User talk:Picapica/archive0810

Disambig
Hi. Just a pointer, to WP:PIPING, for the manual of style regarding piping in disambig pages, re: List. Thanks :) -- Quiddity (talk) 19:02, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that, Q. -- Picapica (talk) 18:51, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Tramway de Bordeaux
Hi, I saw you edited here in 2006, translating from the French. Since then the French article has expanded a lot and I've been translating some of it and some of the stations and lines. You don't have your babel up but my French is mediocre and if you're interested in proofreading any of it that might sound awkward. gren グレン 10:15, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi, Gren. I'm not sure what "you don't have your babel up" means! However, as far as the Bordeaux Tramway articles are concerned, I would be prepared to help but am reluctant to get involved
 * 1) because I would prefer the articles to have proper English-language titles: for example, Les Aubiers tram stop (Bordeaux) rather than the current Station Les Aubiers (Tram de Bordeaux); and
 * 2) there is little likelihood of this proposal even being entertained in the rather inflexible-agressive atmosphere that I've learned prevails in French rail-related-article circles in the English-language Wp.
 * I feel I can therefore far more usefully spend my time on other areas of the Wp. -- Picapica (talk) 14:35, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Llumon
Thanks. My source for the meaning of llumon was Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru, which also records the secondary meaning "ashes, embers" (hence Watson's idea of "beacon" perhaps?). There is a third possible meaning of "bat", or at least some sort of nocturnal creature (only one instance, I think). Enaidmawr (talk) 16:20, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Eurovision Invitation!

 * Thanks for the invite. I am in the middle of moving home + switching computers at the moment, but will certainly take a look at the project (with a view to joining) as soon as things settle down. -- Picapica (talk) 17:37, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. We can always use more help, hope to see you editing soon! Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 18:31, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter - October 2008
This Newsletter was delivered by Grk1011 (talk). If you are no longer interested in WikiProject Eurovision then please remove your name from this list.

Don't worry, I didn't forget about you joining, you will be on the next newsletter for people who joined in October. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 15:10, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Songs should always be in quotes, albums in italics. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 19:36, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, Stephen: is this perchance a reference to Template:Eurovision winning songs? If so, as I understand it, song (title)s should always be in quotes in the body of the articles – but not as an indication of the titles of articles. Templates are not themselves articles but a key to article titles – and no article titles in Wp are embraced by quotes AFAIK. -- Picapica (talk) 20:03, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yea that template, the quotes should always be there when referring to a song. Let me explain better: the actual title of the page should not be in quotes, but everything else should be. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 20:04, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * "Yea" -- that's very old-fashioned of you, Stephen!


 * If your ultra-ist interpretation is to prevail, however, then I am afraid I am going to have to reply with a "Nay", exercise my right to undo your undoing just once more from within the project, and then resign from it.


 * It's quite clear to me that not only is this singles/albums rule you invoke supremely daft in the context of the ESC (where albums do not even enter into the question) but its application has nefarious consequences in producing displays which are not only ugly in themselves but "blow" the boxes they appear in. Cf. what happened to Template:The Beatles singles on 23.05.08 when an ultra-ist got his hands on it – just what you want to do here, alas.


 * I have to admit that I was begining, anyway, to regret my earlier advocacy of adherence to the Wikiproject Songs#Style "rules" in this respect – especially if such adherence is to turn into slavish kowtowing – since double-quotation-mark encapsulation turns out to be visually ugly in practice, particularly when italicization serves well for the citation of all other artistic works in the English-language Wikipedia.


 * So it's looking like it's going to have to be "Hello and goodbye". Just as well that there's such a myriad of other things needing doing in the Wikipedia... --Picapica (talk) 20:56, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I was just informing you of the convention, not proposing some "ultra-ist" idea of mine. Consensus within the singles project, which all of the songs fall into, is to use the quotes. I'm not sure if i really get what you are saying. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 21:10, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * What I am saying is that if being a member of the Eurovision project means that I am bound by a set of discographic rules devised for a "singles project" to which I do not belong then I must leave the Eurovision project. For me the Eurovision project is primarily about a television programme and the live performance of songs thereat, not the recording industry and its products. It is not true, in any case, to say that any recorded singles project can lay claim to all the songs ever sung at the contest since not all of the entries were ever issued as "singles".
 * I do not claim that you invented the step (in my opinion) too far of wanting to encapsulate within double quotation marks every song title even, absurdly, within information frames headed with the word "songs" (lest someone mistake them for breeds of hunting dog or a list of Austro-Hungarian foreign ministers perhaps?), only that I disagree with your support for extending that project's policy to this one in this regard. It is, in any case, debatable that, even if I were a member of the WikiProject Songs (if that is what you mean by your "singles project"), my interpretation of
 * Song article titles should be named after the song, without quotation marks 
 * is less correct than yours, since the references in the templates are, as I have already said, to song article titles, not to songs themselves.
 * How long before the record-industry ultras at WikiProject Songs take over Als Luise die Briefe ihres ungetreuen Liebhabers verbrannte? (Album or single?) -- Picapica (talk) 03:35, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I really don't know what to say. Many project's overlap on wikipedia. WP Greece looks over Greece's Eurovision articles for example. A Wikiproject is a group of editors with a common goal. Ours is to make, improve, maintain, and make consistent all articles having to do with Eurovision. Wikiproject singles tries to make consistent all articles about songs and singles. Songs in quotes is not just a thing that the singles project decided and is pushing on everyone, it is a convention. Would you argue that the names of books should not be in italics? Or why underline a title in a research paper you are writing? Its the same thing. I urge you to stay within the project there is a lot which you could do. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 04:01, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Would you argue that the names of books should not be in italics? Not at all. I am arguing for sensible interpretation of the advisory nature of Manual of Style (titles), which begins: This guideline is... and goes on to say Editors should follow it [this guideline], except where common sense and the occasional exception will improve an article.
 * Policies and guidelines says: Policies are considered a standard that all editors should follow, whereas guidelines are more advisory in nature. Both need to be approached with common sense: adhere to the spirit rather than the letter of the rules. [My emphases]
 * This format is an unlovely monstrosity in my view when compared with this
 * and I do not wish to be associated with a project which interprets guidelines so rigidly as not only to fly in the face of common sense but to produce ugly and difficult-to-read pages. -- Picapica (talk) 10:48, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not the project's interpretation, it is a user's. A project is nothing but a way to coordinate editing within a certain topic. Your free to do things however you like, but you are not in the majority on wikipedia and chances are that someone will revert your quotes removal. They don't have to be in a project. You can still fix all of the Eurovision capitalizations without being in the project. Its just a place to share your ideas and meet other users interested in Eurovision, not some ultraist movement. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 15:11, 5 October 2008 (UTC)