to try to reflect that.

All of the other edits are fine. Thanks again! WhisperToMe (talk) 08:31, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi u|WhisperToMe, thanks for the meesage. The balance between zh and Chinese is sometimes hard to call. It's really about the amount of space it takes up in the lede: "Fujian Dali Group Co., Ltd. (simplified Chinese: 福建达利集团有限公司; traditional Chinese: 福建達利集團有限公司; pinyin: Fújiàn Dálì Jítuán Yǒuxiàngōngsī)" is breathtaking long and off-putting for some readers - hence why I put it in a Chinese infobox. For a two character Chinese name, zh can be fine, even when it's populated with four (short) fields. As for "In 2004 the company annually ...", the word "annually" is redundant since you already said when, so I deleted it. If you are going to change it to "As of 2004", I'd recommend you use the As of template as it flags potentially dated information for those interested. Cheers, Philg88 ♦talk 08:49, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Reply to the earlier discussion
Thanks the ISBN was. And what about its assessment what class should I give it?  J i m Carter  ( talk ) 11:01, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Once it's in the main article space you should request an assessment here rather than do it yourself. As it stands, I would say that the article is borderline B/C class, the three bulleted lists that I have pointed out to you before really need turning into prose before it could be considered a "B". In terms of importance, I would certainly rate it as top/high given the crucial role of the Early Nationalists in establishing the country. Best, Philg88 ♦talk 12:22, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for fixing that Dab link. Now I see has flooded the article with minor problems. He actually has a habit of digging out minor problems. But honestly he is a good editor. Anyway, I will try to fix the problems by tomorrow.  (Is it very much needed to add full citations since I have seen many Good articles don't have full citations).


 * Your new signature is looking good. :)   J i m Carter  ( talk ) 19:24, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't call them "minor problems", just things that need to be fixed up :). You've done a good job on the article so far but the devil is always in the detail. Best, Philg88 ♦talk 06:09, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm fixing them now. Sitush have added "need quotation to verify" template, so I have added a quotation here please see and let me know if this is the correct format.   J i m Carter  ( talk ) 07:05, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

The link you provided isn't a diff so it doesn't help. However, I've shortened the quote to show the essence, although I doubt if it spans pp 36-29, unless it's written backwards in very big letters :) Philg88 ♦talk 08:03, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I have all the problems raised by Sitush. Please take a quick look and let me know if I overlooked something. (It took 4 hours to fix everything, most of the time was wasted searching books in the library).  J i m Carter  ( talk ) 12:19, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Page numbers look fine. has raised a valid concern on the talk page, which you should address.  Philg88 ♦talk 06:25, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Added another reliable source to backup that school book source. Take a look.   J i m Carter  ( talk ) 07:59, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Philg, did you added three new blank sub-sections? Can you expand them? Or should I start expanding them?  J i m Carter  ( talk ) 10:45, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I added them for you to expand and improve the article as and when you want to. The link to the source I left in the edit comment is supposed to be used wherever if might be useful to satisfy 's concerns. Philg88 ♦talk 10:56, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

I have expanded one of the sub section, please copyedit. Thank you.  J i m Carter  ( talk ) 15:30, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅ with one request for clarification. Philg88 ♦talk 05:44, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Clarified. :)   J i m Carter  ( talk ) 07:35, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

What's next for the Missing women of China article?
Hi Philg88: I would like to find out what's holding up the move of this article from the sandbox to the main namespace. Please let me know (or please move it). Thanks. BerikG (talk) 17:19, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I cannot even locate the sandbox where this article is. The next step is for two peers to provide comments on the Talk page of each article (and you signed up as a reviewer, I see). How can students comment on the talk page of this article? Of course, my request is that you either move the article from whereever it is at the moment to the main namespace or allow Yangtana to do so. Thanks.BerikG (talk) 17:52, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi, and thanks for the message. Draft:Missing women of China is now ready awaiting review by any editor except the author, . For the reasons I've explained above and in various other places, I do not believe that the article title is appropriate and that a significant about of work is also required for its integration with associated articles before it moves to the main space. That said, the article is no longer move protected and provided it is accepted by a reviewing editor, anyone can move it. I think I should also recuse myself as a reviewer at the education assignments page given the level of my involvement in copyediting and restructuring of the article. Best,  Philg88 ♦talk 05:59, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Hi Philg88: I met some difficulties to understand what you said above. Could you help me to explain that in more simple words? Sorry for my poor English. :p  You said you still think that the article title is not appropriate and that a significant about of work is required before it moves to the main space. So I'm confused with this sentence: "the article is no longer move protected and provided it is accepted by a reviewing editor, anyone can move it." Is it mean that I could move it now? or I still need to do more revisions before the move? Thanks! Yangtana Li (talk) 06:19, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi and sorry if I confused you. 因为你写了那个条目，不允许将迁移.  不需要进行编辑，但是必须找到另一个编者帮你考核.  祝好， Philg88 ♦talk 06:48, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Hi Philg88: Thanks for your explanation! 实在抱歉，不是你的问题，是我的英文水平还需要大大的提高. 我明白了：现在你不能帮我考核了，需要再找另一个编者帮我考核，通过了才可以move to main space. 实在抱歉，拖累你了. >< 那我需要自己找编者对吗？你觉得这样可以吗：我去找我们这个Wikipedia Education Program 的 online volunteer，她也是编者. 你看行吗？Thanks.Yangtana Li (talk) 07:10, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
 * 你的英文水平太好了！不要当心！ 当然你可以问那位online volunteer,她应该帮你.  Philg88 ♦talk 08:26, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

谢谢你 .！以后学习的同时我也要继续努力提高英文！哈哈！That's a good news for me. I gonna leave a message to her to see if she can help me to move the article to the namespace. Thanks so much for helping me with the article these days! Thanks a lot! I'll keep improving it after finals this week. 如果以后涉及关于中国方面的内容，我还会来找你帮忙的！^^ Thanks!! Have a nice day! ^o^ Best,Yangtana Li (talk) 08:39, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Masikryong Ski Resort
The DYK project (nominate) 10:22, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Barnstar
Tireless contributor barnstar moved to User:Philg88/Barnstars


 * Thanks,, that was a very kind comment. Best, Philg88 ♦talk 16:22, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I totally agree with ! -Zanhe (talk) 20:07, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Here Here! ch (talk) 01:42, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Make it two.   J i m Carter  ( talk ) 04:22, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Early Nationalists
PanydThe muffin is not subtle 06:38, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Your knee-jerk revert
Let me politely suggest that you not edit war on the Gandhi page. I have been working on the article for a long time. You haven't. You are not an expert on Gandhi. Merely checking a detail or two is not enough. There is a longstanding process of consensus building in place on that page. I just purchased Disalvio's book. While it does have useful details, there is no mention of University College, London. Nevertheless, you have left UCL in. Besides, in a much chronicled and analyzed life such as Gandhi's, there are opinions (by respected historians such as Judith M. Brown, Anthony Low, Stanley Wolpert, or political scientists such as Lloyd and Susanne Rudolph, much better known than Disalvio or Guha) about every aspect of his career. Scholars are mentioned by name in just one section of the Gandhi article. Please self-revert before I open a long drawn out debate on the talk page. I have left a question for Disalvio. Let him answer it, and we can together decide what is important and what is not. Fowler&amp;fowler «Talk»  05:31, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi there and thanks for your message. Actually, it wasn't a knee jerk revert. I spent some time checking out Professor Desalvio and his book and I believe that his comment is germane to the article, accurate and notable. I'm not going to self-revert because my edits corrected inaccurate information about how the English legal system works. I will, however, remove the contentious quotes pending a reply from Professor Desalvio and a subsequent talk page discussion. Philg88 ♦talk 06:18, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
 * OK, no big deal. My apologies. I've replied at greater length at talk:MKG.   Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  07:17, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Reference citation for Shanghai schools ranked #1 in the world
Here is a reference citation you requested that shows Shanghai was ranked #1 in the world for international science and mathematics competitions for highschool students. Please add this to the wikipedia page.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/03/world/asia/pisa-education-study/

Thanks! 27.100.16.241 (talk) 10:43, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, that's very kind of you, but why are you posting it here rather than adding it to the article? Philg88 ♦talk 10:48, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅ Philg88 ♦talk 05:17, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Phil, you're probably unaware that this IP-hopping user has been keen on pushing the ridiculous POV that Lord Chunshen was the king of his own country. After that article was protected, he's now migrated to Four Lords of the Warring States, Chu (state), and Shanghai to continue his POV pushing. He may be the same person that was vandalizing Han Chinese in November last year, as some of his IPs are from Zhenjiang, though he seems to be using proxies from a variety of locations. As for the claim that Shanghai is ranked #1 in education, it's already covered in detail in the PISA paragraph, with all the nuances. -Zanhe (talk) 05:35, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi and thanks for the heads up. I saw the Lord Chunshen POV pushing and was going to leave it until the IP settled down - they were making multiple sequential edits and in such cases I usually wait a day or so then go back and clear up. Sorry, I should have checked re the education thing. Please feel free to zap it and put Lord Chunshen back where he belongs. I will take a look at Four Lords of the Warring States. Best.  Philg88 ♦talk 05:45, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I've copyedited Four Lords of the Warring States and AFAIK there is no undue weight given to Lord Chunshen. Please check and amend as you see fit. Philg88 ♦talk 07:05, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * The main issue on Four Lords of the Warring States is not undue weight (although undue weight for Chunshen is an issue on Shanghai), but that the IP insists on adding the falsehood that the lords were the heads of their states, while they were merely noblemen in the service of their kings who held real power. In fact, Mark Edward Lewis in the Cambridge History of Ancient China specifically emphasizes that the power of the lords was quite limited. I took out a lot of garbage with these edits, but was promptly reverted by IP. I don't want to waste time edit warring with an elusive IP troll, so I'll leave it for a day or two. -Zanhe (talk) 07:26, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * No problem, I'll leave it in your capable hands. Cheers, Philg88 ♦talk 07:30, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Pinging in case he hasn't seen this discussion.  Philg88 ♦talk 15:29, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads up! I edited the page after I heard of it right here. Best,Madalibi (talk) 00:21, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Ah, mon ami, tres bien. Merci, Philg88 ♦talk 03:55, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Mais de rien, mon ami! Madalibi (talk) 04:17, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Untitled section
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Great_Bulgaria

how is it that turk is older term than Bulgar when great old bulgaria can not be lemon fresh at 600 AD. in order something to be great and old it needs to be at least 100 years old if not more????????????????????????? he is a descendant from the HUNS

47. And when the inhabitants of Byzantium heard this news, they said: 'This project is concerned with Kubratos, chief of the Huns, the nephew of Organa, who was baptized in the city of Constantinople, and received into the Christian community in his childhood and had grown up in the imperial palace.[1]

[1] http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/nikiu2_chronicle.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashina_(clan)

if you run a statistical regression of the tribes here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Togarmah

you'll realize ohguz is mistranslated,mistyped, fading error over the centuries with ungar.

gar means tribe. Bul-Gar, Hun-Gar, Ma- Gar, Aldi-Gar : signing message for 99.33.211.25 on 28 April 2014


 * I have no idea what you are talking about. If this is about my revert to your content removal at Xiongnu, please see my comment on your talk page. Philg88 ♦talk 09:38, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

I do apologize,it was by mistake. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.33.211.25 (talk) 09:41, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Samuel Bowen
Hello! Your submission of Samuel Bowen at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 21:50, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Another article
Hello Philg, can you copyedit here. Thank you :)   J i m Carter  ( talk ) 14:57, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅ Please see my edit summary - this draft is currently unsuitable as a Wikipedia BLP article. Philg88 ♦talk 05:12, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I know per NPOV but I have reliable sources which might help. Thank you.   J i m Carter  ( talk ) 05:19, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Take a look, I have added strong enough references. Although they are bare links but they will support the statement. Please take a look and verify it. Thanks.   J i m Carter  ( talk ) 11:49, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * The references look OK at first glance, I haven't checked each one but they appear to be reliable. Assuming you have correctly cited their contents, there should be no issues - one example I would point out is that a claim that Mandal "repeatedly" did something is not supported by a source saying he did it twice - that is not "repeatedly". Say something like "On two occasions".  Philg88 ♦talk 12:21, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks Philg, I will fix it. So? Can I move it to mainspace?  J i m Carter  ( talk ) 12:29, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * You need to fix up the bare urls (use Cite web) and check that each citation supports the relevant article text. Then it should be fine. Clarification added the "it" means the article referencing, nothing more. Philg88 ♦talk 12:35, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Many thanks :) BTW can't I use Cite news?   J i m Carter  ( talk ) 12:40, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Sure - where it's relevant. Philg88 ♦talk 12:43, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * O.o  It was a misunderstanding. Sorry.   J i m Carter  ( talk ) 07:35, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * No problem. Rather than requesting deletion of the draft, why don't you find some positive or neutral things to say about Anubrata Mandal? He must have done something to get elected to the Trinamool Congress in the first place. Philg88 ♦talk 07:47, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes he have done... He have killed 3 people to get elected for Trinamool. His life stands on negative things I can't find anything. What else I can find is more negative. Please suggest me what should I do now.    J i m Carter  ( talk ) 07:55, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Well, apart from the unprovable fact that his mother no doubt loves him, you could try a couple of these:
 * Mamata defends murder-accused leader Anubrata Mandal
 * "Mamata's public backing of Mandal is evidently an attempt energize the party organization in the run up to Lok Sabha election. By doing this, Mamata has taken the same path as CPM's West Midnapore secretary Dipak Sarkar, who had defended controversial leaders like Tapan Ghosh and Sukur Ali."


 * Partha attacks Buddhadeb
 * "The Trinamul Congress secretary general today hit back at former West Bengal chief minister, Mr Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee, for his remark that had he been the chief minister, Trinamul Congress leader Anubrata Mandal had been in jail, a long time ago."

Now, I am not saying that you should include these quotes in full in your draft or that they will make it suitable for the main article space, but they will give you a springboard from which to provide balance.

Some more general advice for your real life future career - stay out of Indian politics - it appears to be a distinctly nasty business. Philg88 ♦talk 08:21, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Very true....Although I'm not yet a voter but I try to maintain huge distances from Indian politics ( is an expert in this topic) In this case also if I move this article to mainspace  without changing anything i.e. Negative article. Then I'm sure if any Trinamool supporter notice this article,  they will either try to delete negative statements or will try to attack me. (Recently a local journalist of Anandabazar patrika was attacked for not maintaining neutrality in his article about Trinamool Congress.) Anyway, I have got some informations about his early life. I will use it and thank you for this helpful links and precious advice. I will try to balance this article. Thank you.    J i m Carter  ( talk ) 10:00, 28 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Ha! If you want my advice, stay out of Indian politics on Wikipedia as well as in real life. I've had death threats and all sorts just for fixing problems in that subject area, and I'm not even Indian or living in India. If you live there then you've potentially got big problems with lawsuits etc. Certainly, keep yourself in the pre-Independence period. - Sitush (talk) 10:10, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I shall maintain my impartiality whilst continuing to indulge my passion for Indian cuisine (tested first for poison, naturally). Philg88 ♦talk 10:15, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you Sitush for your kind advice.

@Philg, I know am disturbing you. I'm working on another project here which will need copyediting. It will be much bigger than Early Nationalists so I thought I should let you know so that you can copyedit by taking your own time. No hurry. 20 words/day is fine. Thank you.  J i m Carter  ( talk ) 14:27, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I think that it's a bit early to copyedit what is barely a draft stub. Let me know when the article is approaching completion and I'll give it the once over. Start a new section when you do so - section headings don't have a monthly usage limit. Best, Philg88 ♦talk 05:40, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay, I will let you know. Thanks.  J i m Carter  ( talk ) 06:14, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Added this section to balance the article. Please copyedit if you have time and let me know if I can move it. Thank you.   J i m Carter  ( talk ) 10:51, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
 * No, it isn't ready for the main space, there are a couple of things that need sorting out. I see you've moved it anyway. Why do you ask for advice then not bother to wait for a reply? Philg88 ♦talk 08:34, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Please don't mind Philg, I thought you are busy. And today we are having elections here and I thought if I move it then some other users might also help it expand. Please don't mind...Please give your advice and what are the things that need sorting out? please don't mind Philg, I Assumed good faith while moving that draft. Thank you.  J i m Carter  ( talk ) 09:58, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Hey, I don't "mind" you moving the article so don't worry about that, I just wish that sometimes you would slow down a bit. I know you are a keen editor, but as I've said before, Wikipedia is a marathon, not a sprint. The important thing is to maintain the integrity of the project by ensuring that topic coverage is well-written and passes certain criteria - particularly in the case of BLPs (and in this specific example to further bear in mind Sitush's comments above). has done a fine job in addressing my concerns, the only remaining thing I don't like is the quote box - it looks odd and is a bit WP:UNDUE right at the top of the article. That said, it's certainly not a showstopper. Best,  Philg88 ♦talk 04:56, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Hmm. I understand, I will slow down, thank you for your kind advice. BTW should I move the quote box to the bottom? Or should I remove it?   J i m Carter  ( talk ) 06:14, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. As for the quote, I would dump the box and work it into the first paragraph along the lines of [When and where he said it], Mandal stated "...." [reference]. I hope that helps. Philg88 ♦talk 06:23, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Can you do this on my behalf? Am going out of town for some hours. Thanks   J i m Carter  ( talk ) 06:38, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅ Philg88 ♦talk 07:19, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks :)   J i m Carter  ( talk ) 11:17, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Samuel Bowen
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:31, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

More copyediting.
Hope I do this the right way now, but you said to leave a message here. I´ve gone over my draft several times now and I think it is time for you to take another look if/when you feel up to it. I´ve written some notes on the talk page. - W.carter (talk) 22:33, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅ Philg88 ♦talk 14:37, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

NatGeo map
In case you haven't figured it out, I want the image for the Motor Torpedo Boat PT-109 article. If you want to make the map, and you'll handle uploading it to Wikimedia, I'll add it to the article. If you like, credit yourself in the image, similar to NatGeo's copyright statement in their image. I'd like a map with the following changes:

1. Larger size, say 640px wide.

2. No globe inset.

3. No shaded area labeled "Approximate search area".

4. All "PT 109" changed to "PT-109".

5. "PT-109 wreck drifts south" changed to "PT-109 bow section drifts south".

6. No emphasis for "PT-109 wreck found" (not in a box, not a larger typeface).

Thanks! Mandruss (talk) 19:07, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Mandruss and thanks for the message. I'll take care of the map for you and let you know when it's uploaded. I don't put credits in my maps/images - they are freely licensed with attribution to the Wikimedia Foundation, who make all this possible. Let me comment on your points individually:
 * 1. No problem, the image will be in SVG format so it will scale to whatever size is required without loss of definition.
 * 2. By convention, Wikipedia event location maps generally contain something that helps readers get an idea of where in the world the event happened, so I'm going to use an inset based on an existing map.
 * 3. Why don't you want the search area shown? It's no big deal if it isn't, I'm just curious why you don't want it.
 * 4-5-6 Text will be taken care of.
 * Please give me a couple of days to do this. Philg88 ♦talk 19:37, 2 May 2014 (UTC)


 * NatGeo created their map in conjunction with their 2002 search expedition led by Robert Ballard. So their emphasis and purpose is different from mine, which is to illustrate only the 1943 events. The article cites the NatGeo image, so readers who want to understand the search operation can click on the link to their image. In fact, on second thought, I'd like to omit "PT 109 wreck found" and simply extend that southward arrow a little more.
 * Re "it will scale to whatever size is required," you're slightly over my head since I've never added an image to an article. I'll assume that what you create will allow a thumbnail which can be clicked on to display a version at around 640px.
 * Take all the time you need for awesome results. Mandruss (talk) 19:54, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

 PT-109 Collision Solomon Islands 1943 EN.svg  There you go. Note that the map is not identical to the Natgeo one because it is based on accurate orthographic map data (OpenStreetMap) for both the islands and the point of collision. Let me know if you want anything changed/added. Best, Philg88 ♦talk 05:21, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Nice work, and fast too. There's a problem with the distance of the swim. All of the literature states this distance as 3.5 miles, but it's not quite 3 kilometers on your map. Since there's such a high degree of consensus on this distance, and since the challenge of this swim is such a big part of the story, I think it's important to be close to 3.5 mi. (I've never seen that stated as nautical miles, so I'm assuming statute).

NatGeo's map looks pretty close to 3.5 mi on the swim distance. I think the difference is because (1) they show the collision a little closer to Kolombangara, and (2) from the collision to the start of the swim, they show the drift direction as perhaps 175 degrees, where yours is more like 190. If their map is inaccurate as to the relative positions of the islands, that might also be a factor.

Don't take the article's collision coordinates too literally. They are merely my best guess from eyeballing NatGeo's map, rounded to the nearest minutes of lat and long. That rounding may have shifted the location a little to the west, I don't recall. I have found no other source for the collision coordinates. In fact, before I changed it, the article stated that the collision happened "near x", where x are the coordinates of Plum Pudding Island!

In hindsight, I should have said all this before you started, and I apologize for not doing so. Thanks for your efforts! Mandruss (talk) 06:31, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

If it's the only way to get a swim of 3.5 miles, I have no problem with widening the channel; i.e., moving Kolombangara to the east as necessary. I understand that that would be inaccurate, but I don't think the map would last very long with a too-short swim (there are too many protectors of the JFK legend out there). And remember, Wikipedia isn't about truth, it's about citation, and there are plenty of reliable sources for 3.5 miles.

Obviously moving Kolombangara would necessitate removal of your lat and long lines. Mandruss (talk) 07:21, 4 May 2014 (UTC)


 * All is resolved, the scale was wrong (I won't go in to the reasons why, but OSM data behaves oddly sometimes). I recalibrated the scale based on 1 minute latitude = ~ 1.15 miles and moved the collision site and arrows slightly so that the swim is now around 3.5 miles. BTW I found this source while looking in vain for the collision coordinates.  Cheers,  Philg88 ♦talk 07:51, 4 May 2014 (UTC)


 * LOL. You didn't know what you were getting into when you volunteered to help me. I should have warned you that I'm unbearably picky. Women can't stand to be around me very long.


 * You have the bow section passing within maybe 1.2 miles of Plum Pudding. It was about 2pm when they started swimming. They were intimately familiar with the neighborhood, and no doubt they could see the direction they were drifting. Viewing this map, one might ask why they would abandon the bow section so soon, if they could see that it would carry them much closer to their target island. They could spare themselves about 2.3 miles of swimming by just hanging on for awhile (assuming it stayed afloat long enough, which it did).


 * You also have the bow section drifting a little more than a mile in the ~11.5 hours between the collision and the start of the swim. NatGeo shows that as a little over 2 miles, and even that stretches the imagination.


 * I hate to be a pain, but I can't add a map that doesn't make sense to me. Isn't there a way to better match NatGeo's map, orthographic inaccuracies and all, and just omit the information about the 2002 search? Mandruss (talk) 09:01, 4 May 2014 (UTC)


 * No problem, have a look at the latest version. Philg88 ♦talk 09:44, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Nice. I'll buy it with two more little changes. Change Collide to collide for consistency, and change the default res to 640x454. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mandruss (talk • contribs) 10:13, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅ Philg88 ♦talk 11:59, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

✅ I have added the map to the article. Thanks again!! Mandruss (talk) 20:03, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Illustrated Treatise on the Maritime Kingdoms
The DYK project (nominate) 10:22, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Phil, Did You Know ... that Illustrated Treatise on the Maritime Kingdoms was one of the most viewed DYK of April 2014?
 * I've added it to WP:DYKSTATS. -Zanhe (talk) 21:57, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks . I didn't know ... that passed the 5K barrier and it was good of you to add it to the stats. Still behind March's Destruction of opium at Humen - that got 6,445. Oh well, onwards and upwards ... Philg88 ♦talk 03:57, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Please type your message title here
I made a recent change to the SCNU wiki page to add a Cantonese pronunciation. Could you tell me what I did wrong? Thanks. Rob — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.246.137.192 (talk) 18:31, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi and thanks for the message. The text you added at South China Normal University—"Cantonese pingyam: Wàhnàahm sīfaahn daaihhohk"—doesn't follow any Chinese Romanization scheme that I am aware of and looks like gibberish. That's why I reverted it.  Philg88 ♦talk 21:02, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Beach chair

 * Thanks! Let me know if I can be of assistance in the future. Philg88 ♦talk 16:28, 4 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Could I just ask you to take one last look at the draft. A miracle occurred regarding the references. :) - W.carter (talk) 22:16, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅ Philg88 ♦talk 13:08, 5 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Time for some pictures. I've left some links on the talk page. I looked at the Fair Use and it really needs an expert. But by now I can follow and watch from the sidelines. And maybe learn something. - W.carter (talk) 21:23, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅ - W.carter (talk) 10:12, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

FYI
Don't template the regulars. It is extremely irritating.—indopug (talk) 09:14, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry if you're upset by my pointing out your lack of edit summaries, which are considered Wikipedia good practice. Your one man crusade to remove every link to Macaulayism in Wikipedia without edit summaries explaining why is not something one would expect from a "regular". What have you got against Macaulay?  Philg88 ♦talk 09:25, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm not upset that you pointed that out; I'm annoyed that you twice used gigantic templates to do it. I forgot to add edit summaries the first few times, but remembered later on.
 * I have no problem with Macaulay. The problem is with that Macaulayism article, which has barely has any reliable sources, especially troubling because it makes the outrageous claim that Macaulay executed a "conscious policy of liquidating indigenous culture" in the first sentence itself. And I'm not convinced that anything like Macaulayism as an "ism" really exists.—indopug (talk) 09:35, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Again, I apologise for my use of the template, but after nine edits removing the same content with no edit summary, I wanted to do something that would attract your attention. I posted two notices because you immediately reverted the first one, which indicated a lack of interest in engaging on the issue.


 * I hope we can now put that behind us and move forward on resolving the underlying question, which is whether "Macaulayism" is an invented phenomenon. I will do some digging and get back to you with what I find. Hopefully, we can then reach a consensus on how to handle it. Best, Philg88 ♦talk 17:20, 9 May 2014 (UTC)