User talk:Pimpampam

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David Dawson
Hi Pimpampam,

Welcome to Wikipedia. I noticed your recent edits in the article David Dawson (choreographer). There are two issues that I have corrected. The first is that you removed cited material and replaced it with differing, uncited material. On Wikipedia, cited material must be given preference over uncited material. I have reverted this problem. Second, you have a tendency to add adjectives such as "the legendary" or "the critically acclaimed" to the text. This makes the article sound like an advertisement instead of an encyclopeadia entry. I have re-reverted these edits. Please see Neutral point of view if you have questions about this.

If you like to discuss the content of the article, try the talk page at Talk:David Dawson (choreographer). If you would like to discuss anything at all, please contact me on my talk page at User talk:Dkreisst. Thank you for your work, and I look forward to seeing more of you edits soon. Dkreisst (talk) 22:01, 17 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi Dkreisst,


 * I cannot figure out how to contact you, but hope you would be able to see my message. Not every opinion in media is true and correct, and for this reason your citation about the choreographic style was corrected and I will do it again. Unfortunately, there is no clear definitions of the styles of contemporary ballet choreographers, unless it is done by professionals and people who work in the business. Being one of them and having known both Forsythe and Dawson, I can assure you, that their choreographic language is very different. The information I used was taken from David Dawson's official website, so if necessary, fee free to citate it, but I would keep removing comparison with Forsythe, because it is untrue and any ballet professional would know that.


 * The Mariinsky Theatre and its ballet company are certainly legendary. This is not my personal opinion. This institution has been recognized as such for many years and by professionals worldwide. Its history and tradition has made it such, and there is no need o advertise it, because any connoisseur of music, opera and ballet knows this theatre and its legacy, but in the context of the sentence about Mr Dawson it was a historically important event - that was the sole reason for using that word.


 * And it is no less important to state the critical acclaim of certain productions, for they play key role on careers of artists and certain cultural institutions. This is actually a usual procedure and language used in the theatre world.


 * Regarding citations: there are many other publications known about Mr Dawson and his work, so if you are trying to be objective, it would be good for you to first get acquainted with them and get a more professional insight into this art form before so easily assigning influences and styles. As I said, not every journalist knows the matter in all depth to be quoted in encyclopeadia.


 * Thank you for your attention.


 * P.S. It was not clear for me why you removed links to the companies Mr Dawson worked with and Awards he received - I thought confirmations through external links were required?
 * And please can you do the spell check next time you work - I corrected last time and now spelling and some grammatical issues - these are certainly not acceptable on the pages of an encyclopedia.


 * Hi Pimpampam, this space is fine for getting back to me. Thank you so much for correcting my spelling.  Here are some things you might want to read about Wikipedia:


 * You stated that you were using material from David Dawson's official website. Wikipedia gives preference to secondary sources over primary sources, as primary sources are much more likely to be biased.  You can read more about that here:
 * No original research.


 * Here is a link you might find useful regarding some of the questions you have about external links and also in citing the many publications about David Dawson that you note exist:
 * Referencing for beginners


 * You can sign your name after your talk page entrys by typing four tildes, like so: ~


 * You state that the reason for using the word legendary is soley due to the context of its importance to David Dawson. This pretty much proves my point as to why the adjective makes the article sound as if it were an advertisement.


 * Welcome again to Wikipedia. Be bold!  I'll watch this page in case you have any further questions.Dkreisst (talk) 07:17, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

resolution?
Hi Pimpampam,

You've had a week to look over the information I've posted on you page. What do you think? My understanding of the need for cited work is unchanged. I'll give you one more week to look over the instruction pages and to either revert your edits (let me know if you need help reverting), or to post here with further concerns. Dkreisst (talk) 21:34, 4 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi Pimpampam, I've reverted the removal of the cited material on the article David Dawson (choreographer). I hope that you can help better the quality of the article, and the rest of wikipedia, by adding more cited content to better represent Dawson's choreography.  Please let me know if you have any questions. Dkreisst (talk) 07:32, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi Dkreisst

I am sorry, but I am very busy at the moment, which delayed my answer. I think I found a good solution for the part in 'Choreographic style': I left only one part of that quote that was appropriate. Please, let's leave it so as I feel we both need to be respectful to the artist, especially since this entry was not commissioned by him.

Regarding the two places where you wrote that citation was needed. Dance & Dancers magazine does not exist anymore, so there is no online version to link it to. If you want, you can refer to Mr Dawson's website: http://www.dawsonarts.net/Acknowledgement/686 I am sure you would agree that no artist and professional of such calibre would provide false information about the honours on his own website.

The second part referring to his two great works is based on numerous reviews of critics and ballet professionals. Again, those are not very much available as the online material, but mostly printed issues of magazines and newspapers and not even in english, as the premiere of one was in Amsterdam and the other one was in Antwerp, Belgium. I know because I have been a devoteed fan of Mr Dawson for many years and always try to attend premieres of his new creations wherever they are.

I will try to find something online, but then I doubt it would be appropriate to link to just one or two. Hope you can wait with this one for a couple of week because, as I said, I am extremely busy at the moment.

Mr Dawson works all over the world and the press reviews are often in the languages other than english. I am not capable of translating them well enough to quote, and do not have resources for that. Posting links to reviews in the languages people would not be about to understand seems pointless, don't you think? I know there are some clippings on his website in the 'work' part where one gets information about each of his works. Feel free to roam and add any of them to the website, if you feel they might help.

Mr Dawson is an amazing artist with incredible talent and the sole reason I created his page on Wikipedia is to let more people learn about him. I personally do not think it is necessary to have zillion of links. He is a very modest and humble man and lets his work speak for itself.

Re the help links to read to learn to do more on Wikipedia: frankly speaking the way they are written is so confusing that it is difficult to often even understand what it mentioned. I asked native english speakers too, but none of them could understand it well enough to explain to me or help me. When I tried to upload a photo, which I wanted to delete afterwards, it was another nightmare. And I could not figure out how to reply to you in the manner you write to me, hence writing it here. I must say the way those help pages are setup does not really help unless you some advanced user.

I asked my friends to make a russian translation and posted the russian page. Next month I will try to edit the german one as it lacks lots of facts and information. Already found someone to do it. I want to promote people with talent, vision and wonderful work. This is important. So for me it is not just an entry for the sake of having something, this is why I do my research and make sure all facts are correct and true.

Let me know what you think.

P.S. How do I remove that cloud saying inappropriate links should be removed? There are no inappropriate links in this text. Can you help please?


 * Hi Pimpampam,
 * I appreciate your drive to work on articles of people and topics that interest you. However, as editors, we must remember that the information must be unbiased and not just an advertisement for the great things that a person has done.  If a reader wanted to to know what David Dawson thought of David Dawson's work, she would go to David Dawson's website, not wikipedia.  This is why wikipedia has a policy of avoiding citing primary sources.  Dawson's website is a primary source.  It should be avoided precisely because it is written and controlled by Dawson or his employees.


 * Let me see if I can address some of the problems you note. First, sources on wikipedia do not need to be online sources.  This should clear up the problem you refer to with Dance & Dancers magazine.  Second, sources do not need to be in English.  The article needs to be written in English, but the material can be from any language, so please cite from any reliable source you can find.


 * The cloud that you refer to states that the "article appears to be written like an advertisement" and that it can be improved by "rewriting promotional content from a neutral point of view and removing any inappropriate external links." This article does read like an advertisement and needs significant work.  You can help this by rewriting it, imagining that a sceptic is reading over your shoulder and arguing every point.


 * Finally, I've made a sandbox for you to practice editing. This should help figure out how to create the citations you find and wish to use.  You can find it here: User:Pimpampam/sandbox.  I recommend that you look around wikipedia a bit.  You seem to only focus on Dawson's article, you may find that there are other topics to which you wish to contribute as well. Dkreisst (talk) 04:01, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Forsythe
Hi Pimpampam,

I've reverted your edit in the article on David Dawson regarding his choreographic influences as there are now two credible sources showing the same information. You seemed to have an issue with this before, so I though I'd let you know. Please bring forward any sources that are contrary to this information before reverting this edit. Thank you and good luck. Dkreisst (talk) 02:23, 4 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi Dkreisst


 * Here is a confirmation from the choreographer himself against him being associated with William Forsythe in style: http://theatreexplorer.blogspot.nl/2013/06/david-dawson-overture-is-about_12.html?spref=tw


 * I am doing research in the meantime, and will forward you other links and reviews to post on the page and will try to edit the biography in the next weeks so that you could remove that advertisement sign.


 * Thank you and all best. P


 * Very nice. I've added the interview and its significance to the article.  What do you think?  Dkreisst (talk) 00:55, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, Dkreisst. I just got back last night. Attended Mr Dawson's world premiere of his new Overture he is talking in this interview about. Unbelievable work. Standing ovations. Need time to get back to my things this week, but will try to send you more information during the following week. Some fresh reviews should be also out by then.